If this is true, wouldn't premade 5v5 teams with OP tier 1 champions and no jungler dominate? We need to give it a try!
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League of Legends |OT| Free to play Dota clone (PC)
- Thread starter blitz64
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It sounds like we should at this point in time. Who are the tier one champions? (I am guessing Tryndamere, Vayne, and Tristana are some of them?)
Champions it is okay to pick: Xerath, Morgana, Rammus, Irelia, Cassiopeia, Skarner, Udyr, Ryze, Karthus, Galio, Gragas, Tristana, Kog'maw, Sona, Vayne, Kassadin, Yorick, Alistar, Cho, Nidalee, Trynd, Shaco (if the other team is not good), Lee Sin, Sion, Fiddlesticks, Kennen, Vayne, Nasus.
These champions will all win/dominate lanes at capable levels of play against champions not on the list.
These champions will all win/dominate lanes at capable levels of play against champions not on the list.
This is wrong. The jungle sucks for exp and gold now. Ganking is vastly more profitable. People are just being tricked by the quick respawns. Jungle farming is a trap. It annoys me when I get junglers who don't realise this.
Rofl, Trynd is easily a top pick. Just don't pick him early enough to get counter picked.
Nobody good will get ganked by a low exp/low gold jungler. Meta will shift to support junglers with gold per ten stuff at high levels of play. I laugh at junglers coming at me in the lane and just throw down some CC or damage and walk back to my tower.
I'm not sure how support junglers will even work, least no ad ones. Sounds like the jungle scales pretty harshly now.
While these are obviously good champions, I think that a few champions not on that list probably counter champions on the list if it were a 1v1 lane situation for some reason. Thanks for the list. I still hope to potentially get decent with Ryze and Sion in the next year or two.
I also thought Riot already did a very quick patch that made jungle monsters give more EXP and gold again. On one hand that seems like a kneejerk reaction, but on the other hand there was that quote that made it sound like Riot had bigger plans but implemented half of them and hadn't tested it all. :/
Nope, thats the jungle benefits gank junglers the most right now. Rammus, Shaco, Lee Sin, Gangplank bla bla. They ganked early pre-jungle change, and to them nothing really changed. They can still gank early. Every other jungler type sucks now. Additionally, the quick respawns allow junglers to camp a lane and constantly gank it.
Junglers with strong lvl 2-3 ganks are the best at the moment.
Almost every champion can be counter picked. The few that can't be are.... Zilean, Kennen, Yorick. Generally people dont counter pick bot either. Graves also needs to make that list. He's still a beast.
Kennan's counter pick is Janna. Janna is the counter pick to melee range AE characters. Fiddle, Kat, etc. And if you are good, Anumu and Galio.
Of course, Janna is too awesome.
When I'm talking about support junglers I mean ones who can get by through the jungle without needing Wriggles first, who can build gold per ten items and tank rather than deal damage. I don't mean like jungle Soraka and Blitz.
Levels two and three are the only time you can reliably gank now. Shaco can b/s his way to a fast level three but will fall off after that. The solution: "Oh it's Shaco on the enemy team. I should probably not just overextended at level 1/2 and let him get a free kill off me and snowball." Anyone with a modicum of brain power can figure out how easy it is to shut down early gank junglers.
Additionally, GP is not a candidate for fast level two or three ganks. And I don't consider his ganks that great anyways. Support junglers can also pull off early ganks, like Maokai, and Rammus is still played as support. The strongest junglers are the AOE based ones who don't rely on ganks, like Udyr, Cho and Maokai.
Xerath will beat Kennen in lane. Karthus too maybe.
I had my first two ranked wins yesterday and I think one of them had our Anivia get first blood from a Kennen mid. In that game he probably died at least two more times in lane before the game even moved on.
Of course, my evidence is completely useless since the Kennen was terrible, but still. =P
No, her slow, stun, and AOE damage does make her a good counter to Kennen. Not like a hard counter but she'll do okay or well. Morgana will also slap Kennen around in lane all day.
thestopsign
Member
I find I do well against Morgana as Kennen. If you can avoid her root early, you should beat her easily.
Not that hard to hit her Q. And her ult stops Kennen in his tracks.
Kennen doesn't outrange Xerath. This is just...blatantly false. You also aren't accounting for the fact that Xerath is going to hit multiple spells from a range, and can do it through the creep wave. As long as you stand behind minions Kennen can't hit you. Same goes for Karthus. You can drop bombs on Kennen no problem without giving him that line of sight.
Xerath is OP beyond belief. He will push everyone out of mid. That's just how it is.
Morganna says hello and that you are wrong.
While Morgana shouldn't be able to win, she shouldn't be pushed back either. She is too strong to lose to another distance caster. Pool clears out waves for a low mana cost, and the shield prevents ganks and stuns.
I'll say a counter to Xerath. Soraka. If you can't beat em, put someone in there who never has to leave.
morganna wins vs xerath in SR too. Tormented soil and black shield along with her passive. She has so much sustain and pushing. In dominion she is a beast too.
I don't think you guys understand how Xerath works, primarily because he isn't around as much as he should be. The same thing happened after Yorick got buffed. I posted that he was stupidly good but nobody in here believed me. Now look, he is easily regarded one of the best top lanes in the game.
You cannot sit back and farm against Xerath. It doesn't work with his range. He can continuously hit you even at your turret, and if you think he's vulnerable while he's rooted and try to take advantage of it he can instantly unroot and zip away. You will push people not only back, but force them to head back to base, and the level advantage will stack in his favor so quick when it's AP vs. AP. Xerath can cast two Arcanopulses for every Dark Binding Morgana can cast. Like, seriously, she does not just walk into lane and win.
SouthernDragon
Member
oh god lol i love you
Xerath and Skarner too good.
And because Morgana came up as a counter to Xerath I am just going to post high level play where Dan Dinh makes the matchup look pretty foolish.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2DodCAdpU4
And because Morgana came up as a counter to Xerath I am just going to post high level play where Dan Dinh makes the matchup look pretty foolish.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2DodCAdpU4
The game bugged and I was still rolling Utility masteries by the way.
How could I miss my AP mastery page?
Inskipp
Member
Have you guys tried switching between using full (meaning marks and quints) AD or ArPen runes for AD carries? Which ones do you think are better/optimal? (this is with a full 21- spec on AD, obviously)
Also, do you use mostly ArPen or AD runes while jungling with AD junglers (Lee Sin/Trundle/Nocturne etc)?
Also, do you use mostly ArPen or AD runes while jungling with AD junglers (Lee Sin/Trundle/Nocturne etc)?
SouthernDragon
Member
ArPen is better in almost every case.
Apparently AD is better on Tristana. Dunno why.
That said, Sivir OP.
Apparently AD is better on Tristana. Dunno why.
That said, Sivir OP.
I have seen crushing ranked game defeats, 2-18 kills, 20 minute surrenders, that sort of thing, but somehow I was fine until a 66 minute victory. That made me rage more than anything.
It was 66 minutes against 4 people. Amumu was presumably the highest ELO and never joined the entire match. Then it was 5-10 minutes against 3 people. Veigar was 8/0 and died for the first time when he disconnected and we jumped on him midlane during the disconnect. He stayed out for a few minutes and finally came back. We lost 4 people at once in their base then, I think.
I was a terrible Caitlyn, dying twice but not doing much (1466 crits on minions, but didn't seem to do much versus champions?), but I almost think if we had been aced they would have won. Our team was constantly split up, begging in chat hardly did anything, and just when you thought you had the group together, one would go off to the jungle, or recall, or get dragon 60 minutes into the game, or go baron again (only to lose 4 people and wait another minute to respawn).
At one point we had 4 people mid, ready to take a tower or the nexus (no inhibitor mid?) or kill veigar, and kennen stayed top lane to kill a tower after like 20 pings for him to join the group. Naturally one or two other people went to join them, and pow, three people killed under a tower, more fun for veigar.
Then later, we at long last killed veigar, killed everyone (except ashe or fiddlesticks?)! We had 4 or 5 alive! We have 50+ minute Caitlyn and Master Yi, time to destroy the nexus tower(s) since we're 4v1...oh wait, wandering over to destroy that other inhibitor? Oh wait, getting one or two people picked off instead of tanking the nexus tower with rammus? Oh wait, 4 enemies alive again?
Oh wait, 3-4 of the team dead again and another 60 seconds to wait?
In the end the nexus went down. Not because we killed it, of course, but because the minions did it.
I normally take everything I do bad and teams do bad in stride, but that game just took the cake. I will try not to ever bitch that badly again.
It was 66 minutes against 4 people. Amumu was presumably the highest ELO and never joined the entire match. Then it was 5-10 minutes against 3 people. Veigar was 8/0 and died for the first time when he disconnected and we jumped on him midlane during the disconnect. He stayed out for a few minutes and finally came back. We lost 4 people at once in their base then, I think.
I was a terrible Caitlyn, dying twice but not doing much (1466 crits on minions, but didn't seem to do much versus champions?), but I almost think if we had been aced they would have won. Our team was constantly split up, begging in chat hardly did anything, and just when you thought you had the group together, one would go off to the jungle, or recall, or get dragon 60 minutes into the game, or go baron again (only to lose 4 people and wait another minute to respawn).
At one point we had 4 people mid, ready to take a tower or the nexus (no inhibitor mid?) or kill veigar, and kennen stayed top lane to kill a tower after like 20 pings for him to join the group. Naturally one or two other people went to join them, and pow, three people killed under a tower, more fun for veigar.
Then later, we at long last killed veigar, killed everyone (except ashe or fiddlesticks?)! We had 4 or 5 alive! We have 50+ minute Caitlyn and Master Yi, time to destroy the nexus tower(s) since we're 4v1...oh wait, wandering over to destroy that other inhibitor? Oh wait, getting one or two people picked off instead of tanking the nexus tower with rammus? Oh wait, 4 enemies alive again?
Oh wait, 3-4 of the team dead again and another 60 seconds to wait?
In the end the nexus went down. Not because we killed it, of course, but because the minions did it.
I normally take everything I do bad and teams do bad in stride, but that game just took the cake. I will try not to ever bitch that badly again.
Morgana. Not sure why you would counter him, because he's no threat in the laning phase, but Morgana poops on him. Old Sivir also dominated Zilean in lane - not sure about the reworked Sivir. Have still to try her out.
I believe that is because she is more of a caster AD, rather than the typical AD.
I've seen Zilean own lanes, and I've been owned by him when I have no way to heal off bomb damage. We had someone say they were going Zilean mid once. I seem to recall they promptly got first blood and owned mid lane. I don't remember how the rest of the game went though.
Spell Vamp.
If you let Zilean double bomb you, then he's out of options. He can't follow up with another nuke or damaging spell (except ignite). He can harass with the double bombs, but if you stay behind the creeps and farm, then he shouldn't be a problem. It's his utility later on that defines him and makes him unique.
He can dodge her Qs pretty easily. Not too hard to farm as Graves vs. a Caitlyn in my experience. Kog works better if you want to push Graves out because Kog can still hold his ground if Graves closes in.
So I was stuck in Utility masteries, deleted everything and now I'm stuck with no masteries. Great.
Don't ever go full AD runes on any Ranged AD champion. Not only are ArPen marks better value than AD marks, ArPen holds its value better throughout the game.
AD isn't better on Tristana. Case closed.
I never said Kennen beats every champion. Kennen doesn't have to go beat Karthus or Xerath. I just said Kennen doesn't get beaten. Whereas people like karthus and xerath get eaten by kassadin, fizz and LB. Keenan farms too safely with Q. I suggest you go check Kennen Q range and Xerath Q range. Don't take into account Xerath's W because if anybody gets hit by that, they deserved it.
How does Morgana counter Zilean? At best, it's a farm fest. Morgana puddle vs zilean bomb. At worst, Zilean uses his speed up to dodge bindings and punishes morgana with double bomb.
No offense, but you are seriously clueless. Fizz can't hold mid, like, at all. You don't lane him versus ranged. Neither Kassadin or Leblanc counter Xerath or Karthus because of their ability to safely farm/harass from a distance.
Don't take Xerath's W into account? Just...no. He can hit you with it when you can't even see him, and it is very easy to hit his Q or E with it. Kennen can be beaten mid. It happens in my games, and I see it happening at a tournament level of play.
Black shield + sustain.
Holy shit lol.
Xerath has large seige times on both his W and his Q. Give's Fizz plenty of time to Q or E in and fuck his shit up. You dont take Xerath's W into account because of its large animation time.
You see it happening in your games, w/e? that means nothing. I can beat Udyr as GP top lane in my games. Sure as hell Udyr owns GP. You see it at tournament level play? lol, EG v TSM, Salce OUTFARMED Reginalds Karthus as Kennen.
Please, don't resort to personal attacks. It's makes you look pretty dumb, esp. when you say stupid stuff afterwards.
If you max black shield, go ahead. Then it's just a farm lane, Zilean didn't get beaten. This whole discussion was aimed at Blizzard's concern about getting counter picked. You don't beat somebody by making it a farm lane. Morgana can't get counter picked either.
Black Shield has a 0.7 AP ratio - no reason to max it first. I was just referring to the last sentence of yours:
Black Shield makes double bomb irrelevant.
If Morgana lands about half her bindings + soil, that will tear through Zilean. And unlike Morgana, Zilean has 0 sustain. Even is she doesn't kill him, Morgana will easily be able to zone Zilean. Countering isn't necessarily about killing the other champion, but making the other champion less useful through means such as denying cs, right?
How does black shield make double bomb irrelevant? he can still apply them on her. Bomb has a higher AP ratio than shield, and it has large base damage. Anyway, I'm not saying Zilean beats moragana,
I just meant that zilean can punish morgana easier because she can miss. Zilean v Morgana is just a farm lane. Neither of them counter the other. Morgana should hardly land bindings against any competant zilean. He pushes as well as her, and can speed himself up. Morgana is too bulky to bother to harass. bla bla
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