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League of Legends |OT| Free to play Dota clone (PC)
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You should see ERWINZOR's Tremble. He is so scary. But yeah, Tremble with LoL's control scheme is laughable. Not to mention Antifun.Ultimoo said:I just don't like the idea of mounds being easily destroyed.or at the very least, people going into your web to see you. I don't think League would ever implement such a hero though, seems like it'd be against their design policy, lol.
Shit, he's against our own design policy too. I've always felt a bit upset about releasing him early (by my standards).Ultimoo said:I just don't like the idea of mounds being easily destroyed.
Anyway, just watched Riven spotlight. I feel like this champ is going to run into the exact same problems we ran into with Monkey King.
-Ridiculously difficult to balance.
-Poor skill:reward ratios.
Basically, if you make the skill:reward ratio too low, the champ risks being overshadowed by more traditional, basic DPS alternatives. On the other hand, if the skill:reward ratio is too high, you end up having the champ being picked ubiquitously at high levels, and coupled with the high mobility, makes it a bit of a problem.
I don't know how LoL's balancing works, but for HoN we try to address balance concerns only at the competitive level while design concerns (ie, something is "annoying") address all levels of play. For Monkey King in particular, we've held back on buffing him more because in the hands of a good player, he can be close to unstoppable. I know competitors aren't using him right now because melee carries are a bit meta'd out and he's too risky of a pickup.
Anyway, sorry for hijacking the thread.
SouthernDragon
Member
Nome, keep posting, it's interesting.
I really, really want to get Riven right off the bat, but I'm nervous...
Also, I'm still able to log on even AFTER the patch!
OH HO HO
I really, really want to get Riven right off the bat, but I'm nervous...
Also, I'm still able to log on even AFTER the patch!
OH HO HO
SouthernDragon
Member
Oh, nice. Good job, Riot, this is the kind of thing I like to see.
Tamat said:
WAT WAT WAT WAT WAT WAT WAT WAT WAT WAT WAT WAT WAT WAT WAT
Riven isn't nearly as complicated as Monkey King. Her mobility, while higher than what LoL players are used to, is still manageable and predictable. Whereas with Monkey king, if your target so much as twitches your leap can go in a completely different direction.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
potions now show their stacks when used which is nice.
SouthernDragon
Member
Halycon said:
AAAHHHH HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
SouthernDragon
Member
Ultimoo said:
I could think of a good reason. If you're on the run, and bringing up the rear as a tank, you could ult in key bottlenecks and Standard -> Spear your way out of the ult. You'd make an impassable ring for 4 seconds while your team continues to flee.
Reminds me of: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJAN1oDRJpkUltimoo said:
Lol the Shaco changes. Biggest blue ball ever to Shaco fans.
Riven and (HoN's) Monkey King actually have a lot in common, especially since both were apparently inspired by fighting game mechanics.Halycon said:
When I designed Monkey King, I made it very clear from the outset that abilities would be very distinct; you have Q being the dash, W being the leap (it was a shoryuken in closed beta, complete with the sound lol), and E being the slam. There was a very particular rhyme and reason to each ability, particularly in which order you'd want to use them in. I felt that this was needed, so that while experienced players could combo the abilities together in whatever way they wanted to fit the situation on the fly, a new player could still string together something impressive just by doing Q/W/E/W with good success each time. It's also a "true combo" in that once you start it, you don't really need to adapt to on-the-fly change; you can just keep your mouse cursor on top of your target and continue clicking. That's also why I specifically made the second Q dash on Monkey King automatically activate; so new players didn't have to mind a timer to trigger it, while more experienced players who want total control are still able to trigger it early if they wish.
With Riven, it seems a lot more difficult for new players to really build a single routine combo. Now, I haven't played the champ yet, and probably won't until it goes on rotation, so this is all speculation based on the video. It seems to me that the optimal damage combo here would be something like R to start, then Q/W/Q/Q/R, with autoattacks interspersed between, possibly a E somewhere too to catch up. It's going to be a lot worse because Q and E are somewhat indistinct; both are dashes, both take you to your mouse location, and the champ already seems like an APM monster. I can tell there was some convergent thinking on the ultimate too; with Monkey King, it was decided midway through development that the basic three abilities were more than enough to keep players mentally occupied; the addition of a fourth ability would be way too much, which is why we settled on a passive in the end. With Riven, it seems they went the same path... sorta.
It's also kind of interesting that the fastest way to move, given a lack of mana problems, would be to Q/Q/Q/E repeatedly. With Monkey King, the fastest way to move would be to Q/E/W repeatedly.
Neki stop griefing me please.
Targetable Jarvan ult would make Jarvan really strong again.
I have to say, I love the look of Riven's mobility. The design of her W is seriously boring though. AoE with ministun? ok. Sound's exactly like Jax's counter attack.
Don't listen to ultimoo,
He's bad.
Targetable Jarvan ult would make Jarvan really strong again.
I have to say, I love the look of Riven's mobility. The design of her W is seriously boring though. AoE with ministun? ok. Sound's exactly like Jax's counter attack.
Don't listen to ultimoo,
He's bad.
Door2Dawn said:What.
You can grip your own allies with skarner? He's moved up a couple of tiers because of that. I mean something more along the lines of a devourer hook, or a nymphora teleport. that is an ability that will physically move your allied hero, regardless of what they think. blocking doesn't move your hero really, just restricts it temporarily. I shouldn't have said blocking, blocking isn't as a big deal as some of the other stuff people could do.
Nome said:
This is pretty much the boat that Lee-sin is in. In the right hands, he's extremely powerful. In average hands he's pretty terrible compared to basic DPS alternatives. They could buff him so that the average player has an easier time handling him, but it would make him over-powered in high-skill environments.
I love the concepts of these high-mobility combo characters. The Monkey King HoN spotlight made the champion seem more interesting/innovative than anything in LoL, but as a fairly average player these types of champions underperform. I gave up on Lee-Sin after playing him heavily for ~2 weeks because, even though I was getting better with playing him and I felt like I had some really amazing plays, I was still less effective than I'd be playing a simpler champion.
I'll probably pick up Riven tonight because she looks really fun, but I expect I'll be shelving her in the long-term.
Second thought:
Running back and forth between the first towers in mid, with 395 ms.
There is some delay between her Qs where you can click to move a little bit. Think of it like wavedashing. If you don't right click something, the distance you can travel with Q is dramatically lower. In fact, QQQ + click is 0.5-1 seconds slower than just moving.
Q + Click + QQ + Click is, on the other hand, only marginally faster than just moving. As a distance closer, while Q does give you a tiny edge, is almost insignificant.
E + Q + Click + QQ is about 1 seconds faster than without E.
To summarize:
Distance: From first mid tower to second mid tower
Click: ~4.5 seconds
QQQ+Click: ~5 Seconds
Q+Click+Q+Click+Q+Click: ~4.5 seconds, but a bit more than just clicking.
E+Q+Click+Q+Click+Q+Click: ~3-3.5 seconds.
Running back and forth between the first towers in mid, with 395 ms.
There is some delay between her Qs where you can click to move a little bit. Think of it like wavedashing. If you don't right click something, the distance you can travel with Q is dramatically lower. In fact, QQQ + click is 0.5-1 seconds slower than just moving.
Q + Click + QQ + Click is, on the other hand, only marginally faster than just moving. As a distance closer, while Q does give you a tiny edge, is almost insignificant.
E + Q + Click + QQ is about 1 seconds faster than without E.
To summarize:
Distance: From first mid tower to second mid tower
Click: ~4.5 seconds
QQQ+Click: ~5 Seconds
Q+Click+Q+Click+Q+Click: ~4.5 seconds, but a bit more than just clicking.
E+Q+Click+Q+Click+Q+Click: ~3-3.5 seconds.
The healing/escape is nice, but smart players will wait until you use it and then stun you (20-second cooldown time, not sure what it's minimum is, maybe 7-12 seconds with max CDR and full level?), and if it's someone like Annie, you probably won't be able to move quickly enough to escape the first stun and move before the remaining spells burst you. If it's a ranged character they may also get some autoattacks on you in the process.Nome said:He's a farming monster with a global AoE ult, 'nuff said
But what really breaks him is Remove Scurvy. You can even remove Warwick's Infinite Duress... D:
Regarding being a farming monster, I get avarice blade for gold and I last hit with parley for bonus gold, but the only other way he can farm is using the ult, sunfire cloak (no one does this, right?), or autoattacks. If he autoattacks minions, that means anyone with range should be able to autoattack him in return while being out of melee range. Parley does get down to 3-4 seconds cooldown but most ranged champions should be able to autoattack more than once in 3-4 seconds.
If he has items and no one is defending the minions then he can kill them quickly by autoattacking, sure.
SouthernDragon
Member
inky said:
Well, we have a private server.
lolgaf.mumble.com
6923
There's another server that hosts all of GAF, but I forget what it is.
Ultimoo said:carry our HON IH games next time with Tremble and then we can talk.
I don't play IH anymore because there are a bunch of toolsheds who play IH. I'm in the 1700s ... I've still carried with Tremble in games.
And what did they do to Sion? Mana changes ... I never really had much of a mana problem on him with the right runes and items.
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