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League of Legends |OT5| Premade Bot

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zkylon

zkylewd
Tear was usually a trap on Lux and those item nerfs affected everyone anyways. Lux' match-ups and scaling are nowhere near as bad you make them out to be. The 10 reduced movement speed is the only meaningful nerf, so I agree with your comment on that. The shield one is up for debate, given how much more potent and easier Karma's is. And don't give me inflated percentages. 25%? She lost 10 seconds on her flat cooldowns at max rank; that's miniscule. It'd almost be like saying that Jinx' 130% attack speed buff on her max rank Q is ridiculously OP... even though she has some of the worst innate attack speed stats in the game (also Tristana's Q laughs at her) for an ADC.

I don't play her very often anymore either so I understand where you're coming from, but for me it's due to other reasons and far from her supposedly being "bottom tier" or anything like that.
tear was actually really good on her prior to the nerfs as an alternative to a nerfed athene's. I forgot who gave me the idea to try it in this thread and I blindly ignored it for a long while and actually it was a great idea. tear+morello was just amazing for a while, and yea they killed it for everyone, for lux it's terrible as she's a champion pretty much that revolves around one of those two items. getting any of those is so bad on her right now I just rush deathcap+void staff and yolo. if my blue buff gets stolen it's gg but at least I deal damage this way.

and 10 seconds is a lot as it's a low-cooldown ultimate. saying 10 seconds without context doesn't really mean anything for the champion. she can shoot noticeably less lasers she could shoot before, I'm not trying to dress it up, now she comes up empty when she could pull some crazy spell rotations before.

as for matchups, it's always skill based and stuff but other than that I'd say she's bad against pretty much everyone: gragas, orianna, ziggs, zed, fizz, leblanc, syndra, ahri, riven, kass, all the good mids just shit on her (well to be fair she obviously does well against some of these pre-6). plus all these champions all have better late game than her.

seriously dude my mousepad has lux's face in it and I've played a good couple hundred games with her, but she has no place in mid lane right now, everything she does any good mid does better and whether she's one step or two above the shittiest mids doesn't really matter, she's still pretty much irrelevant.
 
How do you stop a team with a fed Tryndamere, Katharina, Kha'Zix, Caitlyn, and Annie? Split pushing and resets galore. Thankfully we were ahead in kills, but that didn't stop them from taking every tower except for our mid inhibitor tower. We got lucky and caught a few people out which led to a free Baron and eventually the win. We'd easily win a 5v5 team fight but never got it.

Edit: our team was Volibear, Olaf, Lux, Jinx, and Nami. Ended up getting a Bork because I needed the chasing power.

You build armor. Katarina's damage isn't that high without resets, and in that setup she's reliant on AD champions to get people low enough for her to reset off of them. This also presents the Kha'Zix resets and at least gives you something resembling a means of dealing with Caitlyn and Tryndamere.

Invade level one. Yeah, invading into Annie sucks, but Trynd, Kha, and Kat are all pretty trash level one, especially with a catch chain like Lux-Voli-Nami. Try to get both blue buffs. You want to put Kha behind and get the timer on the buff. Remember that Kat isn't likely to take blue buff, so if you have the timer you have a good chance to harass him when he comes back for it. You don't actually have to do much more than this to slow Kha down enough for him to become a non-factor, since Jungle Kha just doesn't have the bankroll of Mid Kha.

You gank Tryndamere early and often, because once he reaches take-off velocity he's not coming back down. Lux vs. Katarina is going to suck unless the Kat is bad, and unless she's really bad ganks aren't likely to help, but Lux should at least be able to cover the tower and stall the lane. The same for Jinx/Nami vs. Cait/Annie: accept the jungler's going to be living in the top lane and just concentrate on delaying the tower take for as long as possible. Resist the urge to fish for picks (they're probably gank-bait) and save Flamechompers/Bubbles for escaping.

The first dragon is probably theirs since their bot lane is going to be able to pressure yours, and their Lv6 is generally too risky to deal with unless you have superior position. Try to use the opportunity to gank Tryn again and push top lane back to the second tower. Get that lane nice and long so that you can actually punish him for pushing it later, just remember that if you get the Tier 2 tower he might freeze to farm, in which case you're going to need to send your top lane down the map to spread the love jungle's been giving him to everyone else - get some nice revenge for all that lane-bullying you've been suffering.

The minute Tryn starts playing at a split-push, group as five and rush down mid. Their wave clear is a combination of Caitlyn and prayers, and their siege defense isn't much better. Their only real option is to try to all-in you with Annie, Kha, and Kat, and if they do it with Tryn away you should still win as long as Jinx and Lux aren't out of position. They can't reset easily off Olaf and Voli.

Your teamfight is about staying out of the jungle unless you have absolute vision superiority and grouped as five. Annie and Kat combo might seem scary at first, but you have enough CC and survivability (heals, shields, and innate tankiness) to overcome it. The real danger is having stragglers get picked off and ending up with a running teamfight where Kha and Kat are leapfrogging all over people.
 

IsayFever

Member
queue up for a normal game for fun, get matched against the #1 guy on the ladder

fuck this shit

RrJu0F2.gif
 

dimb

Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
Whimsy the ADC and you're good there.
...you are stunned. honestly are you guys trolling or something? you don't even have whimsy until four. only reason to pick lulu right now is because she does well with draven, who is a decent pick right now.
 
...you are stunned. honestly are you guys trolling or something? you don't even have whimsy until four. only reason to pick lulu right now is because she does well with draven, who is a decent pick right now.

Glitterlance has 925 range... Annie's W is 625.

We're not playing against Xpecial here. Take it easy.
 
Glitterlance if Annie walks up to Q or W. Whimsy if your ADC gets engaged on. That's how you play Lulu, no?

And which support is going to out-range Annie? Zilean's 600 comes the closest.
 

Kenai

Member
so yea ideas would be (don't have to do all ofc, just spitballing here):
  • passive only resets on champions (maybe it has half effect on minions or something)
  • make his ult more about the bullseye since it's so easy to land
  • lower his movement speed to 325 like all the other pokemasters (I'd rather not do this since it's really painful but for the sake of balance he should be a low mobility champion)
  • lower his range to 550
  • lower passive damage. I'd really remove his weird scaling on his passive, like "13 + (7 / 8 / 9 / 10 at each level) (+ 35% AP)" is too weird. just make it like 13 + 7 per level + 39% AP or something.

A few points:

The bullseye does matter kind of a lot, since -25% damage is notable. Ultt's got no additional effects and Ziggs doesn't really have hard CC to freeze you for it, and even for those without an avoid move a Flash would do (he could theoretically knock you into it with his W but that's not easy to do at all and means he loses his escape). Since avoid moves and generally high mobility are all the rage right now chances are a lot of the enemy team will dodge it without a hard CC setup from teammates.

I'd rather not touch movement speed either since that seems like a kiss of death for someone like Ziggs, his escape isn't *that* good to offset it and mobility isn't a strength of his anyway.

I'd say hit the passive. Being able to push a lane so well and murder a tower at the same time might be overkill, and consistent scaling on it might be a good thing for planning purposes. Needing to remember what random levels his AA spikes doesn't seem like great design. I feel like his passive was made back when the heavy mana regen items that he needed to function didn't upgrade into anything powerful so he had his AA to fall back on as the extra damage to offset. But since he gets so much extra gold from easy lane as well as being able to spam with just a chalice/grail (and that amazing Q/Doran's synergy) he might not need it as much anymore.
 
His damage output drops rather hard if he didn't have his passive, especially in late game teamfights. He really only has one spammable spell for 5v5s. Look at the cooldowns of the rest of his kit: 18 seconds, 16 seconds, 90 seconds. Lux cooldowns are 11/10/10/50, and they all have enough utility in them to make her a decent support.

And yes Ziggs ult is fine considering it has zero utility. You're not really gonna force flashes with it in teamfights. It also takes a while to land (2-3.5 secs depending on distance).
 

Fracas

#fuckonami
Whoa, everyone in my game just got crippling lag. Something up with the servers?

edit: and now my whole team got kicked and i can't log back in. wtf
 

dimb

Bjergsen is the greatest midlane in the world
Glitterlance if Annie walks up to Q or W.
she doesn't have to she will outscale you and shoot for all ins. on its own glitterlance is really weak. support on support harass in bot lane is not very strong with hp regen so high. annie also doesn't have the mana problems that lulu does.

idc. it's just annoying to see people that don't play or understand the champ say she's super strong and that her worst matchups are her best.
And which support is going to out-range Annie? Zilean's 600 comes the closest.
you don't play harass lanes against annie.
 
His damage output drops rather hard if he didn't have his passive, especially in late game teamfights. He really only has one spammable spell for 5v5s. Look at the cooldowns of the rest of his kit: 18 seconds, 16 seconds, 90 seconds. Lux cooldowns are 11/10/10/50, and they all have enough utility in them to make her a decent support.

The problem is his spammable spell is really good and really spammable, and the duration for the Hexplosive Minefield is also high enough that the cooldown can become almost a non-issue. They probably need to jack up the CDs for both (and maybe compensate by lowering the CD on his Satchel to make him a little "safer" in exchange for the lost poke/wave-clear) to get him in a decent place.

His Bouncing Bomb cooldown with CDR is so ridiculous I literally start to think it's his auto-attack. It's pretty ridiculous.
 

zkylon

zkylewd
A few points:

The bullseye does matter kind of a lot, since -25% damage is notable. Ultt's got no additional effects and Ziggs doesn't really have hard CC to freeze you for it, and even for those without an avoid move a Flash would do (he could theoretically knock you into it with his W but that's not easy to do at all and means he loses his escape). Since avoid moves and generally high mobility are all the rage right now chances are a lot of the enemy team will dodge it without a hard CC setup from teammates.
I'd love to see what 40 or 50% would be like (so like 100% on bullseye, then gradually decreases until 50-40). the area and the range of his ult are huge, it's usually hard to get out of it with flash and if you just barely get hit by the border it's pretty much wasting flash or you just barely survive.

would have to see how much this ruins his teamfighting, but to me it should be harder to land, if you're dueling him he just drops it in your head and making it out is just too fucking hard and too punishing if you don't make it.

I'd rather not touch movement speed either since that seems like a kiss of death for someone like Ziggs, his escape isn't *that* good to offset it and mobility isn't a strength of his anyway.
575 range on autos and 1000ish range on his main poke plus an escape make him really really safe so I don't think it would totally kill him but yea movement speed was the death of lux, no need for her sacrifice to have been in vain

I'd say hit the passive. Being able to push a lane so well and murder a tower at the same time might be overkill, and consistent scaling on it might be a good thing for planning purposes. Needing to remember what random levels his AA spikes doesn't seem like great design. I feel like his passive was made back when the heavy mana regen items that he needed to function didn't upgrade into anything powerful so he had his AA to fall back on as the extra damage to offset. But since he gets so much extra gold from easy lane as well as being able to spam with just a chalice/grail (and that amazing Q/Doran's synergy) he might not need it as much anymore.
yup, passive seems like the way to go.

His damage output drops rather hard if he didn't have his passive, especially in late game teamfights. He really only has one spammable spell for 5v5s. Look at the cooldowns of the rest of his kit: 18 seconds, 16 seconds, 90 seconds. Lux cooldowns are 11/10/10/50, and they all have enough utility in them to make her a decent support.
yea but his one spammy spell has a 4 second cooldown and refreshes his passive. also deals a crapton of damage and is really easy to land.

also minefield is amazing at zoning

plus if you change the passive to only get the mini-reset on champions it doesn't change his teamfighting at all, just makes him weaker in lane, which is the one thing I find annoying about ziggs

And yes Ziggs ult is fine considering it has zero utility. You're not really gonna force flashes with it in teamfights. It also takes a while to land (2-3.5 secs depending on distance).
just dropping ideas, it was stupid easy to land from my experience
 

zkylon

zkylewd
meanwhile I just beat a ziggs as ori but to be fair he was pretty terrible and I was pretty mad after being destroyed by that challenger khazix
 
I now feel like I've been playing League for a good amount of time because Ziggs was the first champ I ever bought and back then he was just kind of meh to people.
 

Burt

Member
Does it count as feeding if every time you die it's during a gank and you get a kill and assist vs. their kill?

Also, they had a Shen that actually knew how to use his ult. Not sure what rank he was, but I'm bronze V, so it was pretty refreshing to see it done right.
 
Just carried as jungle Gragas. 10/0/9. I was richer than our midlane, although probably because Ori isn't a good matchup vs Brand (not sure). Enemy bot lane was real mad in chat asking if I've got anything against them. Our botlane went from slightly losing to a 12/1 Jinx. Our Blitz talked trash so we just reported him (4 man queue).

Seriously loving his clear speed and sustain especially early on.
 

zkylon

zkylewd
Does it count as feeding if every time you die it's during a gank and you get a kill and assist vs. their kill?
not necessarily but if you're dying to ganks and getting the kill it's never worth because of assist gold. (unless you made them waste double buffs or summoners or something, but still debatable)

but generally if you're repeatedly dying to something it's probably your fault. getting camped sucks but c'est la vie just pull the lane and chill farming while their jungler wastes his time. getting countered also sucks but again just chill and play safe.
 
and 10 seconds is a lot as it's a low-cooldown ultimate. saying 10 seconds without context doesn't really mean anything for the champion. she can shoot noticeably less lasers she could shoot before, I'm not trying to dress it up, now she comes up empty when she could pull some crazy spell rotations before.

as for matchups, it's always skill based and stuff but other than that I'd say she's bad against pretty much everyone: gragas, orianna, ziggs, zed, fizz, leblanc, syndra, ahri, riven, kass, all the good mids just shit on her (well to be fair she obviously does well against some of these pre-6). plus all these champions all have better late game than her.

seriously dude my mousepad has lux's face in it and I've played a good couple hundred games with her, but she has no place in mid lane right now, everything she does any good mid does better and whether she's one step or two above the shittiest mids doesn't really matter, she's still pretty much irrelevant.
Eh, 10 seconds still isn't a lot for a champion that'll eventually get around to having some CDR, never mind the range on that max rank ult. Without some it doesn't make too much of a difference either, except now she has to put some thought into the timing of her full spell rotation rather than throwing everything out there willy-nilly until something sticks by chance or not like a makeshift Nidalee with rainbows. Her being able to shoot less lasers over time is only a nagging issue in prolonged teamfights that last over two minutes roughly speaking and I haven't seen those with high frequency after Season 2 ended.

Some of those match-ups you mentioned aren't actually even bad for her. Gragas, Ahri, Orianna and Fizz in particular, their previous states prior to their respective nerfs included. Zed is walking a fine line; since his early laning phase isn't good there's room to outplay him and to effectively put him in his place, but I do agree with everyone else. Riven's a moot point though, 'cause she messes up a big chunk of AP champions regardless. If you're looking for a raw damage dealer then yes, Lux isn't the most reliable of choices (and Karma performs a similar role to some extent with less difficulty) but she still has her place in the game with numerous strengths even in the headless chicken arena dubbed as solo queue. Just not "instapick or -lock" for reasons we've already detailed.

(P.S.: have her partner up with motherfuckin' Trundle)

yea and it's $10 worth. Big ol ripoff.
Alphabet's pretty expensive man.
 

So. Hard game was hard.

I use this firewall application that occasionally freaks out with League causing me to have to restart. Dunno what it doesn't like about League, but it shuts down my network connection and everything. Consequently, I had to restart and the game was at 4 minutes when I joined, and my lane opponent (Kha) was 4 levels and 30cs ahead...and just as I connect, Evelynn feeds him a kill for good measure.

Lane won't be fun.

I never did catch up to him during the laning phase in farm and consequently my itemization was behind. Pushed into our base for the last 20 minutes of the game, we were able to consistently rebuff their pushes to take our inhibs, even with the Vile buff. Mostly because silence is OP against a team that's utterly dependent on casting abilities...and because Ahri was money in the bank on those charms. Every time Kha would leap in on Ahri and try to blow her up, I was right there like a body guard silencing and spinning to win. Eventually, we put a few Aces together and took the game, but even when we pushed to win, I'm sure we were far behind.

I know CC is often the key to winning, but silence is just as effective if not better against the right comp. Nothing feels quite as good as silencing Kha mid leap and leaving him standing there in the middle of your team unable to do anything he wanted to do, or denying a Brand hoping to get off his ult the opportunity to do so. The game before this one, I stalled and saved the game with AP carry Soraka silencing a Brand and a Shaco preventing them from combo'ing and going invis, respectively when they needed to.

I'll never know how Ahri did that much damage, btw. She did > 50% more damage than anyone else did in the game. I don't even know when. I suppose I was too tunnel visioned on peeling Kha and Brand off their backs to notice what they were up to.

Also, took most of the damage for the team, while finishing with an 11-kill streak. Garen da Based God.

edit: side note - I really hate when people go 100% tank in 3v3. You need to build SOME offensive items. If that Mundo had bought any decent offensive item, they probably finish that game. Just being a meat shield isn't good enough in 3v3.
 

Newt

Member
So. Hard game was hard.
edit: side note - I really hate when people go 100% tank in 3v3. You need to build SOME offensive items. If that Mundo had bought any decent offensive item, they probably finish that game. Just being a meat shield isn't good enough in 3v3.
Offensive items for Mundo...aren't very effective.
 
Liandry is a good offense item on Mundo. Sorc Shoes are fine if you're still tanking damage fine. You can sorta make a case for Wits/IE as your last item if you're super fed and your team lacks damage (ie team usually dies while you're still healthy).

My bed looks so comfy but CJ Blaze vs KT Bullets starts in like 10 mins.

..Ya, ill just watch the rebroadcast..

I don't see it on Twitch...? ongamenet is offline.
 

Newt

Member
Liandry is a good offense item on Mundo. Sorc Shoes are fine if you're still tanking damage fine. You can sorta make a case for Wits/IE as your last item if you're super fed and your team lacks damage (ie team usually dies while you're still healthy).
I wouldn't really classify Brand or Kha'Zix as lacking damage. I personally think that's Mundo's build was fine.
 
Wombo combo is hilarious. I just played Leo support on a team with Fiddle mid, Vlad top, and Amumu jungle. Jinx adc. We were outplayed constantly, but won baron fights and late teamfights with our ridiculous cc and aoe damage. Was kinda unfair. Their fed Jax got stunned by me, then me again, then amumu, then feared.

I honestly feel like we deserved to lose. I was horrible, went 0-10-25.
 
I don't see it on Twitch...? ongamenet is offline.

http://game.pandora.tv/

Edit: What you've missed so far: KT banned out tops to try and put Blaze in a stitch, Blaze left most picks open to try and get the two big picks on red side. The result is both teams are sort of godless messes that include picks that probably shouldn't have slipped through, much less on the same teams, but it should be fun to watch this disaster unfold in-game since I really doubt either team has actually practiced running these exact compositions.
 
not necessarily but if you're dying to ganks and getting the kill it's never worth because of assist gold. (unless you made them waste double buffs or summoners or something, but still debatable)

but generally if you're repeatedly dying to something it's probably your fault. getting camped sucks but c'est la vie just pull the lane and chill farming while their jungler wastes his time. getting countered also sucks but again just chill and play safe.

Expanding on this, if you get dived, and die, 9/10 times it IS your fault. The number of times I've had laners say "it wasn't my fault I got dived" is ridiculous. No, your tower is not going to save you as a half hp level 5 Nasus when the enemy Lee Sin and Jax dive you with your flash down.

Elise is a fun champion. Sometimes I go a bit too deep going for kills early. A few times I've traded kills on counter jungle invades where I 1v2 and come out with a kill. Not worth it obviously, but it definitely feels like you outplayed them when you rappel their ult then flash q to the escaping jungler. I really need to learn Lee Sin. My problem with him is as the game drags on I struggle to make an impact. With Elise as the game drags on I stay relevant with my %hp damage, poke, cc, and mobility. I should be able to do the same with Lee Sin but I lack practice and I'm always confused how to build him.
 
That was one long Thresh hook, on a Kassadin no less.

I can never be mad when a Thresh takes a ride that long, even when it's absolutely the worst possible thing to do. It just looks so fun.

Monte: "Olaf is really good in toplane against Mundo because he has that true damage to cut through some of his tankiness early."

Monte, there are so many things wrong with that statement I don't even know where to start.
 

Pandaman

Everything is moe to me
Glitterlance: Lulu and Pix each fire a magic bolt

what. Plus, unless you're fighting Caitlyn, Kog'Maw, Twitch ult'd, Tristana, or Jinx with her rockets out, you have more range than any champion.

Christ guys, it's super easy to put Pix on someone and hit at least 4/5 in a teamfight with Glitterlance, dealing 350+ damage after resists and slowing them by at least 60% for two seconds. The Pix target get hit for over 700.
if your strategy is for the other team to forget you're building ap and just let your squishy ass walk through a teamfight, there are a lot of other champions who can efficiently erase ADC's and still be useful after that.

what. Plus, unless you're fighting Caitlyn, Kog'Maw, Twitch ult'd, Tristana, or Jinx with her rockets out, you have more range than any champion.
...
what.
 
what. Plus, unless you're fighting Caitlyn, Kog'Maw, Twitch ult'd, Tristana, or Jinx with her rockets out, you have more range than any champion.
There's more to range than just auto attack range. What's stopping someone like Lucian from dashing in your face and instantly exploding you, or any bruiser with a gap closer for that matter?

You can only whimsy one guy.
 

Pandaman

Everything is moe to me
There's more to range than just auto attack range. What's stopping someone like Lucian from dashing in your face and instantly exploding you, or any bruiser with a gap closer for that matter?

You can only whimsy one guy.
plus spellcast range is measured differently from auto attack range anyway, so that 650 is more like 550.
 
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