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League of Legends |OT| Free to play Dota clone (PC)
- Thread starter blitz64
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Legato.Reborn-
Member
Archie said:
Gotta save that smite, bro.
I said it discourages movement. Also, movement in 5 minutes? You mean movement after the jungle finishes red, and mid is almost 6? Yeah, I guess that's when the lanes start moving because everyone is nice and ready and feel like they can actually get a gank going.JWong said:
Irelia Build:
Sapphire + 2 Pots
First trip back:
Build Sheen + Boots + as many components of Brutalizer as possible
Second trip back:
Merc treads, finish Brutalizer, make Avarice if possible
Third trip back:
Finish Youmuu's ghostblade. If I need more damage I start on phage, if I need health I start on catalyst.
Fourth trip back:
Zeal/Negatron Cloak
Fifth trip back:
Triforce/Banshees, start building which ever one I didn't build earlier
30-40 minutes in:
Merc Treads, Youmuu's, Triforce, Banshees
The only time I hit 5 items is when building Triforce, and that's only because it has so many constituent items.
Not direct counter, but global ults wouldn't have been nerfed with the existence of scrolls.
Towers provide pacing to the game, serve as a resource and an early deterrent but not a perfect one.
Not even close to true. Unless by anyone you mean "all viable mid heroes". You know what qualifies a champ as vianle mid? Good ganking ability!
I said competitively. As in, 1800-2000 ELO or higher.
What? They are mechanically the same. Move closer to a weak creep in order to kill them. Do you know of some magical way for a hero to deny without moving closer to the target?
Whether or not I'm ready to quit before the game starts is not the point here. Players should start out on an even footing. Masteries/Runes/Summoner spells work counter to this.
There is no such thing as the perfect team. A well rounded team will lack as much pushing power as a dedicated pushing team, less aoe than an aoe one, less harass than a poke team.
I disagree then. Part of the fun of Dota is finding out ways to bring out a hero's full potential with items.
Sorry, unless I'm missing on something you're not on any of the top competitive rosters for LoL. Your personal experience is inconsequential when it comes to judging overall trends in the meta game.
I've had <20 minute games. They were either: Smurfstomps, someone on the other team left, clear imbalance in player skill. Whenever I have one of those games I don't really consider them a win.
Also:
http://i.min.us/ibtDNH0HOdF4d5.png
Not as much as someone like 2th but I've been playing other stuff in the meantime.
If it's not 1800-2000+ or some kind of large scale tournament, it's low level. I'm a competent LoL player, I understand the game and most of the champions. But I have no illusions that whatever I'm doing can be considered anything but low-level. In SC2, a Silver player can understand what goes on in Masters, even if they're not necessarily able to duplicate it.
First, the term metagame is very nebulous when talking about videogames. Rarely do people use the formal definition and metagame becomes a broad term for "anything that's not necessarily part of the game".
The definition you're using, as far as I can tell is: "Stuff that happens before the actual game"
The definition I'm using is: "Strategies, tactics and techniques developed by the playerbase in order to bettre understand and play the game."
Also if you went into the SC2 thread and said "SC2 has no metagame" you'd get laughed out.
Second, don't compare EVE PvP to something arena-based like LoL/Dota. They are too vastly different to draw any reasonable conclusions. One is completely persistent, far more dpendant on position in local and node space, unlimited in potential number of players, has an economy and is ongoing 24/7. The other is limited to 10 or less players a side, has only a smidgen of persistence and only takes place in bursts of 20-60 minutes. Comparing EVE to LoL is like comparing real life warfare to chess.
Third, WoW is a better comparison. But in a list of highly competitive games, no one would put WoW (Arena or Battlegrounds) at the top except fanboys. Why? Because of the effect of gear on PvP. It is not enough to be good at the game in order to do well, but you also have to play it very often. Playtime = power goes against the purity of competitive play.
Congrats, you won a game with a different strategy. Now, try this in high level ranked and tell me how it goes. (Besides you never answered my question, are you for or against static lane structures?)
2 goes bot because of dragon. The lanes themselves aren't any different at all. If Baron was viable before 30 minutes, then 2 top would also be a viable strategy. It isn't, so people are pigeonholed into 2 bot.
Debatable.
Illusion, spamming skills at the opponent is only possible because of low/no mana cost spells and high regen. Throwing a 40 damage nuke 4 times is no different than throwing a 160 damage nuke once.
I'm confused. You DON'T like mobility that's available to everyone, and you DON'T like early (pre 6) tower dives or early aggression, but you LIKE fighting between the lanes. The only conclusion I can draw from this is that you want to farm until 6/red before you do anything of importance.
This is precisely why the F2P model is evil. Your primary motivation for playing any game should be because it's fun, not out of some kind of obligation to unlock stuff.
It's impossible not to be biased in a genre like this. If someone started with LoL, they'd feel some my criticisms were invalid because "OMG TOWERS SHOULD KEEP YOU SAFE". But even then there are things you can't deny like:
Riot's molasses slow balance cycle.
The impact of their business model on game design choices.
Lack of creativity when it comes to hero design.
Limitations of the engine.
If I went double Ring and double Negatron on Warwick, yeah sometimes I do. But it's not common. Inventory management is also a strategic aspect in DOTA, one that exists in LoL as well albeit to a lesser extent. After all, you should be buying wards whenever possible.
I'll reply to the rest of your post later. On my kindle at the moment.
EDIT:
I disagree but I recognize that personal preference is a key factor here. As someone who started LoL from Dota, not having everything unlocked from the start is incomprehensible. The idea is too WoW-like for me, I just want to compete. I don't want to grind to be on the same level as other players. In fact, the only reason I bought runes is because other people have runes. It's neither an engaging nor interesting aspect of the game for me. I have three rune pages at the moment, one is generic caster/tank, the other two are ad/jungle pages I made based off of Stonewall's rune layouts. That's it, that's about the extent runes factor into my enjoyment of the game.
Let me clarify. When I say "balanced" in terms of hero comp, I meant well-rounded. As in, has pushing, harass, sustain, poking, stuns etc. But no team can excel in all these factors simultaneously. Thus a balanced team sacrifices proficiency in any given strat. it's more adaptable, but it's also not as strong as a dedicated push team. Therefore, it's impossible to create a team without some kind of weaknesses. And having no specialties isactually a weakness.
Okay, I wasn't thinking about going through jungle actually. I guess I don't see it often enough that it slipped my mind. But if I recall correctly, you can't get to top red or bottom blue without taking a hit from the tower, or am I mistaken?
Business wise? Yeah. But you didn't need Riot to tell you this, the F2P models overwhelming popularity in the East is evidence enough that it's sustainable and versatile.
However, Riot has also shown us how harmful monetization of features can impact a competitive game. Let's just take a look at the rune and champion system. Runes have to be bought with IP, champions can be bought with IP and RP, skins can only be bought with RP. The current system offers players 4 options on how they want to progress.
1) Don't buy RP, get no skins, buy everything with IP. This is the cheapest choice and also the longest. Unless you play 5 or 6 games a day you won't have enough to buy everything, considering the speed at which they release champions and how many of them are 6300IP.
2) Buy RP, spend it on skins. The reason for this is because champions can be bought with IP, but skins cannot. In the eyes of these players, it makes skins a more valuable commodity because champions are "free". Of course, these same players rarely take into account the time they spend grinding IP, so it makes sense in their mind. However by taking this route they will be unable to buy as many runes as group 1, and so they have to spend just as much time grinding on top of what they're already paying for the skins.
3 ) Buy RP, spend it on skins and champions. For players who are like those in 2, but have more money to spend, they can buy both champions and RP. The system actively encourages this route, through two main factors:
a) You can only buy runes with IP. Runes are balanced so that they are desirable, but not so strong that they are necessary to be competitively viable. This influences players into believing that they should buy champions with RP so they can fight one ven footing with others.
b) Buying champions with RP is far more efficient than buying champions with IP. Nearly all 3150-6300 champions cost 975 RP, or about $10. This creates a psychological equivelancy that says $10 = 6300IP. Thus, they are less inclined to buy 3150 champions with RP than 6300 champs.
c) Skin bundles are cost effective but still expensive. The money that goes into a single bundle can be used to buy two champions instead. People who spend money on skins have less to spend on champions. If they want access to more champions, they will have to spend more money or buy less skins. Either way, Riot profits.
4) Buy RP, spend it all on champions, buy no skins. This is the preferable route for people who only care about gameplay. These players are also able to buy runes with their IP, providing them the maximum benefit at mininmal cost compared to grooup 2 and 3.
In all these scenarios, the existence of Runes twists players' mentality in order to influence them into spending money.
Sorry, ignore all this. This was a rush job and I went off track. When I can, I will edt it. Just keeping it here for reference.
JWong said:
This pretty much sums up what is wrong with most of your arguments. SC2 totally does have a metagame, and then you call out EVE, which isn't competitive in the same sense (AT ALL), WoW which doesn't have leveling in it's terrible competitive PvP that Blizzard have left to die, and CoD where in competition the leveling is removed and doesn't have a metagame anyway.
Unless you play at a way higher level than I'm imagining, your personal experiences aren't indicative of a game in a real competitive environment.
Also
How about your reason to play is to compete against people at a good game.
drunkendonuts
Member
i played a great lux game last night, i carried like mariah.
my friend ragnarocknroll had some super awesome ashe ult arrows as well.
my friend ragnarocknroll had some super awesome ashe ult arrows as well.
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
After much reading and debate with myself and 50 well trained professionals. I have come to the conclusion that Jwong for the most part doesn't know wtf he is talking about most of the time.
Oh and Talon is pretty godly with coordination :3
Oh and Talon is pretty godly with coordination :3
QisTopTier
XisBannedTier
Sion plus Taric is funnier :3Blackface said:
SouthernDragon
Member
stun stun burst burst
Owlowiscious
Member
so does the hon thread get all these hon vs lol posts there too?
throwawayname
Member
I think my main char switched from Vayne to Garen. So OP in the first 10min with a good supporter.
Pro Orianna is pro.
Game lasted 1 hour long. We got baron 3 times, most of the time we were stop by Brand's crazy AoE damage. But at the end I just went suicidal to kill him, basically wrecking him in 3-4 hits. However, I just get focused on and die. But then Orianna just comes in and rapes everyone
Best Lee Sin player ever. or the worst. Save us so many times. I tower dive, he use his ult to kick me out of the tower while he is stuck in my ult getting killed by Orianna (not that I would die from the tower). Orianna was getting chased by him and garen, he use his ult to kick her further into the towers. Seriously, if i didn't know better, I thought he was on my team!
I really never understood stacking the Deathcap. It has the most AP, but wouldn't it be better to get a Mejai's or more of the ArchAngels? It just seems like a way. I mean your 8/0/25. After the first few kills and assists, with zero deaths. Pick up the Mejai's!
Legato.Reborn-
Member
shintoki said:
You need to secure with GA.
GA is good on anyone, and a real morale killer for the other team.
Like Anivia. With GA.
I thought that stacking all archangel's and one deathcap was supposed to get you max AP, but then again some wiki says that you need like 4500+ mana for that archangel's to be better than deathcap for pure AP. Who knows. Of course something useful defensively is probably better than pure AP but pure AP is fun.shintoki said:
R
Retro_
Unconfirmed Member
Ferrio said:
It was their small aoe pop spells
The hitbox on them was ridiculously huge for some reason
I solo'd vs a karth prior and was wondering why I couldn't avoid his dots.(I've played vs Karth before so I had a feel for the range)
FutureZombie
Banned
I have trouble targeting champions in large group fights. Is there a way to target besides clicking on who you want to attack?
I don't know if this has been brought up here yet, but you guys know you can safely uninstall Pando Media Booster and still be able to play League of Legends, right? In fact you SHOULD uninstall it, because it is a proprietary download client that is ALWAYS SEEDING whether you like it or not.
Legato.Reborn-
Member
Hylian7 said:
Seeders > Leachers
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