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League of Legends |OT| Free to play Dota clone (PC)
- Thread starter blitz64
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FutureZombie
Banned
Deathfire Grasp is an incredible item on Sion. You're already going to be in range to use it, plus cooldown reduction means you're stunning people more often. So good.
This was a boring game. The only thing I got out of it was practicing last hitting. The only two kill i got was ulting a dying lux when she was running away at bot lane, and catching wukong escaping via stealth.
Swain, on the other hand, was farming off lux at top.
or swain
Swain, on the other hand, was farming off lux at top.
Jagxyz said:
or swain
hmmmdonuts
Neo Member
With so much variety and depth, I don't see how anyone could ever get tired of this game.
Mister Wilhelm
Member
cdyhybrid said:
I play Warwick and I don't understand this problem.
Mister Wilhelm
Member
cdyhybrid said:Well when I play Warwick it's fine, obviouslyPushed too far? Flash away. Three person gank? I can go invisible, lololol.
Pink ward. Exhaust. Counter-flash.
Dance In My Blood said:
Its not, its a game problem.
Free Base teleports
Everyone can use Flash
Nidalee can leap
Eve can Stealth
Twitch can stealth
Akali can stealth
Alistar can ram to creeps
Amumu can bandage toss to creeps
Avina can wall you off
Caitlyn can net away
Corki can jump
Galio can speed away
Gragas can run
Jarvan can hook shot
Jax can leap away
Kassadin can port away
Kat can Shumpo to anything
Kennan can electricity away
LeBlanc has 2 ways to run away
Lee Sin can jump to units
Leona can go to enemy creeps
Malphite can ulti away
Yi can piss bolt away
Noc can ulti to a creep
Patheon can ulti away
TF can ulti away
Rammus can spinball away
Renekeon can dash away
Shaco can stealth
Shen can ulti away
Talon can stealth away
Teemo can stealth
Tryn can Endless can and E away
Vayne can somesault stealth away
Vlad can pool away
Wukong can shadow clone away
Did i miss anything?
I play warwick and still have this problem, since with a movement speed quint, ult, and flash, people still seem to get away. Warwick doesn't seem like he can often kill 1v1, and unless you have frost hammer, magic resist movement+ armor, or red buff, people can still take a great deal of time to catch.Mister Wilhelm said:
les papillons sexuels
Banned
Gez said:
garen can spin away
riven can e-q away
gankplank can cleanse
graves can dash
poppy and teemo both have mini ghosts
rumble can sheild-float
janna can ult whirlwind
am I doing this right?
that said, everyone has the same abilities to catch you or cc if you do over extend.
You guys are being facetious, but it's a real issue concerning the gameplay. Flash has a lot to do with it.
If you look at the origins of Flash--that is, Kelen's Dagger of Escape from DotA, you'll recognize why it's a problem immediately. Kelen's Dagger was basically a super Flash on a low cooldown worth a sizable chunk of gold. When it was in its heyday, it operated exactly like any other Blink/Flash-type ability, which gave it unbounded utility. Everyone would buy it, and as a result, very few deaths would occur because players were able to escape death at a whim. To solve this problem, a 3 second out-of-combat cooldown was introduced--that is, if you took damage, you could not use it for 3 seconds. This effectively limited the item to (mostly) initiators.
In LoL, you're amplifying the problem by not only making it available for ALL champions, but removing any gold cost from it. As a result, to combat the effectiveness of Flash, you have to give a lot of champions mobility and gap closers, so they can pursue effectively. The converse of this action is that with so many gap closers, you inevitably need gap closing of your own, which usually just ends up with you picking Flash. The problem with removing or nerfing Flash too hard of course, is that Champion design has been built entirely around it. For the same reason that removing Kelen's Dagger/Portal Key from DotA/HoN would make five or six heroes useless, Flash's initiative properties cannot be touched at this point.
Indestructible terrain is another issue. In DotA/HoN, the only true terrain dividers are cliffs, and cliffs are not common in the sense that they're placed in such a way that players don't have to do much traveling to get past them. Trees are destructible, and they rarely form a long wall. In LoL, because Flash and so many other pseudo-Flash type abilities allow you to move across walls, Champs are a lot harder to kill.
One of my biggest criticisms of LoL is the Red/Blue neutral buff system. It locks your team setup down completely, effectively forcing you to have a jungler. In DotA/HoN, any player off the minimap is a threat at any point due to the high mobility afforded by Teleport Scrolls/Homecoming Stones. In LoL, players need only worry about the jungler, which means they may lane with a predetermined mindset of what to expect in terms of a gank.
Which brings me to the next point, the proliferation of vision. In DotA and HoN, vision wards are limited in two ways: by prohibitive cost and shop stock. LoL has unlimited vision, and wards are extremely easy to purchase. In addition, Clairvoyance allows risk-free scouting with global range. Vision in MOBA style games must be balanced precariously--give too much vision and ganks are foiled too often, leading to low action. Give too little vision and ganks happen to much, causing players to play overly cautious, again leading to low action. LoL is firmly cemented in the former right now.
If you look at the origins of Flash--that is, Kelen's Dagger of Escape from DotA, you'll recognize why it's a problem immediately. Kelen's Dagger was basically a super Flash on a low cooldown worth a sizable chunk of gold. When it was in its heyday, it operated exactly like any other Blink/Flash-type ability, which gave it unbounded utility. Everyone would buy it, and as a result, very few deaths would occur because players were able to escape death at a whim. To solve this problem, a 3 second out-of-combat cooldown was introduced--that is, if you took damage, you could not use it for 3 seconds. This effectively limited the item to (mostly) initiators.
In LoL, you're amplifying the problem by not only making it available for ALL champions, but removing any gold cost from it. As a result, to combat the effectiveness of Flash, you have to give a lot of champions mobility and gap closers, so they can pursue effectively. The converse of this action is that with so many gap closers, you inevitably need gap closing of your own, which usually just ends up with you picking Flash. The problem with removing or nerfing Flash too hard of course, is that Champion design has been built entirely around it. For the same reason that removing Kelen's Dagger/Portal Key from DotA/HoN would make five or six heroes useless, Flash's initiative properties cannot be touched at this point.
Indestructible terrain is another issue. In DotA/HoN, the only true terrain dividers are cliffs, and cliffs are not common in the sense that they're placed in such a way that players don't have to do much traveling to get past them. Trees are destructible, and they rarely form a long wall. In LoL, because Flash and so many other pseudo-Flash type abilities allow you to move across walls, Champs are a lot harder to kill.
One of my biggest criticisms of LoL is the Red/Blue neutral buff system. It locks your team setup down completely, effectively forcing you to have a jungler. In DotA/HoN, any player off the minimap is a threat at any point due to the high mobility afforded by Teleport Scrolls/Homecoming Stones. In LoL, players need only worry about the jungler, which means they may lane with a predetermined mindset of what to expect in terms of a gank.
Which brings me to the next point, the proliferation of vision. In DotA and HoN, vision wards are limited in two ways: by prohibitive cost and shop stock. LoL has unlimited vision, and wards are extremely easy to purchase. In addition, Clairvoyance allows risk-free scouting with global range. Vision in MOBA style games must be balanced precariously--give too much vision and ganks are foiled too often, leading to low action. Give too little vision and ganks happen to much, causing players to play overly cautious, again leading to low action. LoL is firmly cemented in the former right now.
They would have to rebalance the entire game if they remove flash as of now. They locked themselves completely into it, just like the current meta game going on.
Its definitely why my opinion has changed over the year. Prior, I use to think that it still had a high skill cap. Now, its pretty clear that there is a limit and formula to achieving that. The game has dug itself a nasty hole that it can't really take itself out of without drastic change.
Its definitely why my opinion has changed over the year. Prior, I use to think that it still had a high skill cap. Now, its pretty clear that there is a limit and formula to achieving that. The game has dug itself a nasty hole that it can't really take itself out of without drastic change.
shintoki said:
Don't get me wrong; LoL does have a high skill cap. I'd argue that some of the champs have a much higher skillcap than anything found in HoN or DotA. The potential for good plays is definitely there, but the game doesn't necessarily have the players, or currently does the best to facilitate those plays.
I'm not really referring to individual skill play.Nome said:
You touched on it with being forced to jungle. The game is currently locked heavily into the 1 top, 1 mid, 2 bot, 1 jungler.
Your top is normally a self sustaining character. Middle is your AP burst. Bottom is your AD carry with support, or maybe a tank. Jungle is jungle. There is very little method to change up this play. It reminds me of WoW, where the min/maxing ended up showing the faults of the game.
shintoki said:
Not really true. The meta can change if high end players begin to introduce new things.
E.g. EU teams have recently introduced 2 ap burst characters in the same team and this completely wrecked the NA's meta of having a tanky top,jungler,ap mid and support/ad bot and made it so that they couldn't even get to late game.
And Scarra has been raping face with his akali too in the pre season tournaments so far.
Sure the 1top,jungler,1mid and 2 bot will stay for a while but it will change. SK gaming has also said that they will be introducing an entirely new meta in season 2 so i'm looking forward to that and whether it'll change both EU's and NA's meta game so far
shintoki said:
Flash needs to be an item and not a free skill everybody can use. This satisfies your concerns without having to reblance the game, while balancing the game as the same time.
I think someone commented saying that all the high level players use flash.
Sorry for that list above, i don't hate the game.
It wont matter if they make flash an item activate. People will just rush that because they're all dependent on it. 9 out of 10 builds recommends flash as one of the two summoner spells no matter what champion it is. A lot of the newer champions are designed around flash. Notice how Phreak emphasizes the use of flash when unleashing a chain of abilities to deal "a ton of damage". Removing could potentially break a lot of champions in their current state and make a huge shift in the current meta.
I know they've been experimenting with some new setups, but some of it is limited to new support characters (Lux, Yorick, etc.).
Akali has self sustain, so she fits right in that top lane profile.Ferga said:
I know they've been experimenting with some new setups, but some of it is limited to new support characters (Lux, Yorick, etc.).
If its an item. The problem is still there. Now all it does is set back classes who need it whatever the cost(most likely would be boots, so they lose cooldown, merc trends, or whatever). Giving a massive buff to characters who don't rely on it as much.Gez said:
Characters like Annie absolutely need it due to her short range, otherwise its very easy to stay out of range. Characters like Tyrand or Aki don't. They can be on you at any time, and are exceptionally hard to escape. Yi and Olaf with their CC immunity ults, Nasus's or Singed slows, etc. Xin, Raven, and Jax instant jump. Many of these abilities will need to be looked at. While characters with no real defense to it will be gone.
What about other summoner skills too? Cleanse is a free escape or counter to CC. In the hands of characters like Tyrand or Nasus against without flash. They'll definitely become god tier. Ignite being a free finisher. Etc.
Its really not just flash, but how the game has been built around certain decisions.
Ladyboy101
Banned
flash has cool down time, did you know that?Gez said:
also you may have one of these CC abilities: slow, snare, silence, stun, exaust, knockup, taunt, fear, suppress
you can also use summoner spells: ghost, flash, ignite, exaust, teleport
l2p
I agree with this Flash removal / nerf thing. Even champions with a lot of escape abilities choose it, and they are practically safe from any gank. If your team does not have a lot of stuns, some heroes can escape from a 3 man gank easily. That's weird.
After that he's vulnerable for 4 minutes... so what? just farm on the back, farm neutrals, or get in a big group.
But yes, the game is already too much built into it. Lots of escape abilities, lots of gap closers... it's weird, and it's one of the reasons I want to switch to Dota 2.
After that he's vulnerable for 4 minutes... so what? just farm on the back, farm neutrals, or get in a big group.
But yes, the game is already too much built into it. Lots of escape abilities, lots of gap closers... it's weird, and it's one of the reasons I want to switch to Dota 2.
NemesisPrime
Banned
Cheeto said:
That means you did not set up a perfect gank. TBH forcing people to use their flash is part of the game and you need to remember at all times who is without flash if you want to be a serious elo player.
Mister Wilhelm
Member
Blizzard said:
I can't remember the last time I lost a 1v1 as Warwick, even at 50% health if I have my ulti.
He has a buff to his chase speed for low health opponents and that combined with his high single target DPS, it shouldn't take long to drop an enemy provided you are building him right.
My first three items are usually wriggles lantern, mercury treads, and spirit visage. If it's 1v1 and I'm chasing, then I might be able to burn my flash (if it's up) to get within ult range, but I only have level 2 movement and a lot of people have ghost or flash or boosted run speed as described in previous pots. I -did- catch someone, maybe Xin, I was chasing once due to warwick's howling E speed boost. Even so, I had to chase him like a quarter of the map, all the way to his front tower, before I could even get close enough to hungering strke him.Mister Wilhelm said:
So, assuming I get within ult range, I do some given amount of ult magic damage (say 300-400 after magic resist at mid levels?), hit them with a hungering strike, and they start running again. By that amount of time, unless all their front towers are gone, I think they can probably make it within range of either a teammate or a tower. If I had red buff then I might be able to slow them enough to hit them with autoattacks at least.
I also tried going with a tristana to double-attack a graves, but he just lol'd at us and nuked us both. (I later ult'd him and jumped him to get him to like 50 hp but he just lol'd and healed back up with autoattacks after I was dead.) Those were examples where I shouldn't have attacked someone even if they were overextending, though.
*edit* Just to be clear, I'm not saying you're wrong at all, I'm just saying that in my experience people have an annoying ability to get away even though the overall build has worked well in the past. Yesterday were BAD games for me, plus I would get unlucky with stuff like shaco accidentally stealing the blue buff, or my cable modem dying for 5 minutes mid-game.
Part of the game doesn't imply it's good for the game, remember.NemesisPrime said:
In MOBA games, time management is very important. If ganking has a poor value proposition; that is, players feel like wasting a Flash isn't paying off as much as farming, they won't do it. This leads to less action, and is overall undesirable. The low mobility + sight proliferation already means you're forcing a jungler to be the sole ganker. The fact that there's a very good chance the ganker won't even succeed most of the time due to basic game mechanics makes it even worse.
So bought Leblanc, did terrible as her. Some reason telling my team "I'm new to leblanc, putting me mid wouldn't be wise" would never sink in.
Think i need to be more aggressive overall. Also her E skillshot is surprisingly difficult to land, not sure why I'm having troubles with it.
Think i need to be more aggressive overall. Also her E skillshot is surprisingly difficult to land, not sure why I'm having troubles with it.
Did you try her in a bot game first? I don't mean to be rude, but for some champions (lee sin for me) you may really want to try some bot games to practice mechanics before diving into PVP. To this day I don't know offhand how to do lee sin's forward and back harass dash, and I think leblanc has something similar.Ferrio said:
You need a kill before 6 or at 6 or LeBlanc will fall off so fast it's not even funny.
Harass with Q. When the timing is right, W to approach, Q + E. Wait or them to flash first before you use E or else it'll easily miss. Another option is to Q first, then W, wait for Flash, then E.
Once you have ult you can do this combo: Q + R + W + E or W + Q + R + E.
Q, combined with your R, is your main damage dealer so level that first.
Harass with Q. When the timing is right, W to approach, Q + E. Wait or them to flash first before you use E or else it'll easily miss. Another option is to Q first, then W, wait for Flash, then E.
Once you have ult you can do this combo: Q + R + W + E or W + Q + R + E.
Q, combined with your R, is your main damage dealer so level that first.
Blizzard said:
1. I tried to, but people invited me before I could
2. I hate bots, they aren't a realstic expectation how players are going to act.
Halycon said:
Ya I know. I tried to score early kills, just everytime I'd get them really really low and they'd flash, or I'd run outta mana or something woudl happen. I swear one game karthas got away with under 50 health like 3 times.
Also controlling her clone is so awkward. Holding the alt key? What idiot thought of that?
SouthernDragon
Member
Ladies, ladies.
ElectraStar is now part of the community.
ElectraStar is now part of the community.
Her clone is useless, it's just there for getting a second of leeway before they figure out who is he real LeBlanc.
You might need ignite and amplifying tome to start. AP runes can help as well. LeBlanc requires a lot of effort from your part but her pay off is pretty good. Since you like Cass you should stick with LeBlanc to see what she can do.
You might need ignite and amplifying tome to start. AP runes can help as well. LeBlanc requires a lot of effort from your part but her pay off is pretty good. Since you like Cass you should stick with LeBlanc to see what she can do.
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