Lance McDonald shares details of the art brief given to Bluepoint ahead of Demon's Souls remake
- Thread starter cormack12
- Start date
Dirk Benedict
Gold Member
If true, idiots.
PauloRoberto
Member
Does make sense, Demon Souls REmake is not just a remasker, it needs to have a distinctive visual appeal (i dare to say, i really liked the fact that you can see the 'world' barely holding togheter and almost 'melting' into fog :-D)
Klosshufvud
Member
Absolute morons. Demon's Souls rough and lower detailed setting is what gives the imagination a drive to fill in the blanks. DS3 and DeS are completely different in mood and atmosphere.
Doesn't surprise me, these guys also royally missed the point of SoTC so it was given. Will just give even more fuel to DeS purists who hated the remake.
Doesn't surprise me, these guys also royally missed the point of SoTC so it was given. Will just give even more fuel to DeS purists who hated the remake.
NuclearDiarrhea
Member
"They actually say that the original Demon's Souls design contradicts the backstory of the world"
Imagine thinking you know more about the world of a souls game than Miyazaki.
Imagine thinking you know more about the world of a souls game than Miyazaki.
Last edited:
sankt-Antonio
Banned
Or PS3 technical limitations. DeSo would look completely different if he made it on PS5.
Angry_Megalodon
Member
And that's why they also screwed up the soundtrack. Fucking clowns.
hyperbertha
Member
Either way they failed. Remake's art direction is borderline amateurish.
FeralEcho
Member
So what you're saying is purists would hate Miyazaki's work as well if he did that while not publicly stating he's the one actually doing it. Predictable.
Purists are embarassing. Demon's Souls Remake looks incredible and while there are sections of the game I prefer in the OG,most of the game is way more impressive and better looking even artistically than the og. And I played Demon's Souls before it even was ported to the west.
Angry_Megalodon
Member
There's a technological leap that makes up for the lack of artistic vision, but the soundtrack is heavily downgraded due to that mindset. The wording is unfortunate, anyway. The suggestion that they understand Demons Souls better than Miyazaki is mental.
Roman Empire
Member
And that explains why the Remake is inferior in every way to the original beyond the technology.
FeralEcho
Member
I agree that them saying that is dumb as hell and baffling but it shouldn't suddenly take away from the acomplishments of the remake,seeing some posts in here,some person that has never played this before would literally think it's some garbage game.
In regards to the ost they did majorly fuck up Maiden Astraea's theme which is my fav one in the og but in general the boss themes were well done I felt,Flamelurker and King Allant's themes felt like big upgrades to me.
You can't tell me this doesn't give you goosebumps
Last edited:
For the sountrack of Demon's Souls remake they used the same orchestra as Bloodborne that Miyazaki considers his magnum opus/favourite game along with the first Dark Souls. There is no suggestion that they understand Demon's souls better than Miyazaki but Demon's souls OST (before souls games had any kind of budget) might not necessarily be what Miyazaki favours either. Especially as he liked Bloodborne and that had the same score producer and orchestra as Demon's Souls remake.
I think you are always going to get something to complain about when there is some change in a remake but nobody calls the music in Bloodborne bad for example because there is nothing it 'replaced'. Demon's Soul remake's OST is still great.
Sebastian1295
Member
Last edited:
Klosshufvud
Member
Nah it is completely devoid of the chilling atmosphere of the original. Bland ass Unreal remake of little value. Several key moments, including the mental degradation of Wander are lost.
Bluepoint are technically competent but artistically completely tasteless. They never ponder on what is lost when more detail is added. They never ponder on why a game of rough edges and lighting may create a whole different atmosphere than one of high detail and grounded lighting. It reflects the contrast between Japanese devs who favor atmosphere and western who favor realism. It comes with dire consequences when the latter applies its philosophy on the former's works.
Hudo
Member
If this is true, then Bluepoint really needs to stay away from any other From Software game forever. Saying that the visual design of OG Demon's Souls contradicts the story is the most retarded thing I have heard in quite a while.
Last edited:
Klosshufvud
Member
Basically Bluepoint "remakes" is what you get when you apply Digital Foundry mentality to works of art. The studio is better off remaking games like Uncharted and Gears of War.
od-chan
Member
Business as usual in the West, sadly.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
You'll never be able to reason with people who think that they're absolutely right without any thought to context.
So many remakes suffer because people feel like everything should be 1:1 but they don't consider some design choices are based specifically around technical limitations or resource limitations and weren't the creators intent.
When you look at the artbooks and such they can vary completely from the actual design of the game because they couldn't get it to work or didn't have the time.
People take PS3 games or earlier where their mind filled in specific blanks and they have a picture of how something should look on PS5 and if it deviates from that, they'll be furious. Not saying they aren't entitled to their opinions, but you should always hear out the developer as to why a change was made and see if it adds up.
For example, I don't like the changes in FF7 Remake for the voice cast. They didn't change the Japanese voice cast, but I don't know if maybe some of the voices simply didn't fit anymore or if there was a financial issue around getting people like Mandy Moore. It seems that Japanese developers don't have a whole lot of respect for western voice actors. Then there is the decision to make it an Action game and I heard their explanation for that, and I don't like it, but at least I heard them out.
SoTC remake slaps what lol. That game is a masterpiece of a remake done by them.
Not a perfect game, but you'll never convince some people that this wasn't a great job. There's this great thing about remakes, you can just choose not to buy them. I haven't purchased Rebirth, because it's super low on my priority list.
Last edited:
FeralEcho
Member
I guess not enough blinding bloom and piss filters in the Remake to keep the "atmosphere" of the textureless world of the PS2 era intact for the purists.SoTC remake slaps what lol. That game is a masterpiece of a remake done by them.
Some of the takes in this thread are incredible lmao
I understand finding some artistic decisions better than the others but plain dismissing a remake as good as SOTC or Demon's Souls because it doesn't have same bloom or colour filters as 2 or 3 generations ago when those exact things were used to hide the limitations of the hardware back then just to keep the same exact atmosphere is insane to me.
People will find anything to complain about...
Pasta la Vista
Member
Bluepoint shined when they were doing remasters, their remakes have all been soulless and completely missed the mark. Maybe one day they will actually create something on their own.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
They ruined Demons Souls, RUINED...
I prefer they keep the From Software Enchanted Arms Boss
___________
Pls, pick copium guys....
I'm failing at the internet today because I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not
od-chan
Member
He's trying to be clever by comparing two still images and ignoring the actual point, which is obviously a blatantly stupid thing to try, but so is the Remake and there's enough people defending that too.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Does the comparison change in motion? What exactly is your argument there? Clearly the character design is improved in the remake. That you can't even admit that suggests your blinded by bias.
Hudo
Member
That's actually a fairly poignant way of putting it.
Look at Kotaku talking about ps2 bloom like it was some artistic masterpiece.
od-chan
Member
For starters that the Vanguard Demon isn't that big of an issue, so citing that is already in bad faith (or highly retarded) to begin with.
Gaiff
SBI’s Resident Gaslighter
It plays much better, which is what matters most.
I swear, From fans are something else. There are changes where they missed the mark. One of the most egregious ones is that your character emits sounds such as footsteps in soul form when they're not supposed to. In the original when you get struck in soul form, it also produces an ethereal noise. However, in the remake, there is no difference. That's a big deal because there a very good reason as to why a soul makes no noises.
I get that the alterations of the OST and art are seldom for the best, but the frame rates, animations, combat feel, and menus are all far superior. They also even gave us the Sodden Ring for Swamp of Sorrow. Also, the visuals being much more polished and advanced make it easier to tell things apart. In the original (and still in Souls games to this day), the textures are so low-quality that things sometimes seem to fuse together. Depraved Chasm is especially bad there. It makes it harder to navigate.
Still, despite its shortcomings, the remake simply plays better than the PS3 one. Unless you're playing on RPCS3 at 60fps, no way would you choose the OG over this one.
Last edited:
He's being sarcastic. Vanguard in original DS was just from software recycling a boss design from Enchanted Arms, a previous From software game.
Last edited:
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
At worst you should be able to say that while you don't like everything in the remake it does make improvements.
Then you can maybe cite examples of things where you think are specifically worse and provide pictures or video.
One of the most disingenuous things people do is they make vague statements that others can rally around, because more specific statements will lead to support evaporating.
There are absolutely people that will say this Vanguard Demon was better in the original, but the vast majority of people particularly unbiased people would say otherwise.
I'm not a huge fan of FF7 Remake, but visually, yeah, there's obviously nothing that they got wrong here compared to the original game. It's a PS1 game.
Demon's Souls doesn't change the gameplay and improves the visuals.... maybe some changes to music that you don't appreciate and some changes in art direction that you don't fully understand the reasoning for, but most people think the game is a masterpiece of a remake. Reviewed well by reviewers and users a like.
od-chan
Member
And honestly, I don't know from the top of my head which Vanguard Demon I prefered. Because yes, sure, the visual fidelity is higher and technically that's already an improvement. I just don't remember the fight itself too much from the Remake, so I don't recall how the fight overall looked and felt in terms of animations, music and all the things that make up such a fight.
Two things can be true at once. It's a great remake and deserves the reviews in general, though obvl we might slightly disagree on detailed scores. But in many ways it's inferior to the original.
It's ultimately a trade off. Yes 60fps and less loading times are nice, for the people who can't emulate, sure.
You really think DeS would look the way it does if From made it for ps4 or ps5?
Unknown?
Member
Uhhh pretty sure he's saying From said this. The Japanese wanted Bluepoint to change more stuff but Bluepoint didn't want to change more than they had to.
Hudo
Member
If that's true, then that is even weirder. Because OG Demon's Souls has a surreal look to it exactly because of its "barrenness", imho. And it fits the whole premise perfectly. Of a kingdom fallen into darkness. It's kinda like a fantasy post-apocalyptic setting, since it's set after they've fucked themselves with the abuse of magic and the subsequent "dark fog" that appeared and made everything gloomy and removed some of the "realness" of everything it engulfed. To me, it always seemed intentional and fitting. The remake's added detail and added geometry to Boletaria (like additional scaffolding etc.) makes the place feel more "real" and contradicts what the game is going for, imho. Now, if you tell me that the remake is the "intended" version, then I don't know what to say. I just keep playing the OG.
Last edited:
Unknown?
Member
You're going to get a Blasto remake, AND you're going to like it. 20M sold.
Mibu no ookami
Demoted Member® Pro™
Another remake? This was 4 years ago... what are you talking about?
DownLikeBCPowder
Member
Demon's Souls aesthetic was amazing. More attempts to fix what isn't broken.
Mr Moose
Gold Member
Klosshufvud
Member
Those effects did more than just "hide the limitations of the hardware" though but you're going to keep being a disingenous ass the whole thread no matter. Fact is that SOTC remake in particular fails to remake the original's uniquely desolate and depressing atmosphere. Bluepoint basically took the easiest, laziest route possible by adding modern textures and lighting to scenes hand crafted to convey a mood not of realism but of certain bitterness. This isn't talentful. It's not a proper translation of the original work. The fact that they "fixed" Wander's movement is another sure sign how hard they missed the point of the original. SOTC remake is depressing in that it also reflects how much we've lost in the confusing age of modern rendering methods and high detailed textures. Maybe SOTC simply could not be made today, who knows. But playing The Last Guardian and I spotted the same excellence by the team on PS4 hardware as they did on PS2. So it's not neccessarily a fault of technology. It's lack of artistic understanding and talent.
if video game fans would rate Salvador Dali's work, they would surely praise a "remake" that fixed that the painter's rougher aspects to convey as much detail and realism as possible.
Josemayuste
Member
Majima Everywhere System
Member
Without From over their shoulder, I think we got the best outcome possible.
The thing had to be pretty safe and impressive looking, as it could get rejected pretty quickly by the From faithful. I know we all rather have avant-garde, low poly, color graded, 2000s era 3d model stuff somehow modernized, but it was supposed to be a PS5 launch graphical showpiece.
The safest thing to do was to blend the direction of From visuals (DS 3) with the source. I played both in their day (less Demons, but I spent hours in every area) and I was very happy with the quality the remake.
The thing had to be pretty safe and impressive looking, as it could get rejected pretty quickly by the From faithful. I know we all rather have avant-garde, low poly, color graded, 2000s era 3d model stuff somehow modernized, but it was supposed to be a PS5 launch graphical showpiece.
The safest thing to do was to blend the direction of From visuals (DS 3) with the source. I played both in their day (less Demons, but I spent hours in every area) and I was very happy with the quality the remake.