PROGRAM_IX
Member
Ooh yeah, Banshee would solve some of my escape troubles with her. What after BT? I went Last Whisper and I think it was a mistake. :/
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League of Legends |OT5| Premade Bot
- Thread starter Dobkeratops
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Ooh yeah, Banshee would solve some of my escape troubles with her. What after BT? I went Last Whisper and I think it was a mistake. :/
I've just been going BT Shiv LW/IE. Just pushpushpush in lane and AFK farm at their tower. Be a bully with the damage she gets with a double Q and AA+reset.
Teamfighting hasn't really been an issue. Just stay at her Q range and kite with her passive+ult.
The gold share with the Emblem is nice. Martyr's Call is a lot better than I originally gave it credit for since the cooldown is short and the damage explosion is actually kind of relevant. Like, on Leona and Taric I got it to ~250 AoE without really going crazy with the build (and then like 400-ish when I did).
Imperfected
Member
It really depends on what the enemy team is working with. There's a lot of poke comps going around right now, so Banshee's Veil has notched up a bit on item value as a result anyway. As soon as the Nidalee frenzy dies down people will probably shift more back toward GA/QSS/Randuin's.
Crab Milk Mickey
Member
Nearly a 1000g for +5 armor and +70 health (previously +50 until they nerfed Giant's Belt) and a crappy passive is the opposite of awesome.
- Every single champion has a better option if meant to increase the rate of one's splitpushing or wave clearing prowess.
- Randuin's exists as an armor item that's actually slot efficient and not a total waste of money (despite the slightly higher cost), if meant for access to the same defensive stats.
- And if it's meant as a source of damage, then whoever bought it is looking at both the item and how a match or teamfight realistically functions all wrong.
CaptainMintMan
Member
for those who got the direct deposit reward from the serve card, how long did it take the RP to apply to your account after receiving the confirmation email?
You buy sunfire for the passive, and it is in no way crappy. It's such a good item for champions like Shen who can functionally push their lanes with it.
So many things in League are popular for reasons unknown...
Wolf Akela
Member
I starting to have a suspicion my ARAM MMR is super high. My queues often take 15-30 mins now, no matter what day/time. I see familiar names more often as well.
This is stupid. I only want to play an unbalanced mode.
This is stupid. I only want to play an unbalanced mode.
I go BT, Zeal and then I have two paths. If their team is tanky --> LW. If their team is squishy ---> Shiv. I prefer to go the Shiv route because she gets super good waveclear with it. I find Triforce is kinda wasted on her because she doesn't really need the movement speed and she scales so well off pure AD.
I got a better idea. Just stack your Q bot lane with Draven and fuck shit up ASAP. Your team will adore you.
Wolf Akela
Member
Just hope the game is still salvageable.
I don't think it exists/works the same way in ARAM.
it will be built into the new bloodrazor
if your mmr is too low you can be demoted out of a div V
still missing some jungler items methinks.
anyway, most of the stuff is on the PBE to see if theyre coded properly tbh. its really hard to see how much trinkets and jungle items and brushes and wards change the game without playing a serious match.
the new icon is too cool for sunfire
they should add an active effect for it. activate it to release a burst of flame or something, leaving a fire mark enemies that adds small bonus damage to allied attacks for 3s or somefin
PROGRAM_IX
Member
I think that pause for Zeal would have helped me a lot. I was two full items in and still had ~.8 AS, and just felt very weak. Granted, the Qs did damage, but my W mechanics were poor so I really felt the low attack speed.
Oh god, never getting Silver back after this season.
Stone Ocean
Member
Who do I have to fuck to get a PAX Sivir skin
PROGRAM_IX
Member
I'd rather be able to play Sivir well than have PAX Sivir. I love it, but it's just such an embarrassment 'cos I bring her out and get rollllled.
Stone Ocean
Member
But if you're gonna get rekt anyways, might as well go out in style.
PROGRAM_IX
Member
Fair point. I doooo look stylin'.
Randuin's is negative stat value just like Sunfire Cape. The discrepancy is less, sure, but it's still overall negative. That said, the only real time I like Sunfire is when I'm super big early with Renekton but, realistically speaking, Hydra lets me push and fight better anyway and Randuin's is a superior tank item for later.
The damage isn't as bad as you're saying, however. It's still the equivalent of Rank 1 Dominus. It certainly falls off in relevancy as the game goes on (or even just reaches Level 11+) but it's honestly a lot better than Randuin's for snowballing vs an AD lane. Just that the sweet spot time of it is like you say: When you're so hilariously ahead that it probably doesn't even matter.
PROGRAM_IX
Member
Imperfected
Member
Didn't actually see any PAX Sivir at the events I attended this year. (She's actually from further back, but they were still giving her out up until PAX Prime 2012 if you could find the right people.) I'm afraid she might be joining PAX Jax in the "eBay Only" column.
Crab Milk Mickey
Member
Negated 40 magic damage with a small AoE radius that doesn't scale with champion size (unless they fixed that by now). In a game where Spirit Visage, Banshee's Veil, Aegis / Locket and to a lesser extent Abyssal Scepter are regularly present. With BoRK's, Hydra's or BT's lifesteal further reducing the effectiveness of what little damage it outputs. On top of melee's only sticking to their targets for a relatively short time especially if they want to fight a late game squishy carry, whatnot with teamfights being nowhere near as dragged out as how they were in Season 2. And just look at the death recap screen each time you die by the hand of someone who bought Sunfire Cape: the damage percentage it inflicted will nearly always be pitifully low, barring a top lane situation that snowballed in less than 10 minutes.
It is terrible no matter which way you slice it. And all it does to help Shen is make him slow at splitpushing upon completion rather than painfully slow, without really enhancing his durability beyond its core components. Never mind that even a wet noodle like him is better off with items like an eventual Statikk Shyv (which synergizes with Triforce if he gets farmed or fed) for wave clearing or teamfight AoE as long as he gets the armor + HP combo elsewhere.
Plus now I'm even seeing supports get it in the pre-season PBE patch. Just... ugh.
Yeah, didn't mean to imply that Randuin's was gold efficient, just that (as you pointed out) the discrepancy is less noticeable than the Cape whilst offering actual utility + late game slot efficiency.
Riot officially removed PAX Sivir from their rotation a few events back, no? Along with Riot Susan if I recall correctly.
Sunfire is one of my favorite items in the game. I think the AOE magic damage it puts out is well worth the price, and I consider it to be a good mix of defensive stats while still being able to put out damage. It's well rounded for many situations, and is useful for both team fights and clearing.
I run heavy magic penetration on lots of champs when it comes to runes/masteries though.
Wolf Akela
Member
Sunfire Cape is a very good item especially as a rush item.
No one rushes a Negatron just for that dude with the Sunfire Cape.
Aegis/Lockets aren't even commonly rushed these days. Who rushes Visage? Warwick maybe? Banshee is a pretty rare pick as well.
Like mentioned, it's a great mix of offense and defense for frontliners. Your other alternatives are Gauntlet (expensive, mana), Abyssal. No idea why you have to evaluate its damage post MR when it's applicable to every other damage source as well.
Sunfire Cape is nearly exactly like Renek's Lv1 ult, and somewhat along Rammus' ult in terms of damage.
No one rushes a Negatron just for that dude with the Sunfire Cape.
Aegis/Lockets aren't even commonly rushed these days. Who rushes Visage? Warwick maybe? Banshee is a pretty rare pick as well.
Like mentioned, it's a great mix of offense and defense for frontliners. Your other alternatives are Gauntlet (expensive, mana), Abyssal. No idea why you have to evaluate its damage post MR when it's applicable to every other damage source as well.
Sunfire Cape is nearly exactly like Renek's Lv1 ult, and somewhat along Rammus' ult in terms of damage.
Stone Ocean
Member
Who doesn't rush Visage? It's pretty much the best MR item in the game even after the nerfs.
Well not against an AD laner, obviously.
Well not against an AD laner, obviously.
im on the pbe as Type2 . please add me for games =]
I'm not a fan of Sunfire myself, but some the champions in my pool have a tough time itemizing for damage (e.g. Naut) so picking up an agnostic damage item like sunfire is one of the few ways to go. I really hope they have another look at damage+defense options this season like Atma's. In the few games I've managed to pull it off, shiv+atmas+defensive items Nautilus was really enjoyable.
Imperfected
Member
They haven't been "officially" giving her away since PAX East 2011, if I remember right, but like PAX Jax the cards they printed for her didn't expire, so some of the higher-up Rioters like Morello and Redbeard kept a stockpile on hand for some time after. I'd imagine they've run out by now, or at least gotten light enough on supply that they're not going to give them out just for the sake of me asking.
These days they don't make "PAX" skins anymore, they make "Arcade" skins and put them up for sale during PAX (but give out free ones at the event), which is a much better arrangement for everyone except streamers who liked to use them for giveaways. The free skin codes also expire pretty fast now.
Wolf Akela
Member
As a core item that you still rush even the enemy AP isn't snowballing? Which champs?
Stone Ocean
Member
I meant in the sense that if you're a bruiser laning against someone that does AP damage or a jungler Vs a double AP comp, why wouldn't you rush Visage?
Crab Milk Mickey
Member
In theory it sounds like Sunfire Cape would fill a good niche. An item for a beefy (but otherwise low dps) champion that otherwise lacks a constant source of damage? Sure, sounds like a plan.
However, in actuality the gains and the AoE radius on it are so low, it's right up there with old Tiamat in terms of overall inadequacy (ignoring that old Tiamat had good gold efficiency). It's still stuck in its old Season 1 design when they allowed players to stack it, and other similarly outdated items have either been removed or refined to up their potency by today's standards. Hydra's being very beneficial for the likes of Renekton / Lee Sin and so forth, Liandry's being tailor-made for junglers like Amumu / Sejuani and even Statikk Shyv being a more reliable source of increased damage / pushing power on a select few bruisers further expose the need for Riot to take another look at it. Maybe give it a late game upgrade path whilst simultaneously making it more manageable early on for the losing laner, or an active hook similar to the one Boken imagined so that its overall damage output is more 'controlled' and has more reactionary play involved.
Then again, the high frequency of disengages / mobility also plays a huge part in it feeling lackluster.
Outright rushing Spirit Visage beyond a core component? Few, and that's match-up dependant anyways.
Who ends up buying it? Warwick, Yorick, Vladimir, Renekton, Susan, Trundle, Irelia, Jax, ... Pretty much any bruiser champion that's half-competent at brawling or self-sustaining. It's the high-end MR item right now, as others here have also mentioned. Banshee's is on the situational side (Abyssal too) admittedly, but it's noticeably better after they revised it with the introduction of Spectre's Cowl.
Aegis / Locket is still bought virtually all the time, be it by the tanky melee jungler or the support. Not sure why you feel it's not common at this point in time.
On paper it sounds like a good item, but you can't tell me with a straight face that +5 armor and +70 health for a whopping 950 gold is a good defensive boost (and I already ranted about its offensive shortcomings). Finally, the idea behind evaluating its damage post-MR is simple: unlike other damage-oriented items or skills like Renekton's or Rammus' ult (which have a bigger radius by default), Sunfire's passive doesn't scale positively.
Ultimately, the point is "don't get Sunfire for the late game." It's effective early and then tapers off as even moderate MR means it's cut down to 16-20 damage per second. Like, it doesn't scale at all and as you approach full build, the ~560 gold deficit on it is actually kind of notable.
The active route is a neat idea but, honestly, it should probably just scale slightly (with player level?) to keep up with the game.
The active route is a neat idea but, honestly, it should probably just scale slightly (with player level?) to keep up with the game.
liandry's and hydra are offensive options. sunfire is a defensive item, and it does what it needs to do well by providing a good mix of defensive stats with an offensive bonus. if the enemy team has lots of ad (very common) then it's potentially a very strong pick up.
liandry's is junk on everyone though. especially terrible early/mid game. sunfire pick up means strong wave/jungle clear and good defensive stats. all there really is to it.
liandry's is junk on everyone though. especially terrible early/mid game. sunfire pick up means strong wave/jungle clear and good defensive stats. all there really is to it.
Elise and Eve would be better off just building Rylai's or Seeker's.
Crab Milk Mickey
Member
Liandry's is still strong. Not "buy this on every single champion who even does the slightest of AP damage" back when it was released alongside Season 3, but still quite good on a decent number of champions.
And if the enemy consists entirely out of AD, an eventual Atmas (as situational as it is) or eventual Thornmail (which for once isn't half-bad currently) would compliment most champions better after a Giant's Belt.
Wasteful on Elise, be it as a laner or a jungler. Early to mid game she's all about safely bullying melee's in lane, whereas during a skirmish or roaming she wants to catch someone and lower their health as much as possible within the timeframe of a well-aimed stun. She innately has some issues transitioning into late game, so that item would do nothing to help smooth it out.
PhillipCostigan
Member
Atmas, really?
come on
come on
Crab Milk Mickey
Member
It's mediocre at best and very situational. Didn't say it was good.
"Mediocre, narrowly-defined item" over "terrible item with marginal gains and no scaling" sounds like an improvement for a very conditional situation (i.e. the aforementioned all-AD team) to me. And that's when pretending every other armor item in the game didn't exist in the quest to squeeze as much bang-for-buck out of your options as possible.
PhillipCostigan
Member
I feel like if you would buy an Atma's over a Sunfire in any situation this conversation is over
Stone Ocean
Member
Sunfire Eve is really good, but that's basically a last resort build path when your team is getting wrecked and you need AR. You should always want to get a Zhonya's instead of it.
PhillipCostigan
Member
so your solution is to buy an item that's already gold inefficient without taking into consideration the useless crit chance stat over a sunfire.
righto.
SenorArdilla
Member
I'm learning so much right now.
That's one new way, not multiple ones, and what's the source for it? Are there forum posts or announcements I missed?
u buy sunfire because it's components are good, cuz it's a relatively quick buy for making you win lane (pooshing/dueling, usually built on ppl w/ built in sustain that also pushes lane like gator golf or dedly ninja, gives you stats that prevent you form being all-in'd very easily like if u got offensive stats instead)
like i dunno for the champs it's built on in the context of the tank heavy top meta sunfire makes a lot of sense
like i dunno for the champs it's built on in the context of the tank heavy top meta sunfire makes a lot of sense
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