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[jett]

:lol HOLY SHIT those accesories are damn fucking expensive. What the shit is MS thinking, $50+tax for a controller?? I guess since they've increased game prices by $10, they might as well go all the way. I'm not liking the "HD-era" so far.

 

[FiRez]

Ok this thread is HUGE and sorry if this was already answered - will the games be $60?

Oh, that will be just icing on the cake

 

[Kabuki Waq]

:lol HOLY SHIT those accesories are damn fucking expensive. What the shit is MS thinking, $50+tax for a controller?? I guess since they've increased game prices by $10, they might as well go all the way. I'm not liking the "HD-era" so far.

psyborgs should be worried as well i mean do you think Sony will be cheaper in any aspect?

 

[DCharlie]

"not one game can support the hard drive as a primary function. Games must work without the hard drive no matter what. You can optimise a game for the hard drive if it's attached.

Considering this was in the basic specs as of... oh... over a year ago....

a) Square isn't going "oh shit!" because their game won't require an install this time.

b) it's not fracturing the userbase. All games will be played as normal without a hard drive. increased loadtimes will result with a bunch of games if you have one.

that is all."

so when Square said (paraphrase) "we are making a X360 version , but we can't make a PS3 version because they aren't supporting a HDD as standard" they were just fibbing?

I'm sure you are right and they must have knew something, but man.... something doesn't smell right.

I appreciate that a game can support HDD and non-hdd. But how would FFXI work - it's a 8 gig install for PS2 / PC version - surely having the game run entirely off DVD would be a massive effort? Given that most people close to the project say it's basically finished, it would seem that Square have either turned this amazing feat around in record time, or we are lacking details...

 

[Redbeard]

:lol HOLY SHIT those accesories are damn fucking expensive. What the shit is MS thinking, $50+tax for a controller?? I guess since they've increased game prices by $10, they might as well go all the way. I'm not liking the "HD-era" so far.

Shouldn't you be blaming publishers for higher game prices?

No, no. That would make too much sense.

 

[mrklaw]

the biggest thing that sticks with me at the moment (other than calling some one dick face , then having them call me dickface back twice, which was pretty useless) is that Square must be thinking "... err... what the fuck?"

Well done MS! get Square at least on board, then fragment the userbase!

One thing today proves - whoever is running the show at MS is so out of touch with what they need to do that they are making it very difficult for anyone to take them seriously.

Seriously, i think they'd be hard pressed to get any random poster on this board to come up with worse ideas!

$399 full pack for 6 months until the PS3 launches and then drop it to $299? Whats the point??? ONE SKU at $299 from the off - swallow 6 months extra loss (because contrary to popular belief , the share price won't move significantly + it would yeild a much better possition in the console market). Clueless to the end - at this point in time they deserve a good slapping.

MS:
I am available for hire - i live in Japan - and i can HELP YOU.
Seriously, how much WORSE can it be for you?

while I agree about the general incompetence, I don't agree with your suggestion. They should have kept the $399 tag for the premium pack, bigged up all the stuff you get, then dropped to $299 for PS3 launch.

The early adopters will pay it anyway, so no point getting hit for the extra $100.

Its the dual SKUs and fragmented userbase thats dumb. Still, they probably expected to strip the HDD later on to help keep price competitive with Sony, so they'd still have to mandate no required HDD usage.

If they'd have guaranteed it, Sony could have made it optional and therefore have a price movement advantage. Problem for MS moving first.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Shouldn't you be blaming publishers for higher game prices?

No, no. That would make too much sense.

Unless MS upped their fees.

 

[Jonnyram]

a) Square isn't going "oh shit!" because their game won't require an install this time.

You are absolutely 100% wrong. FFXI will only run with a HDD. There is no way in hell it could be run off DVD. Methinks it could be preinstalled on the HDD at launch though

I agree it was a fucking stupid move to come up with 2 SKUs. Having said that, it's pretty much the same situation PS2 is currently in, and noone's really crying about that now. Square was probably pissed off with SCEA's dilly-dallying (and SCEE still pissing about) re: the HDD, but I think it's pretty clear that most non-casual gamers are going to opt for the complete package anyway.

 

[IJoel]

not one game can support the hard drive as a primary function. Games must work without the hard drive no matter what. You can optimise a game for the hard drive if it's attached.

Considering this was in the basic specs as of... oh... over a year ago....

a) Square isn't going "oh shit!" because their game won't require an install this time.

b) it's not fracturing the userbase. All games will be played as normal without a hard drive. increased loadtimes will result with a bunch of games if you have one.

that is all.

MMORPGs require HDD. I do not doubt Square being really upset at this decision. This was their chance to get an audience to buy their game without need for anything else (no Xbox Live Gold, nor HDD.) Not anymore.

 

[PhatSaqs]

so when Square said (paraphrase) "we are making a X360 version , but we can't make a PS3 version because they aren't supporting a HDD as standard" they were just fibbing?

I'm sure you are right and they must have knew something, but man.... something doesn't smell right.

I agree. Something must have changed. I can see it now. FF11 360 package with a huge "REQUIRES HARD DRIVE TO PLAY" sticker on it.

 

[DarienA]

a) Square isn't going "oh shit!" because their game won't require an install this time.

And it won't get updates?

b) it's not fracturing the userbase. All games will be played as normal without a hard drive. increased loadtimes will result with a bunch of games if you have one.

I think the definition of fracturing the userbase seems to have changed...

 

[Pimpbaa]

I don't need any of the premium package stuff. My plans haven't changed, I'm just gonna get the core package.

 

[DCharlie]

"while I agree about the general incompetence, I don't agree with your suggestion. They should have kept the $399 tag for the premium pack, bigged up all the stuff you get, then dropped to $299 for PS3 launch.

The early adopters will pay it anyway, so no point getting hit for the extra $100.

Its the dual SKUs and fragmented userbase thats dumb. Still, they probably expected to strip the HDD later on to help keep price competitive with Sony, so they'd still have to mandate no required HDD usage.

If they'd have guaranteed it, Sony could have made it optional and therefore have a price movement advantage. Problem for MS moving first."

agreed - if the $299 SKU didn't exist, then i think things would look much better.
the only part of the battle left unclear is what Sony will do - there are a lot of assumptions floating around, and only an official announcement will solve the mystery.

note : $100 hit per unit for MS? do they REALLY give a shit? i mean... seriously?

 

[mrklaw]

Doesn't matter. It still goes against what MS has been preaching for months. They could at least include component cables in the box too.

Like I've mentioned before it isn't the hardware price that bugs me. It's the split skus and the peripheral prices and game prices.

they do. from xbox360.com official package info (LINK):




from the same pages:

Finally, Xbox 360 lets you control a new world of digital entertainment. So you can listen to your own play lists while you play all your games, and jack in your MP3 player, digital camera, and Windows XP PC to play your music, photos, and TV shows through your home entertainment system. Plus it lets you stream high definition TV and movies stored on Windows Media Center Edition PCs starting this Christmas.

sounds like maybe you can stream video, but only stream HD if you have MCE?

 

[DopeyFish]

And it won't get updates?



I think the definition of fracturing the userbase seems to have changed...

Updates will be sent to your memory card or hard drive. Since LIVE is required to play (Silver or Gold) you still need a memory card.

fracturing the userbase = this game will only if you have this feature. You aren't fracturing the userbase by alleviating loadtimes. The games will run the same after loading with or without the hard drive.

 

[Jonnyram]

Starting off with $399 and dropping to $299 less than a year later?
SATURN, ANYONE!?

Bad idea.
Good in theory, but it leaves a bad taste in early adopters' mouths. Especially those that buy on credit.

 

[The Faceless Master]

if FFXI need more than 64mb of updates then yuou need either (a) a HDD or (b) a new disk...

oh i get it now... they'll have something like 'memory: 5000 blocks' on the box, whereas the memory card will only have 2000 blocks...

 

[mrklaw]

I don't need any of the premium package stuff. My plans haven't changed, I'm just gonna get the core package.

thats the beauty of the way MS have priced it. You can be happy thinking 'core system', 'core system'. But you'll need a memory card at least ($40!). So now you're $340. For only $60, the price of one game, you could instead have a nice big HDD for save games/soundtracks; wireless controller etc.

 

[Funky Papa]

Starting off with $399 and dropping to $299 less than a year later?
SATURN, ANYONE!?

Bad idea.
Good in theory, but it leaves a bad taste in early adopters' mouths. Especially those that buy on credit.

I have three words for you my friend:

European. Xbox. Launch.

 

[IJoel]

To fracture this discussion, did you guys notice the $99 price for the damn wireless adapter? I bought a $30 USB wireless adapter for my PC. I think I'm more baffled at the ridiculousness of that price than anything else. It's a massive rip off. Not to mention, a $99 20GB Hard Disk. It's like they're charging us for their past sins on Xbox.

 

[DopeyFish]

Starting off with $399 and dropping to $299 less than a year later?
SATURN, ANYONE!?

Bad idea.
Good in theory, but it leaves a bad taste in early adopters' mouths. Especially those that buy on credit.

Xbox dropped in price in even less time. *scratches head*

To fracture this discussion, did you guys notice the $99 price for the damn wireless adapter? I bought a $30 USB wireless adapter for my PC. I think I'm more baffled at the ridiculousness of that price than anything else. It's a massive rip off. Not to mention, a $99 20GB Hard Disk. It's like they're charging us for their past sins on Xbox.

i'll be buying two for the simple reason of it having Ad-hoc. No hub/router required for system linking. sick.

 

[AniHawk]

Xbox dropped in price in even less time. *scratches head*

Well it might not be so bad if the 360 wasn't the most expensive system since the Saturn.

 

[Pimpbaa]

thats the beauty of the way MS have priced it. You can be happy thinking 'core system', 'core system'. But you'll need a memory card at least ($40!). So now you're $340. For only $60, the price of one game, you could instead have a nice big HDD for save games/soundtracks; wireless controller etc.

Only need the memory card.

 

[TTP]

Any news about japanese prices?

And, do we know the exact launch dates?

 

[Gattsu25]

Dopey: You haven't really played FFXI much, have you? Squeenix offers (monthly?) updates for FFXI that can get quite large in size. A memory card might work for FFXI but for how many months before it exceeds 64MB?

Also: how big is FFXI with both expansions? I remember it being larger than 8 GB with just the first expansion pack =\

 

[MightyHedgehog]

agreed - if the $299 SKU didn't exist, then i think things would look much better.
the only part of the battle left unclear is what Sony will do - there are a lot of assumptions floating around, and only an official announcement will solve the mystery.

note : $100 hit per unit for MS? do they REALLY give a shit? i mean... seriously?

Yeah, I think MS wanted to cover that base with offering the two pricepoints. If MS had only come out with the one SKU at $399, Sony would probably have tried to go after that as well, but offered a $299 core system of their own to counter. This way, MS has the cheap and the normal way to go from the get-go and doesn't have to react (late) to Sony's pricing later on.

As for the rest of this thread...while I'm not happy with the pricing, I don't think it's that bad. Certainly, buying a new console means buying a memory card, perhaps different video cables, and a memory unit on top of 1-4 games...for most people. The $399 normal system package is a good deal, looking at it that way. Anyway, this would seem to be the same thing to expect from Sony...perhaps even higher for PS3, who knows...that BR drive isn't going to be cheap. Too bad about some of that accessory pricing from MS, though ... :\

 

[Elios83]

Any news about japanese prices?

And, do we know the exact launch dates?

Japanese price at TGS.
No launch dates.

 

[PhatSaqs]

To fracture this discussion, did you guys notice the $99 price for the damn wireless adapter?

That's how much just about all wireless console adpapters cost right now. At least ones that work well.

 

[Jonnyram]

As for the rest of this thread...while I'm not happy with the pricing, I don't think it's that bad.

The pricing is fine, it's the non-HDD el cheapo SKU that's bad.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

The pricing is fine, it's the non-HDD el cheapo SKU that's bad.

Oh I agree, but like I said in that last post, I think it's MS' way of pre-empting Sony's chance to do the same and allowing them to just sell to those who really don't care to spend more than $299 for a new system. It's certainly not a perfect or even desirable pricing structure...Square probably doesn't quite like it, but oh well.

 

[shuri]

Will the deluxe set comes with ports for the wired controllers?

 

[Argyle]

Live headset will work. Video cables from xbox won't work (different connecter)

OMG NOW I'M PISSED

I already spent $30-40 on an Xbox HD pack. What reason do they have to change the connector again? Both Sony and Nintendo have a clue about this and they haven't substantially changed their AV multi outs in generations.

The last console manufacturer that switched out their multi out every gen was...Sega...hrm...

 

[teh_pwn]

I'm not buying.

$400 is too much. This isn't a MSvsSonyvsNintendo thing. I refuse to buy any consoles at that price.

 

[Daigoro]

No hub/router required for system linking. sick.

yeah, a real steal at 200$.

 

[teiresias]

The only reason the $399 SKU can even be considered a "deal" is because MS is raping you on peripheral pricing. Hardly a "deal" in that context . . . that said Sony will do the same thing.

Dopey has officially become the biggest joke on this forum.

 

[Tarazet]

To fracture this discussion, did you guys notice the $99 price for the damn wireless adapter? I bought a $30 USB wireless adapter for my PC. I think I'm more baffled at the ridiculousness of that price than anything else. It's a massive rip off. Not to mention, a $99 20GB Hard Disk. It's like they're charging us for their past sins on Xbox.

At least they're not charging us for the Windows licensing fee, lolamirite?

 

[cyberheater]

Here's a question for yer...


Will Xbox360 still be backward compatible if it doesn't have a harddrive?

 

[Kabuki Waq]

anyone else get the feeling dopeyfish works for MS or something?

 

[Kintaro]

This is fucking stupid. $399? Fuck you and fuck ANY system releasing at this price (this is a real package as it includes the HD imo). Splitting the userbase, requiring more retailer inventory...this is all stupid. FU MS. And FU Sony if you even think of launching near this price.

FU Next Gen.

 

[The End]

If Sony was really smart, they'd include a ~30gig hard drive in every launch unit at, say, $350, but with the stipulation that no individual game use more than, say, a gig of swap space, so that later on, they replace the HD with 2 gigs of flash memory once it's economic to do so.

(flash memory scales down in price a lot better than HDs do).

 

[The Faceless Master]

anyone else get the feeling dopeyfish works for MS or something?

dopeyfish = bernie stolar

 

[DarienA]

Updates will be sent to your memory card or hard drive. Since LIVE is required to play (Silver or Gold) you still need a memory card.

Hmm ok... since I don't know how big the updates are that Square has been pushing I'll drop that.

fracturing the userbase = this game will only if you have this feature. You aren't fracturing the userbase by alleviating loadtimes. The games will run the same after loading with or without the hard drive.

FFXI doesn't require the HD on the Xbox 360? That goes against Square's spoken reason for bringing FFXI TO the 360... me am confused.

 

[Zeo]

i'll be buying two for the simple reason of it having Ad-hoc. No hub/router required for system linking. sick.

You could not be more of a tool.

 

[Argyle]

i'll be buying two for the simple reason of it having Ad-hoc. No hub/router required for system linking. sick.

Uhh, every USB wifi adapter I have ever seen supports ad-hoc. Isn't it part of the wi-fi specification?

You know, at first, I was thinking, "well, fuck the hard drive, I'll just get the barebones system. If they allow me to save to and stream music from a PC, that's fine, I have a LAN with network shares and lots of HDD space, it shouldn't be a problem. Wireless controllers aren't that big a deal, especially if I have to pay $32 (!!!) more to make it rechargeable. I've got a perfectly fine Xbox HD pack so I shouldn't need video cables, and the remote would be nice but I can do without."

But then I see shit like "you need a hard drive or memory card for a Live account" and I wonder if that's absolutely true. Plus they fucking changed the AV output connector! I haven't preordered my X360 yet and I was thinking of doing it this week...but now, I'm still trying to decide if it's worth it.

This just smells like a colossal fuck-up on MS's part, IMHO...

 

[Amir0x]

If Sony was really smart, they'd include a ~30gig hard drive in every launch unit at, say, $350, but with the stipulation that no individual game use more than, say, a gig of swap space, so that later on, they replace the HD with 2 gigs of flash memory once it's economic to do so.

(flash memory scales down in price a lot better than HDs do).

What, so Sony could lose 250 per unit?

 

[DarienA]

Here's a question for yer...

Will Xbox360 still be backward compatible if it doesn't have a harddrive?

No.

What, so Sony could lose 250 per unit?

If projected they think it equals a larger # of sales which means overall they'll make it back, why not?

 

[Funky Papa]

The only reason the $399 SKU can even be considered a "deal" is because MS is raping you on peripheral pricing. Hardly a "deal" in that context . . . that said Sony will do the same thing.

That's not true, the big pack is not cheap but is not expensive either. Just the headset and the remote make the price.

Now, buying the peripherals separately... God, they are dumb.

 

[Kuroyume]

 

[Razoric]

• Memory Unit (64 MB) ($39.99, 34.99 Euros, 22.99 GBP)

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol

I can get a 256 MB Mem Stick for that.

Oh man this is a great thread guys. You've made my morning.

 

[SolidSnakex]

psyborgs should be worried as well i mean do you think Sony will be cheaper in any aspect?

Sony's now in the position that they're best at, the position of countering someones mistake.