when you pick jayce you are usually pigeonholing your team into a particular strat
you group and poke and disengage/kite
this is because he is outdueled by a lot of top laners, and like you mentioned, taking away an initiator position from your team
jayce can do really good though, like in the situation where you destroy your lane you can also push top really deep so it draws pressure onto your side of the map. if you ward nicely you should be able to avoid dying pretty easily, but this kind of also assumes that your teammates are getting stuff done elsewhere.
your build could be more efficient (jayce benefits from raw ad...if you're trying to poke) but it's not really a big deal
jayce is something that should be picked with the rest of your team in mind rather than as a generic tank/splitter top lane, which have more situations where success can be found
It's interesting. In the example match listed, we *had* an initiator. The Jayce pick wasn't taking one away form the team. Said jungler just didn't build tanky like he should have. I'd be like having a Vi and watching her build all offensive items in a game with more than enough offense at other positions on the team. At some point, it will backfire. You need to have the ability to absorb some of the firepower you're about to get hit with when you jump in. If I hadn't gone Jayce I would have gone someone like Garen, and I don't suspect the results would have been any better because ultimately, the ADC was too often in a position to get picked off *first* by a team that didn't have particularly good initiation themselves. He also often (as in several times) unloaded ults at full HP targets. Not sure if he had just mentally given up or wasn't comfortable with Jinx or what.
If you have time, I'd appreciate it if you would spectate one of my matches. I'm sure Jayce is outduled by a lot of top laners, but I'm very rarely outdueled. As you mentioned, I tend to destroy a lane and stay in that lane pushing it and forcing responses. In that particular game I had doubled the enemy Cho's CS and was up 2 or 3 kills on him, but we were down quite a bit by 15 minutes (maybe 3-12?) so I left the lane and started rotating all over the place trying to help people bring their lanes back. What I did in the manner and efficiency in which I did it...I couldn't have done it with a typical melee top. His speed, waveclear, engage and disengage really is amazing.
I definitely agree that he's really only a safe top pick when you have someone in the jungle that can build like a tank (Vi/Elise/Sej/Naut/Noc/Lee/J4, but not with someone like Yi)...but the same is true of any relatively squishy top laner or someone you'd like to build with just one defensive item. Crush a lane and it doesn't matter if it was safe or not.
I think I'm going to experiment with building him with 2 defensive items. Perhaps something like GA + Omen. But yea, I didn't face a top laner yesterday that I didn't better by 50% CS @ 15 minutes. That was vs Rivens, Ryzes, Singed's, Cho's, Trynd's, Nasus's, Jax's and a few others I can't recall. I don't think any of my teams would suggest their issue stemmed from being pigen holed by their top that's keeping them in the game. I did win about 80% of my Jayce matches yesterday, fwiw. And I really, really enjoyed having teleport + flash (though I'm still deciding...I really miss ignite for early game, but I really rather have teleport for every moment after 15 minutes).
Ty for your input.
Yeah you don't want a triforce on jayce. You should get a bloodthirster
kk
I main Jayce and I've played him in about 500 ranked games or so, I'll give my opinion.
http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/222696
Bloodthirster>IE is pretty critical, I've only bought IE 3 or 4 times and that was when I was so far ahead that I felt I could get away with a troll build. Trinity force is also not a great item, it costs too much for how small of a power boost it gives you, raw damage or defensive items are much more effective in that slot. In the game you linked you probably should've gone BV or MoM instead of tri-force. With a BV+BT you'd be a lot stronger and you'd have a better shot at out carrying Kayle.
In my games I find my ideal build to be 1 defensive item+ BT+Black Cleaver+Last Whisper+Manamune+CD boots. BC is optional, but I really like having that ARpen early. The 32.5% cool down reduction late game is pretty important also to be able to harass them down during sieges. I only stray away from that build if their team has a lot of AP or a fed assassin, something that makes me have to avoid getting blown up in the midgame.
*takes notes*
In that game I sold my Cleaver in the last 5 minutes for an IE for the last stand. I just didn't know what else to buy that I thought might help. It's almost always what I get on my first back along with tear. In the end and as I mentioned, ADC positioning is what cost us that game. He had a penchant for standing front and center. The ADC leading the team in deaths is not a coincidence. I was blowing up the Kayle, but nobody else could stand for very long because of the collective enemy cc and damage output while still being fairly tanky. ...and because Jinx couldn't figure out spacing.
I'll def consider taking the IE and TF out of my build, then. But I feel like lifesteal (in team fights, to be specific) is really only
maximized when you have some crit somewhere. Am I wrong on that observation? Is BT still a solid pickup if you're not going to pair it with any sort of crit? Also, with regard to the IE...I mean damn those are 1k crits on the active W we give up by leaving it on the sideline. With an IE, we're talking about 3-shotting (W bursting) enemy ADC's.
Have you had an opportunity to experiment with 2 defensive items? Something like:
Cleaver + LW + Boots + BT + Omen/Visage + GA/Veil?
-or-
BT + LW + Manamune + Boots + Omen/Visage + GA/Veil?
If so, what were your thoughts? Ty for your input.
