Support NeoGAF

[Jhriad]

until you dont have both up or flash isnt up and an udyr, ww, olaf, nunu, amumu, rammus, malphite, xin, jarvan, etc come out of the jungle with red buff and rape you

Tear or Catalyst are dependent on the champ imo. I go tear quite a bit and honestly if I have more than 3 deaths at the end of the game it's a rare day. Seriously so long as you position yourself properly and don't play overly aggressive without good team support and/or map awareness tear is fine. Better in some cases since I honestly don't want catalyst/rod of the ages on some chars vs. certain team comps.

If it's a mana hungry caster, particularly one you want to be able to spam abilities with, tear > catalyst most of the time. If you're so out of position that you have to rely on the little health from catalyst frequently something isn't right.

 

[Mr. B Natural]

Why is Lich Bane never suggested for Zilean. It seems to have everything I would want in a ranged AP Support champion with escapability and the passive is nice so I'm not JUST doing damage through my time bombs from a distance. The 2 second cool down is perfect for my slow ass 1 hit per second. I can hop in and out every 2 seconds just like I seem to want to do anyway as Zilean.
I understand it's expensive. Wouldn't be number 1 on my list, but after I get a few good AP items, I can definitely mesh those items with Lich Bane late game. Or am I being a dummy dumb?

 

[SafeinSound]

So whats the consensus on Wukong? I've only played two games since his release.

 

[Drkirby]

boken doesn't even play orianna, don't listen to him. with full cdr on orianna, you'll be spamming your shit in team fights constantly. catalyst is nice, but it delays your deathcap, which boken always tells me to get on every single ap caster first. so I'm just listening to boken I guess.

boken is gonna boken.



I usually rush Deathfire for lolz, but I don't know how competitive that is. Tear - > Deathfire - > Deathcap. Veigar is also getting mean AP from his Q.

Nah, Veigar already has enough AP without rushing a Deathcap due to his Q, that I go for some Utility before getting the huge amounts of AP. Gunblade/Will of the Ancients for some Spell Vamp, Rod of Ages for some Health. Both of which do give some AP also.

 

[Mothman91]

So whats the consensus on Wukong? I've only played two games since his release.

Pretty good early game due to his passive his ability to harass. Has a unique way to avoid ganks and being killed. Seen most people build him tanky dps which is not surprising.

 

[Haly]

Tear sucks, rush Catalyst.

 

[SouthernDragon]

Nothing really. The best you can do is try to stay near minions, then when he tosses it, get back so it targets the minions.
You CAN outrun them, you will likely never do it though. They go pretty darn fast and far.

Move. Constantly. Get boots, and you can out run them.

 

[Blizzard]

Move. Constantly. Get boots, and you can out run them.

If you're in-lane as malphite I don't see how you can outrun them, even with level 2...? Plus they will be thrown behind you so you either run into the enemy champions and minions, or you get bombed.

 

[ItAintEasy]

Nah, Veigar already has enough AP without rushing a Deathcap due to his Q, that I go for some Utility before getting the huge amounts of AP. Gunblade/Will of the Ancients for some Spell Vamp, Rod of Ages for some Health. Both of which do give some AP also.

There is no such thing as enough ap.

 

[Pjodor]

Pretty good early game due to his passive his ability to harass. Has a unique way to avoid ganks and being killed. Seen most people build him tanky dps which is not surprising.

I think he looks fun to play, maybe I'll buy him with the volcanic skin, looks cool.

 

[Cindres]

Unlocked Vayne today, on my quest to just play nowt but AD Carries.

FUUCKING LOVE VAYNE.
Scored 17/5/13 in my first game against real people.

 

[Drkirby]

There is no such thing as enough ap.

I could just buy 5 Archangel Staffs and Deathcap, that would be much better, right?

 

[ItAintEasy]

I could just buy 5 Archangel Staffs and Deathcap, that would be much better, right?

4 angels, deathcap, and a deathfire grasp

 

[Achtius]

and a void staff

 

[Tomat]

Just tried out the Tribunal the other day for the first time.

7 cases agreed with and all I get is 35 IP? That's not even worth the time.

 

[Jhriad]

So whats the consensus on Wukong? I've only played two games since his release.

Okay early on but the longer the game goes he just becomes kind of irrelevant from what I've seen. He's tough to kill at least.

 

[Drkirby]

You are supposed to do it for the good feeling inside!

Spoiler

The feeling of utter shock at how dumb some people can be

 

[ItAintEasy]

and a void staff

No no no. That's too much utility and we can't have that.


In all honesty I've just started to play him and I feel depending on what time you have to go back or die or what have you I eaither go deathcap first or DFG. Fun champ for sure. Such a troll to the enemy ap carry.

 

[Tomat]

You are supposed to do it for the good feeling inside!

Spoiler

The feeling of utter shock at how dumb some people can be

Well yeah, it does feel good to actually help out, but still. You'd think Riot could throw us a bit more of a bone for doing part of their job.

 

[Drkirby]

No no no. That's too much utility and we can't have that.


In all honesty I've just started to play him and I feel depending on what time you have to go back or die or what have you I eaither go deathcap first or DFG. Fun champ for sure. Such a troll to the enemy ap carry.

I love even when you are about to loose a long game, you can still troll the enemy. "You have 4 Archangel Staffs Malz? Full health and You are going to win the game in 5 seconds? *Flash, ult* 'An enemy has been slain'"


I did find it funny how the enemy Malz was hiding the entire time till they were about to get the Nexus. We could of likely won, but our Monkey King pushed the wrong button leading to a chain of events that got the rest of the team killed. (He used his ult instead of making a Decoy)

 

[Achtius]

Why was I not informed that Nunu is fun XD

Karma, Orianna, and Nunu are now my favorite champions

 

[2th]

Why was I not informed that Nunu is fun XD

Karma, Orianna, and Nunu are now my favorite champions

cause he has 2 spells that do damage, one of them being his ult that is a channel spell that, while doing massive damage, will rarely ever do full damage because the other team, if they have any brains, will have flash or some sort of dash to escape, or a stun, silence, knock up, knock back, or fear to stop you.

 

[QisTopTier]

Anyone up for games soon?

 

[Achtius]

cause he has 2 spells that do damage, one of them being his ult that is a channel spell that, while doing massive damage, will rarely ever do full damage because the other team, if they have any brains, will have flash or some sort of dash to escape, or a stun, silence, knock up, knock back, or fear to stop you.

I can always wait until the first round of cc are over

Edit: On an unrelated notes, I still haven't figure out what seals I want for Karma and Orianna =/

atm I have: Greater Mark of Insight, Greater Quint of Insight, and Greater Glyph of Force.

Mana is only limited at the beginning so not sure if I want mana regen runes

 

[Jazzy Network]

Sup?

 

[Drkirby]

I can always wait until the first round of cc are over

Edit: On an unrelated notes, I still haven't figure out what seals I want for Karma and Orianna =/

atm I have: Greater Mark of Insight, Greater Quint of Insight, and Greater Glyph of Force.

Mana is only limited at the beginning so not sure if I want mana regen runes

Maybe MR or Cooldown?

Also, they put out an odd piece of lore today:
http://na.leagueoflegends.com/story/breaking-news-28-july-21-cle

 

[dimb]

Mana is only limited at the beginning so not sure if I want mana regen runes

Runes are most impactful during the early game, and spiral out into obsoleteness in the late game. I'm pretty sure you're supposed to rune up in accordance to what you need in the early game.

 

[EXGN]

:ic snip::
Sup?

HAHA, JRizzle versus JDizzle.

 

[Drkirby]

Enemy team just couldn't do anything:

Edit: Some stuff that may be implemented next patch

Morgana QoL Changes Preview:

Updated Morgana's autoattack to feel more responsive
Increased autoattack missile speed.
Base Armor increased to 17 from 15
Base Health increased to 418 from 403 (511@ level 1)
Base Health per level increased to 93 from 86
Base move speed increased to 310 from 300

Dark Binding
Cooldown reduced to 11 from 12

Tormented Soil
Mana cost reduced to 70/85/100/115/130 from 70/90/110/130/150

Lux

Updated Lux's autoattack to feel more responsive
Increased Lux's autoattack missile speed.
Light Binding: Cooldown reduced to 15/14/13/12/11 from 16/15/14/13/12

Nothing major, but it will help. I like how Lux best move IMO is getting a buff. Uchip will be pleased.

Also, it sounds like somewhere down the line Soraka's heal will be chagned to "More powerful, non-ap reliant heals on a longer cooldown, making CDR the master stat for full support with soft-tanky auras/actives."

So, I guess higher base heal, smaller AP ratio, and higher cooldown.

 

[red13th]

I hope after these buffs Morgana finally gets her revenge.

 

[Home]

ranked is brutal in this game. Im constantly sitting around 1400-1500 and I can't get any higher. I don't mind losing good games but it always seems to be for every 1 good game, theres 2-3 games where someone afks in the game or even afks during picks.

ugh.

 

[Retro_]

Tear sucks, rush Catalyst.

This


I can only think of two champs that actually have a chance at maxing it and benefit from using it

 

[dimb]

This


I can only think of two champs that actually have a chance at maxing it and benefit from using it

I just maxed out Manamune earlier today with Yorick. D:

Catalyst is a great opener just because it leads to Rod of Ages, which is one of the best starting items for any AP heavy champion and benefits from being picked up earlier rather than later.

 

[Neki]

This


I can only think of two champs that actually have a chance at maxing it and benefit from using it

I only get RoA on some specific heroes, and getting a catalyst for a Banshee's Veil is wasted early game. Tear -> Deathcap is the way to go. You complete tear into AA and you're a beast.

 

[Haly]

I only get RoA on some specific heroes, and getting a catalyst for a Banshee's Veil is wasted early game. Tear -> Deathcap is the way to go. You complete tear into AA and you're a beast.

You're a squishy beast I'll burst down in the time frame of one stun or silence.

 

[Neki]

You're a squishy beast I'll burst down in the time frame of one stun or silence.

too bad you'll never get close enough to do that. lux ain't afraid of no one. and even if you got that close to me, a catalyst certainly isn't going to save me from the opposing ad or ap carry. banshee's veil yes, but not a catalyst.

 

[2th]

too bad you'll never get close enough to do that. lux ain't afraid of no one. and even if you got that close to me, a catalyst certainly isn't going to save me from the opposing ad or ap carry. banshee's veil yes, but not a catalyst.

250 health does make a big difference, especially at early levels.

 

[Neki]

250 health does make a big difference, especially at early levels.

if I have 1000 more mana, I can harass the opposing enemy out of lane so I don't have to worry about being ganked because he'll always be low. orianna and lux are also masters of escape, they don't need the hp. if you're pushed out so far that you can't escape, then 250 health isn't going to save you.

 

[ItAintEasy]

I agree with Ultimoo's statement and as such is my ruling in this case we should all consider this subject a closed matter for the foreseeable future.

 

[Haly]

if I have 1000 more mana, I can harass the opposing enemy out of lane so I don't have to worry about being ganked because he'll always be low. orianna and lux are also masters of escape, they don't need the hp. if you're pushed out so far that you can't escape, then 250 health isn't going to save you.

You'd have 25 more mana if you just compare Catalyst with Tear of the Goddess. At 7 mp5, you'd need 140 seconds of regeneration to match one proc of Catalyst.

And the significance of the extra HP isn't from surviving ganks, it's from surviving the lane itself. If two Annies went up against each other mid, the one who can tank the full combo wins. The same is true for just about any fight between two AP champs.

EDIT: Even if you dodge all their harass and land all of yours, Tears is only marginally better because it's cheaper. But it'll still cost you a trip back to the fountain if you rush it immediately after getting enough money.

 

[Neki]

You'd have 25 more mana if you just compare Catalyst with Tear of the Goddess. At 7 mp5, you'd need 140 seconds of regeneration to match one proc of Catalyst.

And the significance of the extra HP isn't from surviving ganks, it's from surviving the lane itself. If two Annies went up against each other mid, the one who can tank the full combo wins. The same is true for just about any fight between two AP champs.

you must be forgetting the tear passive, which makes it one of the best caster items in the game. like I said, lux and orianna are very strong in lane with high mana because they're excellent at harassing, and excellent at escaping.

 

[ItAintEasy]

you must be forgetting the tear passive, which makes it one of the best caster items in the game. like I said, lux and orianna are very strong in lane with high mana because they're excellent at harassing, and excellent at escaping.

If you have problems with mana you might as well run clarity and we can all see upfront before the game starts how much of a noob you are.

How dare you buy an item that is good in the early game, and builds to a great item in the late game.

You should have your "Caster Card" removed and be refused service at local eateries.

I hope you rot in a full bar of mana you pretentious anime nurd.

 

[Haly]

you must be forgetting the tear passive, which makes it one of the best caster items in the game. like I said, lux and orianna are very strong in lane with high mana because they're excellent at harassing, and excellent at escaping.

By the time you've worked your way up to Archangel staff (after Deathcap and Boots I should imagine), mana should be a non-issue. If you're somehow depleting the entirety of your mana pool, you need to either tell your jungle to give you blue or get better at managing your mana.

Besides it's not like Catalyst/RoA doesn't give you mana as well. Until you get Archangel's staff, I'd say Catalyst is more efficient for lane staying power, because it gives you mana AND health.

 

[shintoki]

Psst, you need to spam skill shots. I just hit them.

*Smirk*

 

[Ladyboy101]

Tear sucks, rush Catalyst.

try Kassadin then make your statement

 

[Haly]

In the best case scenario, as in you're so uberpro and better than everyone else on your opponents team, then yes. Tear is better. Sometimes you don't need any HP at all because you're that much better than your opponent.

But if your opponent is just as good as you are, or better, then Catalyst is the superior choice, simply because it's a stronger laning item.

try Kassadin then make your statement

A lackluster AP hero, that doesn't have the nuking power of Annie/Brand/Malz, nor the Poke/Harass/Support power of Ori/Lux/Taric?

Yeah, Tear is fine for him, Catalyst is still better. In fact, most Kassadins I've seen forgo boots and just rush Catalyst, because they have R for mobility. Otherwise you get a squishy AP caster without significant early game damage.

 

[2th]

try Kassadin then make your statement

I live when mass is brought up. Melee range caster. The moment he gets in range you hut him with one stun or fear or silence and watch him melt. This is why you rush ROA on him. So he doesn't instantly explode.

 

[ItAintEasy]

Kass is one guy I actually used to get catalyst on because you have to be so close to do the most damage.

Now that he is a forgotten champion its just a mute point.

 

[Fjordson]

Seeing a lot of different opinions as far as building Leona: should I go all out tanky or save one slot for a Tri-Force?

I've literally never played a tank character of any kind so I apologize if this is a dumb question.

 

[Ladyboy101]

if you have to get in their face to do damage with kass, you are using him wrong. his R is there for a reason, hit and run! I never go negative with kass, even if everyone on my team is negative. his my main.
I say tear is better on Kass because his spells are very expensive in terms of mana. except his W spell, everything else consume over 100 mana, and he has no range attacks besides his spells, so he relies on spells to harrass or poke, mana regen is very important for him. ROA does not give you any mana regen. Kass is a hit and run champ, keep your distance then you dont need to worry about your HP.