He wasn't overloaded but he still was a big problem, that's the point.
Braum just pushed out pretty much everyone else due to his insane damage on q and passive.
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League of Legends |OT12| No more Lyte, just darkness.
- Thread starter zkylon
- Start date
Braum just pushed out pretty much everyone else due to his insane damage on q and passive.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
are you sure you're not confusion mr. mustachio with thresh
SO YOU'RE SAYING BRAUM HARD COUNTERS HER
P2W BUY BRAUM BEAT CAMILLE TO REDDIT
I'd last a long time. I'd just play other shit in queue. I literally have 0 fun playing anything but mid. Hell I played Halo 3 in 2013 when like 0 people were playing it and had to wait like 30 mins for a game. 1 hour isn't too much worse.
Stone Ocean
Member
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Man I do not remember that. I don't know what that says about Braum.
Stone Ocean
Member
That's because you don't play bot lane. I vividly remember touching a pixel of the edge of his ult's hitbox once near my tower and then getting instantly murdered anyways because of a fucking 1.5s long 60% slow.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Hey man, I've played bot characters before.
I remember when Thresh came out, I would play him Top. It was glorious.
Orochinagis
Member
Braum was practically a wall defending the adc of anything except a full raid group on bot on his release
BreezyLimbo
Banned
I remember Braum
from the mountain
fake edit: why can't music creators make cool techno songs exclusively using voice samples from League, there's like over a thousand of them, my favorite song of this style
faker edit: I lied this one is my favorite
like i've said before, i think she was a better design before the buffs, i think everyone should've been nerfed to her level instead of her being buffed to match theirs. i understand why they did it, but cdr creep was a big thing in s6 and i really wish they combatted it
also while i agree that ori is probably the closest a champion's gotten to perfect, she was also nightmare on release
thresh is also a fantastic champion today but he made me rage so hard back in the day
nasus slow was a pretty big problem in s3 iirc, braum was really op on release, malphite/amumu had pick or ban days, and i can't remember anything off the top of my head about wukong but srsly fuck wukong lol
pre rework xerath wasn't nearly as good as velkoz was before the mage update. velkoz's numbers make absolutely fuck all sense lol
i agree with what you're saying here, just don't be a dick about it
hate the work, not the people
an hour is silly hyperbole but i wouldn't mind waiting 5 more minutes if i would get my role 100%, or at least if i had to autofill less
i can understand this can snowball if there are premades but in solo q this shouldn't be as big of an issue
right now i have like 1m queue times, if the matchmaking system only tries finding a role for me for one minute and gives me top i'm def gonna be upset, specially since it worked so well like a month ago
if i'm being completely honest it feels like we're all suffering because riot doesn't want to do different systems for high and low elo, and they're using this support stuff as an excuse. i only say this cos the support issue seems to have shown up out of nowhere, it was never mentioned as a big deal last year, and between super short queue times and generally bad matchmaking (bronze vs faker), i'm hard pressed to think there's much else going on here than just bad matchmaking, and that's not lack of support players' fault
edit: also i think it's a super shitty player experience to get your primary, have someone dodge and then being placed on your 3rd/4th role. fixing that kind of really shitty stuff would help a lot
Laughing at people getting mad about auto fill. It was not that long ago where draft phase had no assigned roles and you played everything. Biggest issue I have with the system is that I will never get a mix of Jungle/Support, because if I put support in as a secondary I just get it 100% of the time.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
They should just remove the whole role selection process. I'll be honest, it's pretty toxic.
"But breezy you're insane it's not toxic blah blah blah"
Look at it this way.
1. Role selection sets an expectation of your game before you're even in it. "I'm going to get one of these roles."
2. Because of that baked in expectation, when you get a role you're not used to or that you didn't select, then you're going to immediately be tilted.
3. As such, while Autofill helps queue times, inversely it also stews toxicity by tilting players who weren't expecting to support or to top lane or to get a role they didn't want.
It's contentious. But if Role selection is removed, it removes that expectation, and thus if you end up being last pick, atleast you can try to communicate about wanting a different role.
It's like if you tell a kid that he's going to go to either Disneyland or Universal Studios, and you keep telling him 'Hey kid, you ready to go to Disneyland or Universal studios?' and that kid is hyped the fuck up. And then you take them to chuck e' Cheese and tell them to eat their fucking pizza you little shit, you didn't really think you'd have fun, did you?
"But breezy you're insane it's not toxic blah blah blah"
Look at it this way.
1. Role selection sets an expectation of your game before you're even in it. "I'm going to get one of these roles."
2. Because of that baked in expectation, when you get a role you're not used to or that you didn't select, then you're going to immediately be tilted.
3. As such, while Autofill helps queue times, inversely it also stews toxicity by tilting players who weren't expecting to support or to top lane or to get a role they didn't want.
It's contentious. But if Role selection is removed, it removes that expectation, and thus if you end up being last pick, atleast you can try to communicate about wanting a different role.
It's like if you tell a kid that he's going to go to either Disneyland or Universal Studios, and you keep telling him 'Hey kid, you ready to go to Disneyland or Universal studios?' and that kid is hyped the fuck up. And then you take them to chuck e' Cheese and tell them to eat their fucking pizza you little shit, you didn't really think you'd have fun, did you?
nope, two seasons ago i didn't play ranked because champ select was a shitshow, just did placements to get the gold skin and that was about it
i played more ranked in s6 than i did in all other seasons combined because it made getting mid easy (after the fixed the really bad matchmaking early on)
now we're losing that for no real benefit
Wolf Akela
Member
Nasus was a brief problem in S3 when he had the following:
- W equal slow on ASPD and MS, and had longer range
- R gives extra range on all abilities
- Slightly higher base Lifesteal (14%?)
- Q crits (bug)
He was also a very competent jungle this time. He deleted camps by maxing E and can solo dragon at Lv6.
I can't remember but was this also the season that had loads of "take X less damage" mastery? I'm sure he also got his Q cost halved and "double stacks on large kills" added here.
- W equal slow on ASPD and MS, and had longer range
- R gives extra range on all abilities
- Slightly higher base Lifesteal (14%?)
- Q crits (bug)
He was also a very competent jungle this time. He deleted camps by maxing E and can solo dragon at Lv6.
I can't remember but was this also the season that had loads of "take X less damage" mastery? I'm sure he also got his Q cost halved and "double stacks on large kills" added here.
PhillipCostigan
Member
in reality it's more like taking your kid to Disneyland or Universal every weekend, but this week daddy lost his job and the alimony isn't gonna pay itself, so you tell the kid that this week you might have to go to Chuck E. Cheese so that daddy can afford the rent, but if you go to Chuck E. Cheese then you're guaranteed to go to either Disneyland or Universal the week after. It's a trade off once in a while.
Stone Ocean
Member
Typing "mid pref" in S4/S5 got me mid lane more often than queueing up for mid this season. Old system was not much different besides instant Q times.
When Riot said they'd do role selection I expected team builder draft, not this.
When Riot said they'd do role selection I expected team builder draft, not this.
PhillipCostigan
Member
There is a difference, it should be weighted more towards your primary. However your primary is also the most popular position in the game, and I don't know what you put as secondary.
There's also the realist within me that wants to stay stop being a fucking waste of space if you get another role and learn some champs so you're not a liability to your team, but I can't expect everyone to be a decent player
I can't learn stuff if I don't have fun doing it. Turns out I only find mid fun.
Just like in real life. For example, subjects at school I enjoyed like Maths, IT, Psychology, I did really well in, where as subjects I hated like Science, Art and RE I did garbage in. If I don't enjoy what I'm doing I can't do it well.
Also currently got support again. Now at 2/10. Primary LUL
First time supporting in ranked in over a year. Team should love me and also have fun for this.
Peanut Butter
Member
I still don't get why Team Builder was gutted. Ranked TB could have been so simple-
A.)
-Create a lobby on your own or w/ friends with one role selected
-Wait for people to fill the other roles in real time
-search for a team once full
-pick/ban
-loading screen
or
B.)
-Pick a role, search for a team
-Ready up and the team leader starts the search
-pick/ban
-loading screen
A.)
-Create a lobby on your own or w/ friends with one role selected
-Wait for people to fill the other roles in real time
-search for a team once full
-pick/ban
-loading screen
or
B.)
-Pick a role, search for a team
-Ready up and the team leader starts the search
-pick/ban
-loading screen
This is a big issue for me as I'm getting started, since I'm still a moderately crappy player at support, but my performance at other roles is just awful. Having to pick a secondary role is enough to screw me over, and auto-filling would make things even worse.
Still, I guess I should be getting support most of the time, but the rare times I get anything else I feel like my team is going to pay dearly for it. I just am not skilled enough to "git gud" at more roles when I realize I still have a long way to go as a support, so asking that of me is more like telling me to just go back to blind pick queue and stay there until the end of times.
PhillipCostigan
Member
I mean, it's less about git gud and more about having a contingency plan. And you can be smart about those things. Nobody is going to expect you to be a great top laner if you're a support main, but you could look into picking up champs that can work in both. Nautilus for example or maybe Karma? Something that's pretty simple to play that you can use in both roles so if there is a point where you don't get support you can at least function.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Team builder was a mess and a hassle
never bring team builder back
never bring team builder back
Except that when I do get sent top I'm constantly struggling with enemy champions I barely know and strategies that differ a lot from "keep ADC safe and try to enable kills" during the laning phase. My Nautilus might do okay and end up 0/0/0 after laning, with maybe one or two kills or assists if I get help from the jungler, but I otherwise suck at assessing when to farm and when to bully people when I'm by myself (mostly due to the aforementioned lack of knowledge regarding top lane champions and itemization).
PhillipCostigan
Member
btw, want to point out that I do feel the frustrations when it comes to auto-fill. Nobody likes playing a role they don't want to, however I think it's important to recognise the necessity of it right now. The big issue to me that needs to be solved is making support a more enjoyable role so that there's less of a dearth of support players.
Right now autofill is necessary for healthy matchmaking because fucking nobody plays support. I'll suggest autofill protection also giving you a guaranteed primary role if you have autofilled for a game or two, would be interested to see the results of that.
The issue with a "I will take a longer queue time if you guarantee my primary role" is that the same thing would likely happen as the position exclusion in LAN and LAS servers when it was on trial. Just as people there realised the best way to gain the system was to exclude support always, people would just choose the guaranteed role option and we'd have a terrible matchmaking environment. I do think there's potentially more of a compromise though.
Right now autofill is necessary for healthy matchmaking because fucking nobody plays support. I'll suggest autofill protection also giving you a guaranteed primary role if you have autofilled for a game or two, would be interested to see the results of that.
The issue with a "I will take a longer queue time if you guarantee my primary role" is that the same thing would likely happen as the position exclusion in LAN and LAS servers when it was on trial. Just as people there realised the best way to gain the system was to exclude support always, people would just choose the guaranteed role option and we'd have a terrible matchmaking environment. I do think there's potentially more of a compromise though.
I actually don't have a problem with autofill in normal. I do have a problem in autofill for ranked. I don't have crazy amount of time and there are only a certain amount of roles and champs I'm good with. If I'm going to have a role that won't help me climb, or other people in the same situation, then it frustrates me when laddering. Either let me wait 15min for queue or just don't let it penalize me as much if i get a role that i don't specialize in (ie less rank point loss). This is in effect the MMO syndrome. No one fucking plays tanks or healers. Everyone plays fucking DPS. Queue time for DPS suck.
The biggest issue when playing support solo is that lack of coordination with your ADC is often all it takes to lose the lane, and then the rest of the team is likely to gang up on either of you, leading to a downwards spiral of negativity that results in the team just not cooperating and giving up as people just start flaming each other for whatever. I've had lots of stories where my teammates would whine at me not warding when under heavy pressure (ie: my lovely Ashe adc constantly walking into range of free Braum Qs and getting their adc fed), all while the rest of my team had a grand total of zero wards deployed around the map.
As a support, I often feel I'm too dependent on getting an adc that "gets" me and allows us to work as a team rather than doing subpar individual plays, and games where that doesn't happen often just turn into slogfests where we either get bailed out by a snowballing teammate in another lane or die.
lmao what are these metaphores (breezy's included)
to be fair riot did spend a year telling us just playing two roles is ok, while giving us the ability to guarantee roles in 3+ premades
me and friend would go mid/support and support/mid along with another friend that could play two roles and we never had to play anything else
i don't think that makes me a fucking waste of space, specially since matchmaking made me unable to play my actual secondary role cos picking mid/support was just asking for disappointment
i also don't think i'm a fucking waste of space if after a year of playing with the new ruleset i'm forced to play toplane against a d5 top main when i'm probably bronze at this shit. i went like 1 5 0 in lane and i was playing fucking sion lol
wouldn't you agree these conditions (ie. not real ranked, big matchmaking bugs, preseason) are probably not gonna yield the most accurate data?
PhillipCostigan
Member
what are you queueing btw?
Mid/ADC
Tried Mid/Jung at the start of the season. Realised I suck at jung, so then I basically just played Lucian whenever I got adc. Now Lucian is pretty meh, I suck at ADC again lul.
PhillipCostigan
Member
I passed on the feedback, the team is aware.
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Which is why I'm in the camp that they should remove role selection.
choosing your role sets an unhealthy expectation-"I'm going to be mid or top." When you don't get it, you're going to be tilted.
Once they introduce draft/staggered pick mode,I'd like them to remove selecting roles. telling players they should expect a role and then taking that away from them is messed up. Enabling autofill is only a bandage that pisses off people, and rightfully so.
Like...if you're going to do that, if you're going to enable autofill permanently, might as well go back to not selecting roles and picking in the lobby what role you play. Atleast that way you don't have people complaining or being tilted because they couldn't be the magical unicorn in mid.
This is a good point.
PhillipCostigan
Member
yeah about primary vs secondary weighting and the idea of guaranteeing a primary role after autofilling
actually can't remember if you suggested the last part but there were things you were annoyed about and had a crappy experience with and I let people know
I am at least somewhat capable at cutting through the hyperbole to find the sentiment behind something
SenorArdilla
Member
Ahri's Spirit Rush should be on a charge system.
while that would probably be pretty fun, i think it's very healthy for the game to have been moments of strength be gated somehow, either cooldowns or very specific requirements or whatever
like if you could use ahri ult on demand she might need to be nerfed somewhere else or maybe her ult should be less impactful or whatever, because now she's even safer than ever with an always available escape, and also she's really dangerous cos you never know when she can dash into charm and catch somebody out
so maybe now it doesn't deal any dmg, or maybe it's slower, or maybe you can only have two charges, or whatever
point is, now you have more moments of low impact instead of fewer moments of big impact, and i think the latter is much more satisfying to play, as well as more manageable to play against and easier to balance for riot
while i agree with you that adc sucks and support it's awesome, you can't pick support secondary as a midlaner cos you'll never get mid
BreezyLimbo
Banned
put a slight cooldown between use of her ult
bam balanced. She can't just spam R 3 times to get away anymore, but she can tactically make use of it now.
bam balanced. She can't just spam R 3 times to get away anymore, but she can tactically make use of it now.
It's truly a role for the masochist. Top tier junglers rn can kill an adc before their cotc shield is broken
You're there to farm enough to be able to take objectives between getting gibbed by a tank
I'm going to push into semantics here, but a broken champion isn't an overpowered champion. Braum was overpowered on release, big difference. His strengths and weaknesses are identifiable and so balancing him is fairly straight forward.
I wonder if I should drop any pretense of making a rounded jungle pool and just play bruisers there. Even when I play tanks I still play them more as bruisers.