Support NeoGAF

[dimb]

Fuck that I'm running promote mid.

Okay, well the likelihood of you being alive to make promote useful if they're running Ignite and you aren't seems low. I dunno, I haven't seen or experimented with Promote yet but that's just how things seem.

In a pinch they could even just ignite your Promoted minion.

 

[FutureZombie]

I used promote on Singed last game and it was amazing.

Also, just because people aren't using cleanse now, doesn't mean they won't wise up and begin using it soon.

 

[Ferrio]

Okay, well the likelihood of you being alive to make promote useful if they're running Ignite and you aren't seems low. I dunno, I haven't seen or experimented with Promote yet but that's just how things seem.

In a pinch they could even just ignite your Promoted minion.

I think it'll be great for my cass/leblanc. Bully them outta the lane to go heal, promote seige while they're gone. Laugh.

Promoting a super minion will be hilarious.

 

[Haly]

Exhaust/Ignite is proactive, Cleanse is reactive. Proactive spells are always preferable to reactive spells because their usage is dictated by you and not by your opponents.

Besides it's not like they're going to wait for you to exhaust/ignite to cleanse, they're going to be cleansing the first stun/snare that hits them if it's dangerous, and after that you're free to ehxaust/ignite. Cleanse is for very specific champions that absolutely need to get CC off themselves in order to make the most of their abilities, such as Trynd and Yi. No one's going to run cleanse solely to counter exhaust/ignite.

 

[dimb]

I used promote on Singed last game and it was amazing.

Also, just because people aren't using cleanse now, doesn't mean they won't wise up and begin using it soon.

What are they supposed to wise up to? That they should run Cleanse instead of Flash so that they can escape from combat rather than avoiding it entirely? Because that's still what Flash does. Oh, and Flash can also put them into range for a kill. Its uses are both offensive and defensive. And Cleanse/Flash just isn't going to give you any edge in combat, so you don't want to run that.

 

[Ferrio]

What are they supposed to wise up to? That they should run Cleanse instead of Flash so that they can escape from combat rather than avoiding it entirely? Because that's still what Flash does.

Wonder how significant the 50 range is.

 

[Haly]

Wonder how significant the 50 range is.

Pretty significant.

A lot of place you could flash through before are now too thick.

 

[FutureZombie]

What are they supposed to wise up to? That they should run Cleanse instead of Flash so that they can escape from combat rather than avoiding it entirely? Because that's still what Flash does. Oh, and Flash can also put them into range for a kill. Its uses are both offensive and defensive. And Cleanse/Flash just isn't going to give you any edge in combat, so you don't want to run that.

They should wise up to the fact that cleanse removes ignite and exhaust. I've seen three Tryndameres today, and none of them used cleanse.

 

[dimb]

I saw a rumor on Reddit that Nome is working at Riot now. Congratulations if it's true.

 

[Vanillalite]

Promote late game is redonkulous because everyone will be team fighting in a lane and then you'll be like WTF how did their other lane get so far. Then you roll over and notice they used Promote, and it's like WTF....

 

[Blizzard]

I saw a rumor on Reddit that Nome is working at Riot now. Congratulations if it's true.

That traitor! We must bug him in gafchatlolchannel and ask him if it's true. (congratulations)

 

[Vanillalite]

Exhaust/Ignite is proactive, Cleanse is reactive. Proactive spells are always preferable to reactive spells because their usage is dictated by you and not by your opponents.

Besides it's not like they're going to wait for you to exhaust/ignite to cleanse, they're going to be cleansing the first stun/snare that hits them if it's dangerous, and after that you're free to ehxaust/ignite. Cleanse is for very specific champions that absolutely need to get CC off themselves in order to make the most of their abilities, such as Trynd and Yi. No one's going to run cleanse solely to counter exhaust/ignite.

Problem with this theory is Cleanse has half the cool down of Ignite/Exhaust now so you can use it a funk ton more now.

 

[Haly]

Half?

Now cleanses summoner spell debuffs such as Exhaust's movement speed and damage reduction and Ignite's damage over time
Cooldown increased to 210 seconds from 150 seconds
Improved Cleanse no longer reduces cooldown, but now extends the secondary disable reduction buff by 1 second

So:

Cleanse - 210
Ignite - 180
Exhaust - 210

 

[Dooraven]

Not really sure which lanes are going to be using promote. You generally don't want bot to push, mid may work depending on champ.

Push comps are a bit more viable now with this though.

 

[Vanillalite]

Half?

So:

Cleanse - 210
Ignite - 180
Exhaust - 210

Why did I think originally everyone was QQing because Cleanse was getting cdr back when the summoner spell stuff 1st came to light?

 

[Ferrio]

Not really sure which lanes are going to be using promote. You generally don't want bot to push, mid may work depending on champ.

Push comps are a bit more viable now with this though.

I like the idea cause lots of times when I'm mid and I've been dominating the person in mid, I still can't roam since it'd leave the lane unprotected. I'd feel more confident if I could promote first then go running around.

 

[shintoki]

So basically everyone can jungle now with ease correct?

 

[Ferrio]

So basically everyone can jungle now with ease correct?

Character? No. Player? No idea, haven't tried it yet. Kinda depressing me I can't get the extra xp stuff without killing my damage....

 

[SouthernDragon]

I saw a rumor on Reddit that Nome is working at Riot now. Congratulations if it's true.

Clearly, Nome saw so many problems with LoL that he went to Riot to help them get their house in order.

In all seriousness, congratulations! If you can move Riot to make more DotA-like items, I'd love you forever.

 

[Nome]

If you can move Riot to make more DotA-like items, I'd love you forever.

Out of curiosity, what do you mean by more DotA-like items? I've actually found LoL to have a wider variety of items.

 

[Haly]

First item: Warmogs
Second item: Boots
Third Item: Frozen Mallet

DAT FARM.

(I had 4.5k hp at the end)

Out of curiosity, what do you mean by more DotA-like items? I've actually found LoL to have a wider variety of items.

More significant activated abilities. Although there's a wider range of stats/combinations available to champions, all of them are stats boosts of some kind. It's just mix and match your preferred stats. If items were removed, and you directly bought stats (say, you spend 400g on a Scroll of Attack to permanently boost your attack by 10), the game would be more or less exactly the same.

Of course you could make a similar argument for DOTA.

 

[Vanillalite]

So basically everyone can jungle now with ease correct?

With Ease? No

Jungle in Some Fashion? Seems like 90% of the champs can

It doesn't make it easy for everyone, but it makes it easy for a ton of characters. Plus a ton of other characters that couldn't jungle before now can.

Issue you run into is just because they can jungle doesn't mean they can gank. Plus they might only be able to jungle early on with both smite and surge which really is probably not a great spell for their class. Still in THEORY anyways a ton of characters now have the ability.

Hell I had a friend solo blue off the bat with Nocturne earlier without a leash using Surge and Smite and they are only level 20.

Warwick Jungle is redonkculous in terms of HP as if it wasn't already. People are getting sub 3:30 times with Rammus now, and that's supposedly just average. LOL

 

[Dubbedinenglish]

Also, just because people aren't using cleanse now, doesn't mean they won't wise up and begin using it soon.

One word, Tryndamere. You cannot stop him now :/

 

[Vanillalite]

If Trendy isn't 1st in line during the next patch round of nerfs Morello just needs to quit now.

 

[Ferga]

Lee sin jungle has certainly gotten stronger with the new masteries.

That is all.

I will try out my other junglers and see how supports fair soon

 

[Vanillalite]

Lee sin jungle has certainly gotten stronger with the new masteries.

That is all.

I will try out my other junglers and see how supports fair soon

What did you go? 21/9/0? 9/21/0? Some combo of the two? Did you go into Utility to grab the increased buff time?

I know a lot of people were debating on how to split things up now as junglers see some great benefits from all of the trees.

 

[Boken]

Out of curiosity, what do you mean by more DotA-like items? I've actually found LoL to have a wider variety of items.

I think he means game changing items. Items in LoL are in the "do what you do better" category, where as items in DotA allow you change the game as required (generally - strong actives, BKB, Manta style, cyclone stick, hex stick etc).

Honestly, while I'd like more strategic options in item choice + in team fights, I think that LoL champions aren't strong enough for such impactful items (compared to DotA champions).

What did you go? 21/9/0? 9/21/0? Some combo of the two? Did you go into Utility to grab the increased buff time?

I know a lot of people were debating on how to split things up now as junglers see some great benefits from all of the trees.

Fastest jungler would probably be 21/9/0 but 0/15/16 (taking awareness) might be viable for those who already clear the jungle very well and want awareness, taking buff dur on the way (this is debatable, I'm not sure yet). I think 9/21/0 scales best into the late game for most bruiser/tank junglers though.

 

[Ferrio]

Testing the trees with Jungle shyvana, I'm liking 21-0-9. It's not as easy as a def mastery jungle, but it's masteries are more helpful end game. After the first few levels those 9 in the def tree are worthless and that bugs me.

 

[Vanillalite]

Testing the trees with Jungle shyvana, I'm liking 21-0-9. It's not as easy as a def mastery jungle, but it's masteries are more helpful end game. After the first few levels those 9 in the def tree are worthless and that bugs me.

I thought the same thing, BUT I heard people saying if you got 21-9-0 you can power level so fast in the jungle that you become an OP gank machine which can basically end games before they really begin.

I'm not saying I'd agree with them as I figure most really good evenly matched teams will end up fighting it out for a while. Yet when you hear people saying they can do a full clear double buff in 3:05 I don't know wtf to believe anymore.

 

[Ferga]

What did you go? 21/9/0? 9/21/0? Some combo of the two? Did you go into Utility to grab the increased buff time?

I know a lot of people were debating on how to split things up now as junglers see some great benefits from all of the trees.

0/21/9

take a point in the 9 damage returned to monsters thing

My jungle time got cut down by at least 10 seconds due to the extra health. and ganks at level 3 are more effective

mind me though since i like to play an unkillable warmogs lee who cuts through a whole team by himself

 

[markot]

Maybe Nome went to work on Rise of Immortals?!

 

[Dooraven]

Maybe Nome went to work on Rise of Immortals?!

Lol. Petroglyph is in Nevada though, and they're moving to Cali.

 

[Vanillalite]

StoneWall's Youtube Page has a ton of new vids up already detailing his new jungling strats post patch.

 

[Ferrio]

Jungle clear in 3:40 with 21-0-9 on shyvana

 

[Vanillalite]

Jungle clear in 3:40 with 21-0-9 on shyvana

How does that compare to prepatch?

 

[Ferrio]

How does that compare to prepatch?

She was one of (if not the fastest) before.. somewhere around 3:50. But my path is more efficient now.

I could make it faster if I did def masteries, but again I gimp myself mid/late game doing that. She needs red buff to be effective ganker.. so that 20% extra time is needed imo.

 

[Blizzard]

Out of curiosity, what do you mean by more DotA-like items? I've actually found LoL to have a wider variety of items.

Your tag says S2 Games. Did you actually change to Riot? :O

 

[Ferrio]

Surge is fucking awesome btw. No wonder it isn't aura, it'd be broken as hell.

 

[dimb]

Surge is fucking awesome btw. No wonder it isn't aura, it'd be broken as hell.

Pros pooped all over it on State of the League tonight.

Just saying.

 

[Blizzard]

The cooldown timer on Surge is obscenely long. Exhaust seems like a better spell as it gives a debuff similar to Surge while slowing the enemy speed greatly. Seems much more practical. On a caster I think the bonus of an extra Ignite is still going to be better too. Surge might play out for someone like Akali I guess who will really benefit from both stats, but most of the time I think the burst and extended damage of Ignite or the utility of Exhaust are going to win out.

Not really. Flat amount of AP and attack speed. I dunno. It's not that good. I can't think of a late game situation where 410 ranged true damage with a super healing debuff falls off. You also have that 10 AP from Ignite whenever it's on cooldown. Surge just seems bad to me, but if you like it, whatever. The GAF people who use Fortify have to move on to something else I guess.

Pros pooped all over it on State of the League tonight.

Just saying.

So you're saying we should use Surge, right? Almost as good as Fortify?

 

[dimb]

I'm saying you should run Leona support bot with Heal.

 

[Vanillalite]

Pros pooped all over it on State of the League tonight.

Just saying.

I like it early game because it's a 110% guarantee in early game where as ignite or exhaust could get cleansed. IDK. I played one game before coming over to my GFs and my 1st lane kill with Yi prelevel 6 was purely because of Surge + E.

EDIT: I wouldn't like it so much if it didn't last for 12 seconds. Exhaust only lasts 2.5.

 

[Ferrio]

Pros pooped all over it on State of the League tonight.

Just saying.

The attack speed + ap for shyvana is just too good to be pooped on. For hybrids it seems awesome.

Also why are people acting like you cant' 'get bot exhaust and surge?

 

[Blizzard]

I used that 6300 hardearned IP, possibly my first instabuy champion. You have to trigger the second E hop very quickly, more quickly than I expected. If you wait until he reaches the spear, it's almost too late to do the second hop, seems to me. You have to plan to do a double hop and then almost trigger quickly while he's jumping if I understand correctly.

Also, 1.0 AP ratio ult with like 70 second cooldown makes me so happy. *edit* It's not like it is going to do insane damage though since the base damage is 450, unlike some ults. Unless it does the damage to everyone...I'll have to check.

 

[dimb]

Also, 1.0 AP ratio ult with like 70 second cooldown makes me so happy.

Let me treat you to normal draft chat:

TheePvtParts: it is kinda ridiclous that he can use his ult on land

 

[Blizzard]

Let me treat you to normal draft chat:

Landshark! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fHPvT8zVXT0

 

[AcridMeat]

Getting kills with Fizz's ult is the most satisfying thing I've experienced in LoL.

 

[Ferrio]

Witnessed my first flash fail by a Monkey King trying to escape through the dragon area. Was hilarious.

 

[shintoki]

You know its a good game when you have to report your entire team... and you won.

 

[AcridMeat]

I quite like Fizz.