Support NeoGAF

[Imperfected]

Push compo still works

. /
Fgkjcf ifhig

Yeah, at least when the other team is repeatedly doing the sloppiest full-team tower dives and one-by-one "I think I can!" engages you could ask for. Why you so free, Blaze?

 

[Zynx]

If I wasn't an SKT fan, that wouldn't have been a very interesting game.

I don't think the utility AP scaling for supports is the best idea. It means now supports are a completely different (unidimensional) kind of champion and you can't do non-meta stuff like mage Lulu (slays) or Nami in ARAM, you have to be support and that's it.

I agree, I really like champions that actually perform multiple roles well enough and not ones pigeonholed into one type of play. But it seems Riot, like Blizzard, often has a single "what should happen optimally" blueprint that they want players to follow.

 

[Boken]

the new balance is pretty interesting

zed declared ded, still picked in compo
riven picked as a safepick mid
olaf and lucian top tier picks
annie bans or picks
nidalee 100% ban too OP
shen is ded
jax just disappeared without any nerfs

i like this patch (3.13)

too bad preseason balance is gonna just screwe everything up

add to this syndra pick or ban status

dis is cray cray

 

[Pandaman]

is this supposed to be funny still? lulu is garbage as a support right now. easily one of the worst in the game. now the role is opening up more and the influx of gold will probably mean annie in every game. scaling utility will honestly just make it harder for supports to keep pace with traditional champions. 35 additional movespeed really doesn't make up for a blasting wand's worth of ap.

wait what.

did supports lose damage scaling in exchange for utility scaling?

because i was under the impression it would be .5 of a blasting wand + 35 movespeed vs .75 of a blasting wand.

 

[Stone Ocean]

They'll still have the damage scaling.

 

[Boken]

wait what.

did supports lose damage scaling in exchange for utility scaling?

because i was under the impression it would be .5 of a blasting wand + 35 movespeed vs .75 of a blasting wand.

he means how lulu used to give free 60ap

lulu Q got -0.1 AP ratio but got reduced slow falloff with AP


and i dont exepct annie everygame, bulky supports are coming back. face of the mountain sounds so good.

I agree, I really like champions that actually perform multiple roles well enough and not ones pigeonholed into one type of play. But it seems Riot, like Blizzard, often has a single "what should happen optimally" blueprint that they want players to follow.

this mentality is wrong -

they're essentially making the supports "utility mages". they can still support - thats just the position that requires you to sacrifice for the team carry. they've reduced AP ratios by a small amount, but thats the cost of supports having a better early game than other mages. just because you have utility ratios, doesnt mean that building AP doesnt mean you dont deal damage :/

just because youre buffing youre team doesnt mean youre a support :/. and going mage doesnt mean doing damage. orianna is considered a utility mage for example - though now that supports can scale, orianna is closer to utility on the utility <-> mage spectrum

"Nami:
W - Ebb and Flow

Heal/Damage drop off changed from from 15% to 0% at 200 AP and can go over 0, leading to increased effects off every bounce"

sounds fun

 

[Zynx]

Ah, so they split the games.

Wonder if Marin will regret that earlier engage he did 1vX.

 

[PhillipCostigan]

The champions, man, not the players. Rumble, Nunu, Ryze? Get outta here with that junk. Blaze better not lose to this scrub-ass comp.

ain't nothing wrong with Rumble

 

[Edwardo]

EU Spring Promo Qualifier is starting in 50 mins.

http://www.twitch.tv/wellplayed

 

[Boken]

EU Spring Promo Qualifier is starting in 50 mins.

http://www.twitch.tv/wellplayed

but KT bullets

Anyway - this is the pool for EU promo qualifiers:

i dunno ne1

 

[Edwardo]

but KT bullets

How far in are they? I'm just settling into work. Should I watch or wait for the rebroadcast?

 

[Boken]

How far in are they? I'm just settling into work. Should I watch or wait for the rebroadcast?

just about to start

 

[Edwardo]

just about to start

oh baby yes

 

[Heavy's Sandvich]

Will watch this as I get on with some work.

Now I'm a champion-in-waiting, will be useful to scout out the competition.

 

[Leezard]

Lucian such a high priority pick. Non-Korea appears to be a bit behind.

edit: also Olaf. This will be nice to watch.

 

[Achtius]

Well... a spider fell onto my lap as I was running through the weavers nest in path of exile.

I had to stop playing. Fuckin spiders man...

You have to specify Australian spiders. It makes it that much scarier.

 

[PhillipCostigan]

RANGO IN OGN YES.

Lucian such a high priority pick. Non-Korea appears to be a bit behind.

edit: also Olaf. This will be nice to watch.

He's really popular in the NACL, I expect him to be big in the upcoming promotion tourney too.

Also people picking Ziggs in NACL, which makes me happy.

 

[Crab Milk Mickey]

Thank you all for you advices.

I realized that just having one role or champ wasn't gonna cut it out in ranked so I recently started to try and learn other champs (Fiddle Jungle - Heimer mid - and Teemo mid/top) I'm also reading websites such as mobafire to get build advices and comments. But I sure have a lot of things to learn.

Talking about streams I watched a little OGN last night and was very surprised to see that the supports almost didn't build items but where buying a hella lot of wards and pink wards. Gotta take some inspiration from that.

Honestly, there's plenty of instances of players reaching Diamond in Ranked by maining the hell out of one role or even one champion so it's not as unrealistic as one would expect. However, the main takeaway here is that either a) the players in question are either very experienced in their role or b) they really, really enjoy their champion of choice. They won't always get x champion or role so by default they have something to fall back on, but their competence usually borders around 'acceptable for their elo range' rather than being exceptional at it (as naturally it's not their main).

And vision isn't as valuable where you're at right now. Once the players you meet get better, improving your ward coverage is definitely a skill you want to hone (until pre-season 4 changes everyone's pre-conceptions about it) in the long run.

I always seem to be the instigator in battles so I've been leaning towards tank champs. I've started with Garen and have been doing above average with him. I also like playing mages (so would that be AP builds?) like Ryze, Lissandra, and technically Teemo.

I tried Ashe for a while but I never did well with her. I want to try other ranged champs like Varus and see if it's just Ashe or I really don't play well with range types. Would they be considered ADC?

If you like beefy brawlers or tanky engagers: Renekton, Jarvan IV, Zac, Sejuani, Hecarim, Malphite, Shyvanna, Trundle, Maokai, Nautilus, Lee Sin, Nasus (affectionately nicknamed Susan), Jax, Olaf, Udyr, Darius. Some are better suited for the jungle rather than the lane and some aren't as strong, but focus on finding someone you think is fun as you're still learning the ropes.

And what exactly do you like about said mages / AP carries? Their sustained DPS? If so: Cassiopea and Brand fit that description, and Orianna if you want a bit more overall utility with a ranged initiation / follow-up ultimate.

you're all overreacting, supports will still suck late game

they just get to build some utility items now

PBE skill ceiling is low and all, but I've seen some 'farmed' supports single-handedly beat up ADC's or AP's who were behind (even if only slightly) without going raw damage.

Is Darius still viable top?

Right now he's still a good pick against Riven and Renekton (two examples off the top of my head) due to the sheer damage he has. However, he's very susceptible to ganks and inadvertedly pushing his lane if you use your Q poorly, so you kinda need to know what you're doing or ward well / have your jungler be on the look-out for you if you want to perform well against more astute players.

He also has issues late game in teamfights if the enemy has kiting potential, even though he'll still end up having scary damage most of the time if built correctly.

is this supposed to be funny still? lulu is garbage as a support right now. easily one of the worst in the game. now the role is opening up more and the influx of gold will probably mean annie in every game. scaling utility will honestly just make it harder for supports to keep pace with traditional champions. 35 additional movespeed really doesn't make up for a blasting wand's worth of ap.

it is incredibly disheartening to see the season four changes being pushed out like this. there are some genuinely good ideas in there that are well intentioned, but the execution on them is not comprehensive enough. champions that are already weak or average will face severe penalization while champions that are already strong will become completely dominant and ever-present.

I know we don't agree very often, but Lulu garbage as a support? That's some hyperbole.

I'll miss the AP boost on her W and I'm also unsure whether the movement speed increase will be apparent enough (considering mobility is already easy to come by), but first impressions were good on PBE even if the average player there is far below what I'm used to. Despite all that, I wouldn't put LIVE Lulu below LIVE Taric, Soraka or Alistar (still decent but far more shortcomings than what's currently 'in') nor would I personally pass up on Lulu in favor of Blitzcrank if other hotly contested picks are not available / lack synergy. All four clearly have a different niche than what Lulu is set out to do, but with the latter that's primarily my bias speaking since I am not a fan of his polarizing results thanks to his kit and other player-related reasons that I won't get into right now.

I share similar as well different concerns with regards to the pre-season after 1,5 weeks of play time, but the state of Lulu is not one of them. Not even close.

I'm leaning towards dimb's assessment being right. After some thought I'm not a fan of the changes they've made to traditional supports either. I think I'd rather have the vision changes so supports aren't ward bitches and *a bit* of extra gold and lots of support items to choose from. It's funny that Riot is all hell bent on providing me with my "support fantasy" but my support fantasy isn't buying a deathcap and dealing more damage It's supporting my team and the support changes so far are the opposite of that.

On PBE most supports still end up buying utility-oriented items, just not strictly defensive anymore. There's admittedly still some holes left to fill when it comes to variety in item availability (for multiple roles) but you won't be seeing them rush Deathcap once the experimental phase ends. Unless it turns out a second AP carry is consistently tactically superior, but I have my doubts this'll become the norm.

 

[Stone Ocean]

Lucian such a high priority pick. Non-Korea appears to be a bit behind.

edit: also Olaf. This will be nice to watch.

It's more the comp they're going for - Sona Nidalee Lucian - than exactly Lucian, I think.

 

[Leezard]

It's more the comp they're going for - Sona Nidalee Lucian - than exactly Lucian, I think.

That's highly possible, but they did pick Lucian with neither Nidalee nor Sona this time. Nidalee was banned and Sona was picked by the other team after Lucian. We'll see if it works out despite that.

 

[Boken]

PBE skill ceiling is low and all, but I've seen some 'farmed' supports single-handedly beat up ADC's or AP's who were behind (even if only slightly) without going raw damage.

i was talking about in the context of a real game - where supports will still be the 5th position in gold.

but its funny you say that, because people are just complaing about how scaling utility makes supports 100% supports, or people who say "annie 100% of the time"

/shrug.
we just gotta wait until the patch comes out wholesale so you can see the complete effect of it all.

============

screw theorycrafting, KTB.

 

[Crab Milk Mickey]

i was talking about in the context of a real game - where supports will still be the 5th position in gold.

but its funny you say that, because people are just complaing about how scaling utility makes supports 100% supports, or people who say "annie 100% of the time"

/shrug.
we just gotta wait until the patch comes out wholesale so you can see the complete effect of it all.

Riot actually did a good job evening out the gold discrepancies between laners and junglers + supports. Even when neither of the latter two roles is concerned with lane creeps as soon as an opening presents itself. In hindsight paraphrasing it as 'farmed' was misleading, as I merely meant that they have gained a steady enough income through other means to complete 4 - 6 items within and after 30 minutes. Usually the matches didn't have an absurdly high kill count either.

That said, a mid Taric clobbering the stuffing out of a typical yet confused AP mid will be a sight to behold.

 

[Boken]

Riot actually did a good job evening out the gold discrepancies between laners and junglers + supports. Even when neither of the latter two roles is concerned with lane creeps as soon as an opening presents itself. In hindsight paraphrasing it as 'farmed' was misleading, as I merely meant that they have gained a steady enough income through other means to complete 4 - 6 items within and after 30 minutes. Usually the matches didn't have an absurdly high kill count either.

That said, a mid Taric clobbering the stuffing out of a typical yet confused AP mid will be a sight to behold.

s4 will be tank support heaven

this game is why lucian Q is getting nerfed

 

[Edwardo]

The dragon that tanked the world

 

[Boken]

onyxia skin for shyvanna pls

for everybody whining,

This is how i expect preseason to go:
- support/jungle/vision changes testing/balance
- new s4 items testing/balance
- map VU test (riot pls)

 

[Stone Ocean]

The Dulling

 

[Edwardo]

onyxia skin for shyvanna pls

Bolvar Fordragon Garen skin pls

I changed my mind. Herod Garen skin!

Blades of Light!

 

[Stone Ocean]

You can't milk those

 

[PhillipCostigan]

onyxia skin for shyvanna pls

for everybody whining,

This is how i expect preseason to go:
- support/jungle/vision changes testing/balance
- new s4 items testing/balance
- map VU test (riot pls)

there's not gonna be a map VU for a good while, pretty sure they've already said that.

 

[Boken]

That gank on Riven in the middle

Holy shit

Someone has to YouTube that

there's not gonna be a map VU for a good while, pretty sure they've already said that.

Destroyer of dreams

 

[Stone Ocean]

Tickle Me Lucian

They need to add execute damage on that thing or something.

 

[PhillipCostigan]

MonteCristo wetting himself over this game is weird to me, mainly because it's a game of which team is more awful than the other.

It's a game of bad decision making, whiffed ults, throws, bad positioning, indecision and just bad play.

And yet they keep throwing out the word "skilful".

idk

 

[Edwardo]

I want to do more mystery gifting, wtf..

I ended up getting:

Midnight Ahri
Little Knight Amumu
Amethyst Ashe
Safari Caitlyn
Sheriff Caitlyn
Dragonwing Corki
Woad King Darius
Fisherman Fizz
Dreadknight Garen
Sanguine Garen
Oktoberfest Gragas
Pool Party Leona
Charred Maokai
Totemic Maokai
Shamrock Malphite
Grungy Nunu
Sasquatch Nunu
Bladecraft Orianna
Royal Shaco
Surgeon Shen
Yellow Jacket Shen
Boneclaw Shyvana
Rocket Girl Tristana
Lil Slugger Trundle
King Tryndamere
Tango Twisted Fate
Black Belt Udyr
Heartseeker Vayne
Blood Lord Vladimir
Samurai Yi
Mad Scientist Ziggs

Wow.. after typing these out I realize how many I actually did.....

 

[Boken]

Tickle Me Lucian

They need to add execute damage on that thing or something.

It was doing pretty big damages late game against unarmoured targets

MonteCristo wetting himself over this game is weird to me, mainly because it's a game of which team is more awful than the other.

It's a game of bad decision making, whiffed ults, throws, bad positioning, indecision and just bad play.

And yet they keep throwing out the word "skilful".

idk

Dimb is leaking

 

[SteveWinwood]

boken do you leak

 

[PhillipCostigan]

It was doing pretty big damages late game against unarmoured targets

Dimb is leaking

usually I'll be the first to disagree with soda cop over stuff like this, but that was nowhere near up to the standard of Korean games I've been watching over the last few OGN seasons.

It was really bad. Both games of the set were.

 

[Boken]

boken do you leak

Sometimes I leak on you and Archie

usually I'll be the first to disagree with soda cop over stuff like this, but that was nowhere near up to the standard of Korean games I've been watching over the last few OGN seasons.

It was really bad. Both games of the set were.

I'm not saying they were perfect games but that you just sounded too upset for what it was

 

[Stone Ocean]

Yeah, games were sloppy but that wasn't TSM-bad.

Korean players aren't mythical creatures. They have bad matches as well.

 

[SteveWinwood]

wait boken are you still in on that mid tier tourney because we do need you

freakinchair is on our team now

 

[PhillipCostigan]

I'm not expecting them to be. My comment was more on MonteCristo getting horny over bad games and talking about how skilful the games were, which I found really weird.

¯\_(&#12484_/¯

 

[Boken]

wait boken are you still in on that mid tier tourney because we do need you

freakinchair is on our team now

wat
isnt freakinchair the only person you need

 

[Stone Ocean]

I'm not expecting them to be. My comment was more on MonteCristo getting horny over bad games and talking about how skilful the games were, which I found really weird.

¯\_(&#12484_/¯

I'd be more upset if he was being a downer about it lol.

 

[Boken]

I want to do more mystery gifting, wtf..

I ended up getting:

Midnight Ahri
Little Knight Amumu
Amethyst Ashe
Safari Caitlyn
Sheriff Caitlyn
Dragonwing Corki
Woad King Darius
Fisherman Fizz
Dreadknight Garen
Sanguine Garen
Oktoberfest Gragas
Pool Party Leona
Charred Maokai
Totemic Maokai
Shamrock Malphite
Grungy Nunu
Sasquatch Nunu
Bladecraft Orianna
Royal Shaco
Surgeon Shen
Yellow Jacket Shen
Boneclaw Shyvana
Rocket Girl Tristana
Lil Slugger Trundle
King Tryndamere
Tango Twisted Fate
Black Belt Udyr
Heartseeker Vayne
Blood Lord Vladimir
Samurai Yi
Mad Scientist Ziggs

Wow.. after typing these out I realize how many I actually did.....

self gifting on PBE

ur already ded

 

[Archie]

self gifting on PBE

ur already ded

Wow it's like chests and keys all over again.

How can Riot copy such slimy business practices?

 

[Boken]

Wow it's like chests and keys all over again.

How can Riot copy such slimy business practices?

i dunno
its kinda sick

at least youre guaranteed to get something worth more than you pay for tho
and its only gonna be active for a few days (tm) whatever that means

 

[PhillipCostigan]

Wow it's like chests and keys all over again.

How can Riot copy such slimy business practices?

it will only live for about 4 days, for the people who didn't have friends to trade mystery gifts with.

 

[Boken]

damn, poor guys

 

[Edwardo]

self gifting on PBE

ur already ded

It's going to be dota keys all over again... shiiiiiit.......

 

[XenodudeX]

I see a few people play shyvana now. Did she get buffed or something?

 

[SenorArdilla]

damn, poor guys

Man, I wish I had no friends.

Spoiler

Not really.