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[ZephyrFate]

Notice how he has yet to answer my question on if he knows any black people are if they are many black people where he lives. lol

I don't live in an area with a lot of black people but I went to high school in inner-city Portland and I know a lot of black people, yeah. My first boyfriend was black, on top of that.

Don't act like I have no idea what black people are. You're just silly as fuck.

Also, as Devolution just pointed out, Coretta Scott King disagrees with you entirely.

 

[PhoenixDark]

I'm pretty sure people are getting fired from their jobs for being gay, being kicked out of bed and breakfasts' for being gay, can't get married, can't give blood, can't adopt, get beaten and killed and raped, are seen as less than human...

wait, no, this is totally different from the things black people went through.


Edit: I love the idea that comparing civil rights movements between blacks and gays somehow 'depreciates' blacks. What kind of fucked up reasoning is that? Must we make things superior and inferior, put 'levels of discrimination' to this shit? What the hell?

Some gay people are being fired for being gay, but how can you compare limits in employment opportunities for black people 50 years ago to gay people today? A gay person can get a job and keep it without his sexuality coming up, and if it is noticed there is no guarantee he will be fired. A black person was not able to hide his blackness in 1961, and upon walking in the door was discriminated against. I'm NOT suggesting gay people should hide their sexuality, I'm pointing out sexuality is not a character identifier in the same way race is; while one's sexuality is often an internal matter that doesn't come up, if you're black everyone sees it right away.

I've known unmarried couples who got kicked out of bed and breakfasts. Many are run by religious nuts who force their values on their customers.

In terms of murder, I think there's a difference between gay hate crimes today and the fully sanctioned lynchings that went on down south, where a black person had NO rights. That is not to dismiss violence against gay people in any way, I'm just pointing out at least today the perpetrator gets hit with an assault, murder, battery, etc whatever charge.

 

[Londa]

I wouldn't compare the two if people didn't keep shitting on gay rights just because the fight for black rights was 'better' or 'more important' or whatever qualifier people want to add to make the two different.

Minority struggles are minority struggles. There shouldn't be a value judgment placed on them.

The reason I didn't know about the permits thing is that I was NEVER referring to slavery times. I clearly referred to post-slavery and Civil Rights Movement-era time periods, neither of which had 'black permits'.

edit: wow this is becoming a gays vs. blacks thread all over again. Yay.

Wow, you use better as if we are happy or holding something over you head. Like we are winners because our ancestors were slaves. Crazy.

You started it when you said gays are going through what blacks did when Rosa Parks sat in the front of the bus.

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

I wouldn't compare the two if people didn't keep shitting on gay rights just because the fight for black rights was 'better' or 'more important' or whatever qualifier people want to add to make the two different.

Minority struggles are minority struggles. There shouldn't be a value judgment placed on them.

The reason I didn't know about the permits thing is that I was NEVER referring to slavery times. I clearly referred to post-slavery and Civil Rights Movement-era time periods, neither of which had 'black permits'.

Thats what you just fucking did. No one is shitting on gay rights, its just that some people will obviously feel more strongly than the other.

And even after slavery was abolished black people still needed permits in order to go North and whatnot. And a lot of them had to settle for the South because they were so hard to obtain. You think people in the South just let blacks go after the Emanciation Proclamation was signed and that they gave up their comfortable way life that easily. The south existed because of blacks and people in the south needed their slaves because they sure as hell wouldn't want to do the work.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Yet these things happen, Phoenix. Why should it matter whether it was worse back then or not? They're still happening. And keep happening. That's my entire fucking point. I know history, I know how bad it was for blacks a long time ago and it still is bad in some ways and that will hopefully change.

But to say that the black community and the gay community are not even similar in any way is to just be ridiculous. Minority struggles... are minority struggles. Placing value on them is insipid and goes nowhere.

HEAVEN FUCKING FORBID I point out goddamn similiarities. You know what, fuck it. Gay people aren't going through anything close to what black people did and never will, so fuck it all. God I hate these arguments. No wonder the gay community and black community are always at odds.

 

[Londa]

I don't live in an area with a lot of black people but I went to high school in inner-city Portland and I know a lot of black people, yeah. My first boyfriend was black, on top of that.

Don't act like I have no idea what black people are. You're just silly as fuck.

Also, as Devolution just pointed out, Coretta Scott King disagrees with you entirely.

You toooooooooold me. XD

get outta here. Coretta Scott King said that gays have to go through the same stuff as blacks 60 or so years ago? XD

God I hate these arguments. No wonder the gay community and black community are always at odds.

Lots of blacks are Christan. Just sayin.

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

I don't live in an area with a lot of black people but I went to high school in inner-city Portland and I know a lot of black people, yeah. My first boyfriend was black, on top of that.

Don't act like I have no idea what black people are. You're just silly as fuck.

Also, as Devolution just pointed out, Coretta Scott King disagrees with you entirely.

So Coretta Scott King is the speaker for all black people? If you think that then what about the acceptance of the apology that the gay rights activist acknowledged?

And nowhere did she say that their struggles are equal, she just said that support should be given and I have no problem with that.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Originally Posted by Coretta Scott King:

I still hear people say that I should not be talking about the rights of lesbian and gay people and I should stick to the issue of racial justice... But I hasten to remind them that Martin Luther King, Jr., said, 'Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere' ... I appeal to everyone who believes in Martin Luther King, Jr.'s dream to make room at the table of brotherhood and sisterhood for lesbian and gay people.

Originally Posted by Coretta Scott King:

Gays and lesbians stood up for civil rights in Montgomery, Selma, in Albany, Georgia, and St. Augustine, Florida, and many other campaigns of the Civil Rights Movement. Many of these courageous men and women were fighting for my freedom at a time when they could find few voices for their own, and I salute their contributions.

Originally Posted by Coretta Scott King:

Homophobia is like racism and anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry in that it seeks to dehumanize a large group of people, to deny their humanity, their dignity and personhood. This sets the stage for further repression and violence that spread all too easily to victimize the next minority group.

I'm just gonna leave this here and go enjoy a party.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

Uh oh, toys thrown out of the pram.

I wish people would stop using the term 'gay community'.

 

[travisbickle]

Do gays also have to carry around a permit to walk around freely in the south states? Are they not allowed to own land? Are they raped and murdered almost everyday? Do they get police dogs sicked on them?

I could go on. XD

Homosexual acts were illegal in some states of America up until 8 years ago!! I don't think it was illegal to be black 50 years ago, never mind post-millenium! In 2003 you could be arrested for living the life of a gay man.

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

Yet these things happen, Phoenix. Why should it matter whether it was worse back then or not? They're still happening. And keep happening. That's my entire fucking point. I know history, I know how bad it was for blacks a long time ago and it still is bad in some ways and that will hopefully change.

But to say that the black community and the gay community are not even similar in any way is to just be ridiculous. Minority struggles... are minority struggles. Placing value on them is insipid and goes nowhere.

HEAVEN FUCKING FORBID I point out goddamn similiarities. You know what, fuck it. Gay people aren't going through anything close to what black people did and never will, so fuck it all. God I hate these arguments. No wonder the gay community and black community are always at odds.

Are you even reading what I was saying? No one said they are not similar but to say that they are exactly equal are two different things.

And you were the one that started placing value on the two groups.

 

[Londa]

Originally Posted by Coretta Scott King:


Originally Posted by Coretta Scott King:


Originally Posted by Coretta Scott King:


I'm just gonna leave this here and go enjoy a party.

No where does she say, what I asked you to prove. Mrs. King talking about gay rights doesn't mean what you seemly imply.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Yet these things happen, Phoenix. Why should it matter whether it was worse back then or not? They're still happening. And keep happening. That's my entire fucking point. I know history, I know how bad it was for blacks a long time ago and it still is bad in some ways and that will hopefully change.

But to say that the black community and the gay community are not even similar in any way is to just be ridiculous. Minority struggles... are minority struggles. Placing value on them is insipid and goes nowhere.

HEAVEN FUCKING FORBID I point out goddamn similiarities. You know what, fuck it. Gay people aren't going through anything close to what black people did and never will, so fuck it all. God I hate these arguments. No wonder the gay community and black community are always at odds.

I don't think any serious poster is saying the movements can't be compared at all. Personally I don't think comparing them "belittles" the black civil rights movement. My point was simply they were very different climates; 2011 and 1961 are very, very different.

At the end of the day, both groups have faced fierce discrimination, and it's a shame the black community in general is so hostile to the gay community.

 

[BowieZ]

Please don't see Zephyr's exaggeration and thus presume Kobe shouldn't be reprimanded for his unprofessional behavior.

Also, I like how so many people jumped on the anti-PC bandwagon "OMG WHATS SO WRONG WITH PEOPLE SAYING FAGGOT STUPID PC PEOPLE" when in reality they are being PC too.

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

Originally Posted by Coretta Scott King:


Originally Posted by Coretta Scott King:


Originally Posted by Coretta Scott King:


I'm just gonna leave this here and go enjoy a party.

Then I'll just leave this here.

http://www.365gay.com/living/041411-thursday-watercooler/

Bryant didn’t like a ref’s call. Los Angles Laker Kobe Bryant was fined $100,000 for calling a referee “a f***ing faggot” during a televised Tuesday night game. He plans on appealing (his right by the way). National Basketball Association commissioner David Stern was not pleased with the superstar’s outburst. “Kobe and everyone associated with the NBA know that insensitive or derogatory comments are not acceptable and have no place in our game or society,” Stern said in a statement. Last night Bryant and Human Rights Campaign president Joe Solmonese spoke over the phone. Sounds like the All-Star offered some contrition. “I applaud Kobe Bryant for his swift apology,” Solmonese announced in a press release. “We had a very sincere conversation in which he expressed his heartfelt regret for the hurt that his words caused. He told me that it’s never ok to degrade or tease, and that he understands how his words could unfortunately give the wrong impression that this is appropriate conduct.” Good to know someone in camp Bryant knows the phone number of the HGIC (head gay in charge), but maybe now is the time for the NBA to sit and talk with Hudson Taylor?

You know since all gay rights people should listen to their "spokespeople".

 

[Omiee]

some one should change the name of the thread, since kobe is no longer the point of this discussion.

 

[Londa]

ChocolateCupcakes thats not good enough, they want him to go through capital punishment for saying the f word.

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

some one should change the name of the thread, since kobe is no longer the point of this discussion.

Yes lets change it to Zephyr will take anything you say and translate it something you never said.

 

[ChocolateCupcakes]

ChocolateCupcakes thats not good enough, they want him to go through capital punishment for saying the f word.

I guess so. For people who want others to be tolerant they can also be harsh and excessive.

I'm just saying if we should have to judge or way of life based on Coretta Scott King than what about the Human Rights Campaign President who accepted Kobe's apology.

 

[Londa]

Yes lets change it to Zephyr will take anything you say and translate it something you never said.

I guess its hard to read when angry.

 

[spindashing]

This thread is proof that I don't want a sista angry at me. <3

 

[Kinitari]

I'm pretty sure Zephyr is gone now, or at least I hope he is - I don't think that particular discussion was going anywhere productive, and it looks like both sides were getting upset and worked up unnecessarily. I understand his point roughly (that he wishes black people and gay people empathized with each other more because of their similar struggles against discrimination) unfortunately though, some of the language and juxtapositions he used were going to do nothing but incense people who are... sensitive about the history of black discrimination.

 

[SnakeSlashRO]

Homosexual acts were illegal in some states of America up until 8 years ago!! I don't think it was illegal to be black 50 years ago, never mind post-millenium! In 2003 you could be arrested for living the life of a gay man.

I have not posted on GAF in a while, I had to log in to reply to this... What you say is BS. Homosexuals have been around for years. Yeah it might have been illegal but who was running around letting everyone know there secret???

Tell a Black person NOT To be black or HIDE that they are black. You have control over who you sleep with, cant control the skin you are born in and the problems that come with it. ( specially at that time)

I hope I dont offend with my post...

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

Yeah.

This is not relevant to what is currently being discussed. The argument is not that gays are not discriminated against but rather the whitewashing of what other minorities have gone through by some saying that gays have it just as bad as others.

No gay 14yr old has been beating beyond recognition for flirting with someone. Gays are not forced to sit at the back of the bus, they do not have to go into gay only restaurant, use gay only water fountains and other horribly things African Americans have had to deal with over the years. The same goes with, although not mentioned in this thread but in others, that gays have suffered just like Jews have since they have both been discriminated against. Gays have not been rounded up en masse and killed off by the millions and forced to undergo horrific experiments and other terrible things that happened in Nazi Germany during WWII.

The argument was not about whether it was wrong like in the quotes you posted but rather that they have gone through the same things which is kind of a slap in the face compared to suffering others have dealt with.

 

[Gaborn]

Can we PLEASE stop the oppression Olympics? Whether gays and blacks struggles were equal or not (they weren't, though each had their own unique horrors) the fact that both groups suffered and that there are certainly parallels between the two is what matters. Trying to place importance on the quality of suffering is stupid.

 

[Dead Man]

I'm pretty sure Zephyr is gone now, or at least I hope he is - I don't think that particular discussion was going anywhere productive, and it looks like both sides were getting upset and worked up unnecessarily. I understand his point roughly (that he wishes black people and gay people empathized with each other more because of their similar struggles against discrimination) unfortunately though, some of the language and juxtapositions he used were going to do nothing but incense people who are... sensitive about the history of black discrimination.

Yeah. Can we agree to use non black comparisons since apparently they get people too inflamed?

Anyway, it is pretty sad to see so many responses in this thread even questioning why faggot is an offensive word.

And Zaraki_Kenpachi, you may want to look up some stuff, but I'll not get into that debate again.

 

[Devolution]

This is not relevant to what is currently being discussed. The argument is not that gays are not discriminated against but rather the whitewashing of what other minorities have gone through by some saying that gays have it just as bad as others.
No gay 14yr old has been beating beyond recognition for flirting with someone. Gays are not forced to sit at the back of the bus, they do not have to go into gay only restaurant, use gay only water fountains and other horribly things African Americans have had to deal with over the years. The same goes with, although not mentioned in this thread but in others, that gays have suffered just like Jews have since they have both been discriminated against. Gays have not been rounded up en masse and killed off by the millions and forced to undergo horrific experiments and other terrible things that happened in Nazi Germany during WWII.

Go read a history book they were rounded up just like the Jews were.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pink_triangle

 

[ZephyrFate]

This is not relevant to what is currently being discussed. The argument is not that gays are not discriminated against but rather the whitewashing of what other minorities have gone through by some saying that gays have it just as bad as others.
No gay 14yr old has been beating beyond recognition for flirting with someone. Gays are not forced to sit at the back of the bus, they do not have to go into gay only restaurant, use gay only water fountains and other horribly things African Americans have had to deal with over the years. The same goes with, although not mentioned in this thread but in others, that gays have suffered just like Jews have since they have both been discriminated against. Gays have not been rounded up en masse and killed off by the millions and forced to undergo horrific experiments and other terrible things that happened in Nazi Germany during WWII.

The argument was not about whether it was wrong like in the quotes you posted but rather that they have gone through the same things which is kind of a slap in the face compared to suffering others have dealt with.

Teenage gay people are beaten frequently for flirting with the same sex. Do you read newspapers?

As for your second point, gays were definitely targeted and rounded up and killed during the Holocaust. While there is a focus on Jews, gays were killed alongside blacks, handicapped folks, and gypsies.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

This is not relevant to what is currently being discussed. The argument is not that gays are not discriminated against but rather the whitewashing of what other minorities have gone through by some saying that gays have it just as bad as others.

No gay 14yr old has been beating beyond recognition for flirting with someone. Gays are not forced to sit at the back of the bus, they do not have to go into gay only restaurant, use gay only water fountains and other horribly things African Americans have had to deal with over the years. The same goes with, although not mentioned in this thread but in others, that gays have suffered just like Jews have since they have both been discriminated against. Gays have not been rounded up en masse and killed off by the millions and forced to undergo horrific experiments and other terrible things that happened in Nazi Germany during WWII.

The argument was not about whether it was wrong like in the quotes you posted but rather that they have gone through the same things which is kind of a slap in the face compared to suffering others have dealt with.

Isn't that EXACTLY what happened in Nazi Germany? Just pointing that out...

Oh, beaten.

 

[Londa]

It all started when people kept bring up what blacks had to deal with to support their reason to rage.

You know that Kobe is prolly drinking white wine somewhere with two/three chicks?

 

[Zaraki_Kenpachi]

My mistake with the Nazi Germany I forgot about that.

 

[ZephyrFate]

My mistake with the Nazi Germany I forgot about that.

Your first point was wrong too:

http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/11608272/detail.html

http://www.click2houston.com/news/21662619/detail.html

http://perezhilton.com/2011-03-17-teen-beaten-to-death-in-antigay-violence-incident

among a bunch of others, hundreds

 

[Dead Man]

It all started when people kept bring up what blacks had to deal with to support their reason to rage.

You know that Kobe is prolly drinking white wine somewhere with two/three chicks?

Damn, how many times do you need to be told, that is not why it was brought up, it was brought up so people could have an analogy. Do you know how they work?

 

[Khalifa Jayy]

Has anyone else ever been fined for calling someone a faggot?

USAToday investigates

http://content.usatoday.com/communi...s-for-anti-gay-remarks/1?loc=interstitialskip

Spoiler

Nope

 

[Kinitari]

It all started when people kept bring up what blacks had to deal with to support their reason to rage.

It was brought up to help people empathize - and some people feel that by just putting the two slurs (Faggot and Nigger) next to each other, you belittle the struggles of black people. I'll try to be 'fair' and include all minorities in my future endeavours, but the point stands.

 

[spindashing]

Damn, how many times do you need to be told, that is not why it was brought up, it was brought up so people could have an analogy. Do you know how they work?

In hindsight, was making such an analogy even worth it? The current conversation has deterred so far way from the original topic that you may as well rename the thread.

You did not need an analogy to make people realize that "faggot" is a word that should not be used; as I said before, it merely opened up another can of ugly worms when you compare it to another derogatory term for another minority group.

 

[ZephyrFate]

Has anyone else ever been fined for calling someone a faggot?

USAToday investigates

http://content.usatoday.com/communi...s-for-anti-gay-remarks/1?loc=interstitialskip

Spoiler

Nope

The times they are a'changin'. For the better.

 

[PhoenixDark]

Can we PLEASE stop the oppression Olympics? Whether gays and blacks struggles were equal or not (they weren't, though each had their own unique horrors) the fact that both groups suffered and that there are certainly parallels between the two is what matters. Trying to place importance on the quality of suffering is stupid.

Gabron is right.

 

[Londa]

But Kobe getting fined isn't good enough?

 

[Dead Man]

In hindsight, was making such an analogy even worth it? The current conversation has deterred so far way from the original topic that you may as well rename the thread.

You did not need an analogy to make people realize that "faggot" is a word that should not be used; as I said before, it merely opened up another can of ugly worms when you compare it to another derogatory term for another minority group.

Given the number of responses saying it should not be seen as derogatory, yes, a comparison is needed.

 

[Kinitari]

In hindsight, was making such an analogy even worth it? The current conversation has deterred so far way from the original topic that you may as well rename the thread.

You did not need an analogy to make people realize that "faggot" is a word that should not be used; as I said before, it merely opened up another can of ugly worms when you compare it to another derogatory term for another minority group.

No one can look into the future, who could have guessed people would react the way they did? I still think it's a perfect example, and maybe peoples reaction's are indicative of that.

People were consistently saying things like "there is no negative connotation with the word faggot anymore" "or the context of using that insult is important" - rather than saying "no you are wrong" as a response, I personally felt the best way was to challenge it with a word that is very similarly used and has very similar effects on people. More than anything else, the desire to establish a pedestal in which black suffering should be placed has surprised me in this thread. I was expecting solidarity, not that.

But Kobe getting fined isn't good enough?

I guess to some people, no, but what is good enough could probably be argued from hell to high water. I know Gaborn has a strong opinion on what the punishment should be, I don't particularly. More than anything, attitudes that have surfaced in this thread have fascinated me more than the content of the OP.

 

[Dead Man]

No one can look into the future, who could have guessed people would react the way they did? I still think it's a perfect example, and maybe peoples reaction's are indicative of that.

People were consistently saying things like "there is no negative connotation with the word faggot anymore" "or the context of using that insult is important" - rather than saying "no you are wrong" as a response, I personally felt the best way was to challenge it with a word that is very similarly used and has very similar effects on people. More than anything else, the desire to establish a pedestal in which black suffering should be placed has surprised me in this thread. I was expecting solidarity, not that.

Stop making my point better than I do!!

 

[Gaborn]

But Kobe getting fined isn't good enough?

Since he's appealing he obviously didn't get the point. So no, it's not enough.

 

[Londa]

Since he's appealing he obviously didn't get the point. So no, it's not enough.

Didn't Cupcakes post that he apologized?

Last night Bryant and Human Rights Campaign president Joe Solmonese spoke over the phone. Sounds like the All-Star offered some contrition. “I applaud Kobe Bryant for his swift apology,” Solmonese announced in a press release. “We had a very sincere conversation in which he expressed his heartfelt regret for the hurt that his words caused. He told me that it’s never ok to degrade or tease, and that he understands how his words could unfortunately give the wrong impression that this is appropriate conduct.” Good to know someone in camp Bryant knows the phone number of the HGIC (head gay in charge), but maybe now is the time for the NBA to sit and talk with Hudson Taylor?

 

[Kinitari]

Stop making my point better than I do!!

I really wish I was, but it seems like people still don't get what I am trying to say .

 

[ZephyrFate]

Didn't Cupcakes post that he apologized?

Kobe is appealing the fine

 

[Devolution]

Didn't Cupcakes post that he apologized?

We gonna do this again? Might as well call his statement the typical empty apology.

Protip: "I'm sorry you were offended" really isn't an apology.

 

[Gamer98]

Since he's appealing he obviously didn't get the point. So no, it's not enough.

Oh my god. What do you people want? He cant take what he said back its up to everybody else just to fucking get over it. Good lord somebody lock the fuck out of this thread.

 

[Gaborn]

Oh my god. What do you people want? He cant take what he said back its up to everybody else just to fucking get over it. Good lord somebody lock the fuck out of this thread.

He can at LEAST take his tiny fine (less than 1/3 of 1 game check) and walk away rather than a non apology and appealing it.

 

[Dead Man]

I really wish I was, but it seems like people still don't get what I am trying to say .

Oh, you are certainly being more eloquent, more polite, and just better, at making the point than I am. The efficacy of that point in changing views does seem to be low, I'll grant you that.