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[Uchip]

MLG has been a huge mess for League of Legends. They only streamed a couple games and the client had big problems.

That said. Apparently the LOL stream already had more viewers/views then COD had for the ENTIRE last event MLG did.

http://twitter.com/#!/MLGSundance/status/107513432156291072

could be worse
could have been dota2's premiere showing

 

[Ikuu]

could be worse
could have been dota2's premiere showing

:lol, can't pick Morde or Yorick as they crash the game. Riot should spend some of that $5m on improving the client, but I'm sure they'll release some more skins instead.

 

[red13th]

:lol, can't pick Morde or Yorick as they crash the game. Riot should spend some of that $5m on improving the client, but I'm sure they'll release some more skins instead.

And 6300 IP champions.

 

[eznark]

God damn I love my MR Galio build against Annie. Stuns then she runs in while I lol at no damage, snap her with the ult and lead her with a blast. Easy kill. And since that's the only way Annie's know how to play, it works over and over and over!

 

[shintoki]

Some days you just run into assholes.

Troll Kennan first. 6 people had him ignored. BECAUSE HE COULDN'T TALK IN ANYTHING BUT CAPS AND KEPT BLAMING EVERYONE ELSE!

Followed by a game where people just don't fucking pay attention. Once again, getting blamed for I don't particularly know what. Our center was whining about my score or something. And my lane partner kept bitching about how I missed that one Q which caused him to get his third death. Even when you know their jungle is in our bush, you saw him, he just tried to get you. You have 1/3 HP. And you go right back in the center of the lane again.
Still won this one.

 

[SouthernDragon]

Reading that Anti-Fun list is so depressing.

These sections depressed me:

Power Without Gameplay
This is when we give a big benefit in a way that players don't find satisfying or don't notice. The classic example of this is team benefit Auras. In general, other players don't value the aura you give them very much, and you don't value it much either -- even though auras can win games. As a REALLY general example, I would say that players value a +50 armor aura only about twice as much as a +10 armor aura... Even though +50 is 5x better. Another example would be comparing a +10 damage aura to a skill that every 10 seconds gives flaming weapons that make +30 damage to all teammates next attack (with fire and explosions!). I am pretty sure that most players are WAY more excited about the fiery weapons buff, even though the strength is lower overall.

The problem with using a "power without gameplay" mechanic is that you tend to have to 'over-buff' the mechanic and create a game balance problem before people appreciate it. As a result, we tend to keep Auras weak, and/or avoid them altogether, and/or pair them on an active/passive where the active is very strong and satisfying, so that the passive is more strategic around character choice. For example, Sona's auras are all quite weak -- because at weak values they ARE appreciated properly.

wtf nooooo what is this crazy subjective reasoning

Burden of Knowledge
This is a VERY common pattern amongst hardcore novice game designers. This pattern is when you do a complex mechanic that creates gameplay -- ONLY IF the victim understands what is going on. Rupture is a great example -- with Rupture in DOTA, you receive a DOT that triggers if you, the victim, choose to move. However, you have no way of knowing this is happening unless someone tells you or unless you read up on it online... So the initial response is extreme frustration. We believe that giving the victim counter gameplay is VERY fun -- but that we should not place a 'burden of knowledge' on them figuring out what that gameplay might be. That's why we like Dark Binding and Black Shield (both of which have bait and/or 'dodge' counter gameplay that is VERY obvious), but not Rupture, which is not obvious.

What?! NO! If someone uses a DoT on me that triggers as I move, I'm going to figure it out 2 or 3 deaths later, AT MOST. If I notice that massive damage occurs as I move, I'm going to stop moving. For christ's sake have some faith in your player base.

Unclear Optimization
This is a more subtle one. when players KNOW they've used a spell optimally, they feel really good. An example is disintegrate on Annie. When you kill a target and get the mana back, you know that you used it optimally, and this makes the game more fun. On the other hand, some mechanics are so convoluted, or have so many contrary effects, that it is not possible to 'off the cuff' analyze if you played optimally, so you tend not to be satisfied. A good example of this is Proudmoore's ult in DOTA where he drops a ship. The ship hits the target a bit in the future, dealing a bunch of damage and some stun to enemies. Allies on the other hand get damage resistance and bonus move speed, but damage mitigated comes up later. Very complicated! And almost impossible to know if you have used it optimally -- do you really want your squishies getting into the AOE? Maybe! Maybe not... It's really hard to know that you've used this skill optimally and feel that you made a 'clutch' play, because it's so hard to tell, and there are so many considerations you have to make. On the other hand, with Ashe's skill shot, if you hit the guy who was weak and running, you know you did it right... You also know you did it right if you slowed their entire team... Ditto on Ezreal's skill shot.

???!! You know how I know if I've used it optimally? IF WE WON THAT TEAMFIGHT THAT'S HOW I KNOW If we didn't, and my ult was supposed to be the deciding factor, then BAM. And if my ult wasn't supposed to be the deciding factor, why was I using it at the point then? ararrhghghg

Fun Fails to Exceed Anti-Fun
Anti-fun is the negative experience your opponents feel when you do something that prevents them from 'playing their game' or doing activities they consider fun. While everything useful you can do as a player is likely to cause SOME anti-fun in your opponents, it only becomes a design issue when the 'anti-fun' created on your use of a mechanic is greater than your fun in using the mechanic. Dark Binding is VERY favorable on this measurement, because opponents get clutch dodges just like you get clutch hits, so it might actually create fun on both sides, instead of fun on one and weak anti-fun on another. On the other hand, a strong mana burn is NOT desirable -- if you drain someone to 0 you feel kinda good, and they feel TERRIBLE -- so the anti-fun is exceeded by the fun. This is important because the goal of the game is for players to have fun, so designers should seek abilities that result in a net increase of fun in the game. Basic design theory, yes?

I dunno, I feel pretty damn amazing whenever I know their caster has 0 mana, it lets me know that I've contributed to my team in a meaningful way by removing a source of CC and damage burst from the fight. Why are so many of these conjectures based on SUBJECTIVE measures?

False Choice -- Deceptive Wrong Choice
This is when you present the player with one or more choices that appear to be valid, but one of the choices is just flat wrong. An example of this is an ability we had in early stages recently. It was a wall like Karthus' wall, but if you ran into it, it did damage to you, and then knocked you towards the caster. In almost every case, this is a false choice -- because you just shoudln't go there ever. If it was possible for the character to do a knockback to send you into the wall, it wouldn't be as bad. Anyhow, there's no reason to give players a choice that is just plain bad -- the Tomb of Horrors (original module) is defined by false choices -- like the room with three treasure chests, all of which have no treasure and lethal traps.

??? Terrible example. No one is going to think running into an enemy wall is a good idea, and it shouldn't be!

 

[eznark]

Has any official Dominion timeframe been announced? During the tournament at GamesCom one of the commentators said that it would be released right after PAX.

 

[Ark]

Make sure to join the Neogaf channel and set it to auto-join on startup if you'd like to get in games with fellow Gaffers. What're your in-game names? I play an AI game or two a day at least.

My EU-West name is TheConcierge.

 

[Blackface]

Has any official Dominion timeframe been announced? During the tournament at GamesCom one of the commentators said that it would be released right after PAX.

At gamescon they said very very shortly after pax.

 

[Achtius]

What are the chances you fight the SAME team again two times in a row?

 

[Ark]

What are the chances you fight the SAME team again two times in a row?

I presume it's totally possible. Back in my WoW days we would sometimes get the same teams again when doing ranked arena.

Although obviously this isn't WoW

 

[SouthernDragon]

Exceedingly low in this game, considering almost everyone is playing 5V5 standard or ranked. There's not much room for variation there.

 

[Neki]

me and uchip fought a team in 15 mins, requeued, and got the same guys, lol.

 

[markot]

Hmm.

So you dont get any heroes to begin with >.<?

Is Teemu good >.>?

 

[Achtius]

we just fight the same team twice. same result. we lost.

 

[Blizzard]

Hmm.

So you dont get any heroes to begin with >.<?

Is Teemu good >.>?

Teemo can be fun, but the general impression is that he's not very "good" since there are better champions.

I'm bad, but here's my advice: If you are starting out, try the free champions each week. That should give you ~5 new champions a week, and then if you really liked one of them, you can buy them at the end of the week if you have enough IP saved up. If you don't like them, you'll get new champions next week etc. That way is better than buying champions without playing them and then discovering you don't like them.

Also, I had a 350-minion kill game today. That may be my record with Caitlyn, but I imagine I need to get 400+ before I can be considered decent.

 

[markot]

He's so cute though!

 

[Achtius]

Would anyone recommand Irelia if I like playing Jarvan? I want a backup just in case jarvan is taken.

 

[FutureZombie]

Teemo is really good late game. He sucks at the beginning.

 

[Achtius]

Teemo is really good late game. He sucks at the beginning.

teemo is anti-carry
blind shot ftw

 

[markot]

I only played one match with him so far, but he is kinda tough till you at least get the mushrooms.

But I do like him >.<

 

[goober]

this game work for anybody? -_-

 

[eznark]

this game work for anybody? -_-

working for me

 

[markot]

7000 player queue >.>

 

[Kozak]

Tried a full tank team with 3 other gaffers and a random person (he's nunu). Some people were playing WAY too defensively (enemy chasing me when I close to dying, but they didn't come out from the tower to cc them; nor did they leave the tower to kill someone who is nearly dead). There is a line between playing defensively and never leaving your tower. There is no way we could of win if we just stay by the towers, it would give them full dragon and baron control. And if you are not leona, you need to be tanky dps not full tank, or else we would just be taking damage.

On a separate note, after looking at the stats, I am really surprise that Riot didn't include 'damage dealt to champions'. I assume that 'Damage Dealt' includes minion, neutral monsters, champion and turrets, but i don't really find this particularly interesting; it would be much better if it actually state the amount of damage dealt to enemy champions.

Yo. Pretty sure it was Nunus fault that you guys lost.

 

[goober]

okay, got the game to work. anyone able to get the runes from razer?

 

[Achtius]

I did, took 1 day for them to send me the redemption code

 

[Blackface]

okay, got the game to work. anyone able to get the runes from razer?

stuck on processing request for an hour for me.

 

[markot]

Anyone else having trouble starting games >.>?

 

[Blizzard]

Yo. Pretty sure it was Nunus fault that you guys lost.

He was the only one actually killing (backdooring) towers. Unfortunately with the new scoreboard stuff, you don't SEE how many buildings each player killed. Why Rayven, why?

 

[Achtius]

You can, just go to grid tab

 

[Ferga]

Yo. Pretty sure it was Nunus fault that you guys lost.

gunblade lol

 

[Blizzard]

You can, just go to grid tab

But it's not advertised like before, so everyone will just ignore that part of the game. ;-;

 

[FutureZombie]

How come I never see Zeal as a recommended item? It has 8% movement speed, 20% attack speed, and 10% crit. Plus it's cheap. Isn't it desirable to get that movement speed?

 

[shintoki]

How come I never see Zeal as a recommended item? It has 8% movement speed, 20% attack speed, and 10% crit. Plus it's cheap. Isn't it desirable to get that movement speed?

Zeal builds into Phantom Dancer, its recommended many times.

 

[FutureZombie]

Zeal builds into Phantom Dancer, its recommended many times.

I guess I've just never seen it on my champion recommend bars. Speed seems so important; seems like it would be useful for anyone except a mage.

 

[dimb]

How come I never see Zeal as a recommended item? It has 8% movement speed, 20% attack speed, and 10% crit. Plus it's cheap. Isn't it desirable to get that movement speed?

Most characters build for the long term. Sinking 900 gold into an item that isn't going to really be that useful mid/late game is just hamstringing yourself. Build Zeal because you want Phantom Dancers for attack speed, consider the move speed a bonus.

He was the only one actually killing (backdooring) towers. Unfortunately with the new scoreboard stuff, you don't SEE how many buildings each player killed. Why Rayven, why?

Probably for scoreboard parity with Dominion if I had to guess.

 

[Achtius]

It should be illegal to have both sivir and eve in the same team. This picture nails it for the k/d of both those character in the last game I was in, except it wasn't intentional feeding; it was because those two champion are bad and they should feel bad. not even the tron skin can redeem that fact.

But the good news is that of the two jarvan in the game, I was the better one

 

[JWong]

Anyone else having trouble starting games >.>?

I got into a game with like an extra 30 seconds on the select hero screen.

Of course, it made up for a 20 minute feed-me game where my Annie was two shotting everyone.

 

[SouthernDragon]

Would anyone recommand Irelia if I like playing Jarvan? I want a backup just in case jarvan is taken.

Yes and no. Jarvan does less damage, but has better survivability options. Irelia does a lot more damage, but has less survivability. She's also harder to play, in my opinion.

 

[markot]

So, there are people botting in this game >.>?

 

[SouthernDragon]

Yep.

 

[Steaks]

Irelia has some of the best sustain in the game and the near inability to be CCed. I'd consider that about as good as a shield and a blink in terms of survivability.

Edit: Discounting other subtle things of course They are both pretty tanky though.

 

[markot]

Yep.

No way to kick em? Its kinda lame in a 5 person game to have 20% of the team be worse than useless....

 

[SouthernDragon]

Not that I know of. You can report them. They are exceedingly rare at higher levels, though.

 

[Kozak]

He was the only one actually killing (backdooring) towers. Unfortunately with the new scoreboard stuff, you don't SEE how many buildings each player killed. Why Rayven, why?

Who cares, he bought gunblade.

 

[Blackface]

How come I never see Zeal as a recommended item? It has 8% movement speed, 20% attack speed, and 10% crit. Plus it's cheap. Isn't it desirable to get that movement speed?

Zeal is an item that builds into a couple really good items. But it's not a "final piece" item. Much like a brutalizer, phage, sheen etc..

 

[Haly]

Zeal is a late game item, it's never really useful by itself during the early game on any hero. In contrast both Sheen and Brutalizer are cheap choices for early game damage that provide a hefty boost in damage to many AD/Hybrid champions. By the time you would actually want to build Zeal, it will only be to turn it into a Phantom Dancer or Triforce.

Also you shouldn't put too much stock into the recommended item builds. They work, but a lot of them have iffy choices that seem to be different for the sake of being different.

 

[dimb]

Zeal is a late game item, it's never really useful by itself during the early game on any hero.

Let me tell you about how I shatter backboards on Yi.

 

[Neki]

Let me tell you about how I shatter backboards on Yi.

lemme just throw an exhaust on you son and you'll be useless in no time.