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League of Legends |OT| Free to play Dota clone (PC)
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SouthernDragon
Member
Just as I am happy that both SF and BB exist, I am happy that DotA and LoL exist.
I wish that they would make changes to make LoL a bit more DotA-ish, but not to that extreme. Hell, I'm not even opposed to denying anymore.
I wish that they would make changes to make LoL a bit more DotA-ish, but not to that extreme. Hell, I'm not even opposed to denying anymore.
Legato.Reborn-
Member
Aaaaaaaaaaaand back to League of Legends discussion..
How is everyone specing in masteries now?
How is everyone specing in masteries now?
Mostly point dumping into a spec based on the intended role. On offensive AD oriented champions almost all of my points fall into that tree. Defensive tree goes to tanks or other tanky champions (usually top). Utility tree goes towards support characters. More tree diversity going on in jungling than other stuff to be honest. I've got a Utility jungling tree, a Defensive jungling tree, and an Offensive crit based one (mostly for Gangplank). All of my jungling trees are going nine deep in the Defensive tree because Bladed Armor really helps, particularly with Wraith camp. AP offensive tree is the only one I dump less in, as there's less useful stuff in the offensive tree for them so I'm going 21/0/9 on that.Legato.Reborn- said:
On specs that invest nine into a secondary tree the obvious pick ups are Runic Affinity for the buff durations in Utility, Veteran's Scars for HP in Defense, and Arcane Knowledge or Weapon Expertise in Offense depending on character type.
It's kind of amazing how much the Offense tree seems to be buffed. I'm really enjoying it.Legato.Reborn- said:
I'm also happy they decided to include Energy considerations into the Mana masteries. I do wish they would put the Blue/Red Buff mastery lower in the Utility tree though, to make jungling more accessible.
Observations of the new masteries:
MORE POWER! AD carries got the biggest power boost (10% arpen) but with a lot of mages switching to offensive tree, AP carries are doing more damage too.
But -
BULKIER EARLY GAME! With Veteran Scars so accessible (and for one point!) a lot of people are taking their 9 other points into defense (so 21/9/0) since the first 9 points of defense are so much more powerful than the 9 utility.
TOWERS DIE! With everybody in general being stronger and the anti tower masteries, towers are falling a lot quicker than usual. Means mistakes early game become more punishable. Also makes games slightly shorter.
HOLY SHIT JUNGLERS! Junglers are all SO FAST now. Amumu hitting six when solos are six. Malphite hitting 6 just behind the solos. Rammus ganking ~10s before he should be. Skarner now clears so fast his camps dont respawn in time. With the buff to jungler power, more champions CAN jungle, but who are the best junglers still hasn't changed much other than level 6 dependant junglers getting a little bump. I truely fear junglers now.
OMG NIMBLENESS?? Dodge runes completely devalued now. Everybody switching to armor runes. Lack of nimbleness means some champions are easier to kite (udyr, singed etc) since initiator isn't as powerful.
Comments: the early points of utility (i.e., 9 points) are a little weak compared to offense and defense trees - not sure if intentional or in need of fix.
MORE POWER! AD carries got the biggest power boost (10% arpen) but with a lot of mages switching to offensive tree, AP carries are doing more damage too.
But -
BULKIER EARLY GAME! With Veteran Scars so accessible (and for one point!) a lot of people are taking their 9 other points into defense (so 21/9/0) since the first 9 points of defense are so much more powerful than the 9 utility.
TOWERS DIE! With everybody in general being stronger and the anti tower masteries, towers are falling a lot quicker than usual. Means mistakes early game become more punishable. Also makes games slightly shorter.
HOLY SHIT JUNGLERS! Junglers are all SO FAST now. Amumu hitting six when solos are six. Malphite hitting 6 just behind the solos. Rammus ganking ~10s before he should be. Skarner now clears so fast his camps dont respawn in time. With the buff to jungler power, more champions CAN jungle, but who are the best junglers still hasn't changed much other than level 6 dependant junglers getting a little bump. I truely fear junglers now.
OMG NIMBLENESS?? Dodge runes completely devalued now. Everybody switching to armor runes. Lack of nimbleness means some champions are easier to kite (udyr, singed etc) since initiator isn't as powerful.
Comments: the early points of utility (i.e., 9 points) are a little weak compared to offense and defense trees - not sure if intentional or in need of fix.
SouthernDragon
Member
Sounds like the changes in the Masteries are for the better.
Can't wait to jump back in, eventually.
Also, I need to figure out what the deal is with LoLReplay causing lag...
Can't wait to jump back in, eventually.
Also, I need to figure out what the deal is with LoLReplay causing lag...
I'm pretty sure moving the exp mastery up the tree is intentional. There's no way they didn't test the new masteries with jungling. Giving junglers the exp bonus on top of that would've been too much.
And this way, junglers aren't pigeonholed into x/x/9
And this way, junglers aren't pigeonholed into x/x/9
Yes but my point is that Buff duration is less accessible because the 8 points before it are worth very little compared to the other trees. Nothing to do with awareness. Accessible is a bad word choice though - it's just not worth it to get (+4 minion damage, +6% AS, +10%arpen vs 2% MS and +20% buff duration?). It all depends on how valuable 20% buff is to the jungler. Which is for the best probably.
thestopsign
Member
I'm bringing back Karma support guys. It's going to happen, with or without buffs. The new masteries help her a lot as well.
I haven't been taking the buff duration as Skarner, who is pretty mana hungry if you're rolling. Hasn't been hurting my game, and I prefer the investment into the offensive tree or defensive tree for early game ganks. I've been rocking the jungle but maybe that's just because Skarner is OP.
Yeah, the lowered mana cost is the key to his success though. So easy to spam slow and chase people down with your shield now. I can't think of a champion who will lock you down harder if you goes after you.Blizzard said:
GP is still the best though. First LoLGAF game with him
Best part is having TF teleport in to gank you and killing him in two hits.
Is it possible that the other team was terrible though? Your team has twice as many kills as their team, and there are hardly ANY defensive items on their team.Dance In My Blood said:
Also, considering Fizz's ult is a skillshot and is apparently glitchy about latching onto people, and considering the base is only like 450, I hope it doesn't get nerfed.
TF used to be considered pretty strong, but he's just a weak champion now. I'm not really a fan of the card pulling mechanic. I can pull the cards I want when I'm laning, but during team fights when you need your stun the most things get a bit too crazy, and you can't guarantee you'll have it right when you need it. Like Sion, it's also broadcast to the world what you're going to do. I can still do alright with him sometimes. Maybe I'll play him again some, because Surge seems like it would actually be alright on him.Blizzard said:
I was two shotting everyone though. GP crits are on his Q can get pretty crazy, especially when you snowball.
Looks like Vlad is getting his legendary skin next: http://na.leagueoflegends.com/news/rivers-shall-run-red
The picture links is "legendary-skin.jpg"
The picture links is "legendary-skin.jpg"
FutureZombie
Banned
Just won a 4v5 where the other team surrendered. That's just about as sweet a win as you can ever get!
bjaelke said:
yeah it's this one
http://i.imgur.com/DbXZHh.jpg
I really can't see vlad having a legendary skin. A legendary skin to me means alot of changed and unique particles and sounds. Vlad... is just blood...
know what i mean?
FutureZombie
Banned
They need to make more humorous skins. That's where the real money is.
Legato.Reborn-
Member
Nome said:
I'm certain it's to keep the AD carries from having red for hours at a time.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
bjaelke said:
Basically everyone can do this now though. The key differentiators are 1) Do you have to take surge to steam roll the jungle and 2) even if you can roll through the jungle and grab double buff in a OMGWTFBBQ time do you actually have any good ganking abilities?
A lot of characters don't need surge to make it through (even if taking it would shave 10 secs off their time), but they still fail at just not having any good ganking moves.
I didn't run surge on him. His starting armor has just been increased to 22, making him one of the toughest level 1 tanks after Rammus and Shen. The passive on W is aoe damage which has just had a cooldown reduction. Activating W gives him 20% increased attack damage and armor at level 1. Coupled with the new masteries and his passive, that makes him almost immune to creep damage. I managed to clear the jungle using only 3 pots and experienced no down time during the jungling phase. I assume he can gank at level 4 if you go w-e-w-q and pick ghost as the secondary spell.
The ease at which he can dodge abilities seems strong. Dunno about the rest of the package, since his laning seems pretty weak. Situationally, I think he can be a very good pick, but I think you'd want to know who you're laning against in advance.Uchip said:
In other news it looks like it's official, dodge is being removed from the game at some point down the road. Thank god.
It begins. I swear you people just don't want me to be able to play any champions I buy. :'(Uchip said:
Yay for dodge being removed.Dance In My Blood said:
Have you played a lot of Fizz so far? I haven't tried him PVP, but even with bots, it seems almost impossible to dodge attacks unless they're slow skillshots. In addition, you have to be VERY fast doing the double hop. If you wait until he reaches the spear, it's practically too late, so you need to plan the double hop in advance. Plus, the hop can't make it over certain walls unless there is some way to get extremely close to them. For instance, if you are inside the enemy base, where Caitlyn's net can push her through the wall, Fizz's hop will apparently NOT go through the wall because you can't stand next to the wall.
At any rate, it seems to be a half second or less, so you would have to work around lag, fast skillshots, and everything else to burn 100 (up to 120?) each time you think a skillshot is about to happen. I guess it could be used to dodge some lock-on attacks, but they'd also have to be slow for you to have time to trigger E assuming you're not CC'd or silenced.
Mana is another big thing, at least until you get 1000+ mana pool. Aren't there other champions whose ults cost less than Fizz's hop? At level 1 if you want to try to dodge something, that's 1/3 or 1/4 of your mana pool for the 100-110 mana E hop. The ult is 150 mana. Using E much below level 10-14, unless you have blue buff, seems very costly to me. Plus it has a 12 second cooldown until late in the game.
Yet another big issue is laning against ranged people. Against even soraka + ashe bots, it was nearly impossible for me to kill creeps at my tower or do anything to them since soraka instantly silences, cancelling any sort of dodge or escape you might have, and you can be kited with slow. From what someone was saying in chat, I think they kept getting destroyed with Fizz in mid lane (presumably against ranged people).
I think if you were playing 1v1 he might be feasible, but 1v2 is very difficult. In general I would suggest that one of his biggest weaknesses is ranged people. If you dash to close the distance, you have no way to escape unless you burn flash (and were even carrying flash), or use the E hop (which only works if the person you're charging didn't silence or stun you). If you use Q + E to try to poke and run away, then you just burned 150+ mana which severely hurts at low levels, and at low levels that does about...50-100 damage before magic resistance reduction, if I recall correctly.
This is in comparison to other champions who have pokes (parley, Caitlyn's Q, Galio's bomb? Zilena's bomb) that might do 200-400 damage for probably less mana.
These are my thoughts so far. He seems quite capable and once I play 300 more bot games maybe I can try him in PVP, but it seems like there are very noticeable weaknesses. If there is a significant nerf to him, I feel that he may fall into almost useless territory.
Why would you laugh? Don't most champions start with 0.7 attack speed? Clearing blue or red with that sort of attack speed and no heal seems quite difficult to me. Fizz was able to solo blue buff with only a lifesteal skull and no potion, but only with surge, and only with like 30 HP left. Fizz is an example of a champion who has no lifesteal, no heal, and no AS boost which can make jungling slow.Dance In My Blood said:
Not at all. Probably not a champion I would buy, but if I have fun with him during free week there's always a chance. I was just posting the impression I get based on what I've seen of him in games.Blizzard said:
It is very easy to clear red and blue, or even just do the leveling to three and go back for red + gank. Surge is a very bad summoner spell for ganks and it gives you no escape or mobility. Even running Exhaust at least gives you a chance to use it on an attacker and get away. I don't like Surge, and I like it even less on junglers. I don't think the buff from Surge is even that great anyways for jungling. It's going to help you clear one camp maybe, and the cooldown timer on it is forever and you're left without a summoner you might need on a gank.Blizzard said:
Most champions are going to be around the .6 attack speed range at level one. Surge is going to bump you up to .8-ish or something in that case. Totally not worth it.
Surge on a .7 attack speed character (I think Fizz was slightly faster, like .75) will push you to .98 attack speed or higher. I feel the attack speed boost really helps kill jungle monsters, cf. Warwick with his AS boost. It was mostly an experiment for me.Dance In My Blood said:
And I'm not saying it's a good spell for junglers, I was just pointing out that with some champions jungling seems very hard unless you have lots of lifesteal runes or something, since some champions don't have a way to heal (Warwick, Master Yi), a way to buff AS (Warwick), a way to buff armor (Riven, Rammus, Malphite), or abilities that work especially well against minions (Nunu's consume, Master Yi's Q).
So that was why I felt golems especially could be difficult. I could just have the wrong runse or masteries though.
First of all, Yi doesn't jungle with any heal. While somewhat random, he has a fast clear time with a potential extra Smite. And I've never heard of anyone jungling with lifesteal runes. I don't think such a thing even exists, but maybe I'm wrong. Most champions rely on the armor + five pots to heal through jungle damage at early levels, and have enough lifesteal, heal, or mitigation to last after that.Blizzard said:
Your job as a jungler isn't to clear out the jungle. It's to maximize experience gain and provide help to lanes with ganks and pushing enemy champions out of lane so your team can freely farm. Surge is honestly terrible for doing that, and if you need it to clear the jungle you probably aren't playing a champion who should be jungling. Not running Flash or Ghost is just stupid. You need one or the other in almost all situations, although Cleanse can now be used in lieu of those.
I just figured master yi might heal between jungle camps in some situations. I never play him seriously so I am mostly ignorant there.
My point was that I thought some champions should not really be jungling and/or they have a hard time doing so. This was just to counter one specific thing you said: "Who has to take Surge to clear the jungle? I laughed." My point is that some champions may have a hard time clearing the jungle, or a hard time jungling, or shouldn't be in the jungle at all. Those would be champions who might "have to take Surge" to clear it, even if they clearly shouldn't if they're a terrible jungler champion.
My point was that I thought some champions should not really be jungling and/or they have a hard time doing so. This was just to counter one specific thing you said: "Who has to take Surge to clear the jungle? I laughed." My point is that some champions may have a hard time clearing the jungle, or a hard time jungling, or shouldn't be in the jungle at all. Those would be champions who might "have to take Surge" to clear it, even if they clearly shouldn't if they're a terrible jungler champion.
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