Terbinator
Member
I've got AssSpeed quints and HP quints already. HP/5 Seals it is then, I guess - these can even go with my HP/5 quints :>
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League of Legends |OT6| My AP Mid Can't Be This Cute
- Thread starter Dobkeratops
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do you have flat cdr blues? i think they're great on zyra. makes up for the W nerf, anyway.
Well I'll stay in disagreement. The cost increase is understandable but I don't like the stack increase. They've created a jungler item that brings back some of the junglers that the spirit stone line didn't work too well with. However, they've turned it into this late game stacking item that practically requires them to stay in the jungle farming until 20+min then come out a late game monster. By increasing the stacks they just made it so that jungler stays even longer in the jungle but still comes out strong. It's frustrating for their team, it's frustrating for the opponents if the game goes that long, and it still leaves most bans for junglers. It was better at 25 stacks so you would still be able to balance the farming and ganking or at least get the farming out of the way quick. But it scaled up way too hard.
With how great the spirit line is, I expected something a little more balanced out of wriggles. I guess I was hoping for too much
Also, Rengar used to be great in the jungle. He's had a long and rocky road though.
BriseFlots
Member
How cruel :5 I'm out of home all wek-end...
Well I'll stay in disagreement. The cost increase is understandable but I don't like the stack increase. They've created a jungler item that brings back some of the junglers that the spirit stone line didn't work too well with. However, they've turned it into this late game stacking item that practically requires them to stay in the jungle farming until 20+min then come out a late game monster. By increasing the stacks they just made it so that jungler stays even longer in the jungle but still comes out strong. It's frustrating for their team, it's frustrating for the opponents if the game goes that long, and it still leaves most bans for junglers. It was better at 25 stacks so you would still be able to balance the farming and ganking or at least get the farming out of the way quick. But it scaled up way too hard.
With how great the spirit line is, I expected something a little more balanced out of wriggles. I guess I was hoping for too much
Also, Rengar used to be great in the jungle. He's had a long and rocky road though.
i still they should've just done spirit of potato wolf and make an as spirit stone item
Hmm. The rune page sale might finish me off. I have 16 now. I'll definitely get 2 more. Do I go all the way to 20? I thought I'd never use 16 let alone 20 but I've found uses.
Stone Ocean
Member
The current problem is that well, they don't have to stay 20 minutes in their jungle. None of the strong Flare junglers sans Yi do that, actually. They powerfarm until 6 and then do big stuff with their ults, taking objectives and then just going back to farm. Nocturne pretty much never has to leave his jungle, he can just sit there and show up when his ult is up, same for Warwick. Xin can simply gank you and Yi will just scale ultra hard.
The only way 25 stacks Flare could be balanced is if Riot somehow made it so that you could not afford to gank at all if you wanted that thing. 30 stacks slows it back a bit so laners have time to farm and be able to handle that shit instead of just getting blown up.
I get what you guys are saying. I suspect I'm just opposed to a stacking item in general. I don't think it promotes healthy jungle play.
I thought the spirit line provided a great balance. Gold generation from conservation was balanced with time to do things on the map other than farm. It provided some general sustain, allowing for a different mix of junglers, and it had some nice secondary effects that weren't game breaking. The wriggles is just weird. Might as well put Nasus back in the jungle and have double stacking. Come out at 40min and one shot anyone.
Stone Ocean
Member
I don't even care about the balance on that thing, I just don't want to see my junglers feeling like they can be useless lumps of meat for most of the game and gamble everything on the possibility that they might be able to solo Baron at 15 minutes.
This isn't fucking Co-op Vs Ai. I don't want this shit to be viable period and fuck the viability of junglers that need it.
This isn't fucking Co-op Vs Ai. I don't want this shit to be viable period and fuck the viability of junglers that need it.
Nope. Khazix still very strong against the feral flame junglers. Vi is disappearing quick though.
Now it's all Yi, Xin and Nocturne though
I haven't even been able to play a Yi game since day 1 of feral flame. He's perma banned.
Stone Ocean
Member
Vi disappeared long before Flare. That's all Morgana.
I wish Solo Q would just forget about her already so I can play her again.
I wish Solo Q would just forget about her already so I can play her again.
yea it's less of i miss lee sin (i don't) but more of i'm tired of feral flare junglers already
and yea like i said some days ago i don't like the item at all on idea, i like different roles to have different strengths and weaknesses and responsibilities and power spikes and all that.
i feel feral flare feels a niche the game didn't need
and yea like i said some days ago i don't like the item at all on idea, i like different roles to have different strengths and weaknesses and responsibilities and power spikes and all that.
i feel feral flare feels a niche the game didn't need
Terbinator
Member
I wish I could play Lee.
Stone Ocean
Member
Most Lee players feel the same
Yep, on top of that, as per Stonewall008's evaluation, Vi is a one trick pony who does her trick extremely well (bursting down a squishy). She's so good at that trick that people mistook her as someone you can pick into any comp. That's flatly untrue. You need a second diver or a proper initiator, laners with CC help her out too.
I thought that kit was solid. Instead people bitched and Riot gave him a straight nerf.
http://community.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/live-gameplay/POLbQ0Nl-47-patch-forecast
Some interesting stuff in there.
Nerfs for Kha'zix coming again. Sigh. My favorite bug, always on the receiving end of the nerfs. (I will admit his evolved ult is pretty crazy though)
more Feral flare tweaks coming to promote more teamplay.
I don't like that they are talking about backing down the jungle gold and xp gain again. sigh. Jungle was finally fun. Hopefully they don't overdo it.
Some interesting stuff in there.
Nerfs for Kha'zix coming again. Sigh. My favorite bug, always on the receiving end of the nerfs. (I will admit his evolved ult is pretty crazy though)
more Feral flare tweaks coming to promote more teamplay.
I don't like that they are talking about backing down the jungle gold and xp gain again. sigh. Jungle was finally fun. Hopefully they don't overdo it.
Take a look at lolking win and ban rates. Out of all the champions that have ~double digit ban rates, half are junglers, that's not even counting Jax or Shyvana since I assume they're still being banned as top laners. The story doesn't change much when you look at win rates. Jungler is the most dominating role in the game. It's also the safest. That's not healthy for the game.
Stone Ocean said:
Exactly. If fucking jungle Teemo sits in his jungle all day long the problem isn't that Feral Flare encourages PvE play, it's that the player is a fucking idiot.
/shrug
Then it will go back to midlanes being the overwhelming dominate role again.
Looking at the top 10 winrates, this may be the most diverse it's ever been.
4 junglers
1 adc
2 supports
3 midlanes
Going down another 5 you see:
1 support
2 adc
1 toplane
All that said, 2 of the junglers in that top 10? warwick and amumu......
all the super high pick/winrate junglers are feral users though. if xp/gold wasn't a problem that needed fixing in the kha/wu/panth era, why is it the problem now?
There certainly is a problem with the jungle right now, but i don't think its a problem that requires a fix that will affect every jungler in the game. What did Sejuani and nautilus do to get less xp and gold in the jungle?
warwick's pick rate tripled with feral flare and his winrate has been solid.
xin zhao's pick rate has quadrupled.
Master Yi's pickrate quintupled.
i know its nice to see auto attack junglers again, but clearly they are behind this swing towards jungle dominance.
Stone Ocean
Member
I don't want to beat a dead horse but I really wish we'd stop using winrates as data without any other stat to compare them to.
What matters is that junglers are pretty much the most contested picks in the game overall. Sure bot will go "I get lucian NO I GET LUCIAN fuck it no one gets lucian" most of the time, but that's one case.
What matters is that junglers are pretty much the most contested picks in the game overall. Sure bot will go "I get lucian NO I GET LUCIAN fuck it no one gets lucian" most of the time, but that's one case.
Feral flare is a mess. It's way too strong on some champs. At the same time, the "stacks" mechanic promotes solo play and power farming. Now that they added 5 more stacks, it's even worse. If you don't have the good fortune of winning laners, the game can end before you even finish unlocking it. They should have just nerfed the numbers on it.
when we no longer need to ban junglers people are going to notice that thresh/leona/lucian/cait/morg are the most popular picks in the game.
you're next, bot lane.
and the zyras will dance upon your graves.
I got to what I think is the fourth series in a row last night and quit. Hopefully it will actually stick if I get through, and won't be followed by an immediate 3 game loss streak for demotion. =P
I'm really bad though! I wouldn't be surprised if my hidden matchmaking rating is like silver 5 or bronze 1.
Stone Ocean
Member
All I'm saying is I hope they don't go overboard on "balancing" the gold and xp gain of the jungle. It's the most fun it's ever been. I don't want a return to the "only support jungler" meta. I like that supports and junglers can do more than just be vision/initiation/tank bots. It makes the game more interesting.
I've been playing more adc and midlane lately and I think it's just people forgot about vision. They rely on the trinkets too much and get ganked all the time. That makes the jungle much more scary when they have a little damage behind them. I watch gold midlaners just not buy wards and then bitch that they are getting camped.
The only thing I don't like about the current state of the game is how long games go. They've done a good job reducing snowballing but it's to the point that without a completely crushing of the first 20 min, the games are going to end in a stalemate and go long.
I've been playing more adc and midlane lately and I think it's just people forgot about vision. They rely on the trinkets too much and get ganked all the time. That makes the jungle much more scary when they have a little damage behind them. I watch gold midlaners just not buy wards and then bitch that they are getting camped.
The only thing I don't like about the current state of the game is how long games go. They've done a good job reducing snowballing but it's to the point that without a completely crushing of the first 20 min, the games are going to end in a stalemate and go long.
warwick is a feral jungler though.
they shouldnt touch gold/xp at all.
touch feral. hell, remove feral and give its stats [with no stacking] to wriggles at a higher price.
Terbinator
Member
The
and
picks in the relegation game.
Draven
Janna
I like your thinking.
Wolf Akela
Member
So I tried Feral Teemo. Idea was to AFK farm, while letting my shrooms do the map presence.
Squishy on first clear but it went okay once I got Madred. I had 3000g I didn't spend.
Squishy on first clear but it went okay once I got Madred. I had 3000g I didn't spend.
I miss the days when item choices were simpler, because everyone would just get the items.
I seem to recall there used to be duo lanes with one of those gold items (or maybe just everyone in ARAM using it).
Or everyone with warmogs. Why not! More warmogs.
Or my personal favorite, league of non-unique black cleavers. MORE CLEAVERS!
I seem to recall there used to be duo lanes with one of those gold items (or maybe just everyone in ARAM using it).
Or everyone with warmogs. Why not! More warmogs.
Or my personal favorite, league of non-unique black cleavers. MORE CLEAVERS!
It might take a little while for those to have an impact in a match. For someone like Ziggs, you're pretty mana starved early until you can start getting the blue buff and a Chalice of Harmony. The CDR could be real strong in the late game when you're spamming his Q and E in sieges, I guess, but I'd rather hit harder. It could be different for other champs, but for Ziggs, I'd rather maximize power.
Terbinator
Member
Aside from Fizz, don't you build CDR items on those anyway?
Lucian and Master Yi botlane, premades pls.
Struggled a bit as Renek vs. Super Galaxy Rumble. I fell behind early because I leashed blue and took a few hits for Fiddle. Rumble's waveclear with his fire & rockets combo kept me at bay, making farming hard. Thankfully, he kept over pushing and my jungler Fiddle was an awesome guy, so I got three ganks to the tune of three kills. Unfortunately, botlane fed 12 kills to the enemy Jinx, who carried the game.
Any advice on how I could have done better?
Struggled a bit as Renek vs. Super Galaxy Rumble. I fell behind early because I leashed blue and took a few hits for Fiddle. Rumble's waveclear with his fire & rockets combo kept me at bay, making farming hard. Thankfully, he kept over pushing and my jungler Fiddle was an awesome guy, so I got three ganks to the tune of three kills. Unfortunately, botlane fed 12 kills to the enemy Jinx, who carried the game.
Any advice on how I could have done better?
Don't play Rene, but I'm pretty sure you could of went HAM on him early. Wait for him to use his flame to clear minions, then punish him for it.
Renekton has been one of the super crazy dominating top laning champions for a while, so hopefully this is just payback that someone is able to annoy him.
It sounds like from Riot's patch notes that they want to make other champions stronger instead of nerfing him so maybe there will be more variety.Renekton has been one of the super crazy dominating top laning champions for a while, so hopefully this is just payback that someone is able to annoy him.
Want to annoy Renekton? Play an AP top and hit him from range and make him build up MR. I don't really love playing AP tops, but I've seen Renektons fall apart when they have to deal with ranged enemies in laning, especially when they are having to focus more on magic resist than armor. Lots of people deal with it okay, but many just melt and go on tilt right from the get go.
Fought one as Liss the other day. Even with constant harass he can weather the storm which is really annoying, and if I make a damn mistake I'm going to cost most of my life if not all of it. Way easier than going up against him as a riven atleast. He pretty much had to build straight up MR, so victory for me. (He went hex ->spirit visage).
Yeah, I think Riven is a great one to deal with Renekton. I've seen Kayle do well against him too, because you can go Q to E on him and bully him from range like you can with Riven. Funny enough, Teemo gives Renekton fits too because of that dang blind.
I don't really see the point in banning Leona or Caitlyn. Neither are really power champions.
I don't think it's really a big deal to go Negatron or something first on Renekton (or just build Hydra and sustain it anwyays).
Riven is not a great one against Rene. Perfect world Rene will always win the match. He out sustains her, and goes toe to toe damage wise. He has to misplay it badly to lose.
Oh, of course, but a lot of people just don't like throwing out their "go to" builds and get annoyed by it. It's not a direct answer to Renekton, but it works for a lot of guys who main him and are hyper focused on their preferred way to play (which is a quite a good portion of them).
For more standard stuff, Trundle and Aatrox are could counter picks. Wasn't someone here a fan of top lane Elise? She works well too and sets up strong ganks with your jungler.
Really? I see it work a lot. Maybe Riven is just surviving the lane phase and having bigger impact late.
Go to youtube and search for "SoloRenektonOnly". Excellent guides for Renekton.
Athene's first on Ziggs and Malz (haven't really played him outside of arams yet so he might not actually need the mana regen with his e), no cdr on Elise. It's still only -20% though
I agree that Ziggs doesn't really need cdr, not sure about Fizz. I kinda miss his urf e
btw, does Zed really need energy regen?
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