From all that, I would say the NBA needs to fundamentally overhaul the way the game is run. In every sport I follow, if refs continually make bad decisions or make biased decisions there are consequences. If players or refs disrespect one another there are consequences. Sounds like it is just poorly run.numble said:
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Kobe Bryant slinging homophobic slur during nationally televised NBA game
- Thread starter Aruarian Reflection
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ZephyrFate
Banned
Just because nigger is more offensive than faggot doesn't mean faggot isn't incredibly, horribly offensive and isn't rooted to its homosexual slur basis in almost every way.MIMIC said:
That's simply not good enough.
krypt0nian
Banned
When are the Oppression Olympics medal ceremonies?
Satyamdas said:
LOL, I'm going to arbitrarily assign a number so you can troll me for whatever you think is wrong with my decision (which you would be perfectly within your rights of doing). No thanks.
I don't determine how society views a word/action. It's based on a lot of things.....but if I REALLY try to unearth the reasons as to why "nigger" is more offensive than "faggot", it'll be a perfect opportunity for someone to scream Oppression Olympics (for the billionth time).
It's a rather genius strategy.
OK then.
ZephyrFate
Banned
It still really doesn't change the fact that faggot is a terrible word and is tied to homosexuality in a big way.MIMIC said:
So... continue on, but realize that your point falls short of the mark in the face of that truth.
You can't tell someone how offended to be at a word, I am more offended at being called a nigger than a faggot. A gay person would feel the other way around. Trying to compare the level of offence is absolutely useless.
What is more pertinent, I think, is discussing the level of taboo assigned to each word - something a bit more objective, but even, not very objective (as location and time pay a heavy role in this).
More importantly, the fact that people get offended that these two words are compared or held in the same esteem (fucking offensive slur that should not be used, as a direct insult or as a passing out-of-context insult) is mind boggling. I still don't understand why that bothers people, serious, as long as this thread has gone the only real answer I've gotten as to why that bothers people is that it "undermines what black people have gone through" which makes literally, no sense to me. If someone could clarify WHY this undermines the civil rights movements for blacks, or something, please - tell me.
What is more pertinent, I think, is discussing the level of taboo assigned to each word - something a bit more objective, but even, not very objective (as location and time pay a heavy role in this).
More importantly, the fact that people get offended that these two words are compared or held in the same esteem (fucking offensive slur that should not be used, as a direct insult or as a passing out-of-context insult) is mind boggling. I still don't understand why that bothers people, serious, as long as this thread has gone the only real answer I've gotten as to why that bothers people is that it "undermines what black people have gone through" which makes literally, no sense to me. If someone could clarify WHY this undermines the civil rights movements for blacks, or something, please - tell me.
ZephyrFate
Banned
Either? What difference does it make?MIMIC said:
Treefingers
Member
It did not have that meaning for a lot of people.Dead Man said:
ZephyrFate
Banned
This is as broad and unsupported a statement as this thread has ever had. Prove this.Treefingers said:
Mercury Fred
Banned
No, please indulge us. I'm dying to hear your explanation.MIMIC said:
Treefingers
Member
I can't prove it, I can speak from personal experience that the word faggot was used commonly among people I know/used to know just a few years ago and the connotation was that someone was being annoying. That's it. They didn't hate gay people.ZephyrFate said:
Anyway I'm just gonna sidestep out of this thread.
ZephyrFate
Banned
These connotations ARE tied to its original basis as a homosexual slur. Just because they 'didn't intend it' doesn't mean that the connection effeminate features or homosexual identity suddenly disappear.Treefingers said:
Ask anyone in anytown, USA and I'm sure they'll tell you that faggot refers to homosexual. There's no other why people have such an aversion or reaction to the word. It has not changed, or evolved.
And it doesn't make it okay to say.
Ollie Pooch
In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
I know urbandictionary.com is hardly a reliable source especially in regards to this, but it's interesting that the top entry for 'faggot' is :
Is it an American-only thing? Here in Aus if someone is called a faggot it's still pretty offensive and certainly more alluding to the homosexual angle.
None of this changes the roots of the word and the fact that it shouldn't be used, however.
*orders mug*
Is it an American-only thing? Here in Aus if someone is called a faggot it's still pretty offensive and certainly more alluding to the homosexual angle.
None of this changes the roots of the word and the fact that it shouldn't be used, however.
EricHasNoPull
Banned
Treefingers said:
Hey If this thread reaches 70 pages, rest assure I would be again re-quoting myself, just so you know.
Treefingers
Member
I'm not saying people should go around saying it, my only point is that it can be and has been used by people who do not have anything against the LGBT community - and so Amibguous Cad claiming that anyone that says it secretly hates gay people is wrong.ZephyrFate said:
ZephyrFate
Banned
The point would then be brought up if I used a racial slur out of its original context, does that mean I'm not offending that race?
This is the point people try to make and they don't realize that it goes both ways. If I take faggot and I apply it to something stupid I'm still offending gay people because its original context is now married to an additional definition -- stupid.
I'm now not only denigrating homosexuals, I'm stating they have a lack of intelligence as well.
This is the point people try to make and they don't realize that it goes both ways. If I take faggot and I apply it to something stupid I'm still offending gay people because its original context is now married to an additional definition -- stupid.
I'm now not only denigrating homosexuals, I'm stating they have a lack of intelligence as well.
Treefingers
Member
You're not consciously trying to offend that race, no.ZephyrFate said:
Once again I'm not saying the word isn't offensive, I'm saying that it's wrong to call someone a homophobe over it.
I would agree that someone who uses the word 'faggot' isn't necessarily homophobic, but I would also add that by using the language, they do unnecessary harm.
If I am honest though, while I can't prove it, I'd say most people who use 'faggot' as an insult would just as easily say that the subtext of the insult is "This person is an effeminate homosexual, and that is a terrible, awful thing to be". Let's not kid ourselves and say that the majority of adults who throw around the word faggot don't know it is an offensive slur, those few who 'don't mean anything by it' should know better.
If I am honest though, while I can't prove it, I'd say most people who use 'faggot' as an insult would just as easily say that the subtext of the insult is "This person is an effeminate homosexual, and that is a terrible, awful thing to be". Let's not kid ourselves and say that the majority of adults who throw around the word faggot don't know it is an offensive slur, those few who 'don't mean anything by it' should know better.
Treefingers
Member
Gaborn said:
To the kids playing it, no it doesn't.
Anyway I'm out.
krypt0nian
Banned
Gaborn said:
I've seen people make that very assertion here on GAF. Not sure why I was surprised after this shithole of a thread. Smh
ZephyrFate
Banned
An ex-friend of mine regrets playing smear the queer as a kid because as he grew up he realized how fucking terrible of a game it was.Treefingers said:
Kinitari said:
Of course they mean something by it, but there is a chance they don't mean "stupid girly homo" by it and instead just "stupid vibe killer".
Which gets me back to why are certain people so hard set to keep the word as a slur against homosexuals? Of course, the history of the word should be known and understood, but nobody uses faggot to mean firewood even if thats the root of the word, and since many different types of people were burned at the stake, the word has always had a randomly selective nature (as would any language or slur). Now the new meaning could ultimately have as much to do with homosexuality as the current popular meaning has to do with firewood, but people are fighting for it to have that previous meaning. Why must language be forever shackled by one particular section of history?
Of course some words are more of a lightning rod than others, but it would be welcome by me if words like nigger and faggot lost their power because that power only helps hateful people. It would be nice if they could fall the way of other slurs like spade, which while once commonly known to be snide for black, has begun losing that connection with new generations that have never heard the word used in that manner. By addressing the hate of the word and also changing the use of the word, slurs can come and go. In this manner, it would be nice if context mattered again, and people stopped being oppressed by words that as users of language they can have power over. I don't think the history should be erased, but that fighting for words to remain bigoted and only bigoted is outright silly and does not serve any cause except immature victimhood.
PhoenixDark
Banned
krypt0nian said:
I'd imagine every group gets to put on some musical where they make their case. Clearly black people would win because Jennifer Hudson is on our side, while you guys have chicks who can't sing *zinng*
On a serious note bros, how about we just say "faggot and nigger are hateful words that shouldn't be said" and leave it at that, jesus.
krypt0nian
Banned
PhoenixDark said:
I claim Adele as she's a gay icon. Fight!
etiolate said:
If you are arguing that by people using the word 'faggot' as a general insult, it will somehow remove it's use as a slur, and introduce a society in which the word is simply a general insult - then you need to make some sort of convincing argument.
As long as it's 'okay' to call someone a faggot as an insult, people are not going to have any qualms using it as a slur. As long as they are both used side by side, the effect remains the same.
There is absolutely no reason, other than pandering to immaturity, to step back and accept the usage of faggot as the way it is, while just crossing fingers and hoping for the best. Why not remove the word from more peoples vocabulary, why would any reasonable person continue to use it as an insult after understanding the impact it has?
ZephyrFate
Banned
A game of tag where one person is the 'queer' and is then subsequently tackled by anyone and everyone until he gives up the object, generally a football but can be other stuff.btkadams said:
ZephyrFate
Banned
Very. About as popular as the definition of faggot applying to gay people.btkadams said:
!It's still popular, too.
PhoenixDark
Banned
krypt0nian said:
Well if you're going to play unfair, I'll build a time machine and bring 1993 Whitney Houston back! booya
Treefingers said:
Sure, which is why to be honest I'm more worried about the parents and teachers that don't educate their kids on why this shit is wrong. HOWEVER, that is not saying we should excuse adults (such as Kobe) who absolutely should know better than that. If racists can't blame their parents because they grew up being taught that racial slurs were acceptable I don't see why superstar athletes can't be held to a similar standard. And no, I'm not saying Kobe is homophobic. His LANGUAGE was though.
When have you seen a ref say that? The reason that there is so much uproar for the "little bitch" comment is because refs are not supposed to do that.Gvaz said:
I've already stated multiple times why I believe it is worse when a person hired to be a neutral arbitrator displays unwarranted bias against you. The ref can punish you for insulting him, you have very little power to punish a ref for insulting you.
Mercury Fred said:
In a nutshell....
The century-long institution of American slavery; the millions killed during the slave trade; the subsequent legal segregation; the fact that according to the "three-fifths compromise" that, legally, black people were weren't even considered people; and the fact that that one word embodies the racism and bigotry that lead to it all.
In a nutshell of course.
American society will forever be profoundly embarrassed by its revolting, abominable past, which is why any fondness or association with the events is considered supremely taboo. I made the analogy of why the Nazi salute is ILLEGAL in Germany, but for some reason, Satyamdas didn't get it.
The black atrocities committed in America : Nazism in Germany
"Nigger" as most offensive word : Nazi salute is illegal
USA/Germany: We really, really fucked up. Don't remind us.
Satyamdas said:
Purpose served for pointing it out: to give some understanding as to why people were defending its usage (the way Kobe used it). If the words are equally offensive, then obviously a bunch of people wouldn't be defending it and people wouldn't have to explain WHY it's offensive.
If the thread title was "Dirk Nowitzki slinging racial slur during nationally televised NBA game," would there really be a 55-page debate about his usage? No.
ZephyrFate
Banned
The only reason people are even defending the use of the word faggot is because people such as yourself for some reason think it doesn't mean homosexual anymore
if it didn't, why the fuck would anyone have cared?
if it didn't, why the fuck would anyone have cared?
les papillons sexuels
Banned
Kobe really shouldn't assume that the ref owns a harley....
I'm gay and I could care less. Hell, I often use the term to describe people, or more specifically a group of people, that push their overly flamboyant personalities on others and tarnish the image of gays everywhere.
You have every right to wear short shorts and rainbow cut off tee... but you also have every right to know you're going to be mocked for it, so don't bitch and complain. Just like you know you're going to be instulted for doing something stupid that would take two seconds of thought to realize it'd be a dumb idea.
Same goes for the term nigger imo, if you want to act in accordance with what that sterotype implies, then don't be offended when that's what you're called. That said, it'd have been fucking hilarious if that's what kobe called the ref.
I'm gay and I could care less. Hell, I often use the term to describe people, or more specifically a group of people, that push their overly flamboyant personalities on others and tarnish the image of gays everywhere.
You have every right to wear short shorts and rainbow cut off tee... but you also have every right to know you're going to be mocked for it, so don't bitch and complain. Just like you know you're going to be instulted for doing something stupid that would take two seconds of thought to realize it'd be a dumb idea.
Same goes for the term nigger imo, if you want to act in accordance with what that sterotype implies, then don't be offended when that's what you're called. That said, it'd have been fucking hilarious if that's what kobe called the ref.
umop_3pisdn
Member
MIMIC said:
I guess it's just a coincidence then that a homophobic slur "evolved" into a general insult, and that there's no other implication to be found behind that particular coincidence. I guess we're just being a bunch of silly faggots to read so much into it.
note: I mean faggot as "annoying person" in this context.
Some claims to "evolution of meaning" hold more water than others. Say when faggot meant bundle of sticks, applying that to homosexuals is a meaning quite divorced from the old one. The problem here is that that isn't the case. Both are derogatory, this new "evolved" meaning is a little too easy to read as a direct consequence of the old bigoted meaning, and no one arguing your position has addressed this point at all. That doesn't mean the intent behind the word is one of bigotry, but the fact that that word was adopted as a general insult at all is certainly implied bigotry.
ZephyrFate
Banned
MIMIC said:
Because in your dream the dream world faggot no longer has the connotations that it does. A small percentage of people may use it differently, but it is by and large and definitely far more attributed as a slur towards effeminacy in men or homosexuality.
You refuse to accept that, and yet gay teens around the country are being called faggot every day for who they are.
But let's delegitimize their plight by saying that faggot simply doesn't mean what it used to. Fucking sickening.
The fact that faggot has grown other meanings are purely derived from their initial slurs towards homosexuals. When you say 'faggot' means 'dickhead, annoying person, stupid, asshole' whatever... it's purely because people probably thought homosexuals were each and every one of those things. The root meaning still exists, and is still the most prevalent and damaging.
I think it is about the direction of evolution, too. It is not being used a general insult completely separated from meaning gay, it is because of that connotation that it is used as a general insult. If, say, 5% of people started using 'kike' to mean... arsehole, it would not be accepted, really. If the word faggot had PREVIOUSLY been used as general insult before gaining the connotation of gay, the evolution of language argument could take place. The only way for a slur to no longer retain that meaning is if the vast majority of people when they use it do not mean anything related to that. I cannot think of a single word that has STOPPED being a slur. Again, if anyone has some examples, please present them so I can get the story right!MIMIC said:
umop_3pisdn said:
The same could be said for lame, dumb, spaz, freak, etc. They all used to have completely different meanings, but because of society's views of its "unnaturalness", they evolved to mean something negative.
And similarly, like the word "rape"....which has come to take on a new meaning these days. I could even say the same thing about kill/death/murder. They all have taken on new meanings, having been turned into "softballed" versions of their original definitions.
Unfortunately, not everyone is going to like it but it just seems like language changes like that.
Justin Timberlake
Member
This thread.
Is still going.
My god.
Is still going.
My god.
ZephyrFate
Banned
I'm pretty sure none of those have ever been slurs. Do you... even know what a slur means?MIMIC said:
Ollie Pooch
In a perfect world, we'd all be homersexual
Whaaat?MIMIC said:
Sorry, I didn't get this bit at all.
julls said:
I think he's just referring to the fact that even a word like "rape" is used in an unconventional manner these days. The most obvious example being (sigh) gamers, who will often use the term "rape" to describe how much better they did than the other team.
"we totally raped you bros last round"
Now obviously they aren't admitting to a sex crime, they're just using 'rape' as a slang word for beating someone just as some fools use 'faggot' for marginalizing someone.
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