Same I quit League because of toxic cunts, especially this one guy called Meteorain. Abuse after abuse, hatred after hatred, and I was not even in his lane! I had it rough 2v1 lane, was out numbered but it was the only lane I was told to go. Of course I'm gonna die more then him.
League of Legends has over 100 million monthly active players, ~8x larger than Dota 2
- Thread starter Interfectum
- Start date
Same I quit League because of toxic cunts, especially this one guy called Meteorain. Abuse after abuse, hatred after hatred, and I was not even in his lane! I had it rough 2v1 lane, was out numbered but it was the only lane I was told to go. Of course I'm gonna die more then him.
QuantumSquid
Member
It's a pretty good game with some serious flaws in terms of the progression from levels 1-30, but if you have the free time and the interest in the genre to get over that hurdle, playing the game with friends is an absolute blast.
Dota 2 is also a great game but it's much more complicated, so I wouldn't recommend it for those new to the MOBA genre.
To those of you who quit League because of toxic players, I completely understand. My strategy for enjoying the game when toxic people are also in the match is to mute them immediately and focus on my own play.
Dota 2 is also a great game but it's much more complicated, so I wouldn't recommend it for those new to the MOBA genre.
To those of you who quit League because of toxic players, I completely understand. My strategy for enjoying the game when toxic people are also in the match is to mute them immediately and focus on my own play.
Orochinagis
Member
Never ever saw me playing LoL. tried to play it alone and was utterly boring and confusing, until two years ago my friends wanted me to play it again and huh I am trying to get gold screaming salt all over the place.
Fun game, toxic players and the more you play the complex it gets, good for them and the community
Fun game, toxic players and the more you play the complex it gets, good for them and the community
Abilidebob
Member
Did you even read that link? The Majors prize pool is NOT crowdfunded. There's a base prize that comes directly from Valve and that's it.
I see this sentiment a lot and feel like it's pretty misleading; if someone's goal is to play Dota 2 then I'd never suggest starting with another game in the genre. Just play Dota.
Does 343 or Valve not fund tournaments across the year as well? I was specifically just talking about the "super bowl" of their game. I know nothing of esports so bear with me but comparing it to other events like boxing or UFC, the size prize pool or individual payout is a general metric of how well an event did. League is infinity more popular than Halo so does Riot support teams with like a salary? Do most teams make their most money from ad revenue? Most players are dressed like NASCAR drivers, does Riot get a cut from that too?
I'm honestly curious since the sports leagues I follow (NFL & NBA), the league itself is owned by the teams. Since Riot is the sole owner of LoL how do most of these teams make their money to compete and practice? I usually don't care too much for epsorts but LoL having 100 million players makes me really curious how much money riot is pulling in from the esports side.
No two Dota games have ever been alike for me. The sheer amount of permutations that decide how a match can go are what give it the replay value that leads to so many steam profiles showing easily >2000 hours in the game.
Kotetsu534
Member
I can understand not liking LoL, or preferring Dota 2, but I think if you take a step back it is good to see that a complex multiplayer game with a steep learning curve can be massive. That games don't need to be simplified down to the level of recent Call of Duty campaigns to be played by millions.
Hush. Everyone knows that a feature that carried over as a result of being a mod couldn't possibly be a good one. Such a game is literally doomed to be bad, duhhh. /s
LordRaptor
Member
As opposed to all those highly successful single player console titles filling the software charts and driving PSN / XBL revenue
Wok
Member
Except that most people do not play it as a strategy game. You start to get interesting games in Dota2 solo queue when you reach the 60% percentile (or the Very High Skill bracket). I cannot talk about non-solo queue because my friends do not play Dota2, they only know LoL.
Stone Ocean
Member
"Slight variation" is one hell of an understatement. Matches in online games pan out very differently from each other, specially in games like this with multiple characters with unique abilities.
I can only speak to League, as I do watch and enjoy Dota 2 but am not heavily invested in the scene.
Riot pays each team a total salary. The minimum a team pays each player is $12,500 a split, which is half a year. While this is low, players do not pay for housing, transportation to the matches, food (but do pay for things like going out to eat on their own, otherwise they are provided food), or game equipment. The team is the one that provides all that, and Riot pays them a certain amount to cover those costs, as well as pays for things like a coach and manager. Note that that $12,500 is the minimum and is the amount kicked in by Riot only. Some teams also pay their players a salary on top of that, and I believe Riot also pays more to higher caliber teams. So while some lower tier teams are paid the minimum, many players make six figures a year. This does not include prize money, but prize money pales in comparison to Dota 2. Also many stream, and a few of the top tier players can pull in another six figures just from streaming.
The LCS, or League of Legends Championship Series, is the league all these players play in. This, at least in 2013, was not profitable for Riot. Riot views the LCS as a way to grow eSports and their game. It's advertising for League of Legends. While it may be profitable now or in the future, it was not the goal of Riot to make bank off of the eSports scene. Sure, they'd love to, and it may be a goal, but it is/was not THE goal.
I was talking about this
"And The International, a once-in-a-year event is the only way DOTA 2 can stay profitable."
Abilidebob
Member
And it was about the "concept" of Valve relying on people crowdfunding its tournament and taking 75% of the sales. You also linked that about the Majors when I said The International is the only crowdfunded event by Valve, which it is.
Son of a Witch
Member
It's not exactly like that. It's true that Riot gives teams money just for being on the LCS, of which they have to spend that minimum on salaries. The rest they can use on housing, staff, etc. They don't pay more to high caliber teams (they might get more money from icon sales, but it's not that much).
Every team on the LCS provides a salary on top of that. Lesser teams might put around 2k per month for each player, but higher tier teams pay much more and star players can easily get 10 times that.
Oh really? Huh. I thought Riot paid the higher tier teams more which would then turn into higher salaries. Thought I read that somewhere. Maybe not.
The Hamburglar
Banned
It sucks though. Tried to replay and it's not even fit to lace dota2 boots if it had boots or laces.
Stone Ocean
Member
Famous teams get more exposure which in turn gives them more sponsorships, better contracts and more stream viewers, which all naturally give them higher income.
Stone Ocean
Member
Nope. For example the Frankfurt ESL Major had specific treasure crates with items that were only available by those crates. Again 25% of all sales went to the Frankfurt Major. Same procedure applies to all Majors in Dota2 and CS:GO
Thanks a lot for writing this out. My interest in esports is slowing growing but mostly out of curiosity from the business side. Though I do find Starcraft 2 pretty fun to watch.
In 2014, 80% of the playerbase was in Asia
Probably CN >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SEA (combined) > EU > KR > NA > TW > BR > TR > OCE > RU > JPN
Funksplosion
Neo Member
China is a vast chunk last time I saw a break down, looks more like
1. China
2. EU (EU West and Nordic)
3. Korea
capitalCORN
Member
Korea has nowhere near the population to be third.
killatopak
Member
Well deserved.
Started playing dota in 2005 got bored cause I've been playing for like 10 years and there's little to no change over the years. There were some major things like new items or new heroes but they are so few and far inbetween. Dota 2 did nothing for me. Aside from some graphical change, the game was so incomplete that only recently that it had all the heroes from og dota ported to dota 2.
And then I tried out LoL cause my canadian cousin visited us and I was hanging out with him the whole time (i'm asian). Everything was new. I sucked but it was amazing to suck at the time. It's like finding a new toy. So many champs to play and learn everything was interesting. every game was like christmas. Every game was exciting cause I get to play new things.
Fast forward two years, my dota skills payed off and I'm at the top 1% in ranked. I don't feel the same way of boredom I feel for dota because there's constant patches and new things to look forward to. New metas and new champions become op all the time. Banehollow doesn't get to be op for a year because it took patches that long.
I don't know if I would feel the same way if I played lol first then dota but it doesn't matter since I'm having fun anyway. I might play dota again though. Monkey King might make me come back.
Started playing dota in 2005 got bored cause I've been playing for like 10 years and there's little to no change over the years. There were some major things like new items or new heroes but they are so few and far inbetween. Dota 2 did nothing for me. Aside from some graphical change, the game was so incomplete that only recently that it had all the heroes from og dota ported to dota 2.
And then I tried out LoL cause my canadian cousin visited us and I was hanging out with him the whole time (i'm asian). Everything was new. I sucked but it was amazing to suck at the time. It's like finding a new toy. So many champs to play and learn everything was interesting. every game was like christmas. Every game was exciting cause I get to play new things.
Fast forward two years, my dota skills payed off and I'm at the top 1% in ranked. I don't feel the same way of boredom I feel for dota because there's constant patches and new things to look forward to. New metas and new champions become op all the time. Banehollow doesn't get to be op for a year because it took patches that long.
I don't know if I would feel the same way if I played lol first then dota but it doesn't matter since I'm having fun anyway. I might play dota again though. Monkey King might make me come back.
They probably are. Game is absurdly huge in Korea and LoL NA servers are notoriously small player wise when compared to the other big regions.
Maybe Brazil could be 3rd instead. THey've got a huge internet population and the game is pretty big down there too.
capitalCORN
Member
No doubt the game is huge in Korea, the birthplace of modern esports, not to mentioned the undisputed strongest region for like an eternity now (Wasn't Taipei Assassins the last non Korean winners of Worlds?). I'm not sure how the SEA region is counted, but I can't imagine they track each nation separately. If it's aggregate, it would count for more.
Stone Ocean
Member
Brazil won't be third for a few years still
Abilidebob
Member
The ESL Frankfurt major isn't a Valve event though? Valve's DOTA 2 events are only the International and the seasonal majors that have a fixed prizepool of 3 million.
The Frankfurt Major was definitely a Valve event held at $3M with no additional prize pool from hats. Maybe the poster meant ESL Frankfurt? Those are third party events which did have scaling prize pools.
xeroborn55
Member
I read that interview with the 2 founders of Riot and totally agree with them - listening to your players and implementing changes that they request is such a key part of an ongoing 'game as a service' like LoL.
A significant reason why I ended up switching from SC2 to LoL was because of the way Riot patched, particularly how they communicated with the playerbase.
I no longer play, just don't have the time anymore but I def. enjoy watching the LCS games still.
I never had an issue with paying for Champions in LoL either. For how much enjoyment I got out of the game, 7 or 8 bucks for a new champion was a steal. I always figured if I play only 30 games with a champion I buy, that is ~30 hours of content for 8 dollars. Some champions I would play for hundreds of games easily.
A significant reason why I ended up switching from SC2 to LoL was because of the way Riot patched, particularly how they communicated with the playerbase.
I no longer play, just don't have the time anymore but I def. enjoy watching the LCS games still.
I never had an issue with paying for Champions in LoL either. For how much enjoyment I got out of the game, 7 or 8 bucks for a new champion was a steal. I always figured if I play only 30 games with a champion I buy, that is ~30 hours of content for 8 dollars. Some champions I would play for hundreds of games easily.
neurosisxeno
Member
Nobody going to question that disparity? Their game has seen a 50% increase in its playerbase over a few years and they just decided to keep quiet about it? Seems legit.
Abilidebob
Member
Yeah, he did say ESL. The ESL Frankfurt Major is different than Valve's Frankfurt major.
This is exactly what i was thinking. More teens calling me a noob.
The LoL community is notoriously toxic. Every online game has toxic players to some degree, but LoL is just sort of known for it. I am a big fan of LoL though, and enjoy watching the NALCS, to which I've watched nearly every NALCS game since 2012
I've always loved this guy (original splash art)
Garen is love, Garen is god. All hail the spinning god!
Stone Ocean
Member
100 million is a big milestone. 70-99 not so much.
neurosisxeno
Member
ESL handled the production for the Frankfurt Major. You're confusing ESL One Frankfurt and the Frankfurt Major (hosted by ESL and Valve).
Frankfurt Major official site with ESL logo at bottom. DotA 2 Gamepedia page which states;
Lying about your numbers publicly when the company that owns you is publicly traded.
Seems legit.
IronLich
Member
I dropped off a few years ago back in 2012. The glass ceiling hit, and I ended up losing more than I was winning, and basically steadied myself into playing support, since I didn't trust myself to consistently carry, but my passive playstyle caused the enemy support to overtake me.
I don't think I could go back today, especially now that Heroes of the Storm is so much more simple and quicker to play through a regular game that isn't just 10/20 to surrender in other games. Plus I like the idea of foregoing items and just buffing your core character.
That player count is absolutely insane. Other companies need to learn Riot's player retention secrets.
I don't think I could go back today, especially now that Heroes of the Storm is so much more simple and quicker to play through a regular game that isn't just 10/20 to surrender in other games. Plus I like the idea of foregoing items and just buffing your core character.
That player count is absolutely insane. Other companies need to learn Riot's player retention secrets.
Robot Carnival
Member
I got into DOTA2 from it's beta days don't before that I never touch MOBA before that. LOL seems kinda cool and I know a lot of people who play it, but the business model of paying for new characters and pay for those booster stuff just doesn't click with me so I never bother. that and the fact that DOTA2 just feels there's more depth in it. it's good that LOL get that kinda never thou. hope they keep doing the good work and improve the community.
neurosisxeno
Member
I just find it confusing that they went years without talking about player numbers, and in the meantime we've had HotS come out which undercuts LoL for the "accessible MOBA" and Overwatch recently which displaced LoL from #1 in PC Bangs for the first time in years, as well as several patches that were reviled by the community and several PR disasters from their staff--yet somehow they are on the up and up.
I don't see how any of that means the game has been on a decline playerbase. It's not like the entire playerbase is in Korea. In fact if others are to be believed there is more players and in the EU and CN than in KR.
chillybright
Banned
Well first of all they just told everyone about it.
Then I guess they have no reason to make a deal out of it. Everyone knows that League is so huge and is expanding even a few years back. It is like FIFA has no incentive to announce the number of teenagers who take soccer as a hobby.
Sr Kitsune
Member
Isn't Korea population only about 50 million or something? It does makes sense that EU is bigger than Korea. The split of the servers was more about the server load than the ping. (EUW/EUNE)
What does announcing their numbers every minor milestone accomplish?
Everyone knows they're number one (in popularity). Just look on any college campus and you'll see numerous people watching, playing, competing, forming clubs, etc.
If anything, bragging every 5 million players just opens up people to hate on it more. People don't like it when a successful competitor announces impressive numbers. Just look at this thread.
They're different things. ESL just happened to be the production company behind Valve's Frankfurt Major as well as the company putting on ESL One Frankfurt. It's confusing I guess, but they're definitely different tournaments.