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League of Legends |OT6| My AP Mid Can't Be This Cute
- Thread starter Dobkeratops
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stupid as hell for adcWell, to be fair, Leona is a stupid as hell champion.
means supports should love her
therefore dimb not real support
i kinda agree with the leona thing (stop it newt thresh is awesome T_T) but i can't be too mad at her since she was the first champ i played
shortly after i moved on to malph since i was planning on being a bit more gender diverse with lol but in the end my habits got the best of me
i also played a lot of graves back then
silly me
shortly after i moved on to malph since i was planning on being a bit more gender diverse with lol but in the end my habits got the best of me
i also played a lot of graves back then
silly me
I like fun supports like Nami and Lulu. Not Leona.
Imperfected
Member
how do i know when i'm diamond in aram?
If your ARAM MMR starts to get high you'll have a lot more people dodging queues because they didn't get a champion they like (welcome to "tryhard" tier), and then after that the queue time itself just goes stratospheric.
The only solution is to throw back down to the sweet spot. Just don't throw too far or you'll end up with the griefers.
Orochinagis
Member
Well, to be fair, Leona is a stupid as hell champion.
Why =(
She's an incredibly easy and dull support to use. There's really nothing wrong with that, but her problem is that she's a strong pick and champions designed like her should be weak/average picks.Why =(
Garen is an example of riot designing that kind of champion correctly.
Ryze is another example of riot messing up.
i think rito said already they were nerfing her mid in another reddit thingie?
boko you're my personal reddit stalker, you tell 'em
as long as i can play it for the remainder of this patch i will be happy
She's an incredibly easy and dull support to use. There's really nothing wrong with that, but her problem is that she's a strong pick and champions designed like her should be weak/average picks.
Garen is an example of riot designing that kind of champion correctly.
Ryze is another example of riot messing up.
Hasn't riot pretty much gone on the record that skill cap of a champion doesn't determine how strong it should be?
Considering the changes to Corki's q, I doubt that's the case.Hasn't riot pretty much gone on the record that skill cap of a champion doesn't determine how strong it should be?
Not even just the Corki q, just look at some of the big champion changes. Kha'zix's E is another good example.
She's an incredibly easy and dull support to use. There's really nothing wrong with that, but her problem is that she's a strong pick and champions designed like her should be weak/average picks.
Garen is an example of riot designing that kind of champion correctly.
Ryze is another example of riot messing up.
dude you have a draven avatar cmon now
Hasn't riot pretty much gone on the record that skill cap of a champion doesn't determine how strong it should be?
As it should be. I can't wrap my head around people who complain that X champion shouldn't be nerfed because they're more intricate.
zkylon said:http://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflege...be_spoke_with/
guy from reddit says next champ will be a support with no real evidence (so i dunno why i'm linking it)
would be cool, i love support, but i would kind of rather rito just reworked sona and co.
like i feel top lane could use a shaking up a lot more than support
I might be imagining things but there were some hints dropped mid-2013ish that a support would be out by the end of that year. Come Fall that got pushed back along with lots of other champion related stuff due to S4 changes. So, a support coming up isn't out of the question. Looking forward to it if true, I can always use another support.
Jungler next please. It's been too long.
i think leona was fine in s3, it's more like s4 really broke her as far as depth goes
like she used to have counterplay because she was almost as squishy as sona when her w was down
now she can buy like a randuins every game, get 20% cdr easy early on (so lots of w's!) and keep a lot closer in levels to the rest of the team
a lot of her risk is gone so she's really brainless to play right now
personally i think they should raise the cd on her ult by quite a bit so she has at least some kind of a downtime. probably w too.
dodging zenith blade and getting ulted in the head anyways is super frustrating
like she used to have counterplay because she was almost as squishy as sona when her w was down
now she can buy like a randuins every game, get 20% cdr easy early on (so lots of w's!) and keep a lot closer in levels to the rest of the team
a lot of her risk is gone so she's really brainless to play right now
personally i think they should raise the cd on her ult by quite a bit so she has at least some kind of a downtime. probably w too.
dodging zenith blade and getting ulted in the head anyways is super frustrating
speaking of turn speed, is it just me or there's like a giant bug going around of champions actually getting turn speed mid-game?-faster gameplay due to - direct control (no turn speed, long attack points/cast points) and lots of spells that require dodging/aiming
like i know it's been a known bug on syndra but i noticed it the other day on sona too, so i'm starting to get scared
i think maybe also ahri?
she thought, "i can just tornado the zenith blade".i think they should just reduce the range of something.
z blade is 875 and her ult is 1200, them are big numbers for melee tanky engager.
shes not that huge in the proscene tho so idk what we're all doing wrong
maybe stop picking janna into leona 4 one
Imperfected
Member
As it should be. I can't wrap my head around people who complain that X champion shouldn't be nerfed because they're more intricate.
Not necessarily "intricacy", but it stands to reason that a champion who is capable of failing to hit with most/all of their damage (Gragas) should outdamage a champion who can't miss with any of their damage (Ryze) in the circumstance that they successfully land all of their skills. (All else being equal, obviously.)
Otherwise there's no reason to ever take anything but the "safe" champions, right?
There are mitigating factors to this; rather than trading safety for damage, sometimes (often) you trade it for range, for example. Sometimes rather than gaining more single-target damage for the loss of safety, you gain more multi-target damage only. Sometimes you gain access to superior CC/debuffs in place of damage.
You always should be getting something for taking the riskier champion, though, and it should generally be proportionate to how big the risk you're taking is. (ie, while Annie is technically a riskier champion than Ryze, it's not by very much - you have to be a pretty spazzy Annie to miss your instant-speed AoEs - whereas Syndra is way, way higher risk.)
I just died a little.dude you have a draven avatar cmon now
Imperfected
Member
Maybe they'll give him like a set of those goofy luchadore "wings" that are just feathers under his arms.
I just died a little.
it practically catches your axes for you, just right click them to win.. play a real adc pls
i think nerfing her ranges would probably kill her (you can argue if that's a good thing then but u know...)i think they should just reduce the range of something.
z blade is 875 and her ult is 1200, them are big numbers for melee tanky engager.
shes not that huge in the proscene tho so idk what we're all doing wrong
maybe stop picking janna into leona 4 one
imo she's too overwhelming cos she can always engage on you non-stop. engage supports should have like windows of opportunity for you to exploit and her access to cd and tankiness have really narrowed her downtimes so she's basically going on you 24/7 the moment she hits 6
or so i feel
i think the problem with ryze is that at one point there's just no beating him. like jinx or karthus or like cassiopeia or ori or anivia, you can kill those high scaling champions if you just catch them off guard.Not necessarily "intricacy", but it stands to reason that a champion who is capable of failing to hit with most/all of their damage (Gragas) should outdamage a champion who can't miss with any of their damage (Ryze) in the circumstance that they successfully land all of their skills. (All else being equal, obviously.)
Otherwise there's no reason to ever take anything but the "safe" champions, right?
There are mitigating factors to this; rather than trading safety for damage, sometimes (often) you trade it for range, for example. Sometimes rather than gaining more single-target damage for the loss of safety, you gain more multi-target damage only. Sometimes you gain access to superior CC/debuffs in place of damage.
You always should be getting something for taking the riskier champion, though, and it should generally be proportionate to how big the risk you're taking is. (ie, while Annie is technically a riskier champion than Ryze, it's not by very much - you have to be a pretty spazzy Annie to miss your instant-speed AoEs - whereas Syndra is way, way higher risk.)
ryze and vayne to a degree (less so nowadays) are pretty fucking unkillable late game, and i think people have overexaggerated their weaknesses
a leona with a 1100 range ult isnt dedi think nerfing her ranges would probably kill her (you can argue if that's a good thing then but u know...)
imo she's too overwhelming cos she can always engage on you non-stop. engage supports should have like windows of opportunity for you to exploit and her access to cd and tankiness have really narrowed her downtimes so she's basically going on you 24/7 the moment she hits 6
or so i feel
i think the problem with ryze is that at one point there's just no beating him. like jinx or karthus or like cassiopeia or ori or anivia, you can kill those high scaling champions if you just catch them off guard.
ryze and vayne to a degree (less so nowadays) are pretty fucking unkillable late game, and i think people have overexaggerated their weaknesses
we just need clear safety zones while facing a leona to give ppl more space
and ryze is kept down in competitive by the fact that the enemy can just 2v1 him
maybe solo queue should learn to be more adaptable
we've had 2v1 lanes for ~2 years now and we still run the same 1-1-2 stuff in soloq
Imperfected
Member
Well, yes. Ryze is multiple problems - safety, hyper-scaling, and non-traditional scaling that allows an overly tanky build - all on one champion. Annie's probably a better example: her range and level of safety are very similar to Ryze, but she has to build in a more traditional manner and doesn't hyper-carry.
Like, generally I think most champions do it right. It's incredibly easy to land all your damage on Annie, but in exchange you have zero mobility, limited range, and your top-end damage is lower than some riskier champions. As a result, despite being an incredibly consistent and fairly powerful AP carry, Annie doesn't get a ton of play in the mid lane; most people prefer more mobile champions, champions with a higher cap on their burst, or champions with better range on their primary abilities.
The place where the system breaks down seems to be when you have a champion that combines a lot of "dumbfire" abilities with a generally high mechanical skill-cap (LeBlanc) which creates this awkward situation where you're trying to balance the champion both around being hard to use and yet having an enormous amount of can't-miss burst.
Like, generally I think most champions do it right. It's incredibly easy to land all your damage on Annie, but in exchange you have zero mobility, limited range, and your top-end damage is lower than some riskier champions. As a result, despite being an incredibly consistent and fairly powerful AP carry, Annie doesn't get a ton of play in the mid lane; most people prefer more mobile champions, champions with a higher cap on their burst, or champions with better range on their primary abilities.
The place where the system breaks down seems to be when you have a champion that combines a lot of "dumbfire" abilities with a generally high mechanical skill-cap (LeBlanc) which creates this awkward situation where you're trying to balance the champion both around being hard to use and yet having an enormous amount of can't-miss burst.
well 100 less range on ult wouldn't be so bad but again i dunno how much of an effect would that even have.a leona with a 1100 range ult isnt ded
we just need clear safety zones while facing a leona to give ppl more space
and ryze is kept down in competitive by the fact that the enemy can just 2v1 him
maybe solo queue should learn to be more adaptable
we've had 2v1 lanes for ~2 years now and we still run the same 1-1-2 stuff in soloq
and i dunno about ryze dude, he got like a 60 hp buff and 25 more range in his q and suddenly he's everywhere again
and he's getting 3v1'd (or 4v0'd), denied minions on turret and pushed to base and he still manages to ramp up
ticking bomb champions are just dumb and shouldn't exist. fuck ryze
yea lebonk is way too safe for what she's able to do.Well, yes. Ryze is multiple problems - safety, hyper-scaling, and non-traditional scaling that allows an overly tanky build - all on one champion. Annie's probably a better example: her range and level of safety are very similar to Ryze, but she has to build in a more traditional manner and doesn't hyper-carry.
Like, generally I think most champions do it right. It's incredibly easy to land all your damage on Annie, but in exchange you have zero mobility, limited range, and your top-end damage is lower than some riskier champions. As a result, despite being an incredibly consistent and fairly powerful AP carry, Annie doesn't get a ton of play in the mid lane; most people prefer more mobile champions, champions with a higher cap on their burst, or champions with better range on their primary abilities.
The place where the system breaks down seems to be when you have a champion that combines a lot of "dumbfire" abilities with a generally high mechanical skill-cap (LeBlanc) which creates this awkward situation where you're trying to balance the champion both around being hard to use and yet having an enormous amount of can't-miss burst.
i kinda wish she had her passive as like a regular spell instead of her q or something
sorry but ticking time bomb champs already exist in the form of carries
6 item carries just shit on everything
sry that we can have other ways of designing 6 item carries
on a variety front, ticking time bomb champs have to exist because a team should be allowed to pick a ticking time bomb strategy
the only issue is for how long should ticking time bomb teams be for
btw, yes theyre 3(4)v1ing the lane - but thats because the 2v1 bot lane can push harder - so its in their best interest. and the 2v1 top lane must respond in kind or be super behind. a 2v1 itself will still shit on ryze
leblonk has a super average late game
6 item carries just shit on everything
sry that we can have other ways of designing 6 item carries
on a variety front, ticking time bomb champs have to exist because a team should be allowed to pick a ticking time bomb strategy
the only issue is for how long should ticking time bomb teams be for
btw, yes theyre 3(4)v1ing the lane - but thats because the 2v1 bot lane can push harder - so its in their best interest. and the 2v1 top lane must respond in kind or be super behind. a 2v1 itself will still shit on ryze
leblonk has a super average late game
Imperfected
Member
Interestingly, LeBlanc actually got better when they trimmed down her "safe" burst somewhat. The change to her ultimate (along with some ratio changes on her other spells) removed DFG -> Q -> Mimic Q as her preferred combo and added way more incentive to use Distortion for damage (and even max it first) along with chain-fishing to open her combo.
Basically they removed some of her safety and gave her some wave-clear and top-end burst in the trade, and she came roaring into the meta. I'd still say overall they were good changes and LeBlanc in her current state is better for the game than her old state, even if "old" LeBlanc was a super niche pick and new LeBlanc has been stirring up problems in the mid meta.
Basically they removed some of her safety and gave her some wave-clear and top-end burst in the trade, and she came roaring into the meta. I'd still say overall they were good changes and LeBlanc in her current state is better for the game than her old state, even if "old" LeBlanc was a super niche pick and new LeBlanc has been stirring up problems in the mid meta.
Not necessarily "intricacy", but it stands to reason that a champion who is capable of failing to hit with most/all of their damage (Gragas) should outdamage a champion who can't miss with any of their damage (Ryze) in the circumstance that they successfully land all of their skills. (All else being equal, obviously.)
Otherwise there's no reason to ever take anything but the "safe" champions, right?
There are mitigating factors to this; rather than trading safety for damage, sometimes (often) you trade it for range, for example. Sometimes rather than gaining more single-target damage for the loss of safety, you gain more multi-target damage only. Sometimes you gain access to superior CC/debuffs in place of damage.
You always should be getting something for taking the riskier champion, though, and it should generally be proportionate to how big the risk you're taking is. (ie, while Annie is technically a riskier champion than Ryze, it's not by very much - you have to be a pretty spazzy Annie to miss your instant-speed AoEs - whereas Syndra is way, way higher risk.)
It's uncanny how little you and I agree with about this game. I'd write a longer reply, but I'm on my phone.
boken said:warwick is getting phoenix's icarus dive (without the cancelling)
basically a movement spell that makes you move in an arc and returns you to where you started.
kinda strange they put it on WW tho.
Where are you seeing this?
Imperfected
Member
It's uncanny how little you and I agree with about this game. I'd write a longer reply, but I'm on my phone.
Hey, on your own time. I'm legitimately curious to hear you make a case for why a zero-risk champion should be flat-out better than a risky champion. I can't even come up with a joke case, so at the very least it should be something I've never heard before.
Interestingly, LeBlanc actually got better when they trimmed down her "safe" burst somewhat. The change to her ultimate (along with some ratio changes on her other spells) removed DFG -> Q -> Mimic Q as her preferred combo and added way more incentive to use Distortion for damage (and even max it first) along with chain-fishing to open her combo.
Basically they removed some of her safety and gave her some wave-clear and top-end burst in the trade, and she came roaring into the meta. I'd still say overall they were good changes and LeBlanc in her current state is better for the game than her old state, even if "old" LeBlanc was a super niche pick and new LeBlanc has been stirring up problems in the mid meta.
untrue
old leblanc was gaining popularity in korea as an early game god (short games back then too) to snowball victories
after her change, everybody was eh on her and stopped playing her.
it wasnt until the great assassin purge of s4 that leblanc came roaring into the fore as one of the few assassins to be unscathed.
they did give her more wave clear though, but i see that most of her problems stems from mid laners being unable to dodge her E properly (protip, move perpendicular to her when she distortions). shes very good at punishing stragglers which is fine for an assassin
late game she falls off because (banshees thank god) + her ability to do damage is really dependant on her ability to land her W on top of her target and its nearly impossible to outflank a team so hard that you can just W on top of their carries
untrue!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmW_r3XK2HA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmW_r3XK2HA
Wolf Akela
Member
Hey, on your own time. I'm legitimately curious to hear you make a case for why a zero-risk champion should be flat-out better than a risky champion. I can't even come up with a joke case, so at the very least it should be something I've never heard before.
Speaking from a high level point of view/area of thought, in a hypothetical ideal situation where all other things are equal, a perfectly played "simple" champion vs. a perfectly played "complex" champion should be a draw. The reward for playing a complex champion shouldn't be raw power, but variety of roles, game decisions, better fallback play patterns, etc.
So, you sort of put words into my mouth about how a simple champion should be better.
Imperfected
Member
Speaking from a high level point of view/area of thought, in a hypothetical ideal situation where all other things are equal, a perfectly played "simple" champion vs. a perfectly played "complex" champion should be a draw. The reward for playing a complex champion shouldn't be raw power, but variety of roles, game decisions, better fallback play patterns, etc.
So, you sort of put words into my mouth about how a simple champion should be better.
... I guess, if you mean I put the words you're saying right now in your mouth?
I said in my post that you usually get other things - especially range - in exchange for giving up the security of can't-miss abilities. I know my posts run a bit long, but maybe actually read them to see if you aren't actually agreeing with me rather than jumping straight to being contrary?
(This is a stealth post directed at Boken.)
Dimitri LH
Member
Just came here to say....that OP comic is amazing x'D
Imperfected
Member
You guys are over-thinking this. Let's break it down simple:
Give Ryze's skills similar range to most skillshots, without changing anything else. Does this completely break the game? Ryze pays for the fact his skills can't miss with things like short range and a lack of utility (shields/heals/buffs). This is already the way the game is balanced. I don't know what to tell you if you don't like it; play other games?
The balance trade-off of skillshot versus on-click is very real. You can't turn Dark Binding into an on-click without nerfing something else about it, because it would break the game. You can't make Summon: Tibbers or Shockwave automatically hit all enemies champions (like Requiem) without breaking the game. There always has to be a trade-off for an ability being an on-click, and there always is, it's just how the game works.
I'm seriously perplexed we even have to have this conversation.
Give Ryze's skills similar range to most skillshots, without changing anything else. Does this completely break the game? Ryze pays for the fact his skills can't miss with things like short range and a lack of utility (shields/heals/buffs). This is already the way the game is balanced. I don't know what to tell you if you don't like it; play other games?
The balance trade-off of skillshot versus on-click is very real. You can't turn Dark Binding into an on-click without nerfing something else about it, because it would break the game. You can't make Summon: Tibbers or Shockwave automatically hit all enemies champions (like Requiem) without breaking the game. There always has to be a trade-off for an ability being an on-click, and there always is, it's just how the game works.
I'm seriously perplexed we even have to have this conversation.
but you said ryze is opYou guys are over-thinking this. Let's break it down simple:
Give Ryze's skills similar range to most skillshots, without changing anything else. Does this completely break the game? Ryze pays for the fact his skills can't miss with things like short range and a lack of utility (shields/heals/buffs). This is already the way the game is balanced. I don't know what to tell you if you don't like it; play other games?
The balance trade-off of skillshot versus on-click is very real. You can't turn Dark Binding into an on-click without nerfing something else about it, because it would break the game. You can't make Summon: Tibbers or Shockwave automatically hit all enemies champions (like Requiem) without breaking the game. There always has to be a trade-off for an ability being an on-click, and there always is, it's just how the game works.
I'm seriously perplexed we even have to have this conversation.
ur the one who is overthinking it
I'm seriously perplexed we even have to have this conversation.
this is where you went from a little bit condescending in tone to full on sounding like an asshole btw
Imperfected
Member
but you said ryze is op
ur the one who is overthinking it
I also said Ryze's problems are complicated, because they stem from not only the fact he has on-click abilities, but also because he has hyper-scaling, and his scaling is non-traditional and allows him to build unusually tanky compared to most other hyper-carries.
Ryze is relatively complicated problem compared to a much simpler problem like, "Hey guys maybe Terrify shouldn't be 1,000 range because that would suck."
The solution is to make Ryze powerful enough to get banned.
It's time for you and I to make children.
The solution is to make Ryze powerful enough to get banned.
What are people's most common bans these days? I feel like i've seen more varied bans recently than in a long time - eve, yasuo, vi, khazix, master yi, leblanc, nasus seem like some of the most common ones but none of them are picked/banned every game. And i've definitely seen ryze get banned a couple times too.
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