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[PleaseDontBanMe]

Is this a different than literally anywhere else? If a guy on Sportscenter or working in an office just tossed out the N-word, I'm guessing that would be a wrap for them.

Ironically Max was captured on video saying the N word a few months ago and there was no backlash at all (or maybe there was and im just misinformed)

 

[Wild Card]

Is this a different than literally anywhere else? If a guy on Sportscenter or working in an office just tossed out the N-word, I'm guessing that would be a wrap for them.

That doesn't have anything to do with his videos being affected, it's either depictions of violence (because it's a fighting game) or because he swears sometimes in the video, whichever reason that youtube's algorithm decides.

 

[KyanMehwulfe]

Has there been a general drop in revenue for folks who still have their videos monetized?

I've actually seen 0 demonetization on my videos. My CPM actually went up about 15-20% My revenue dropped had dropped about 80-85% for most of April though (vs other YOY average or pre-ad change YTD average). Reached about a 95% decline at one point.

It's come up in the last week and it seems to be trending upward, but it's still down about 55-65% YTD or YOY.

(For context, it's pure gaming... mostly GTA V, MGS V, Witcher 3 videos. Usually around 10k views, few around 0.5m views. Technically M rated games but most of the content is not R or even PG13 esque (e.g. how to make money on GTA stock market; best armor sets in B&W, etc). It's more of a hobby since the revenue I make basically pays for my daily coffee, but it was still satisfying to have some sort of 'value' placed on all the work it takes to edit vids. That said I'm not bothered by it per se. It's just a fun hobby and helps me feel my hobby is more productive haha.)

Anyhow, that said, long term I think advertisers will come back. They need Youtube traffic more than Youtube needs them (because Youtube itself is clearly willing to pass on 'ad loss' to its content creators). Long term, e.g., if Coke is willing to advertise on the millions of daily views GTA videos but Pepsi is not, it's going to hurt Pepsi more than any 'WSJ/PDP' controversy will imo. It's likely a short term thing -- 'we don't stand for it' -- but soon as people move on to the next controversy, advertisers will be back.

And it may be why the number of ad buys on GTA videos are already trending back up in the last week or two -- they're already coming back in time for summer. I think most advertisers to ad buys quarterly, too, so I wouldn't be surprised by it's back to normal by July.

 

[Tagyhag]

I think it is mostly about the sense of entitlement these Youtubers seem the bring across. They complain and complain and complain about Youtube, its policies, the ads, but never seem to put any effort in branching out, starting their own website or doing something else.

This makes it seems like they just want to make money the easiest way possible like they deserve to have money thrown that way, and it is no surprise people are a bit put off by that attitude. Even if it is not meant that way, that is how it comes across.

I'm sure some Youtubers have a sense of celebrity entitlement but there's nothing wrong about complaining about problems with the company that you work for, millions of people do it. It's not so easy as "Oh just quit Youtube then, I'm sure whatever video site you make will be popular" Only the absolute biggest names like PewDiePie could get away with that, and even then it'd be extremely complicated.

It'd be like an office worker complaining about some flaws in their company and people telling them "Well just start your own business then! It's that easy".

Usually, when you complain to a big audience is because you want things to change.

 

[Gator86]

Ironically Max was captured on video saying the N word a few months ago and there was no backlash at all (or maybe there was and im just misinformed)

Yeah, I'm saying that he got off way lighter than most other people in another line of work would have. He still has access to his income stream whereas people in many other jobs would have been shitcanned immediately.

 

[Hari Seldon]

Perhaps these YouTube channels should form some sort of network or block that does their own ad sourcing. That would cut YouTube out of the loop and that is what a lot of podcasts do.

 

[Nanashrew]

Well PBG tried resurrecting Normal Boots and no one really moved there. The even went through the trouble of using non-intrusive ads on the site and in videos. It meant less revenue but they wanted people to enjoy the site and their network they created.

Sadly, it never worked out. People chose YouTube and never really visited their site so the site is no longer updated with content.

 

[PrinnyBomb]

Just another example of corporate overreach on the internet. This is really not much different to what the end of Net Neutrality would deliver. Activision get to control every aspect of what people say about their product.

In short, silencing critics outside of the official reviewer sphere.

I think that's a gross overstatement, the videos aren't getting censored or taken down, they just can't generate revenue.

 

[Village]

This is not a CoD WWII problem imo, it's a Youtube problem. They don't want to regulate and take responsibility for the content they host, but they still want to attract easy advetising dollars, so the pass the burden on to content creators on their platform.

Youtubers should not lament that CoD is a WWII game or that they are considered high risk content as game streamers. They should protest to Youtube for being a garbage company run by Google, a hypocritical shitheel of a corporation.

How could they protest youtube in any meaningful way

 

[IrishNinja]

Some youtubers share some of the blame, when you have the biggest faces going full nazi. You going to have to have problems

it sucks cause i know there's some great gaming YT channels (Game Sack, CGR, YakuzaFan etc) but having so many of the "personalities" turn into reprehensible shits makes me less empathetic for stuff like this overall

 

[Slayven]

it sucks cause i know there's some great gaming YT channels (Game Sack, CGR, YakuzaFan etc) but having so many of the "personalities" turn into reprehensible shits makes me less empathetic for stuff like this overall

I am at the point it always seem like the rule and not the exception.

 

[LordRaptor]

It'd be like an office worker complaining about some flaws in their company and people telling them "Well just start your own business then! It's that easy".

Usually, when you complain to a big audience is because you want things to change.

If an office worker on GAF made a topic in OT about every single change their business implemented on pretty much a monthly basis with the gist of "fuck that company that employs me and their shitty practices" you'd better believe any potential sympathy dries up by the third or fourth time they bitch about things and make no fucking effort of their own to change things.

Youtube getting sued to fuck by media owners because Youtubers can't be bothered to licence work? "Fuck you youtube, this is my job!"
Youtube getting investigated by the FTC because Youtubers can't be bothered to disclose paid endorsements? "Fuck you youtube, this is my job!"
Youtube changing discovery algorhythms to make popular videos less sticky and youtubers can't be bothered to do their own promotion? "Fuck you youtube, this is my job!"
Youtube implementing guidelines of suitability of content because youtubers apparently have no fucking concept of appropriate subject matter? "Fuck you youtube, this is my job!"
Youtube getting very public heat for having actual nazis using it as a recruitment tool and trying to appease advertisers because youtubers can't be bothered securing their own advertisers? "Fuck you youtube, this is my job!"

These are just topics off the top of my head.

If you hate your boss so fucking much, get a different job, jfc.

 

[Wild Card]

If an office worker on GAF made a topic in OT about every single change their business implemented on pretty much a monthly basis with the gist of "fuck that company that employs me and their shitty practices" you'd better believe any potential sympathy dries up by the third or fourth time they bitch about things and make no fucking effort of their own to change things.

Youtube getting sued to fuck by media owners because Youtubers can't be bothered to licence work? "Fuck you youtube, this is my job!"
Youtube getting investigated by the FTC because Youtubers can't be bothered to disclose paid endorsements? "Fuck you youtube, this is my job!"
Youtube changing discovery algorhythms to make popular videos less sticky and youtubers can't be bothered to do their own promotion? "Fuck you youtube, this is my job!"
Youtube implementing guidelines of suitability of content because youtubers apparently have no fucking concept of appropriate subject matter? "Fuck you youtube, this is my job!"
Youtube getting very public heat for having actual nazis using it as a recruitment tool and trying to appease advertisers because youtubers can't be bothered securing their own advertisers? "Fuck you youtube, this is my job!"

These are just topics off the top of my head.

If you hate your boss so fucking much, get a different job, jfc.

You seem to be painting youtube in a very positive light, as if youtube is not the direct cause of these problems, and is constantly in conflict with content creators.

 

[mas8705]

Except the way Youtube doles out advertisements and the way TV does so is so inherently different that any comparisons are moot. In TV the network has a certain number of ad-slots for every show it airs, and then, because of the decreased amount of content, it sells those slots off to advertisers on a case-by-case basis. So, to use your WW2 example, a mature documentary for WW2 might air adverts for more adult-orientated products such as cars or insurance (to put it simply); whereas if the history channel were airing a light-hearted show aimed at kids it would sell its slots to toy companies and the like. Another example on the other side might be Nintendo who, during the Superbowl, aired an advert for Zelda whereas if they were to buy a slot on Cartoon Network it would be for Splatoon 2 or Mario Kart instead.

However, with Youtube, advertisers say what demographics they want to market to alongside some other basic and easy-to-avoid descriptors and then that's it, what videos their adverts fall on are left in the digital hands of Youtube's algorithms. The sheer level of content, even monetized, is so large that it's financially impossible for either Google or advertisers to do things like they do with TV, Cinema, etc. So, potentially, someone who wants to market to Males Aged 20-30 with an interest in video-games may end up with their videos on a racist tirade about how Mafia 3 had a black protagonist. Or, as the lines blur between what demographics watch, an alcohol company could end up with their adverts being shown to minors which would a PR nightmare if found out. Only now they're starting to add in what they don't want to have their videos put on, so to re-use the Nintendo example above, if they're looking to put Splatoon 2 adverts on Youtube they might not want those be seen on videos which feature violence of profanity so they blacklist them.

A very interesting read for sure and you have provided alot of great examples. Thank you for taking the time to write this out. Kind of interesting to consider youtube in this case and how it feels like the steps taken in one direction basically sweeps the rug from under the feet of others.

 

[LordRaptor]

You seem to be painting youtube in a very positive light, as if youtube is not the direct cause of these problems, and is constantly in conflict with content creators.

Youtube is an unsuccessful business, and things like Youtube Red (forgot to add that to the list of "fuck you youtube, this is my job!" topics are attempts to try and make it a viable business.

The fact is, it is - at the very least - churlish to endlessly complain about a service that provides people with enough legwork and infrastructure for free that it is even possible to create a business from.
Thats why nobody is rushing to fill that void as a Youtube replacement; nobody is desperate to lose a shit ton of money to pay people that will endlessly say "fuck you" for doing so.

 

[King Gilga]

Honestly, my empathy is lacking when it comes to this.

Youtube is their own platform, they can decide how they run it, don't like it don't use it.

Advertisers have every right to decide what content they show their adds on.

It's obvious when you rely on a random platform for your living that one day something will give and they might fuck you over, if you don't have alternate streams or a contingency plan or whatever for when that happens it's on you.

 

[KyanMehwulfe]

If an office worker on GAF made a topic in OT about every single change their business implemented on pretty much a monthly basis with the gist of "fuck that company that employs me and their shitty practices" you'd better believe any potential sympathy dries up by the third or fourth time they bitch about things and make no fucking effort of their own to change things.

For most Youtubers, it would be the very first time though, especially the vast majority not in the top 1% or 5% of earners.

And minor complaints about how videos are indexed is not the same as suddenly and without warning having 75-95% of your income disappear. Having one occur in no way alludes to the other being likely to occur.

Youtube has made a lot of effort to court content creators, and especially gamer streamers with Youtube Live and to try convince people to switch from Twitch to YT Gaming. It's also the 'only' option for the vast majority of people who are not big enough to rely on Twitch donations or Patreon.

So I don't think it's odd in any way for people to have been reliant and presumptuous about their Youtube 'work' going forward, and be genuinely surprised by something as radical has having basically all your income being taken away without warning.

 

[KojiKnight]

Which is a great thing to me, this kind of shit is not a long term job and people need to think more about their future.

The hell? This is like saying sports and acting isn't a long term job... A lot of these "YouTubers" are serious corporations with dozens of employees, thousands of dollars of equipment, and hundreds of hours a week put into their production.

 

[LordRaptor]

So I don't think it's odd in any way for people to have been reliant and presumptuous about their Youtube 'work' going forward, and be genuinely surprised by something as radical has having basically all your income being taken away without warning.

When your employer has global news headlines putting a ballpark figure of $750 million lost ad revenue due to advertiser boycotts, it is somewhat naive to assume that is not going to affect you in the slightest.

 

[KyanMehwulfe]

When your employer has global news headlines putting a ballpark figure of $750 million lost ad revenue due to advertiser boycotts, it is somewhat naive to assume that is not going to affect you in the slightest.

what's that have to do with whether or not people would have expected that beforehand to happen tho?

 

[rakkadakka]

So I don't think it's odd in any way for people to have been reliant and presumptuous about their Youtube 'work' going forward, and be genuinely surprised by something as radical has having basically all your income being taken away without warning.

By now, if not with recent developments, the cat has been out of the bag when it comes to youtube and swift policy changes.

As a content creator if you aren't on multiple platforms like Twitch or Patreon you are exposing yourself to a lot of risk if your sole source of income is Youtube.

 

[night814]

I think this situation is shitty on both ends. Youtube with their monetization policies should have been more clear from the start and should have put more control into it at the start instead of years later, when people have been living off of it.

The YouTubers themselves should have been very aware that the ad monetization wasn't going to last forever, and would inevitably be taken out of their hands and into the control of the people with the actual money. Nothing lasts forever especially when money is involved.

No one should be shocked that YouTube changed their policies to behove their ad companies.

 

[KyanMehwulfe]

By now, if not with recent developments, the cat has been out of the bag when it comes to youtube and swift policy changes.

As a content creator if you aren't on multiple platforms like Twitch or Patreon you are exposing yourself to a lot of risk if your sole source of income is Youtube.

They're not really alternatives unless you're a streamer of a certain size though. If you make non-live content such as tutorials, and you're a smaller scale content creator (that relies on search traffic, not followers), YT is basically the only game in town.

It's worth noting that smaller scale content creators are also not dependent on YT income -- usually it's supplemental income on the side, so I'm describing people that probably aren't that bothered per se. It's really not that big of a deal; all I'm saying is that a lot of smaller creators were surprised and not diversified, and there are natural reasons for that. It's of little consequence cuz we're talking about people that made a few hundred a month, not relied on making a couple thousand -- just saying why it happened.

 

[Jimrpg]

Could someone explain what is allowed for Youtube Monetization?

As someone who's going to get an Elgato soon and wants to put up Youtube gameplay videos of my favourite games (say Vita, PS4, Wii U etc), what is allowed and not allowed? Is it dependent on the game itself?

Does someone have a link that explains all this stuff? Thanks.

 

[Mechanized]

No one should be shocked that YouTube changed their policies to behove their ad companies.

It's not like it's a selfless endeavor though, companies pay to have their ads run because it means more people will buy their products. Removing your ads from one of the biggest sources of eyeballs seems like a bad business move. Of course advertising on something that could be seen as harmful to your brand would be similarly a bad business move. A pampers ad probably shouldn't show up in the middle of a mortal kombat fatality exhibition for example. But youtube is just handing their balls over to corporations by making their choices on what content they can be seen on way too broad. More work needs to go into this system. Does Nabisco actually give a shit if a cookie ad shows up at the end of a Call of Duty video? For one, it's a video about a video game, for two it's not realistic at all, for three they're a fucking cookie company and I don't give two shits about the moral quandary they'd have over this when I'm a consumer that just wants to eat fucking cookies. Youtube should have the backs of their content creators.

 

[Gattsu25]

When are these Youtubers going to look back and realize that PewDiePie's "Death To All Jews" tasteless stunt was the turning point for their profitability?

 

[Nanashrew]

Google and Facebook are bullies in the ad industry from becoming giants so I imagine this is also one way that ad agencies are choosing to fight back as well. Bad business decision or not.

 

[Jotaka]

I have zero empathy to any youtuber. It's so easy to host your own videos in some web hosting and place as many ads they want in that page.

 

[LordRaptor]

Does someone have a link that explains all this stuff? Thanks.

https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/6162278

 

[Maximo]

I have zero empathy to any youtuber. It's so easy to host your own videos in some web hosting and place as many ads they want in that page.

That shows your ignorance.

 

[lastplayed]

Funny, I stopped making gaming videos because I was sick of all the content claims siphoning money off to someone else.

Now my model building videos have no chance of anyone claiming copyright, so I get all of the sweet, sweet family friendly ad dollars.

 

[KojiKnight]

I have zero empathy to any youtuber. It's so easy to host your own videos in some web hosting and place as many ads they want in that page.

And how are you going to get people to come to your website?

You literally do not understand the situation.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

If an office worker on GAF made a topic in OT about every single change their business implemented on pretty much a monthly basis with the gist of "fuck that company that employs me and their shitty practices" you'd better believe any potential sympathy dries up by the third or fourth time they bitch about things and make no fucking effort of their own to change things.

Youtube getting sued to fuck by media owners because Youtubers can't be bothered to licence work? "Fuck you youtube, this is my job!"
Youtube getting investigated by the FTC because Youtubers can't be bothered to disclose paid endorsements? "Fuck you youtube, this is my job!"
Youtube changing discovery algorhythms to make popular videos less sticky and youtubers can't be bothered to do their own promotion? "Fuck you youtube, this is my job!"
Youtube implementing guidelines of suitability of content because youtubers apparently have no fucking concept of appropriate subject matter? "Fuck you youtube, this is my job!"
Youtube getting very public heat for having actual nazis using it as a recruitment tool and trying to appease advertisers because youtubers can't be bothered securing their own advertisers? "Fuck you youtube, this is my job!"

These are just topics off the top of my head.

If you hate your boss so fucking much, get a different job, jfc.

There needs to be more professionalism among youtubers.

 

[night814]

It's not like it's a selfless endeavor though, companies pay to have their ads run because it means more people will buy their products. Removing your ads from one of the biggest sources of eyeballs seems like a bad business move. Of course advertising on something that could be seen as harmful to your brand would be similarly a bad business move. A pampers ad probably shouldn't show up in the middle of a mortal kombat fatality exhibition for example. But youtube is just handing their balls over to corporations by making their choices on what content they can be seen on way too broad. More work needs to go into this system. Does Nabisco actually give a shit if a cookie ad shows up at the end of a Call of Duty video? For one, it's a video about a video game, for two it's not realistic at all, for three they're a fucking cookie company and I don't give two shits about the moral quandary they'd have over this when I'm a consumer that just wants to eat fucking cookies. Youtube should have the backs of their content creators.

I agree with you 100%, this is an imcomplete system that doesn't seem to work well or is working way too well. These companies want to control their message though and are paniced that if an ad does appear with something they would consider inappropriate they will be bombarded with emails and social media movements. They want nothing to do with it so I can definitely see why they want the new policy to be incredibly broad, and potentially far too broad.

 

[excelsiorlef]

It's almost like toxic elements like gamergate growing mostly unchecked by the gaming industry and toxic youtube culture growing mostly unchecked by youtubers has extreme over the top consequences when an amoral corporation who only really cares about perception and profit has to act like your parents and step in.

 

[WaterAstro]

Was this brought up with Battlefield 1?

 

[night814]

It's almost like toxic elements like gamergate growing mostly unchecked by the gaming industry and toxic youtube culture growing mostly unchecked by youtubers has extreme over the top consequences when an amoral corporation who only really cares about perception and profit has to act like your parents and step in.

I think you really hit the nail on the head here. Everyone involved who had the power to step in and never did is truly to blame. They let it get bad and the advertisers wanted them to step in and they did.

 

[Dinky Dino]

Content creators/youtubers should just get their audience to watch elsewhere. Only way you'd get youtube to listen is hurting them where the money is.

 

[KyanMehwulfe]

Was this brought up with Battlefield 1?

BF1 released before all this occurred... it was a rather sudden thing that happened in a span of a week in the 2nd half of March. Advertisers began to pull out en masse, which by itself (without any action from Youtube) drastically decreased the number of ads showing on Youtube in general. Then, about a week later, Youtube changed how they let advertisers buy ads, which also started resulting in even less ads appearing on certain types of channels, and also new monetization enforcement, which resulted in demonetization of videos. From the original AT&T ad pull out to ad revenue beginning to crash was about a week. The week of March 15-21, everything was fine yet. The news hit on Mar 22 and ad revenue began to trend down almost immediately, and was probably at -50 to -90% by the new YT rules on Apr1.

 

[Defective14]

Well that's their problem - they're making CoD content. It's inevitably going to lose interest from the fanbase.

 

[evil ways]

The could always make Kinder Egg Surprise and Shopkins videos. Those seem to reel in a lot of views and money.

 

[Cow Mengde]

Could someone explain what is allowed for Youtube Monetization?

My experience from a couple of years ago is very strange. Youtube wants me to monetize the only video on my channel that's essentially a trailer for an upcoming documentary series. Other videos without copyright content? Fuck that. Go and monetize the one you'll most likely get in trouble for. I never did enable monetization for that video.

 

[Jimrpg]

https://support.google.com/youtube/answer/6162278

Thanks though it seems quite general and not gaming specific? I suppose I have to just put up videos of whatever I want and let youtube block me then.

My experience from a couple of years ago is very strange. Youtube wants me to monetize the only video on my channel that's essentially a trailer for an upcoming documentary series. Other videos without copyright content? Fuck that. Go and monetize the one you'll most likely get in trouble for. I never did enable monetization for that video.

This is kind of what i mean. Like if I want to show gameplay, I want to know if its ok or not. So I literally have to put it up and wait to see if it gets reported? Nintendo also wants to get their share of the youtube money as well, so what are the rules for that?

 

[oneils]

Wouldn't this create opportunities for a YT competitor?

The YouTube competitor has to come up with a process to pair up advertisers with the content they want to be associated with. Probably easier said than done. They'd either have to come up with better algorithms than YouTube or fill in a niche.

 

[TetraGenesis]

What the fuck?

 

[AndrewDean84xX]

I will try to be ok with this tragic news.

 

[Syriel]

Thanks though it seems quite general and not gaming specific? I suppose I have to just put up videos of whatever I want and let youtube block me then.



This is kind of what i mean. Like if I want to show gameplay, I want to know if its ok or not. So I literally have to put it up and wait to see if it gets reported? Nintendo also wants to get their share of the youtube money as well, so what are the rules for that?

Posting videos is a business.

Basically, you need to learn copyright law and proceed from there. Understand that false claims will be made and counter claim on them.

One of the biggest problems with YouTube is that so many content creators never bothered to actually learn the business and legal issues behind the industry they've chosen to work in.

Learn the basics and you're a lot less likely to be caught by surprise.

 

[Anth0ny]

Depictions of violence real or fictional.

It is far, far too broad when there's a spectrum to violence from light comical like in cartoons all the way to heavy and brutal like a slasher film.

can't you kill animals in minecraft?


demonetize minecraft




like it's ridiculous

 

[Blam]

Youtube getting very public heat for having actual nazis using it as a recruitment tool and trying to appease advertisers because youtubers can't be bothered securing their own advertisers? "Fuck you youtube, this is my job!"

You can't just say this like that. I don't remember actual neo-nazi's using youtube. Just using pewdiepie as their logo.

Completely different from actual neo nazi's using YouTube. It's the same shit as ISIS using Twitter. Any of the recent moments that YouTube has been in the newest is for cherrypicked as fuck. The "Alabama N" video, and same with the PewDiePie videos. They were both cherrypicked. Sure advertisements shouldn't have been played on videos that have racial terms in the titles, but well that's on YouTube they clearly should have blacklisted the N word from their system.

 

[Nanashrew]

You can't just say this like that. I don't remember actual neo-nazi's using youtube. Just using pewdiepie as their logo.

Completely different from actual neo nazi's using YouTube. It's the same shit as ISIS using Twitter. Any of the recent moments that YouTube has been in the newest is for cherrypicked as fuck. The "Alabama N" video, and same with the PewDiePie videos. They were both cherrypicked. Sure advertisements shouldn't have been played on videos that have racial terms in the titles, but well that's on YouTube they clearly should have blacklisted the N word from their system.

DaddyoFive though and the child abuse.

None of the ad boycott even started with Pewdiepie or any of the top YouTubers. I even brought it up on the previous page that MPs called Google into to talk to them about what they were doing about extremist videos on their platform. That's what started the boycott, that Google was doing so little. Ad agencies began removing themselves from Google and YouTube in the UK, and later it spread to other countries and finally reached us in the US.

The original article that started everything.
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/google-faces-questions-over-videos-on-youtube-3km257v8d

Most controversially, a proportion of these videos are enabled to run advertising. Dozens of YouTube videos promoting Combat 18, a violent pro-Nazi group, Isis or hate speech from al- Qaeda preachers, all run pop-up ads from reputable brands such as Marie Curie, the hospice charity, and Mercedes-Benz.

And here we got an Independent article from 4 days ago because it's being brought into question again:
http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...witter-google-youtube-terrorist-a7711051.html