so much this
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League of Legends |OT5| Premade Bot
- Thread starter Dobkeratops
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Stone Ocean
Member
Why do I always have to get stuck on roles I don't want to play in my promos
Porque
Porque
There is absolutely no need for Thresh to out tank Leona for kills in lane. He can get kills much easier than that.
i don't think thresh is op even tho he's naturally good at pretty much everything. like you can stick him with any adc on any lane strategy and he'll work, but i don't think that's bad. in fact, i think most supports should work like that since you have to accommodate for an adc and provide them with opportunities and save them when needed, a support needs to be versatile and crafty
i think annie and (s4) leona are much more harmful for the role as they really simplify bot lane since they're not really interesting in trading, they just blow you up instantly
like if you ask me thresh is pretty much the best champion in teh game, everything about him feels great (aside from his now nerfed ult and the semi-recurrent flay bug), and you get to make plays, chain your kit together in fun ways, help your team when ahead and behind and just fit a lot of comps overall
like i wish every support was as fun to play as thresh
hey dude, I got placed jungle on my last promos
jungle
I've played jungle like 4 times in my life
I had no fucking idea what i was doing lol
(i still think i did better than some of my teammates heh)
i think annie and (s4) leona are much more harmful for the role as they really simplify bot lane since they're not really interesting in trading, they just blow you up instantly
like if you ask me thresh is pretty much the best champion in teh game, everything about him feels great (aside from his now nerfed ult and the semi-recurrent flay bug), and you get to make plays, chain your kit together in fun ways, help your team when ahead and behind and just fit a lot of comps overall
like i wish every support was as fun to play as thresh
hey dude, I got placed jungle on my last promos
jungle
I've played jungle like 4 times in my life
I had no fucking idea what i was doing lol
(i still think i did better than some of my teammates heh)
Terbinator
Member
Maybe out-trade rather than out-tank, then.
here's the thing about thresh v leona
a bad leona player (mechanically) is still a good support, because she's really easy. as long as the leona has good decision making skills and judgement, she's still going to be effective with her point and click CC. The only difficult thing to land is her E, and usually only because how slowly it comes out.
but a bad thresh player (mechanically) is going to be a bad support, simply because of the knowledge and mechanics required with the great utility of the flay, the lantern, timing of the box (FUCK YOU RITO), etc.
tldr: a mechanically bad but good game knowledgeable leona will still rock as support
a mechanically bad but good game knowledgeable thresh will do awful as support
leona's kit is def the go-to for beginners
a bad leona player (mechanically) is still a good support, because she's really easy. as long as the leona has good decision making skills and judgement, she's still going to be effective with her point and click CC. The only difficult thing to land is her E, and usually only because how slowly it comes out.
but a bad thresh player (mechanically) is going to be a bad support, simply because of the knowledge and mechanics required with the great utility of the flay, the lantern, timing of the box (FUCK YOU RITO), etc.
tldr: a mechanically bad but good game knowledgeable leona will still rock as support
a mechanically bad but good game knowledgeable thresh will do awful as support
leona's kit is def the go-to for beginners
He does out-trade her very easily though with his E attack steroid combined with ranged attack. Leona cannot engage on him due to the flay.
Terbinator
Member
I dunno. I don't go into lane expecting to lose to Thresh as a Leona. Although it would help if my ADC proc'd all of the debuffs, like.
Stone Ocean
Member
I can play everything but I'm so rusty with all roles besides solo lanes that if I have to bot I just get rekt
I mean, I'll probably support before playing ADC right now. Bot lane is so awful in S4
that game you just played was great. nasus out base trading an uncontested 4 man push down mid was crazy. then that baron throw.
I've played the matchup loads of times from both sides. You're not necessarily going to lose against Thresh, but unless Thresh is incompetent you will not be able to engage until level 6, and if you cannot do that you will have a miserable time as Leona, as you cannot contribute to the lane. Thresh can harass your adc, but you cannot do the same due to the lack of ranged attacks. Thresh can hit a hook for free harass without having to commit to it unless he knows his side can win an all in. Leona does not have that luxury.
Post level 6, it's very possible to catch up and win the lane as Leona, unless you have lost too much in the pre-6 laning due to Leona's lack of presence. Leona is more susceptible to ganks as she does not have any way to disengage after she has committed.
Stone Ocean
Member
Man that was so fucking scary. Susan just doing whatever the fuck he wanted after getting fed, LeBlanc jumping out of nowhere making me build a billion MR, Kha Zix just going ham and we just trading teamfights one after another. Fucked up so bad in laning phase, LeBlanc was my bitch and then I gave her an advantage when she got her blue buff. Kha never even passed by to say hello but hey, he was snowballing the other lanes so can't complain. I managed to snowball off teamfights later so it was all good - praise Banshee's Veil, our lord and savior.
Plus that goddamn Panth backdoor scared the shit out of me.
Thresh on sale? Wow, anyone would think it is my birth...
[check calender]
Well played Rito, well played.
Cannot wait to really get stuck into him, as I'm inevitably better on support than anything else. Mainly as I just let everyone else pick and end up with support. Who cares, hooks all day.
[check calender]
Well played Rito, well played.
Cannot wait to really get stuck into him, as I'm inevitably better on support than anything else. Mainly as I just let everyone else pick and end up with support. Who cares, hooks all day.
PhillipCostigan
Member
The power of Fiora will carry you
I need to work on Thresh more. Especially with upcoming Annie nerfs. I won't have any supports left to play except Leona.
I'd say he's the most mechanically demanding support. Neko pretty much hit it on the head that general mechanics and game knowledge won't make you a successful Thresh player. You have to get good with his kit specifically. I know I still have trouble with his lantern range. I haven't felt the need to take smartcast off anything in ages but his lantern may be one of them. I'm shift-W more often than not just to get the range. It's kind of deceiving with the tether range being MUCH longer than the throw range.
I'd say he's the most mechanically demanding support. Neko pretty much hit it on the head that general mechanics and game knowledge won't make you a successful Thresh player. You have to get good with his kit specifically. I know I still have trouble with his lantern range. I haven't felt the need to take smartcast off anything in ages but his lantern may be one of them. I'm shift-W more often than not just to get the range. It's kind of deceiving with the tether range being MUCH longer than the throw range.
davidsaurus
Member
I've been gone for over 9 months, and haven't played seriously in over a year. Looking back I see only 4-5 champions have been released since then. Which seems a little slow for Riot.
Regardless, what would you guys say are the main changes to the game that I should be aware of? Including meta changes - I see the wards have changed and the interface a little. What else?
Regardless, what would you guys say are the main changes to the game that I should be aware of? Including meta changes - I see the wards have changed and the interface a little. What else?
I have a bunch of IP so I bought Dr. Mundo and Morgana last night. Mundo is a lil boring up top, but I just farmed until I had a Randuins, Tabis, and Spirit Visage. It's pretty awesome just taking everyone's skillshots to the face for your team. If i'm too low on health, I can just pop my ult. Even if I lose too much health after that, I can just recall and regen and tp back into the battle. Generally speaking, is 9/21 better on mundo, or 0/21/9? I went with points in utility for the hp regen, movespeed, and summoner spell cdr. I don't really have a tank mastery page, so I ended up using my support one with gold per, armor yellow and reds, and mr blues.
The Morgana game started as a disaster, but ended up being a fun 4v5 comeback win. Our Maokai mid quit after a few minutes because our Wukong didn't gank for him first. I happened to go damage runes and masteries as second carry, so after we extended the game as long as we could and snuck in a couple baron's, we aced them twice and ended up winning the game. I started with spellthief and it was my first time using the item. I feel like I like coin better, especially because of the active. I also think it's shenanigans that zhonyas doesn't break her ult, but I wasn't complaining. I was looking for another support to try out, because all I have been using is Leona lately and she has been boring me.
I still have like 5k ip left over. I've still been using gold per runes on my supports. Does anyone else still use them? Or would it be better to switch over to HP runes at least on tanks like Leona and Alistar.
The Morgana game started as a disaster, but ended up being a fun 4v5 comeback win. Our Maokai mid quit after a few minutes because our Wukong didn't gank for him first. I happened to go damage runes and masteries as second carry, so after we extended the game as long as we could and snuck in a couple baron's, we aced them twice and ended up winning the game. I started with spellthief and it was my first time using the item. I feel like I like coin better, especially because of the active. I also think it's shenanigans that zhonyas doesn't break her ult, but I wasn't complaining. I was looking for another support to try out, because all I have been using is Leona lately and she has been boring me.
I still have like 5k ip left over. I've still been using gold per runes on my supports. Does anyone else still use them? Or would it be better to switch over to HP runes at least on tanks like Leona and Alistar.
The list is long and distinguished.
This site might help you get started. It's the big Season 4 overhaul.
http://preseason.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/index.html
I swapped my support quints to flat health.
I tried to hold off as they said they were going to rework some runes but I pulled the trigger a couple months ago and I've been happy with it.
I run HP quints on everyone (some other runes on some supports, but never gold quints). They are superior to the gold quints unless the lane is ridiculously passive.
SUPER WEEK is here!
Copenhagen Wolves vs Fnatic
Roccat vs Gambit Gaming
SK Gaming vs Millenium
Supa Hot Crew vs Alliance
Roccat vs Millenium
EU LCS Week 8 Preview
Road Trip! From Austria to the LCS
The Recap: NA Challenger Series 2 Play-In
The Recap: NA LCS Week 7
The Recap: EU Challenger Series 2 Play-In
The Recap: EU LCS Week 7
How to Watch
Twitch
YouTube
Azubu
Remember to check out the LCS Season 4 thread for discussion. Let's try to keep this thread spoiler free.
Copenhagen Wolves vs Fnatic
Roccat vs Gambit Gaming
SK Gaming vs Millenium
Supa Hot Crew vs Alliance
Roccat vs Millenium
EU LCS Week 8 Preview
Road Trip! From Austria to the LCS
The Recap: NA Challenger Series 2 Play-In
The Recap: NA LCS Week 7
The Recap: EU Challenger Series 2 Play-In
The Recap: EU LCS Week 7
How to Watch
Twitch
YouTube
Azubu
Remember to check out the LCS Season 4 thread for discussion. Let's try to keep this thread spoiler free.
PROGRAM_IX
Member
In 2012 I spent about three hours on March 17th playing Shamrock Malphite and wishing everyone a happy St. Patrick's Day in all chat. Good times.
Wow. What is this feeling. It's...beautiful.
You could tone down the Program-hate :<
Dobkeratops
OT Hard Carry
Thread status:
We're adhering to EU Directive 2002/56/EC in regards to allowed Program-hate levels.
We're adhering to EU Directive 2002/56/EC in regards to allowed Program-hate levels.
Mister Negative
Member
Oh, to return to the days of pre-30, where hitting one hook with Thresh won lane and made me a god.
PROGRAM_IX
Member
Damn. I knew I shouldn't have let that directive go through. :/ It was supposed to restrict the hate to acceptable levels, not allow for more!
Sorry gents, but any champion who absolutely dominates their role like Thresh for nearly a full year is absolutely OP. The "do it all" champions are a huge issue to game health. At least Meddler finally said what players have been saying forever now - Thresh is overloaded. Maybe now Riot will actually do something about it.
At any rate, finished my little set of jungle Xin Zhao games last night and he's pretty fun. He's simple, but the way Three Talon Strikes works with his other abilities and the knockback on his ult gives him something interesting despite being an otherwise typical bruiser. I really liked how I had lots of build variety. Biggest problem to me oddly is that he's such a bland champion visually, a typically boring Demacian. Warring Kingdoms skin at 1350IP with zero new animations or effects is a joke.
At any rate, finished my little set of jungle Xin Zhao games last night and he's pretty fun. He's simple, but the way Three Talon Strikes works with his other abilities and the knockback on his ult gives him something interesting despite being an otherwise typical bruiser. I really liked how I had lots of build variety. Biggest problem to me oddly is that he's such a bland champion visually, a typically boring Demacian. Warring Kingdoms skin at 1350IP with zero new animations or effects is a joke.
just incase ppl dont luk at reddit, cos dis is worth it
i agree with drawkcab for wunce
'thresh is harder to play' and while true is not a factor for balance in any case
thresh just does everything. theres no two ways about it. leona might be inherently tankier, but thresh harasses better, peels much better, and has a safer engage tool.
when he came out i was so surprised he, not only was ranged, but has a harass passive?! jesus christ he was the god of engage and he could harass people out of lane to boot. i say we make him melee.
i agree with drawkcab for wunce
'thresh is harder to play' and while true is not a factor for balance in any case
thresh just does everything. theres no two ways about it. leona might be inherently tankier, but thresh harasses better, peels much better, and has a safer engage tool.
when he came out i was so surprised he, not only was ranged, but has a harass passive?! jesus christ he was the god of engage and he could harass people out of lane to boot. i say we make him melee.
Indeed, he just does too much. Even though he can't initiate just as well as Leona or peel just as good as Janna he is near the best in every category. His lantern as a single skill is essentially better than any non-ultimate skill that any other support have.
I wonder what would happen if they greatly lowered or removed the stun from his hook. That way he would not get such a safe initiation.
After umming and ahhing for a bit, decided to give jungle Diana another go. Kind of a shame I'm against people who have clocked three times as many games as me, but I'll give it a go.
That, well...yes. Okay it may not be as top tier as some other picks, and you have no hard cc but damn, people get deleted if you play it right. I know the usual route would be spectral wraith and seekers, but what would you generally get after that? Nashors looks good, but someone also mentioned lich bane might be useful as well. Cannot seem to find many jungle Diana guides right now.
That, well...yes. Okay it may not be as top tier as some other picks, and you have no hard cc but damn, people get deleted if you play it right. I know the usual route would be spectral wraith and seekers, but what would you generally get after that? Nashors looks good, but someone also mentioned lich bane might be useful as well. Cannot seem to find many jungle Diana guides right now.
It will be nice to have 6 bans again.
Wolf Akela
Member
Jungle Rammus starting with Relic Shield... also he had no leash because our Lux was DC'd for the first 5 minutes. I couldn't go there as Thresh because the entire enemy team was really exerting presence at bot and might tenderize my Quinn. Rammus didn't pick up Machete until I politely pointed it out.
Saw a Nasus that dumpstered Shyvana over and over.
Such a weird match.
Saw a Nasus that dumpstered Shyvana over and over.
Such a weird match.
We won
kassadin players still dont get to play kassadin.
Bull. Thresh has dominated his role because he is well suited to it. He has his counters; Lulu is very strong against him in the right hands, and Leona is a skill matchup.
I feel like people who don't fully understand the "support" role in terms of utility and peel see the non-AP orientated supports as OP because, well, they're DESIGNED to support and nothing else. So they're really fucking good at it.
If you mean that the new kassadin won't be the "real", old kassadin, then agreed. He appears to be more anti mage than anti everything now. Only having magic shield on Q ensures that.
Wolf Akela
Member
That's the thing though... he was overly purposed as support. The E passive alone was designed with the notion that supports harass every now and then, usually just in time for the E passive to refill. He also offers a form of escape that no one else can do.
It's similar to vanilla Graves. He was designed to fill the ADC role from ground up, and had everything an ADC wanted: steroid, dash/escape, beef, burst, wave clear / harass and utility.
---
Speaking of Thresh, is it just me or are there some weird bugs with him?
a) Sometimes his hook bends the wrong way during autoattacks. Like, if I attack something, his hook sorta becomes completely straight and visually hits something else.
b) Sometimes, my Flay goes backwards.
PROGRAM_IX
Member
Kinda hope they don't wreck him like they did Graves though. :/
Imperfected
Member
I'm not sure Thresh is actually particularly OP at the moment. I'd have to check my figures, but I don't think his professional level win rate is actually as high as Annie or Leona, or for that matter even many of the unconventional/off-picks.
He's sort of like Lucian in that regard. Yeah, everyone plays him and he technically fits every comp, but he's often not the best pick for that comp and more of a middling compromise made due to a preferred champion being unavailable or inadvisable for the specific match-up.
I don't think everyone liking a champion makes them automatically OP. Everyone still likes Lee Sin a whole lot, but frankly he's sort of garbage at this point. Sometimes people actually like to play the champion, even if their win rate doesn't back up the faith in their potency; this is very likely to be the case with champions like Thresh or Lee Sin who offer unique utility or kits with a lot of outplay potential.
He's sort of like Lucian in that regard. Yeah, everyone plays him and he technically fits every comp, but he's often not the best pick for that comp and more of a middling compromise made due to a preferred champion being unavailable or inadvisable for the specific match-up.
I don't think everyone liking a champion makes them automatically OP. Everyone still likes Lee Sin a whole lot, but frankly he's sort of garbage at this point. Sometimes people actually like to play the champion, even if their win rate doesn't back up the faith in their potency; this is very likely to be the case with champions like Thresh or Lee Sin who offer unique utility or kits with a lot of outplay potential.
I don't think Lulu support is really strong against anyone, atm.
The only reason non-AP supports are so strong right now is because building AP on supports is so useless, and non-AP supp can just go full tank + free tank stats and become very difficult to kill. We're also overestimating the difficulty here, Thresh is actually probably in the mid tier in terms of difficulty for supports. Playing someone like Nami is much more difficult.
lol
Yeah. I think Pantheon kind of falls into this category. He's got almost a 20% pick rate now but his winrate still only floats around 50%. Almost the definition of a balanced popular champ just looking at the numbers.
Despite that he feels really strong to me. My winrate including normals has to be around 80% with him.
I would not be at all surprised if they nerfed his ultimate range though. Nocturne got that treatment when he was at the height of his popularity. It still amazes me how far Panth can jump.
Imperfected
Member
He is, man. He still seems good because there are literally thousands of people who played him almost exclusively for such a long time that there are more Lee Sin Gods out there than pretty much anything else in the game. The number of people who have everything they need and want to do on the champion committed to reflex-level muscle memory completely distorts his actual power.
Put him in the hands of a player who's very good, but started jungling this season or late last season and therefore hasn't spammed thousands upon thousands of Lee Sin games. What does he look like then? Garbage. He no longer wins Lv1 duels. He no longer has "guaranteed" Lv2-3 ganks where he can win virtually any counter-gank situation due to raw power. He's no longer going to invade your jungle with impunity. Pretty much every build path available to him is a pile of ass by late game.
He's a cool dude who can do some really sweet plays, and has enough tricks in his bag to level the playing field against champions that are baseline superior... but that's it. Your blazing hot Lee skills get you "back to good", when you could've just picked a better jungler and started out good without any investment in high-level mechanics. The people who've learned him in-and-out can still make him work, but there's no real reason for newer players to actually bother learning him anymore.
But there are counters to that. You can outright ban him. You can block his lantern. His ult is RIDICULOUSLY slow upon cast and anyone smart will see it coming and be able to get out of it. His hook is telegraphed and if you're paying attention it's probably not going to hit you. They nerfed his attack range to make trading as Thresh more dangerous. The problem isn't Thresh being "too strong" or "too OP", the problem is that Riot nerfed the SHIT out of the other supports with S4.
There's also the bug that (for me) causes 1/10 flays to do absolutely nothing. Sometimes more than 1/10.
Mister Negative
Member
I think the thing with Panth's winrate is that he really has to get going. He's one of the most snowbally champs in the game. If he's strong, he's REALLY strong. If he's not, he's near useless. Playing from behind with Panth isn't a fun time.
Stone Ocean
Member
Win rate gets harder to read as pick rate goes up.
If you're being picked 30~40% of the games and you're still winning at least 50% of the time, something's wrong.
Yeah. I still don't completely get the ridiculous nerfing of all the other supports. Especially Sona. I guarantee we'd see a Sona revival if they reverted her nerfs.
No, I don't think so. Compare that to the other popular picks right now:
Leona - 40% pick rate, 52.65% win
Jinx - 28.75% pick rate, 51.78% win
Wukong - 22.31% pick rate, 54.67% win
Vi - 20.55% pick rate, 51.97% win
Sivir - 18.09% pick rate, 53.79% win
Draven - 16.19% pick rate, 53.49% win
More balanced:
Panth - 18.77% pick, 50.07% win
Renekton - 23.18% pick, 49.18% win
Lee Sin - 35.75% pick, 48.25% win
Cait - 37.35% pick, 49.22% win
The numbers really speak to a trend of the stronger FOTM champs compared to the more "balanced" FOTM champs. They may be popular but it's not an auto win by any means. Compare Panth to someone like Wukong with an insane 55% win rate while still being picked 22% of the time.. Wow.
Imperfected
Member
why isnt Draven a
Newt's feelings can take it.
Because while it's a low win rate for Draven, it's not that low, at least in the Sivir meta.
im sorry, but everything you just said was incredibly illogical
Yeah. I still don't completely get the ridiculous nerfing of all the other supports. Especially Sona. I guarantee we'd see a Sona revival if they reverted her nerfs.
No, I don't think so. Compare that to the other popular picks right now:
Leona - 40% pick rate, 52.65% win
Jinx - 28.75% pick rate, 51.78% win
Wukong - 22.31% pick rate, 54.67% win
Vi - 20.55% pick rate, 51.97% win
Sivir - 18.09% pick rate, 53.79% win
Draven - 16.19% pick rate, 53.49% win
More balanced:
Panth - 18.77% pick, 50.07% win
Renekton - 23.18% pick, 49.18% win
Lee Sin - 35.75% pick, 48.25% win
Cait - 37.35% pick, 49.22% win
The numbers really speak to a trend of the stronger FOTM champs compared to the more "balanced" FOTM champs. They may be popular but it's not an auto win by any means. Compare Panth to someone like Wukong with an insane 55% win rate while still being picked 22% of the time.. Wow.
solo queue stats dont reveal everythin
soloqueue games are skewed for longer length cos less orgo means worse closing out which means teamfight champz r better in solo queue eg wukong n sivir
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