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League of Legends |OT5| Premade Bot
- Thread starter Dobkeratops
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BriseFlots
Member
what riot could do to make her fun is maybe stop nerfing her in every patch...
I love sona, she can be very facerolly but managing her power chords is fun and landing a good ult is game-changing. she doesn't really scale well with gold because her kit doesn't really lends itself well to it, shitty ratios, low range, low waveclear, only two damaging spells and a lot of damage stuck in her q passive. subtle's crazy world of sona ap mid aside, you put more ap on her and it just doesn't work so well
and she's not much of a playmaker, unless you're deep into teamfight stage, so it's not like you can go bubble/hook people up and win games with her that way. and without wards to clear, there's not much to do with her before lategame.
yea that's what I'm doing
AdventChild
Neo Member
As Jungler, i love the changes. I can full build at min 40 with Jarvan, and thats so facking cool.
It's a fine guide but the amount of flamers you'll face using it is too high for me
Thanks and yeah there's lots of flamers. It's fun tho which makes it worth it imo.
lcs material
edit: for janna i'm rolling with Targons-Ruby Sightstone-Mikaels-Randuin-Twin Shadows. it's a ton of fun.
You enjoy the new jungle changes with a fairly low clear speed jungler?
Don't take the only thing the banana woman has
.I tried that Sona mid guide in blind pick and started off like 4/0 with good jungler ganks.
Unfortunately I and the jungler died at the same time to give the enemy Viktor an instant 932 gold shutdown bonus, but we also had a Nasus and came back from baron and stuff to win in the end.
I am not good enough at last hitting against long-range poke champions. Sona waveclear needs buff please Riot!
Unfortunately I and the jungler died at the same time to give the enemy Viktor an instant 932 gold shutdown bonus, but we also had a Nasus and came back from baron and stuff to win in the end.
I am not good enough at last hitting against long-range poke champions. Sona waveclear needs buff please Riot!
I love the new environment botlane. You just turn on the jungler and be like..."oh you're half health, so what are you doing here again?"
Just rush lich bane and you'll be clearing waves in no time.
AdventChild
Neo Member
My jungle route didnt changed so much (imagine purple side).. smiteless blue > smite red > wraiths (hit level 3) > gank mid > gank top.
Rush Golem or Lizzard (for the early gold income), depends on my top champ and my masteries, but i usually play agressive Jarvan (21-9 with Lizzard if top is full tank, 21-9 with Golem if off tank). 5 bots or mercury/taby if enemy fed and Solari.
From here, all depends on the game.
oh yeah viktor is a toughy
PhillipCostigan
Member
I dislike how slow jungling as a role is right now. It takes so long for you to make an impact. Ganking junglers got kinda fucked. No more hitting level 3 and making plays.
I feel like there was way more game sense and reading of the game involved/required last season. You had to get into the mind of the enemy jungler a lot before and recognise where they're gonna gank or where they could be. Now it's easy: they're farming until like level 6 or whatever.
There's just no incentive early game to do anything other than farm. You're more than likely not going to get any decent ganks off cos laners have so much free vision, so if you try to gank while the enemy jungler is farming you'll end up like a level or two behind when it comes to start contesting dragon.
This is pretty similar to support and one of the reasons I'm not enjoying the support role. The vision game was really interesting to me. It's cool that you get more gold now, but most of the nuance of supporting and outsmarting your opponent is gone. Now most supports are just underfarmed mid laners who will eventually maybe get to the point of being strong as a carry. Supporting as a role doesn't feel like supporting any more.
I think they still have a long way to go. They need to make proper supports worth playing again, cos they aren't. I'm sick of seeing poor man's mid laners with loads of free gold instead of actual supports.
I feel like there was way more game sense and reading of the game involved/required last season. You had to get into the mind of the enemy jungler a lot before and recognise where they're gonna gank or where they could be. Now it's easy: they're farming until like level 6 or whatever.
There's just no incentive early game to do anything other than farm. You're more than likely not going to get any decent ganks off cos laners have so much free vision, so if you try to gank while the enemy jungler is farming you'll end up like a level or two behind when it comes to start contesting dragon.
This is pretty similar to support and one of the reasons I'm not enjoying the support role. The vision game was really interesting to me. It's cool that you get more gold now, but most of the nuance of supporting and outsmarting your opponent is gone. Now most supports are just underfarmed mid laners who will eventually maybe get to the point of being strong as a carry. Supporting as a role doesn't feel like supporting any more.
I think they still have a long way to go. They need to make proper supports worth playing again, cos they aren't. I'm sick of seeing poor man's mid laners with loads of free gold instead of actual supports.
BriseFlots
Member
I don't see how having gold prevents supports from warding/de-warding.
You still to have to outsmart your opponent in laning phase to get your adc fed. Really the role didn't change much except from the fact that junglers and adc can't one-chot supports anymore.
Stone Ocean
Member
The vision game was one of the most cancerous aspects of the game and I'm glad it's gone. Denying vision was way too easy and once you got the vision advantage it was pretty much impossible to lose it.
Light the map like a christmas tres, buy oracles and proceed to force the enemy team to never leave lanes or base.
Light the map like a christmas tres, buy oracles and proceed to force the enemy team to never leave lanes or base.
PhillipCostigan
Member
eh? It doesn't. I feel like you misread what I was saying.
The problem I have with vision now is that by having a 3 ward limit and 1 pink ward you as a support can impact vision on the map much less than before.
To me the fun of support was how I could use my map awareness to carry the game. Outsmarting the enemy with vision control was rewarding to me. Also the support champions are really fun to play and really rewarding. Landing that clutch bubble as Nami or single-handedly winning a fight because you landed a 5 man tidal wave is great.
Sure being a DFG support Annie is cool, but support lost so much ability to carry by simply reading the game and map better than everyone else.
if you gained the vision advantage, it's generally because you outplayed and outsmarted your opponents. It was really rewarding to me.
The problem was that it was really hard to lose vision control once you had it, making comebacks really tough. With the vision changes, it is possible to outplay an opponent that has an advantage, since they won't have vision over the entire map, and by extension cannot deny the losing teams vision completely. The vision was one of the aspects that really amplified the snowballing.
BriseFlots
Member
I see. I did misunderstand you then. It's much less than before but on the other side other roles aren't forbidden to buy wards.
I just feel like teamwork became more important as everybody can and has to commit in vision AND everybody can now have an impact on team-fights. I feel like the game becomes more balanced like this.
But I see how one can prefer very specialized roles.
Maybe they should make Sona's Q like Nid's spear. but in reverse. Increase the range, but the further away the enemy is, the less damage it does. That way she could harass a little bit in lane (and also help generate gold for herself with frostfang), but if you want to play her more aggressive and do more damage with it you have to get up in the enemy's face to use it.
Stone Ocean
Member
I don't really agree with that. It was really binary and oportunistic, your lane got pushed and you can't get to your ward in time before it gets pinked and done. The cost to denying vision to opponents was really low as well, 125~400 gold and voila.
Regardless of if it was because you outplayed and outsmarted or not, it doesn't change the fact that it was stupid as shit and the effort you need to put to actually maintain that advantage is negligible compared to the effort the other team has to put to just get vision back, not even come back as a whole, just the vision game.
PhillipCostigan
Member
that's not necessarily true. that's the enemy playing the lane better than you. They wanted vision control, pushed the lane, got vision control. You can easily push the lane back or freeze it.
That was one of the ways of outsmarting your opponent. Recognizing a weakness in your vision or a need for more vision control,so you play the lane in a way that allows you to do that.
Also the cost of denying vision is much lower now than it was then, with pink wards costing 25 gold less and people having access to vision denying trinkets should they want it. No more oracle's either.
Yes, it was definitely snowbally, which was a problem. I just don't like the current solution as much because I feel like you don't have as much room to outplay your opponent as you used to.
Stone Ocean
Member
Diamond starting elixir on Eve, interesting.
KiwiLannister
Member
Yeah quite frankly if you're playing a ganking jungler, you're doing it wrong. Far better for your team if you play Shyvana, just jungle and countergank for 20 minutes, and then show up in teamfights with a Hydra and a Phage, than playing Jarvan, ganking 10 times in that 20 minutes, getting maybe 5 kills/assists and one tower, and coming into teamfights with an Ancient Golem and boots.
Only last couple of days have I realized how much damage Shyvana can do with Hydra and Triforce. Been a bit greedy last couple games rushing both items before building tanky, but it's just amazing for your team when you flank the enemy, ult through their back line and run around taking half the enemy team from 100-50 before you've even started taking damage. And at my elo (Silver 5) that is far better for your team than a well placed cc that nobody follows up correctly. Had a game a couple of days ago where our team was sooooo meta. I was J4 jungle, Rumble top, Sona/Varus bot and Zed mid. We could've crushed the enemy team if we played it right. But then Sona would initiate with a 1 man crescendo when our team was too far away to follow up, Rumble would blow his ult before I trapped anyone with mine, Zed would be out of position and Varus would get caught out before anything had happened. Seems easier to just deal a ton of damage, requires less teamwork for it to be useful.
Only last couple of days have I realized how much damage Shyvana can do with Hydra and Triforce. Been a bit greedy last couple games rushing both items before building tanky, but it's just amazing for your team when you flank the enemy, ult through their back line and run around taking half the enemy team from 100-50 before you've even started taking damage. And at my elo (Silver 5) that is far better for your team than a well placed cc that nobody follows up correctly. Had a game a couple of days ago where our team was sooooo meta. I was J4 jungle, Rumble top, Sona/Varus bot and Zed mid. We could've crushed the enemy team if we played it right. But then Sona would initiate with a 1 man crescendo when our team was too far away to follow up, Rumble would blow his ult before I trapped anyone with mine, Zed would be out of position and Varus would get caught out before anything had happened. Seems easier to just deal a ton of damage, requires less teamwork for it to be useful.
while I don't like the way things are for supports, you didn't really outsmart the enemy support before, you just warded anything and everything because you had more money. the losing support didn't have much to do and if your team wasn't half bad you'd win.
what I wonder is if the game wouldn't be a bit better if we just had a nerfed oracle's instead of trinkets, like cheaper and that lasted less time. pinks also don't make that much sense being visible if you can only place one, so I'd roll that back too and just make it invisible.
maybe it's just as bad, but trinkets seem like overdoing it and none of them feel any fun at all (shitty ward, shitty ward disabler, shitty clairvoyance)
what I wonder is if the game wouldn't be a bit better if we just had a nerfed oracle's instead of trinkets, like cheaper and that lasted less time. pinks also don't make that much sense being visible if you can only place one, so I'd roll that back too and just make it invisible.
maybe it's just as bad, but trinkets seem like overdoing it and none of them feel any fun at all (shitty ward, shitty ward disabler, shitty clairvoyance)
Stone Ocean
Member
Easy to say after the hotfix lol
New sustain passive on spirit items make you lose little to no health while clearing and conservation actually makes it worth to go and gank in between clears now, plus the Relic Shield nerf. It's looking a loooooot better now.
/dance is kinda funky but ahri skin is great anyways. no regrets
it's preseason, it's supposed to be a world of pain and misery for everyone
tho mid feels kinda lonely now, that I like a lot
people were getting too nutsy about that, there was no way riot was gonna get rid of junglers altogether
it's preseason, it's supposed to be a world of pain and misery for everyone
tho mid feels kinda lonely now, that I like a lot
PhillipCostigan
Member
Jungle wasn't nerfed. Anyone who said that is just factually wrong. You get more gold and exp.
the point is that jungling is just more boring now.
Unless you're playing Elise who can do everything better than everyone else.
the point is that jungling is just more boring now.
Unless you're playing Elise who can do everything better than everyone else.
You should try upgrading them. They get pretty good at tier 3
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I wouldn't have cared if jungle became less mandatory too, I suck at jungle
It can go die
Bite me dimb
The jungle item hotfix makes them look pretty damn strong
Crab Milk Mickey
Member
WCG in general has been a joke and shady for years on end, I don't really know why anyone should pay attention to it.
Skyfireblaze
Member
Does anyone else also have troubles using active items and Summoner Skills? I've been playing LoL almost daily since February now and I still have trouble with using ignite and active items so I wanted to ask a bit for advice :/
My main champion is Ahri and while I have her combo of E --> W --> Q perfectly inside my muscle memory I still struggle to finish enemies off because my brain just can't handle the use of ignite...
It usually fire my combo and then my brain struggles because I suddenly have to hit D and aim perfectly at the champion instead of just into the general direction so that I usually miss the range and Ahri starts running off into attacks trying to ignite D: The same thing now also happens more often after the Ahri nerf since I run a Deathfire Grasp build in this meta along with Frost Queens Claim and while these are easier due to the extended range vs ignite I just can't bring myself to effectively use them without screwing myself over, 1 --> 2 --> E --> W --> Q --> D just seems too much to handle at once for me
Is there anyhow I can train to pull these things off better or does anyone have maybe a better key layout that helps? I already tried to put ignite on the thumb button of my mouse but that didn't help much, it's a Roccat Kone XTD if that mouse should have any magical features that might help me
My main champion is Ahri and while I have her combo of E --> W --> Q perfectly inside my muscle memory I still struggle to finish enemies off because my brain just can't handle the use of ignite...
It usually fire my combo and then my brain struggles because I suddenly have to hit D and aim perfectly at the champion instead of just into the general direction so that I usually miss the range and Ahri starts running off into attacks trying to ignite D: The same thing now also happens more often after the Ahri nerf since I run a Deathfire Grasp build in this meta along with Frost Queens Claim and while these are easier due to the extended range vs ignite I just can't bring myself to effectively use them without screwing myself over, 1 --> 2 --> E --> W --> Q --> D just seems too much to handle at once for me
Is there anyhow I can train to pull these things off better or does anyone have maybe a better key layout that helps? I already tried to put ignite on the thumb button of my mouse but that didn't help much, it's a Roccat Kone XTD if that mouse should have any magical features that might help me
Does anyone else also have troubles using active items and Summoner Skills? I've been playing LoL almost daily since February now and I still have trouble with using ignite and active items so I wanted to ask a bit for advice :/
My main champion is Ahri and while I have her combo of E --> W --> Q perfectly inside my muscle memory I still struggle to finish enemies off because my brain just can't handle the use of ignite...
It usually fire my combo and then my brain struggles because I suddenly have to hit D and aim perfectly at the champion instead of just into the general direction so that I usually miss the range and Ahri starts running off into attacks trying to ignite D: The same thing now also happens more often after the Ahri nerf since I run a Deathfire Grasp build in this meta along with Frost Queens Claim and while these are easier due to the extended range vs ignite I just can't bring myself to effectively use them without screwing myself over, 1 --> 2 --> E --> W --> Q --> D just seems too much to handle at once for me
Is there anyhow I can train to pull these things off better or does anyone have maybe a better key layout that helps? I already tried to put ignite on the thumb button of my mouse but that didn't help much, it's a Roccat Kone XTD if that mouse should have any magical features that might help me
You could buy a mouse with a bunch of side buttons, then hotkey your items and summoner spells to it.
Imperfected
Member
They have a full crop of world-class teams showing up for League this year. They won't play as hard as they would have for Worlds, but it's actually got a fair chance of being the highest-profile event outside of Worlds for the season based purely on the international pool of talent showing up.
The IEM events are great and all, but they're actually a pretty scant field in terms of the teams on board. They never really manage a full Asian powerhouse turnout.
Skyfireblaze
Member
I thought of that but since I'm generally happy with my Kone I'll try to first borrow one from a friend to see if a second mouse just for LoL is worth it, thanks for the tip
PROGRAM_IX
Member
I found this pretty helpful. Not for summoner spells (which I put on F and G instead of D and F) but for actives. I have forward/back buttons on my mouse, which I bind to items 4/6, and middle mouse to 5. Works pretty well, but it's still something you kind of have to remember to use. One possible thing would be to bind the smartcasts to the mouse buttons, and just make sure your mouse is in position before pressing. That keeps it to one button press and maybe avoids the panic you mentioned.
Crab Milk Mickey
Member
Boring is relative.
People are all over Renekton, Irelia and the like for top lane, but I couldn't imagine playing anyone that'd put me to sleep faster than those two. Meanwhile, I honestly enjoy Soraka.
It's hard to take support-related belly-aching seriously because that's what support players have been doing every single time for years no matter how slight a nerf is... or if the end result was actually a huge buff. Back when Sona (or Soraka) got remade in Season 3, the general consensus was that Riot ruined her. Turned out they did the opposite, and had to nerf her to compensate. There have been numerous instances where the exact same knee-jerking occured with x support champion of choice, where it became apparent it was usually moreso an issue of the 'die-hard supports' being skittish with regards to any change to their favorite character, wanting to keep them as they are for the sake of their own comfort zone, rather than legitimate observations.
Could Sona not be a good fit in pre-season 4 in her current state? That's a possibility. To say that she got destroyed or anything of the sort is far too soon though, since it takes weeks if not months to learn the game anew (depending on the frequency and scope of patches) in a way to figure out what is efficient, what is abusable, what the new optimal builds for x champions are yadda yadda. If nothing else, Sona will still be quite useable due to the strengths of her kit, even if the scaling on it may or may not be off relative to others.
Just be glad she isn't in the position Nunu's in right now.
Bot's always been a pain. Pre-season 4 did not suddenly make it far worse, and as in Season 3 I am still not inclined to ever pay heed to bot if they do not tell me anything about wards, available summoner spells and so forth prior to them writing "jungler sucks no ganks".
I'm not seeing a bunch of world-class teams at WCG. CLG, Chicks Dig Elo, Dignitas? A bunch of has-beens past their prime. Couple that with some no-name international teams and two Asian teams I'm not even sure about as to whether they accomplished something recently. Not a huge fan of IEM either (mostly due to tournament League being mindnumbing with its samey picks), but at least they seem to be a proper organisation unlike the World Cyber Games and all the horror stories they've been involved in over the years.
Imperfected
Member
Teams have to be mono-nationality and half the North American LCS teams are mixed Canadian and American teams. Though, frankly, you should get better results out of a patchwork team than bringing in Cloud 9 or TSM whole, anyway. Not that it matters; why are you even looking at the North American roster?
World Elite, OMG, and CJ Entus Blaze are playing. That's what matters. The fun of seeing them get stomped (yet again) aside, it really doesn't make a bit of difference whether they send Complexity, CLG, Dignitas, or the Sirens for that matter. The only real disappointment is that Moscow 5 isn't playing.
Crab Milk Mickey
Member
I must've been looking at the wrong list then, since I didn't spot World Elite, OMG and CJ Entus Blaze. Not being snarky.
That said, season 3 tournament-style League + WCG is reason enough for me to avoid watching it, but that's just personal preference at display here.
SteveWinwood
Member
when are you going to switch over completely
I guess I will just say that the old way wards worked was more fun to me. It's okay for the game to "snowball" on some aspects, and I like the idea of zone control meaning you have vision control. The process of preventing or detecting wards might as well have been removed from the game, and to me the outcome is less interesting for it. Zone control granting vision denial is not a bad idea, but many of the old systems in place regarding global gold on objectives and minion buffs across all lanes on inhib kills made it so that the winning team would have zone control across the map.
pro tip: everyone has always been able to buy wards.
Wolf Akela
Member
Haven't tested this yet, but apparently the bladed armor mastery procs elder lizard.
Elder Lizard as in item or as in the buff? Either way my understanding is that bladed armor shouldn't be proc'ing either.
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