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[Dreams-Visions]

Freaking Feral Flare...

I swear that FF is ruining the game. I can't believe how many times I've been in 4v5 fights simply because the dumb crap jungler wants to build his stacks and he refuses to be with the team. Lost two games last night because of that crap. It's an item that totally encourages bad players to be much worse for team synergy.

how long does it take (in actual minutes) on average to complete a feral flare? I've been finding my Manamune time is about ~20 minutes from when I get the tear to maxing it out. Is Flare similar? Assume someone like Yi. Haven't tried FF since it was added to the game. Do you really have to afk farm to get it up and running?

 

[Stone Ocean]

Why the hell was Riven nerfed awhile ago anyways? I'm still scratching my head over that one. She's rarely played, never seen her in any tourny... yet they smacked her pretty hard.

"Hard"

She's still stupid strong, just more manageable.

how long does it take (in actual minutes) on average to complete a feral flare? I've been finding my Manamune time is about ~20 minutes from when I get the tear to maxing it out. Is Flare similar? Assume someone like Yi.

Yi had Flare and a couple items by 15 minutes before the last nerf.

 

[Edwardo]

Yea Riven was rolling over people in solo queue up in top lane.

how long does it take (in actual minutes) on average to complete a feral flare? I've been finding my Manamune time is about ~20 minutes from when I get the tear to maxing it out. Is Flare similar? Assume someone like Yi. Haven't tried FF since it was added to the game. Do you really have to afk farm to get it up and running?

Are you going the tear route more often than not as Jayce? I used to build it at first a while ago then stopped after the nerf. I just started using it again and it's nice for long sieges and fights, plus the dmg on manamune is really nice. I just find myself liking to get early items made quick so I can get some early kills in lane.

 

[Ferrio]

"Hard"

She's still stupid strong, just more manageable.

She's still strong.. but I'd never take her in any serious match EVER. Rather do a ryze or a Jax or something else. Just seems odd that they'd smack her outta the blue, but these other champs which are arguably stronger and used regularly in competitive play/ranked remain untouched.

 

[Stone Ocean]

She's still strong.. but I'd never take her in any serious match EVER. Rather do a ryze or a Jax or something else. Just seems odd that they'd smack her outta the blue, but these other champs which are arguably stronger and used regularly in competitive play/ranked remain untouched.

She's mostly a mid laner now, not top - which is what got her nerfed in the first place.

Also it was last Season, not now.

 

[PhillipCostigan]

She's still strong.. but I'd never take her in any serious match EVER. Rather do a ryze or a Jax or something else. Just seems odd that they'd smack her outta the blue, but these other champs which are arguably stronger and used regularly in competitive play/ranked remain untouched.

dude she was nerfed ages ago when Jax/Ryze were never seen :/ she was before the League of Tanks.

her big nerf was in patch 4.1

we're on patch 4.7 tomorrow, so that's like 6 months ago.

 

[Terbinator]

Fizz players are pretty close up there with Lee and Vayne players

Except the toxic Fizz players usually do carry to some extent.

Why the hell was Riven nerfed awhile ago anyways? I'm still scratching my head over that one. She's rarely played, never seen her in any tourny... yet they smacked her pretty hard.

Because she was OP.

 

[drawkcaB]

waddya mean


you can't say that about my dear athene's unholy grail :3

Sure I can. It's overtuned and I keep seeing on champions who have no business picking it up (Fizz, TF, I can go on).

how long does it take (in actual minutes) on average to complete a feral flare? I've been finding my Manamune time is about ~20 minutes from when I get the tear to maxing it out. Is Flare similar? Assume someone like Yi.

We're assuming constant farming? 15 minutes, give or take a few minutes.

Why the hell was Riven nerfed awhile ago anyways? I'm still scratching my head over that one. She's rarely played, never seen her in any tourny... yet they smacked her pretty hard.

Officially, because she was too reliant on snowballing her lane. Fairly sure the math when the nerfs were applied worked out to make her late game 4+ item build better, but that didn't take into account that snowballing will also give other advantages - levels, towers, etc.

 

[Jeff-DSA]

I hate Fizz

as a player of mage waifus you should also hate fizz. fuck that champ

I hate Fizz. I pretty much never see him lose his lane and more times than not he snowballs out of control.

 

[zkylon]

i don't think riven deserved that many nerfs tho

I hate Fizz

as a player of mage waifus you should also hate fizz. fuck that champ

i dunno i just like his voice and like lebonk's on permaban and ahri is not as pubstompy so i dunno what to do

like i feel like it's a waste buying any more supports since my friends force me to mid every game nowadays :I

and it's not like there are more ap assassins mid left:
kat - i already have her and never really liked her much
akali - meh
diana - played against one the other day, she did ok cos she got half fed off my lanes losing. couldn't shit on her in lane cos they had an eve but still i think diana's just not that fun to play these days
kass - maybe, but i don't like hyperscaling champoins too much
zky trademark dfg lizzy (f u faker i thought of it first) - still beast, but weak early game

so like fizz is the one that's like left i guess

i could also buy velkoz but meh

Fizz players are pretty close up there with Lee and Vayne players

hmm this is a compelling argument

i already play ezreal so maybe this is slowly me turning into a monster!?

Athene's rush vs Zed while you have blue buff

you buy athenes cos you don't need no zhonyas to outplay that bitch zed anyways haha :3

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Are you going the tear route more often than not as Jayce? I used to build it at first a while ago then stopped after the nerf. I just started using it again and it's nice for long sieges and fights, plus the dmg on manamune is really nice. I just find myself liking to get early items made quick so I can get some early kills in lane.

Yes, more often than now nowadays. Moreso now than before because I'm running teleport, so I can back and get it really quickly then teleport back to lane and start stacking it. So I'll have it at 5 or 6 minutes and be done stacking it around 24-25 minutes.

If I feel like I need to rush Brutalizer, I sometimes skip it because it means not getting the tear until 10-12 minutes and it not being done until 30+ minutes, which I don't really like. It's more a 50/50 thing in that situation, but more like a 90% if I can get the tear before 10 minutes.

But yea, the damage spike is dumb once it's done.

http://www.lolking.net/summoner/na/28814164#matches

Successful campaigns have been successful. With lots of room for improvement, of course. I'm growing close to concluding building Jayce as an ADC (that is, with one defensive item) may have been the wrong approach entirely. He does more than enough damage with Brutalizer + BT + LW + Manamune. My approach has been:

Boots & Tear --> Brutalizer --> BT --> LW --> Muramana --> Omen/Visage --> sell Brutalizer and buy Veil or GA.

In this setup, the Brutalizer is our early game damage and we keep it until late. At this point in the game we have more thane enough damage with BT + LW + Manamune given all of Jayce's skills. With just those 3 he's 90%'ing enemy ADC's, Mids and Supports with just the W. He just needs to be able to do a little tanking when he leaps in, and making him less glass-cannoney alleviates a lot of quams some people here have with the champ (taking away a tank from the team). Omen + Veil I'm really liking, but the experimentation will continue today.

I still miss the damage output of the infinity edge, but the speed with which those 3 damage items can get online means a whooole lot of power earlier than most enemies can keep up with. I *might* experiment with replacing LW with IE (I really miss my W 1k crits)...but I really shouldn't need it with an ADC on the team. We'll see.

Back to the lab for me.

We're assuming constant farming? 15 minutes, give or take a few minutes.

I see. I can imagine this being a burden depending on how lanes are going.

 

[garath]

Sure, but the problem is that they refuse to deviate from their plan to pile up stacks, even if a lane gets into trouble or the perfect gank opportunity comes up. I like FF in concept, but in practice it's become a bit of a mess. Otherwise good teams get penalized so hard by one greedy jungler.

He's missed three kills - not ganks - kills because he's farming wraiths. Unreal.

That's just bad jungling. Not feral flare's fault. A good jungler will always find a balance even with a snowball farming item.

I mean perfect example was my last Warwick game. I was farming happily away top golems and saw my top laner about to be dove so I walked over there for the counter gank and got us each a kill. Then went back to farming. Easy.

The item demands to be stacked to be strong but not at the expense of the game. That said, it goes both ways. When someone picks a feral flare jungler, play safer, farm well and expect a monster to come out around 20 min. Even when I pick a Warwick (practically useless till 6 even before FF), I still see laners who love to push constantly with no wards then fall apart when they get ganked. Play with some sense. Every time a feral flare jungler has to leave their jungle, that's setting them back and impacting the item's effectiveness. It's pretty crappy if that thing doesn't even turn into a flare till 25 min.

 

[zkylon]

the only champion i hate is ryze

all the others i have different degrees of liking/disliking but ryze is the one i hate for making my life miserable. at least now he's a top laner so he's another player's problem

but like i don't hate lee sin, i just find it's super annoying to have to play against him every game

Sure I can. It's overtuned and I keep seeing on champions who have no business picking it up (Fizz, TF, I can go on).

fizz is one thing but i don't think it's bad on tf

come at me bro

Rito pls.
I want to try Vi already.

OK about to buy my Yellows soon, so do I get Flat HP or HP per Level?
Gonna get a few armors and MGR too and make my Rune pages accordingly.

EDIT: Would 3 Health/per level, armor/level and MGR/level be good seals to have? 3 of each? I have an OCD in having stuff balanced like that >_>;

get 9 flat hp and 9 flat mr

trust me

 

[Edwardo]

What about playing Lux again? One of my buddies who plays a lot of mid started playing her again yesterday with some good results.

 

[Ferrio]

the only champion i hate is ryze

Ryze and Jax are both bullshit. Despise each of them.

 

[zkylon]

What about playing Lux again? One of my buddies who plays a lot of mid started playing her again yesterday with some good results.

she's still weak but still fun

Ryze and Jax are both are bullshit. Despise each of them.

i agree jax is bullshit, i just don't hate him cos he's a top laner and i don't play top lane. i always hated that thing about ryze that he free farms while our jungler is fail-camping his duo top, then ryze he tps bot, gets double kill, i get flamed and we lose the game.

 

[Stone Ocean]

That's just bad jungling. Not feral flare's fault. A good jungler will always find a balance even with a snowball farming item.

I mean perfect example was my last Warwick game. I was farming happily away top golems and saw my top laner about to be dove so I walked over there for the counter gank and got us each a kill. Then went back to farming. Easy.

The item demands to be stacked to be strong but not at the expense of the game. That said, it goes both ways. When someone picks a feral flare jungler, play safer, farm well and expect a monster to come out around 20 min. Even when I pick a Warwick (practically useless till 6 even before FF), I still see laners who love to push constantly with no wards then fall apart when they get ganked. Play with some sense. Every time a feral flare jungler has to leave their jungle, that's setting them back and impacting the item's effectiveness. It's pretty crappy if that thing doesn't even turn into a flare till 25 min.

The problem is that Feral Flare encourages shitty junglers that would rather get a stack over at Wraiths instead of getting a free Dragon. When an item like this is strong, you have morons - that would otherwise go top lane and have no effect in the game - that think that they can just take the most influential role in the game and remove it's influence.

I mean, this is straight out QQ on my part. I don't care about the balance of the item or how viable junglers using it are, as a laner I want it gone so my junglers will actually try being more than a dead weight.

If Feral Flare keeps being a thing I might as well start being a top laner and take advantage of the lack of junglers.

 

[Jeff-DSA]

Ryze and Jax are both are bullshit. Despise each of them.

Starting to feel like Jax is an auto ban now. Jax and Leona.

 

[Ferrio]

If Feral Flare keeps being a thing I might as well start being a top laner and take advantage of the lack of junglers.

The feral flare changes hopefully will take care of this. Getting stacks for kills/assists pre-flare means they don't have to stick to jungle to transform it. Not to mention the overall nerfs might discourage people from going flare alltogether.

 

[Terbinator]

That's just bad jungling. Not feral flare's fault. A good jungler will always find a balance even with a snowball farming item...

Absolutely, but I can't help but think 'Feral Yi' already put him into moron mode. He missed three absolute sitters like that where i'd left an enenmy ignited and in a Nami Q in the same side of the jungle for him and he never followed up.

He asked how my suggestion of him helping us lose the game panned out. I mean, which Yi, or player, doesn't want three open kills an alpha strike away? So dumb.

 

[clemenx]

People who afk farm with FF are doing it (boring) wrong. I've used the item a lot but I still gank and lines are my priority. It is after we've won a couple of lines and everyone's roaming that I can take some time to farm not only my jungle but also the other team's in between teamfights.

If we win fast the FF wasn't needed anyways and if we get to lategame there has been plenty of time for me to farm my FF and let it become a force.

 

[DeadNames]

Sigh. I went from promos to silver 1 to silver 3 10-20 LP, and I cannot fucking climb.

What do

 

[Edwardo]

Sigh. I went from promos to silver 1 to silver 3 10-20 LP, and I cannot fucking climb.

What do

Have you been taking breaks after you lose a couple?

 

[Blizzard]

People who afk farm with FF are doing it (boring) wrong. I've used the item a lot but I still gank and lines are my priority. It is after we've won a couple of lines and everyone's roaming that I can take some time to farm not only my jungle but also the other team's in between teamfights.

If we win fast the FF wasn't needed anyways and if we get to lategame there has been plenty of time for me to farm my FF and let it become a force.

That's the logical answer, but in practice what people do is go off to try to kill golems for stacks when the rest of the team is trying to defend mid or take a tower, typically resulting in 4v5 battles.

I feel like it can be an item that encourages bad behavior people already did, and makes it worse by providing a vague reason to do it.

 

[drawkcaB]

fizz is one thing but i don't think it's bad on tf

come at me bro

You're dead to me.

I still see laners who love to push constantly with no wards then fall apart when they get ganked. Play with some sense. Every time a feral flare jungler has to leave their jungle, that's setting them back and impacting the item's effectiveness. It's pretty crappy if that thing doesn't even turn into a flare till 25 min.

Why stop with Warwick? Happens all the time regardless. Hell, I argue it's even worse when picking an early ganking jungler because that overpushing dumbass has just ruined the entire game plan. Last night I figured ok, everyone wants to be an idiot pusher, no worries, I'll go back to Elise. Easy dives, right? WRONG! Because I forgot that these idiots aren't overextending as part of some strategy to deny CS via the tower. No no, they're actively helping the lane freeze in an overextended position.

The feral flare changes hopefully will take care of this. Getting stacks for kills/assists pre-flare means they don't have to stick to jungle to transform it. Not to mention the overall nerfs might discourage people from going flare alltogether.

Here's hoping people don't realize the change will make Wriggle's Xin better.

 

[dimb]

She's still strong.. but I'd never take her in any serious match EVER.

You guys are really weird.

 

[Terbinator]

Have you been taking breaks after you lose a couple?

The only break after a heavy tilt is when you eventually win.

 

[Leezard]

Starting to feel like Jax is an auto ban now. Jax and Leona.

Just learn to lane against Leona. She's about as dangerous as blitzcrank if you do it properly.

 

[Edwardo]

The only break after a heavy tilt is when you eventually win.

Yea that's true.

 

[zkylon]

You're dead to me.

well i bought a thornmail on my last ori game so you know i'm serious about my builds

Spoiler

i had a chain vest for ga but just enough money for thornmail and next teamfight was gonna decide it all so just bought it for some random stats... didn't work

 

[Type2]

I want to try an get an in-house going around 9pm pst.

 

[sleepykyo]

She's mostly a mid laner now, not top - which is what got her nerfed in the first place.

Also it was last Season, not now.

oh yeah, that faker mid lane riven was supposed to be quite the bully.

 

[drawkcaB]

well i bought a thornmail on my last ori game so you know i'm serious about my builds

Spoiler

i had a chain vest for ga but just enough money for thornmail and next teamfight was gonna decide it all so just bought it for some random stats... didn't work

Shoulda bought a second Grail.

I want to try an get an in-house going around 9pm pst.

I want to play a match where all my lanes don't feed. I like to keep tonight's expectations in check.

 

[Jeff-DSA]

Just learn to lane against Leona. She's about as dangerous as blitzcrank if you do it properly.

I'm not afraid of her, but she always has a big impact in the game regardless of what I do. Same with Fizz. I don't lane against him often, but by the time I see him for the first time he's this out of control monster.

 

[garath]

Cool. I just noticed lolking now shows match history way beyond 10 games.

 

[Mothman91]

Sigh. I went from promos to silver 1 to silver 3 10-20 LP, and I cannot fucking climb.

What do

Lol, happens to me time to time. Try to cut down ranked for a little , if you lose once, then stop. Try to find a good groove in normals and see if it coverts to ranked.

 

[drawkcaB]

Cool. I just noticed lolking now shows match history way beyond 10 games.

They could have done this after I went 3-17. Salt in the fucking wound.

 

[Jeff-DSA]

Any Talon players here? I've started using him a bit and he's pretty interesting. It feels like if you can just stay safe for a little while or get a level up early that you just become this map roaming boss that can bully around just about anybody.

In a match last night we had a terrible Talon that fed Leblanc and Jax, but even 2-3 levels down, he was still a near match for Leblanc. Made me think of counter-picking her with Talon rather than banning her out.

 

[zkylon]

Shoulda bought a second Grail.

now that'd be silly

i know people say there can't never get enough of a good thing but that's why i just buy it every game

 

[Ferrio]

Grail is such a silly item. Trivializes mana costs and has built in defense.

 

[Edwardo]

Back to the lab for me.

I agree, teleport will definitely help. I always found myself taking too long to go back for my first buy, which obviously delays stacking the tear. Pretty much everyone runs teleport nowadays on most top laners anyways. To be honest, it's probably just old habits making me want to keep ignite/flash on most of my high damage top laners.

I have to ask though. When stacking tear, are you spamming abilities whenever stacking is available, or do your stacks come from just using abilities throughout the game? I guess it's not a huge problem with Jayce because you can just go hammer form and stack whacking things.

I'll drop Trinity Force from my usual items now as well.

 

[garath]

Any Talon players here? I've started using him a bit and he's pretty interesting. It feels like if you can just stay safe for a little while or get a level up early that you just become this map roaming boss that can bully around just about anybody.

In a match last night we had a terrible Talon that fed Leblanc and Jax, but even 2-3 levels down, he was still a near match for Leblanc. Made me think of counter-picking her with Talon rather than banning her out.

I love Talon. He is/was my goto midlaner. I like him against almost any mage. LeBlanc is probably not one of them. I haven't tried him against her since the rework though (I only mid when I'm forced into it)

He's all burst and can really dominate a mid game. He's almost useless late though and given how many games go late these days I just haven't picked him lately.

I would typically rush a brutalizer and mobos and go roam. He can wave clear very easily with a leveled W so push in the wave and roam. I would try to get an early kill on the opponent if they somehow think that being ranged vs my melee and winning in cs early means they can bully me. Level 3 with all 3 abilities can make a quick kill.

He was my standard counter pick if Kassadin somehow made it through.

 

[Jeff-DSA]

I love Talon. He is/was my goto midlaner. I like him against almost any mage. LeBlanc is probably not one of them. I haven't tried him against her since the rework though (I only mid when I'm forced into it)

He's all burst and can really dominate a mid game. He's almost useless late though and given how many games go late these days I just haven't picked him lately.

I would typically rush a brutalizer and mobos and go roam. He can wave clear very easily with a leveled W so push in the wave and roam. I would try to get an early kill on the opponent if they somehow think that being ranged vs my melee and winning in cs early means they can bully me. Level 3 with all 3 abilities can make a quick kill.

He was my standard counter pick if Kassadin somehow made it through.

Thanks, I'll try some of that out.

When I'm angry and I just want to win, I take Katarina. The only champ I don't feel comfortable against with her is Yasuo, but I don't see him that often anyway. I'd like to expand my "eff it, I just wanna win" selection pool.

 

[drawkcaB]

that's why i just buy it every game

Doing God's work son.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

I agree, teleport will definitely help. I always found myself taking too long to go back for my first buy, which obviously delays stacking the tear. Pretty much everyone runs teleport nowadays on most top laners anyways. To be honest, it's probably just old habits making me want to keep ignite/flash on most of my high damage top laners.

I have to ask though. When stacking tear, are you spamming abilities whenever stacking is available, or do your stacks come from just using abilities throughout the game? I guess it's not a huge problem with Jayce because you can just go hammer form and stack whacking things.

I'll drop Trinity Force from my usual items now as well.

I stack it as soon as it's available when:

1.) I'm walking between lanes or to a lane.

2.) When I don't have an enemy standing across from me.

3.) When I'm not too low on mana.

When I'm in a lane I'll try to use *something* when the tear is off CD, but I wouldn't consider it simply spamming abilities. Like I'll repeatedly use W and Q when they're off CD, as when both are up, the tear is usually off CD again. Or save for an A-Gate Q. If I'm spamming a bunch of abilities in a short amount of time, I'm probably trying to severely injure or kill someone and am disregarding the tear entirely as I try to burst.

But yea when I'm walking from fountain to lane, I'm spamming everything I can as soon as the CD is up. From fountain it's usually like:

A Gate --> W --> *wait for CD* --> Q --> R --> W --> R --> and repeat. mostly with cannon form QW and hammer form W so that I'm getting the R's movespeed buff but keeping the tear off cooldown as often as possible.

 

[brian!]

this split is either going to be so fun, or it's going to be every single team begging off criticism because they are essentially new teams, which is kind of fun too

on xpecial's crush on cop:
“I want to inspire him. I want to give him the confidence to perform even better. I want him to not be scared. If I tell him to be confident I want him to be more relaxed and be able to rely on me as much as I rely on him,” Xpecial said. “I think working with him will hopefully turn out really well. While Cop has played well, I think Cop has even more potential, and I hope I’m the one to help him reach [it].”

holy shit
“These past three years are going to be one of my fondest memories. The next however-long time it may be? I want those to be fond, as well.”

 

[zkylon]

Doing God's work son.

can you count the athenes?

Spoiler

only 11

edit: does anyone know what the like (5.9) or (4.7) or whatever right next to some of the cs counts means? i thought it would've been like cspm or something but since it's only on some games i have no idea

 

[Dreams-Visions]

can you count the athenes?

Spoiler

only 11

edit: does anyone know what the like (5.9) or (4.7) or whatever right next to some of the cs counts means? i thought it would've been like cspm or something but since it's only on some games i have no idea

what website is that bro

 

[zkylon]

op.gg

 

[Mandoric]

edit: does anyone know what the like (5.9) or (4.7) or whatever right next to some of the cs counts means? i thought it would've been like cspm or something but since it's only on some games i have no idea

it's cs/m, it isn't calculated for some games because it didn't see how long the game lasted.