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[LCGeek]

Also their Aklai doesn't seem to understand the eye above me represent oracle as she just use her dome thingy and stealth and not do anything while i whack her to death multiple times. XD

In normals I see this all the time. The best is doing it with a invis ward during the pre lvl 6 laning period. Often enough me and blud will ward a bush have one spam the circle in the lane near it and try to run to it as they don't realize they are spotted.

 

[Ferrio]

Yay some opponent complimented my cass. "Whoever the cass player is Great."

<3

Can't imagine how annoying she is to fight against. Since she's constant harass.

 

[Nome]

Yay some opponent complimented my cass. "Whoever the cass player is Great."

<3

Can't imagine how annoying she is to fight against. Since she's constant harass.

This seems to be representative of a lot of the champs. There's a lot of low cooldown spammy harass. Incredibly, incredibly annoying to play against.

 

[Ferrio]

This seems to be representative of a lot of the champs. There's a lot of low cooldown spammy harass. Incredibly, incredibly annoying to play against.

Hers is really low. 3 seconds for Q and .5 for e (in best case scenario). Both at lvl 1. Her ult changes the battle outcome if used properly too.

 

[JWong]

The next time you have all of that pre 30 minutes, get a screenshot (preferably with scoreboard). I really need to see some proof of this.

Here you go. First game of the day too.

A minute more and Rylai would have been done. Then start buying stuff to cap 6 item limit before 30 mins.

Yay some opponent complimented my cass. "Whoever the cass player is Great."

<3

Can't imagine how annoying she is to fight against. Since she's constant harass.

Yeah, I want to play Cass. She dominated me and my friends lane. I wonder why Riot put her as very difficult to play. Her skills seem straightforward, but I have yet to try.

 

[Blizzard]

Are there any tanks that can carry? I've seen one or two Mundo get a ton of kills, one malphite go mid and potentially get a ton of kills to carry, and someone was telling me about getting lots of pentakills with Singed. I feel like carrying as a tank only works against a bad team though. Are there any extra good ones?

 

[Rokal]

Yeah, I want to play Cass. She dominated me and my friends lane. I wonder why Riot put her as very difficult to play. Her skills seem straightforward, but I have yet to try.

All 4 of her abilities are skillshots, her ult is hard to use well, and most of her damage comes from Twin Fang. If you miss a Twin Fang, you'll have to wait for the full cooldown which stops most your damage output. Cass doesn't have any good natural escape spells, and she's pretty fragile. All of those reasons are why she is listed as 'hard'.

When I lane against a Cass I just play defensively avoiding her poison, and then jump her at level 3 or 4. As long as you don't let her land many of the poisons, you'll have the health to burst her down.

 

[Neutrality]

Are there any tanks that can carry? I've seen one or two Mundo get a ton of kills, one malphite go mid and potentially get a ton of kills to carry, and someone was telling me about getting lots of pentakills with Singed. I feel like carrying as a tank only works against a bad team though. Are there any extra good ones?

Mundo isn't a tank.
And that is a tough question, because if the definition of carry is just get a lot of kills then Amumu would be an excellent carry.
But I can't safely say that is the definition of a carry.

 

[Razgreez]

Mundo isn't a tank.
And that is a tough question, because if the definition of carry is just get a lot of kills then Amumu would be an excellent carry.
But I can't safely say that is the definition of a carry.

That is exactly a carry. Carries farm kills essentially

 

[Blizzard]

Mundo isn't a tank.
And that is a tough question, because if the definition of carry is just get a lot of kills then Amumu would be an excellent carry.
But I can't safely say that is the definition of a carry.

But this guide clearly says he's a tank! http://www.mobafire.com/league-of-legends/build/mundo-da-tank-28318

And clearly, a guide could never be wrong.

Worked well for me, I had the most total kills + assists until the end when I had a stupid death or two, so I ended up 4/4/4. Two people on our team were like 4/10 and 1/11 though. :/

 

[shintoki]

So what is JWong rank?

 

[iamblades]

Are there any tanks that can carry? I've seen one or two Mundo get a ton of kills, one malphite go mid and potentially get a ton of kills to carry, and someone was telling me about getting lots of pentakills with Singed. I feel like carrying as a tank only works against a bad team though. Are there any extra good ones?

It's more common the other way around though, a fighter going tanky. Malphite and Mundo are not truly tanks either. Malphite more so than Mundo, Mundo has no real tanking abilities at all, just a bit of health regen.

Galio is probably the tank that gets the most kills, because his ult can do insane amounts of damage depending on how many people and who the taunt hits.

Singed is annoying and his poison cloud can clean up the remnants of a team fight pretty easily if the other teams is sloppy or they chase him, though again he isn't truly a tank, as he has no real ability to decrease incoming damage to himself or an ally.

A well played rammus or amumu can dominate a game, but usually don't get a lot of kills.

Going the other way and taking a fighter and building him tanky is a better option usually, the true tanks have too many abilities that do little or no damage, so you can't really burst down anybody even if you get fed. A Jarvan or Garen or Tryndamere built as a tank will do more damage and have better survivability than a tank built as a carry.

 

[SouthernDragon]

So what is JWong rank?

Dunno, he doesn't show up in Ranked. He does have 168 wins to his credit, though.

 

[Jazzy Network]

I once got 13 potions to start off. True story.

 

[SouthernDragon]

I once got 13 potions to start off. True story.

We need the circumstances under which this happened.

Also, Rayven, will I be getting the champion pack? A friend had to send me the Mac client when I first started.

 

[Blizzard]

It's more common the other way around though, a fighter going tanky. Malphite and Mundo are not truly tanks either. Malphite more so than Mundo, Mundo has no real tanking abilities at all, just a bit of health regen.

Galio is probably the tank that gets the most kills, because his ult can do insane amounts of damage depending on how many people and who the taunt hits.

Singed is annoying and his poison cloud can clean up the remnants of a team fight pretty easily if the other teams is sloppy or they chase him, though again he isn't truly a tank, as he has no real ability to decrease incoming damage to himself or an ally.

A well played rammus or amumu can dominate a game, but usually don't get a lot of kills.

Going the other way and taking a fighter and building him tanky is a better option usually, the true tanks have too many abilities that do little or no damage, so you can't really burst down anybody even if you get fed. A Jarvan or Garen or Tryndamere built as a tank will do more damage and have better survivability than a tank built as a carry.

So what defines "truly" a tank in your opinion? Malphite, mundo, and singed aren't "truly" tanks, but jarvan is...rammus and amumu are as well?

 

[brian!]

singed can fling/slow people off carries, poison makes him a constant threat, he is durable via his ult, etc. he is a tank.

a tank, to my knowledge, is someone who both demands attention and is capable of enduring that focus for a good amount of time

 

[Door2Dawn]

Mundo isn't a tank.

wut

 

[SouthernDragon]

I'd like to mention that my Jarvan is now pretty solid. I know I said it before, but skipping HoG was a game changing decision.

 

[Ferny]

I'd like to mention that my Jarvan is now pretty solid. I know I said it before, but skipping HoG was a game changing decision.

Whats your build now?

 

[Ferrio]

All 4 of her abilities are skillshots, her ult is hard to use well, and most of her damage comes from Twin Fang. If you miss a Twin Fang, you'll have to wait for the full cooldown which stops most your damage output.

Twin fang isn't a skillshot you can't miss it. If you use it when your opponent isn't poisoned you have to wati for the whole cd. Also most of her damage comes from her poison Q, and her ult. Fang doesn't scale as well as the others , but with it's super low cd when they're poisoned it's good. But it all hinges on her Q.

Cass doesn't have any good natural escape spells, and she's pretty fragile. All of those reasons are why she is listed as 'hard'.

Yes, she is very fragile and slow. You must get flash with her. But she does have her ultimate which is a great escape spell. Just run, turn around blast them (they should all be facing you since they're chasing), and keep on running. Also lay down W (aoe slow) and hit them with a Q (gives you speed boost when you hit them) and you can make a get away.

When I lane against a Cass I just play defensively avoiding her poison, and then jump her at level 3 or 4. As long as you don't let her land many of the poisons, you'll have the health to burst her down.

Long as you don't get hit with them, ya she'll have a tough time. It's rare I find someone that's good at dodging them, especially since I've gotton better on prediction on where they'll try to run to. If you can judge her max range on it you should be good. If I find an opponent I can't hit a lot, then I just go into extreme creep push mode. She's great at pushing, and nets tons of money.

Yeah, I want to play Cass. She dominated me and my friends lane. I wonder why Riot put her as very difficult to play. Her skills seem straightforward, but I have yet to try.

Reasons she's hard.

-Q is a very slow skill shot, with not that great of range. It aims where your cursor is at the time you hit Q.
-You're constantly pushing buttons, there's never a time you're not using a skill. It only gets even more mashy as you level up. This is the main reason I think they rate her difficult.
-You need to get good at her rotations. W Q E E Q E E. All that in quick succession, with no breaking really. All need to be aimed/targetted.
-She's super squishy.

 

[SouthernDragon]

Whats your build now?

1) Regeneration Pendant -> Philosopher's Stone

You get this as soon as you can. Get last hits, even if you are dual laning. Getting it early is key to harass and sustain, not to mention gold. Stone should be the last item you sell, which means you'll be gaining additional gold throughout the game.

2) Madred's Razor -> Wriggle's Lantern

You'll have this item way, way into late game. If you have 1000 gold, go for Razor first. If you find yourself able to farm straight to 1600, get Wriggle's in one go. Wriggle's provides 30 armor which reduces damage by a surprisingly large amount. The passive lets you push better, score last hits better, and the lifeleech gives you added sustainability in lane. The ward gives better map awareness, making ganks harder for them and giving you the confidence to be aggressive.

At this point, you should be able to do a Demacian Standard -> Dragon Spear -> Aegis combo and walk out the winner after trading blows.

3) Boots

Added movement speed.

These are Jarvan's core items. After this, the boots you get are really matchup dependent, as are the follow up items.

3A) Do you feel you can survive the opposing CC?

Get Berserker's Greaves! Better farm, more damage in a fight!

3B) Too much CC to deal with? Get Mercury's Treads, and shrug it off. Also applicable if they are caster heavy.

4A) B.F. Sword -> Black Cleaver

If you feel you can go down an aggressive path, get this, especially with Greaves. It combos nicely with Spear, which means your targets will have their armor shredded. This also boosts the damage you do with your ult, should you need to use it. You'll usually get 3 hits in for sure, so it'll stack nicely with itself. If you trap someone in your ult, they're forced to stand there and take all 5 hits needed for a full proc, and they have likely taken a spear in the last 7 seconds as well. Makes farming a breeze.

4B) Phage -> Sheen -> Zeal -> Trinity Force

Do you need a tad more survivability? Do you find yourself playing more of a tanky role, getting lots of assists? Getting a bit too much damage? Get Phage! Sheen will make you scary, and Trinity Force will make you a force to be reckoned with, regardless of your role.

5A) Phage -> Frozen Mallet

Obviously, skip this if you have Trinity Force. Get this if you have Black Cleaver and feel like you can be very, very aggressive. Doing your Q -> E -> W combo after getting this and Cleaver makes you terrifying. People will Flash away from you and your two slows, and then you'll laugh maliciously as you use Catalysm to close the gap anyways.

5B) Chainmail -> Sorcerer's Cloak -> Cloth Armor -> Guardian Angel

Taking damage? Want to break their hearts? Get this, especially if you chose to go for Trinity Force. Hell, get it after Cleaver and Mallet. Laugh as your bountiful health and armor shrug off damage as you pulverize them.

6) Banshee's Veil

Excellent item, no reason NOT to have it. If you don't have enough magic resist, this will usually make you even in armor and magic resist, around 170+ at this point. Bonus health, bonus mana (which comes in useful once you throw away Stone), and a shield. This and Guardian Angel make teams extremely wary of engaging. Excellent psychological effect.

You will now sell Stone

7A) Atma's Spear

So, no matter what you made, you have a ton of health. Usually 3k - 3.5k This will give you 45 armor and 18% crit along with a beefy 60 damage. If you have Trinity Force, it synergizes even better!

7B) Stark's Fervor

Attack speed that boosts you up to 1.4-1.6 attacks per second, lots of lifeleech, reduces their armor further, AND it's a team buff! What's not to love?

Sell Wriggles!
8) Bloodthirster

HA HA HA HA /Gill

9) Warmogs

I AM THE UNDYING PRINCE OF DEMACIA

My usual builds go like this:

Core
Regen Pendant
-> Stone
Madreds
Boots
Wriggles
---
AGGRESSIVE
Cleaver
Mallet
Banshees
Atmas
---
TANKY
Trinity Force
Guardian Angel
Banshees
Cleaver

I then throw in Warmog's, Guardian Angel, Bloodthirster, Stark's... whatever I need, really. Hell, I bought a Sword of the Divine to counter Jax.

Masteries go 0/9/21, Runes go ArmPen/Armor/Mana Regen/ArmPen (Quints).

Skill order:
Standard
Spear
Shield

Then get Spear to level 4-5, Standard to 3-4, shield to 3-4, and then finish maxing them out.

Standard is amazing, because it passively boosts your AS and Armor, which is why I prioritize it over Shield. Spear makes you an aggressive Jarvan regardless of your build.

 

[iamblades]

So what defines "truly" a tank in your opinion? Malphite, mundo, and singed aren't "truly" tanks, but jarvan is...rammus and amumu are as well?

Tanks are characters with defensive abilities and or taunts. Malphite is the only one of that group that has any defensive abilities at all, and it's just his passive.

I also didn't say Jarvan was a tank, I said he was a fighter you can build tanky. Though Jarvan and Garen are more true tanks than singed or mundo IMO, as they both have shield abilities.

Might be a bit pedantic definition of what a tank is, but IMO if you don't have ways of reducing incoming damage, you are not a tank.

Pretty much any hero can have a ton of HP and armor, so by itself that doesn't make you a tank IMO.

 

[SouthernDragon]

I'd define tanks who have abilities that allow them to absorb a lot of damage, disrupt the enemy team, and can walk out of a fight.

 

[LCGeek]

Tanks are characters with defensive abilities and or taunts. Malphite is the only one of that group that has any defensive abilities at all, and it's just his passive.

I also didn't say Jarvan was a tank, I said he was a fighter you can build tanky. Though Jarvan and Garen are more true tanks than singed or mundo IMO, as they both have shield abilities.

Might be a bit pedantic definition of what a tank is, but IMO if you don't have ways of reducing incoming damage, you are not a tank.

Pretty much any hero can have a ton of HP and armor, so by itself that doesn't make you a tank IMO.

Mundo can generate a crapload of health often negating damage done. Even with ignite mundo well built is someone that is waste until the enemy team is down to 1 or 2 peeps in a fight.

 

[Neutrality]

Mundo has no initiation, no way of helping his teammates, and his only form of cc is a slow which is a skill shot.
Just because you can take a lot of damage doesn't mean you're a tank.
Mundo is more of a soak.

Now let us look at Leona for instance
She has a stun, a gap closing tool that also stuns, and a shield that when goes off slows in a radius. Her ultimate also stuns and slows in a big radius.

It really is a different play style.

 

[Stripper13]

There is definitely a different playstyle to tanks. For example, I only own kayle and twisted fate. If my entire team picks carries/mages I tend to use Kayle as the teams 'tank'. By default, my build will often result in the highest HP by a large margin. She also attracts a lot of attention with AOE attacks, slow, heal and invulnerability skills. However the playstyle involved is far from what I would consider a true tank.

I picked Sion last night for the first time. I would consider him a true tank. A shield, HP intensive hero that supports the team. Having a stun also means he initiates relatively well also.

On a side note, I've been playing twisted fate the last few nights. Really cool hero, probably a bit squishier than I would prefer in an assassin, but he is fun to play and farms well.

 

[broz0rs]

imo the only initiation a tank needs is to run towards them. It's what they do after the start of the fight that defines whether a champ can be considered a tank.

Singed is a good example of a tank that doesn't have a gap closing initiation ability, but gets the job done. He run in, tries to slow as many targets down with Q, peel off anti-carries with fling or fling a ranged carry to a bruiser, and his important ability is to stay alive with his ultimate.

 

[Teknopathetic]

The concept of a "tank" doesn't exist in these DotA-style games. You can do your best to attract attention, but ultimately you can't really control it. What really matters is crowd control, damage, and initiation. A lot of initiation requires throwing yourself into the enemy team, which means you'll naturally come under fire at first, which is why you build items to survive it, but once the fight is under way it's not like they can guarantee to hold people's attention, so these "tankier" characters are also given CC to help peel as much as possible, but again, it's nothing really guaranteed. However, there are also characters like Annie who you won't build many defensive items on but can still initiate a fight, they're not tanky at all, but that initiation is still a very important aspect of a team fight.

I would argue you never really need a "tank," but you do need CC, initiation, and damage.

 

[Haly]

No, I remember all the chain CC that CAN occur. Mostly because the guy who got ganked failed to recognize characters on the other team. But one character have more than one CC pre level 5 is completely unbalanced. I don't know what you consider a "hard stun", but a lot of LoL heroes do have early CC abilities that they can take from level 1.

For me, a hard stun is a ranged targeted stun that will rarely miss once cast unless it's disjointed or blocked using a spell shield. The only hard disables that can be acquired at level 1 are Fiddle' Terrify, Panth's Aegis, Sion's Cryptic Gaze, and Taric's Dazzle.

And I'm not sure why you'd think it's "completely unbalanced". Frustrating for people on the receiving end, yes, but "completely"? The fact that heroes like Lion and Rhasta have stuck around with their 5 seconds of disable for so long without nerfs should be proof enough that no one really feels it's imbalanced.

Unless you think that Dota, in its current incarnation, is completely unbalanced. I guess you'd know better than the millions of current Dota players.

Ermmm they removed teleport? I just used it yesterday.

Both TF and Panth's ult have been changed from global to a wide range a la Nocturne. This is what I meant, sorry for the confusion.

Prophet's teleport isn't an ulti on massive cooldown, so it's different.

Why bring it up right after taking about Shen/TF/Panth if you think they aren't comparable?

Tower dive happens in LoL and has risk/reward. Don't tell me you haven't seen a successful early tower dive for first blood, because that would be so untrue.

Keyword "reasonable".

Can you give me evidence that Riot doesn't balance the game from high level matches?

Not sure how I can easily convey a year of watching Riot patches and looking at discussion on the boards and playing the game and watching others play the game. It's a series of observations built over time, not a single article I can link you or whatever.

You practically countered yourself with your own Flash evidence. They would have nerfed Flash to oblivion if what you're saying is true.

Flash is pretty integral to early aggression any match, ranked or unranked right now. Many heroes are made viable because of the existence of Flash. The reason Riot hasn't changed Flash yet is because there's no easy way to do so without a ton of consequences, resulting in more work. Also, Flash has been nerfed again and again since its beta incarnation, and yet there is a sizable portion of the population complaining about it.

Well well, you're not high ELO and you're talking like you're high ELO. Can you stop using high ELO as an argument now?

I'm talking using information gleaned from high ELO games/players/discussion. So no, no I won't.

If you don't understand how persistence can expose players to do non-gametime research, then you're pretty lost on this point. Someone can pick one of the hundred random DotA characters and never ever learn how to play a single one of them. Of course, we'll have to see if Valve can do a better job teaching it.

Two things:

1) How does having masteries/runes teach you to play a given hero after another different hero?

2) I started out on Silencer in Dota, and I learned slowly by playing and reading guides. So if someone picks a hero and never learns how to play them, maybe they should look up a guide. The same is true of LoL. Jungling is a good example of this. It's very prominent in the current metagame, some would even say necessary, yet most aspiring junglers rely on other players to teach them the paths, the builds, and the strategies.

Uh when did I say that? Pre minion spawn killing happen a lot in LoL when mistakes happen. And that's usually because of brush.

In all the games I played this week, there is always lane movement in 5 minutes. I don't know what experience you had if no one is moving to other lanes.

So you're saying people switch lanes before 5 minutes in DotA to attack? You don't even have any skills to do any damage.

Mostly because the guy who got ganked failed to recognize characters on the other team. But one character have more than one CC pre level 5 is completely unbalanced.

Lane switching happens occasionally pre level 6 if a player feels not confident with the hero their facing, but lane switching happens a lot when people are ready to gank.

From these statements I get the impression that you don't feel people should be moving to gank prior to 5 minutes. If they do gank prior to 5 minutes, it's usually a mistake because of brush.

DotA has all that + Denying, which means LoL is more PVP than DotA. Get it?

Denying is a form of resource control. Resource control = PvP. Also, keep in mind you need two parties present in order for denying to have any effect. Whereas you only need one side present to get all the benefits of farming. The article I linked to earlier mentions this. Let me requote it just in case you missed it.

Yes, but, you know – while Starcraft II has a really robust single-player, if you want to compete in the multiplayer and win more than 10 percent of your games, you have to be very intense and really focused. I'm not trying to say that League of Legends is super accessible, but the moment-to-moment experience actually does allow for rest and different forms of gameplay.

You can have the intense team battles, but then you can go farm a little bit and do some PvE and go back to base and heal at the fountain and do item shopping -- things like that. It's this natural pacing that happens, like in Counter-Strike, where you have really intense action for three minutes, shooting guys and running around the map, then you get killed and you get to hang out a bit.

World of Warcraft and a lot of other games have a similar pattern of intensity, then a break, then intensity, then a break -- whereas an RTS game is straight intensity the entire time. It's more intense, I would say, from a consistence perspective.

Full Article.
Here Marc clearly states that farming and other "PvE" elements were designed to give players a little break between fighting other players. Again, just to make sure you understand this, denying doesn't do anything when no one is around to get denied. But farming is still useful even if no one is in your lane. Just in case you might misinterpret this somehow:

Denying:
Player 1: I'm making other people weaker!
Player 2: I'm being weakened, oh noes!

Farming:
Player 1: I'm getting stronger!

Like I said, can happen in LoL. So what now?

Doesn't happen as often, as others have stated. Riot is looking for ways to make the level 1-5 game more dynamic and interesting to watch. Guinsoo's proposed jungle changes are part of this.

You =/= Everyone

Ahaha, it's really ironic you, of all people, should say this. Considering you think your personal experience is the be all and end all of balance debates maybe you should rethink your stance?

Riot struggling to make profit? AHAHAHAHAAAA that's a first!

Reading comprehension, please.

Could you do me a favor? When you reply to my post, take a minute or two afterward to read it over and correct any mistakes/clear up any muddy sentences. I like to debate, but it's only when the other side is putting in a fair amount of effort into their posts, rather than skimming over everything and then writing the first thing that comes to mind.

For example first you said:

Can you give me evidence that Riot doesn't balance the game from high level matches?

Which would imply that you're skeptical that Riot balances solely based on high level matches while...

So where's this evidence that they don't look at low rank or unranked games? As I had already asked.

...implies that you're skeptical that they don't take lower level games into account when making balance decisions.

I've left other responses unanswered because I can't understand them or I don't see any reason in continuing along the same lines.

 

[Ark]

Jesus Christ you two need to calm down or take it to pm's.

 

[Haly]

Jesus Christ you two need to calm down or take it to pm's.

Feel free to put us on your ignore list. In fact, I consider it a worthy sacrifice if I can save even a single person from having to listen to anything that comes out of Jwong's mouth.

 

[Ark]

Feel free to put us on your ignore list. In fact, I consider it a worthy sacrifice if I can save even a single person from having to listen to anything that comes out of Jwong's mouth.

I'm not really bothered to be honest. They're just making my life harder having to scroll through the thread

 

[Haly]

I'm not really bothered to be honest. They're just making my life harder having to scroll through the thread

If we're on your ignore list our posts won't show up!

 

[Ark]

If we're on your ignore list our posts won't show up!

I don't add people to my ignore list, because I like to see the drama

 

[2th]

I don't add people to my ignore list, because I like to see the drama

wait till you start playing with Brazillians who can only say "morde es #1 huehuehue" your ignore list will grow fast.

Fake edit: oh you meant here on GAF. Same applies.

 

[Ark]

I only add people to my ignore list in absolutely extreme circumstances, I've had more than my fair share of trolls on the internet, just gotta suck it up and whoop ass.

 

[kiunchbb]

What happened to the good old day when people discuss simpler stuff... Like, "why my team screaming at me when I buy 2 boot, i just want to run faster".

Or when people posting a screen cap of the miracle of actually winning a premade game with 5 gaffers.


Let me steer this thread back to the right direction...

GUYS AD sona is awesome.

Flash/Clarity, start with mana stone. Build into boot and shen, then Berserk Boot, BF sword, IE, Trinity force.

She is actually more powerful than Sivir as AD carry.

 

[Blizzard]

What happened to the good old day when people discuss simpler stuff... Like, "why my team screaming at me when I buy 2 boot, i just want to run faster".

Or when people posting a screen cap of the miracle of actually winning a premade game with 5 gaffers.


Let me steer this thread back to the right direction...

GUYS AD sona is awesome.

Flash/Clarity, start with mana stone. Build into boot and shen, then Berserk Boot, BF sword, IE, Trinity force.

She is actually more powerful than Sivir as AD carry.

I have Sivir, and I have the Sivir skin, and I like Sivir, but even I will say that that's not much of an accomplishment.

Also, winning a premade game with 5 gaffers seems to hardly ever happen, presumably because I'm on their team, so that IS a miracle!

 

[Ark]

Also, winning a premade game with 5 gaffers seems to hardly ever happen, presumably because I'm on their team, so that IS a miracle!

What! Clearly EU GAF > NA GAF.

I've started playing with the same six or so people every day, and as a premade team, we haven't lost a game yet (14+ games atm).

This is just normal PvP, we're all level 12-22 or so.

 

[Blizzard]

What! Clearly EU GAF > NA GAF.

I've started playing with the same six or so people every day, and as a premade team, we haven't lost a game yet (14+ games atm).

This is just normal PvP, we're all level 12-22 or so.

Maybe it's easier on lower levels. With level 20-30 people on the NA GAF chatroom, it seems like about 4-5 out of 6 games are losses for us lately, with 3-5 GAF people per game.

Again, the problem may literally be me, and I lose all games for my team, but I almost find that hard to believe.

 

[Achtius]

Maybe it's easier on lower levels. With level 20-30 people on the NA GAF chatroom, it seems like about 4-5 out of 6 games are losses for us lately, with 3-5 GAF people per game.

Again, the problem may literally be me, and I lose all games for my team, but I almost find that hard to believe.

nah bad match up sometimes

 

[shintoki]

Maybe it's easier on lower levels. With level 20-30 people on the NA GAF chatroom, it seems like about 4-5 out of 6 games are losses for us lately, with 3-5 GAF people per game.

Again, the problem may literally be me, and I lose all games for my team, but I almost find that hard to believe.

Maybe a lot of you aren't as good as you think you are! :O

 

[MultiCore]

Maybe a lot of you aren't as good as you think you are! :O

Ice cold!

 

[shintoki]

Out of my last 6, I lost 4. I'm starting to notice a pattern.

Every single loss has been with a Vayne on my team. And every single one has been terrible. Each have gone something like 1/8, 3/7, etc. Last one couldn't even last hit :O

 

[dragonlife]

I need serious help with the camera. I usually play with it locked, but I've noticed that's terrible in PVP games, so I leave it normal. But I ALWAYS get screwed over somehow. How do you guys manage the camera? I try to move it ahead of me with the mouse each time I'm about to get out of its range, but I usually don't see something important (teammate dying right in front of me, which JUST happened), or it screws me over when I'm trying to escape, either by dragging AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLL the way to who-the-fuck-knows-where and dying, etc.

 

[Haly]

I need serious help with the camera. I usually play with it locked, but I've noticed that's terrible in PVP games, so I leave it normal. But I ALWAYS get screwed over somehow. How do you guys manage the camera? I try to move it ahead of me with the mouse each time I'm about to get out of its range, but I usually don't see something important (teammate dying right in front of me, which JUST happened), or it screws me over when I'm trying to escape, either by dragging AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLL the way to who-the-fuck-knows-where and dying, etc.

Camera control is a skill you pick up as you play. I really suggest you play on normal all the time instead of locked, locked breeds bad habits.

The spacebar is handy, it automatically centers the camera to your hero from wherever it is. You can also hold it down to lock the camera to your hero. You should also make use of the minimap to quickly check up on other lanes.

 

[iamblades]

I need serious help with the camera. I usually play with it locked, but I've noticed that's terrible in PVP games, so I leave it normal. But I ALWAYS get screwed over somehow. How do you guys manage the camera? I try to move it ahead of me with the mouse each time I'm about to get out of its range, but I usually don't see something important (teammate dying right in front of me, which JUST happened), or it screws me over when I'm trying to escape, either by dragging AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLL the way to who-the-fuck-knows-where and dying, etc.

you should actually be looking ahead of where you are going most of the time. If you are pretty sure it is safe behind you, play with your back right up to the edge of the screen, so you can see incoming projectiles and things you may be able to dodge from the furthest possible point. Locked camera is terrible for this, always getting projectiles coming in from off the screen.

Lots of it is just situational awareness though, knowing where danger may possibly come from, and knowing when it is safe to look away. if can be rough in games where no one is warding, you'll be walking down your own lane and watching one of your teammates fighting, and you get ganked from the jungle. You may think you missed it cause the camera was focused else where, but you really missed cause your team had no vision in your jungle so you never saw the enemies on the mini map. Which is another thing that helps, watch the damn minimap.

 

[SouthernDragon]

I sure hope Ferny appreciates my post on Jarvan...

 

[kiunchbb]

I need serious help with the camera. I usually play with it locked, but I've noticed that's terrible in PVP games, so I leave it normal. But I ALWAYS get screwed over somehow. How do you guys manage the camera? I try to move it ahead of me with the mouse each time I'm about to get out of its range, but I usually don't see something important (teammate dying right in front of me, which JUST happened), or it screws me over when I'm trying to escape, either by dragging AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLL the way to who-the-fuck-knows-where and dying, etc.

put your thumb on the space bar in your keyboard, it will jump the camera center into your character.

Very handy if your cannot find your character, or just want a quick glance at some other places.