Moon_frogger
Member
honestly, you can blame fucks like pewdiepie and jontron for this.
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Kotaku: YouTubers Say They Can't Make Money Covering Call of Duty: WWII
- Thread starter LordOfLore
- Start date
Professor Beef
Banned
Them + YouTube not willing to do anything about them or similar content makers.
I'm actually glad Max is being negatively impacted by this. I used to watch his videos but I don't support racists/white supremacists.
ClosingADoor
Member
Sure, but that office worker is going to complain to a few coworkers and family. Not stand in front of their building and yell at anyone walking by.
When you air your complaints to a large audience, you also get people that do not agree or simply think you are whining and should get back to work.
After a few years of seeing videos dropping by about content ID, copyright strikes, now ad issues, it is no wonder a lot of people are thinking: here are those same Youtube channels again complaining about having it so hard, get over it guys.
theangrypirate
Member
If the youtubers have enough talent they will make it without youtube. If they don't they might have to actually work for a living like the rest of us. Good luck out there streamers.
I hate seeing that argument brought up here, of all places.
Youtube work is real work.
I guess youtubers will have to start do in video advertising, that's the only way out. Stop depending on youtube ads.
I guess this is the market.
If you're making content to sell advertising, if that's what you want to do, you have to make content that does just that.
Perhaps game content makers should band together to try to evangelise youtube content to gaming company's advertising departments - though conflicts of interest may abound here. I have the impression that general advertisers have often not been particularly fond of games content anyway.
Perhaps the podcast model is an alternative. Some advertising, but build networks that can attract donations. Maximum Fun, on the podcast side, seems to do this quite successfully. You need to make really well-loved shows for this to work though.
If you're making content to sell advertising, if that's what you want to do, you have to make content that does just that.
Perhaps game content makers should band together to try to evangelise youtube content to gaming company's advertising departments - though conflicts of interest may abound here. I have the impression that general advertisers have often not been particularly fond of games content anyway.
Perhaps the podcast model is an alternative. Some advertising, but build networks that can attract donations. Maximum Fun, on the podcast side, seems to do this quite successfully. You need to make really well-loved shows for this to work though.
jetsetnickradio
Member
Ugh, this attitude needs to die already. You seriously have no idea how much work goes into making videos. Even a "simple" 10 minute gaming video can take hours to record and edit. Then there's making thumbnails, tagging, captioning, promoting, ect. And that's just for a gaming videos. Vloggers, animators, musicians, ect spend even more time on their videos.
Streaming is also incredibly hard work because you need to have a ton of energy, be really entertaining and stream for long hours every single day. And even if you do all of that, it will still probably take months of doing it every single day before you get more than a handful of followers.
theangrypirate
Member
I'm not saying they don't work hard. I couldn't do it, I don't have the personality. But If I did have the personality and talent required for it and I could get paid the same salary I make as a software engineer I would happily play games and edit videos for a living. It's like pro athletes or rock stars. They work hard AF but I'd trade my job for theirs any day. I'm envious of their lifestyle, I'm not hating on it.
If the entire infrastructure collapses because of two people saying stupid shit, it's a problem with the infrastructure, not the stupid people.
Professor Beef
Banned
And he's neither
Which is why it needs regulation, that will impact all YouTubers but its better than the consumer being taken for a ride or affected negatively in other ways,
whalleywhat
Member
Hopefully we all get dragged down to the level of some third-world peon. I hate that some people work in an office while most of the world's twelve-year-olds are dismantling motherboards for pennies while their skin peels off.
I have never seen or heard anything to remotely make this claim about max. When that happened max didn't make excuses are any bs he straight up owned up to it explained what happened and apologized . He handled it the best way possible and came across very genuine about it.
theangrypirate
Member
what in the hell are you talking about?
ZeroTheShadow
Member
I dunno, when's last time you saw Max with anyone who wasn't white? I think those white supremacist accusations could hold some water. I mean he is FGC, & we know how evil those guys are.
Turin Turambar
Member
Honestly, you don't have any idea of what you are saying.
It's advertisers, they are literally clicking on a checkbox that says 'depiction of war', saying they don't want their ads to be shown in videos with some depiction of war, be real, historical or fictional.
Well if you don't control the platform, the gravy train can end at any moment. YTers should have been prepared for this scenario.
nephilimdj
Member
I think hes referencing that max said the N word in rage while playing for honor
Anyway considering how flamboyant and silly fgc can be, its no suprise smash community constantly get caught being dickheads/racists/neckbeards, but max is no such guy.
lmaoooo
ZeroTheShadow
Member
Smash is not part of the FGC amigo.
There won't be an equivalent as the vast majority of internet users would hate paying for content that used to be free. There's a reason only the massive Youtubers with TV-quality work (Vsauce, for example) have adopted Youtube Red; most others don't lock their content behind paywalls except for the occasional channel who lets Patreon supporters watch things early.
No I'll go in the other direction.
I don't believe this. I think it's just something people repeat enough times that they actually start to believe.
I personally think 90% of the most popular YouTubers today are popular from sheer luck and managing to cash in on something at the right time with the right demographics. There are plenty of small channels that put in far more work.
Recording yourself playing a video game and doing a bit of editing takes no meaningful work whatsoever.
Anyway YouTube was due for a good culling. I'm glad these advertisers are laying down the law.
Messofanego
Banned
I'm surprised other Youtubers haven't gone off about them causing this in the first place. Usually, they have no problem getting into drama about other Youtubers. This seems like ripe material, considering it's affecting all their incomes.
Since a massive chunk of successful YouTube gaming video personalities, for whichever reason, tend to be young-ish solitary white males, there's maybe a higher than normal chance that they may actually agree with people like JonTron than not. They are usually the highest at risk demographic outside of senior citizens for that kind of dogma.
feint_ruled
Member
Youtubing might well be real work, but we don't get to pick our own jobs, mores the pity. You have to do something someone will pay you for, and they are obviously going to set the ground rules. The fact the YTers have had it good for so long is neither here not there, advertisers have wised up a bit and they must adapt.
ClosingADoor
Member
It's a lot of work because they constantly have to provide new, daily content for their viewers. It's not really hard work, it's just time consuming due to the nature of the job. But well, that's media. It never stops.
because youtubers hate censorship (or their version of it) and give no shits about racism or bigotry. In their minds, Jon and Pewdiepie aren't at fault at all for being careless in the public eye. They should be allowed to say what they want, and nobody should care. The real enemy is the WSJ for reporting on what they said. Because nobody could possibly care about racism without the media telling them to, right?
The truth is Youtubers have had it very easy until this point, while celebrities in other mediums are much more careful about PR. And as the site gets more and more mainstream, they're slowly starting to deal with the same consequences as everyone else in the public eye.
KZXcellent
Member
Out of all people Max is somehow a racist? Yeah, sure buddy.
Introspection and self awareness on youtube? Sweet summer child
Bit off-topic but threads like these make me wonder what happened to the days where people simply made videos on youtube because they wanted to make videos and entertain people. Everything seems to revolve around monetization and videos serving as adds and / or sources of add revenues nowadays...
Nothing against people trying to make a living making videos but I have some trouble to really take a content creator seriously if they'd for instance refuse to cover a game because they did not get a free copy or, like in this more specific case, if they can't collect any ad revenue (even if that does indeed suck). Keeping your fans happy by doing the content they expect and enjoy always should come first, no?
That said, maybe I'm being too naive and unbusiness-like in my views again but that's my 2 cents I guess.
Edit: just to clarify (in light of discussions following below): I'm not saying that being a youtube content content creator is not a lot of work, that it doesn't take real skills or even that it doesn't or should never count as a job. I'm only saying that making videos shouldn't necessarily need to be a job, or be something that necessarily rewards any form of patronage or payment. Originally it seemed like many video makers were simply satisfied with just having a platform and any kind of audience, but nowadays it has shifted so far that it sometimes feels to me that, for many of them, artistic vision and the wish to entertain has been replaced by a desire or even need to get paid (in turn sometimes even leading to said refusals to cover unmonitizable games). Again, not judging any individuals (Max least of all - keep up the good work my friend!) but simply reflecting on the whole.
Nothing against people trying to make a living making videos but I have some trouble to really take a content creator seriously if they'd for instance refuse to cover a game because they did not get a free copy or, like in this more specific case, if they can't collect any ad revenue (even if that does indeed suck). Keeping your fans happy by doing the content they expect and enjoy always should come first, no?
That said, maybe I'm being too naive and unbusiness-like in my views again but that's my 2 cents I guess.
Edit: just to clarify (in light of discussions following below): I'm not saying that being a youtube content content creator is not a lot of work, that it doesn't take real skills or even that it doesn't or should never count as a job. I'm only saying that making videos shouldn't necessarily need to be a job, or be something that necessarily rewards any form of patronage or payment. Originally it seemed like many video makers were simply satisfied with just having a platform and any kind of audience, but nowadays it has shifted so far that it sometimes feels to me that, for many of them, artistic vision and the wish to entertain has been replaced by a desire or even need to get paid (in turn sometimes even leading to said refusals to cover unmonitizable games). Again, not judging any individuals (Max least of all - keep up the good work my friend!) but simply reflecting on the whole.
I agree that YouTube video making shouldn't be shrugged off as easy work for some cases, but I think even streamers would disagree with you there.
We've got Netflix, Hulu, Amazon Prime, YouTube Red, and probably a dozen more that don't leap readily to mind.
Lister
Banned
I don't think you can do without QA on complex game titles. QA isn't just about playing the game looking for bugs, although that's part of it. You need to use internal tools, follow integration testing procedures, they might even be doing profiling.
You can't farm that out to gamers.
Plz don't tell me you think Max isn't FGC because he likes smash
cookie-monster
Member
and if they did regulate it, infantile internet warriors like yourself would argue censorship and curation issues. Truly worthless pious look at me shitposting.
irrotational
Member
YouTube is still getting an awful lot of ad money...so presumably family friendly videos are getting loads more revenue now? Are any of them speaking out about how good it is?
LordRaptor
Member
Where does this idea that Youtube is super profitable come from? Because its parent company is?
BeatnikGunsoo
Member
Nope
My revenue has dropped like 90%, while my cpm has gone up oddly enough lol
I don't curse in any of my videos, none of my videos have been demonetized besides the content ID'd ones
Hell I'm a black guy with dreads playing video games for children
so diversity checked
and
breaking stereotypes across the world lol
but seriously I kinda saw this coming since around like December so I started doing other online jobs to help supplement the income loss from youtube
but what I definitely didn't see coming was the sheer drop in revenue that happened in april
whew
Both of these statements have a level of truth to them.
Part of the problem with a lot of the creator complaints seems to be that yes, creating videos is work, but they only want to focus the fun part of it.
Being a personality is not just making videos. It is marketing. It is sales. It is advertising. It is promotion. It is brand management. It is legal work. It is handling expenses. It is...a whole bunch of things.
It seems like a lot of complaints come from people who just expect all of the back end (ie boring stuff) to be taken care of so they can focus on the creation aspect. Those who do take all of the back end components into account aren't going to be as impacted when things on the platform do change because they haven't given up as much control.
The other big aspect to keep in mind is that "making it" as a personality is not guaranteed. Hitting it bit on Internet Fame is no different than hitting it big in Hollywood, sports, or music. Lots and lots of people will struggle and try to get noticed. Only a small percentage will ever be lucky enough to get the right mix of events that catapults them to stardom.
Found this at the beginning of the thread and it's worth quoting as a reminder.
Ad money is not guaranteed. Advertisers decide where to spend their dollars, and if your outlet is not seen as a useful spend, they're going to take their money elsewhere.
Someone putting in more work and getting recognized less isn't unique to youtube as a platform and video making as medium, and cannot and should not under any logical circumstances be used as a justification to put down an entire medium.
Some times people appropriate people you appropriate less, that's the nature of life.
"Oh bunches of people are listening to muble rap right now, welp fuck rap music as a medium"
shits silly
Whoa. Slow down. Context in situations like this in how that word was said by him are extremely important and not once have I ever got the impression he's anything like that.
BleedOrange
Banned
lol
shanafan
Member
BleedOrange
Banned
Man, sounds like all these "youtubers" have so much talent! Surely they'll find a job that pays them a salary then.
So just because someone doesn't have a salary means all of their work isn't real or meaningful?