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League of Legends |OT6| My AP Mid Can't Be This Cute

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T

Terbinator

Member
Lolesports site is knackered and the London tickets are meant to be going up in 15 minutes.

Edit: Anyone who has been to an LCS day, do they give out free swagyolo? Wondering whether or not to hold out on the Nami skin in the hope they might have redemption cards there.
 
S

Stone Ocean

Member
garath said:
Take away the stealth for a second.. How many assassins can one shot a squishy? Quite a few. With few items? Again quite a few. The twitch, leblanc or lux didn't build a lick of defense until the Rengar was fed beyond it mattering.
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One shotting a squishy while being severely behind without any help whatsoever? I can think of what, two assassins that can do that? And not without farming enough for something like a Large Rod and Sorc Boots, unless you're Ryze.

Also being forced to buy defenses early as a squishy carry is a death sentence either way. Wasting close to 800 gold on a chain vest will hold off Rengar from killing you for so long, while your damage falls off and their carries get their damage items.

garath said:
As far as the stealth, isn't that the pot calling the kettle black? Twitch getting owned by stealth Rengar? Plus there's plenty of visual and auditory cues that there is a stealthed Rengar in range unlike Twitch or Eve.
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Twitch is equally a problem, but he doesn't do that 10 minutes in the game.
Also unless you're playing with a locked screen, that little exclamation mark and a roar aren't "plenty of visual and auditory cues". He can just ult near you from the fog of war and you'll have what, a second to react and run? Not like it'll matter since he has a MS buff, a free gap closer and vision.

garath said:
He is still flawed in so many ways. He'll one shot someone then stand there looking stupid while you own him with that build. He has no more escapes or defenses until he regens the ferocity. Ryan just happens to be an excellent Rengar and can make the most of it. His team happened to do very well that game as well. Still, the rengar had the second most deaths on his team, even with the number of kills he had.
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He died 4 times after he left lane. 4 times, with no escape or buying any sort of resistances. Let's not pretend Rengar is squishy or helpless after he ults, specially when fed.

Like the whole rework tango Rengar went through was specifically so he couldn't do this. And now he's probably doing it better than he used to thanks to min-maxing.
 
G

garath

Member
Stone Ocean said:
One shotting a squishy while being severely behind without any help whatsoever? I can think of what, two assassins that can do that? And not without farming enough for something like a Large Rod and Sorc Boots, unless you're Ryze.

Also being forced to buy defenses early as a squishy carry is a death sentence either way. Wasting close to 800 gold on a chain vest will hold off Rengar from killing you for so long, while your damage falls off and their carries get their damage items.


Twitch is equally a problem, but he doesn't do that 10 minutes in the game.
Also unless you're playing with a locked screen, that little exclamation mark and a roar aren't "plenty of visual and auditory cues". He can just ult near you from the fog of war and you'll have what, a second to react and run? Not like it'll matter since he has a MS buff and vision.


He died 4 times after he left lane. 4 times, with no escape or buying any sort of resistances. Let's not pretend Rengar is squishy or helpless after he ults, specially when fed.

Like the whole rework tango Rengar went through was specifically so he couldn't do this. And now he's probably doing it better than he used to thanks to min-maxing.
Click to expand...

Yes. One shotting a squishy even if you are "behind". In this example, behind is 67 cs and 1 kill at 10 minutes? That's not very behind. Regardless of how much CS twitch has, he only has a botrk and no defenses and was already at like 80% health. So yes, I'd expect any assassin who has spent 1750 gold on real items to be able to tear up an 80% squishy. LeBlanc, syndra, akali, Khazix, etc. They can all do this. From there he snowballs.

And it's obvious Twitch spots the rengar. He immediately starts moving away. Unfortunately for him, he's over extended and Rengar has the Janna movespeed buff as well as his ult movespeed buff.

I understand we're not a fan of assassins with stealth. Chances are he'll be nerfed anyways because Riot doesn't like assassins with stealth either but acting like this is horribly OP and broken is silly.
 
Tizoc

Tizoc

Member
Sweet jeebus Fiora goes down like wet paper in the late game, maybe I'll make her an armor as her 4th/5th item instead of last >_>;

Terbinator said:
This is pretty consistent if you tab-out during the match loading screen.
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...but I've been doing that regularly and it only happened in my recent 2 ARAM matches. >_>;
 
J

Jeff-DSA

Member
Rengar gets scary, yes, but he only seems to really get rolling if A) your team doesn't ward, and B) people roam alone without the team and lack CC.

If you don't have a stun or a slow and Rengar is starting to burst people down quickly, you probably shouldn't be out there on your own. I play a lot of Katarina and Talon, and it's the same deal. Once I start roaming with those two, I can burst someone down immediately if they don't see me coming. Assassins fill a good role in the game, but all of them get wrecked in team fights if they get focused or CC'd early.

If I'm left to support and the other team has Regar, I usually will grab Lulu. You can slow him with your Q, you can polymorph him, or you can throw down a giant growth on your teammate that he heads for and it all generally provides enough of an escape window. Again, this is providing that your teammates don't wander off alone without some sort of escapability.
 
P

PhillipCostigan

Member
last game on ryan choi's stream

granted he was smurfing but...

IgxzXYJ.jpg
Click to expand...

it was a funny game.
 
D

drawkcaB

Member
garath said:
I understand we're not a fan of assassins with stealth. Chances are he'll be nerfed anyways because Riot doesn't like assassins with stealth either but acting like this is horribly OP and broken is silly.
Click to expand...

I've said this before, but Riot should have gone with the initial idea that Rengar's ult is just a very long lasting movement speed increase but with no stealth and on a low-ish cooldown. Because of his Ferocity amp'ed abilities, Rengar doesn't need a particularly good ultimate but they gave him one anyways.

That said if Riot finally got around to finding good solutions to counter stealth maybe these champions wouldn't be as aggravating as they are. Maybe they should revisit the idea of stealth wards acting as motion sensors to stealth champions like when they were trying to fix Eve in S2.
 
L

Leezard

Member
garath said:
Yes. One shotting a squishy even if you are "behind". In this example, behind is 67 cs and 1 kill at 10 minutes? That's not very behind. Regardless of how much CS twitch has, he only has a botrk and no defenses and was already at like 80% health. So yes, I'd expect any assassin who has spent 1750 gold on real items to be able to tear up an 80% squishy. LeBlanc, syndra, akali, Khazix, etc. They can all do this. From there he snowballs.

And it's obvious Twitch spots the rengar. He immediately starts moving away. Unfortunately for him, he's over extended and Rengar has the Janna movespeed buff as well as his ult movespeed buff.

I understand we're not a fan of assassins with stealth. Chances are he'll be nerfed anyways because Riot doesn't like assassins with stealth either but acting like this is horribly OP and broken is silly.
Click to expand...
Being behind 1 kill and 67 cs is being really behind, at least at that level of play. Losing lane in high diamond is typically 1 or 2 kills down, 30-40 cs down. Much more than that is going to be essentially a stomp. So yes, he is quite far behind.

Rengar is definitely OP at the moment. Not horribly broken, but definitely op. Some minor changes will probably be able to balance him.
 
M

Moodmon

Neo Member
I think they do this now and again at different places to let different countries see LCS live. I know they have done stuff at Dreamhack and the like.

Terbinator said:
Got my LCS tickets :3
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Now the question is do I hi-five you now, or wait till the inevitable Gaf LCS meetup?
 
T

Terbinator

Member
Moodmon said:
Now the question is do I hi-five you now, or wait till the inevitable Gaf LCS meetup?
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Maybe! Not sure I want to mix IRL friends with GAFers though
jk
. I think we'll be getting to London on the Friday and probably scout a gaming bar/Kyoto out for some NA LCS anyway.
 
G

garath

Member
Leezard said:
Being behind 1 kill and 67 cs is being really behind, at least at that level of play. Losing lane in high diamond is typically 1 or 2 kills down, 30-40 cs down. Much more than that is going to be essentially a stomp. So yes, he is quite far behind.

Rengar is definitely OP at the moment. Not horribly broken, but definitely op. Some minor changes will probably be able to balance him.
Click to expand...

No, I was saying Rengar had the 1 kill and 67 cs at 10 min. For how badly he should have been stomped in lane, that is not bad at all. In this context, it doesn't matter in the slightest how much CS twitch had because it wasn't spent on a defensive item (not saying he should have either.. just discussing the "one shot"). Twitch was running from 3 people, not fighting. Rengar had enough gold for a big ticket item (not even counting what he spent on consumables) which would give him a power spike. He chose to 4 dorans it but still, that's 1750 gold.

Rengar is no more broken than any other assassin. He's perhaps a little over tuned that he gets so much from straight penetration but not broken.

That said, he will get toned down because that's the way assassins have been treated historically. Once they start being more widely used, regardless of how long they have existed in that state, they get nerfed if they start having too many complaints.
 
S

Snowman

Member
garath said:
No, I was saying Rengar had the 1 kill and 67 cs at 10 min. For how badly he should have been stomped in lane, that is not bad at all. In this context, it doesn't matter in the slightest how much CS twitch had because it wasn't spent on a defensive item (not saying he should have either.. just discussing the "one shot"). Twitch was running from 3 people, not fighting. Rengar had enough gold for a big ticket item (not even counting what he spent on consumables) which would give him a power spike. He chose to 4 dorans it but still, that's 1750 gold.

Rengar is no more broken than any other assassin. He's perhaps a little over tuned that he gets so much from straight penetration but not broken.

That said, he will get toned down because that's the way assassins have been treated historically. Once they start being more widely used, regardless of how long they have existed in that state, they get nerfed if they start having too many complaints.
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Anyone who has played adc vs a rengar lately will tell you you're crazy for defending that shit

rengar is fucking stupid right now, like, 1st patch of feral flare master yi levels of stupid
 
B

Blizzard

Banned
I don't like things that people call OP because I am always bad at abusing them.

Like, I try Katarina, but she seems like she is very bad at CS, avoiding harass, being able to trade, etc. before level 6, and then after level 6 enemies seem to just ward, be pushed to their tower, and/or have abilities that will cancel Kat ult in order to prevent the sort of "instant burst" that people talk about.

I would be interested in trying the Rengar build people are referring to, but does it require specific runes or masteries? Specific timing to trigger the burst like the previous weird triple-hit thing? Do they do all dorans BEFORE all brutalizers, or just one or the other?
 
S

Snowman

Member
it's like he's never gonna be good in competitive play because people will just make sure to have pink wards and everyone on the team will be ready for that shit but in solo q he just makes a mess of people
 
L

Leezard

Member
garath said:
No, I was saying Rengar had the 1 kill and 67 cs at 10 min. For how badly he should have been stomped in lane, that is not bad at all. In this context, it doesn't matter in the slightest how much CS twitch had because it wasn't spent on a defensive item (not saying he should have either.. just discussing the "one shot"). Twitch was running from 3 people, not fighting. Rengar had enough gold for a big ticket item (not even counting what he spent on consumables) which would give him a power spike. He chose to 4 dorans it but still, that's 1750 gold.

Rengar is no more broken than any other assassin. He's perhaps a little over tuned that he gets so much from straight penetration but not broken.

That said, he will get toned down because that's the way assassins have been treated historically. Once they start being more widely used, regardless of how long they have existed in that state, they get nerfed if they start having too many complaints.
Click to expand...

Oh right, I took another look at the video. He was still 3 kills and 50 cs behind which is even worse than being 1 kill and 67 cs behind. The guy was really behind. That said, I don't have much problem with that, it did take some time and he had Janna assistance. This is way worse though:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOGDFOeuVlM

He's not broken, but he's op. Over tuned is still in the realm of op.
 
S

Stone Ocean

Member
Rengar is more broken than any other assassin because he is not meant to be like this. He was reworked specifically so he didn't do this unless he was ridiculously ahead.

Ridiculously ahead isn't meant to be "one BFS worth of Doran's Blades"
Blizzard said:
I would be interested in trying the Rengar build people are referring to, but does it require specific runes or masteries? Specific timing to trigger the burst like the previous weird triple-hit thing? Do they do all dorans BEFORE all brutalizers, or just one or the other?
Click to expand...
No, no and no.

Ryan Choi just goes a generic flat AD page, swapping MR blues for more flat AD in case the enemy team has no magic damage. He doesn't do any unusual combo for his ult to burst someone down from what I take it, he'll use skills as necessary for him to go around but usually it's mostly the double Q that does the work. And he pretty much always gets 4 dorans before anything else, even boots.
 
S

Stone Ocean

Member
Ferrio said:
Incoming doran's blade nerfs.
Click to expand...
That would create way more problems than Rengar is worth.

They'll probably gut the damage on Q and call it a day. And if even then he's still a problem, I can see Riot going through with one of their initial ideas for the rework, getting rid of the separate cooldown between normal and empowered abilities - though I hope they don't need to go this far, I hate Rengar and never want to see him again but removing double Qs completely would probably feel like shit.
 
J

Jeff-DSA

Member
Stone Ocean said:
Ryan Choi just goes a generic flat AD page, swapping MR blues for more flat AD in case the enemy team has no magic damage. He doesn't do any unusual combo for his ult to burst someone down from what I take it, he'll use skills as necessary for him to go around but usually it's mostly the double Q that does the work. And he pretty much always gets 4 dorans before anything else, even boots.
Click to expand...

How well does this work when he's not nerfing? Just curious if it's an issue in higher elo matches or not.
 
L

Leezard

Member
Stone Ocean said:
That would create way more problems than Rengar is worth.

They'll probably gut the damage on Q and call it a day. And if even then he's still a problem, I can see Riot going through with one of their initial ideas for the rework, getting rid of the separate cooldown between normal and empowered abilities - though I hope they don't need to go this far, I hate Rengar and never want to see him again but removing double Qs completely would probably feel like shit.
Click to expand...

His Q got a massive buff recently so that would probably be fair.

Jeff-DSA said:
How well does this work when he's not nerfing? Just curious if it's an issue in higher elo matches or not.
Click to expand...

You mean smurfing? Rengar is mostly an issue in higher elo matches. The video I posted earlier is high diamond 1/challenger. Here it is again: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOGDFOeuVlM . I saw the Vayne game on ryan choi's stream from his point of view and his team was losing really hard. They managed to win since he could oneshot vayne and zyra any time he wanted, and got away with it because soloq.
 
Casanova

Casanova

Member
I just don't understand. I go from winning every game, fairly easily, to losing 6 games in a row and being demoted. Three AFK games and my demotion game I had a pantheon who thought he could be our ranged adc.

This game is so shit.
 
J

Jeff-DSA

Member
Casanova said:
I just don't understand. I go from winning every game, fairly easily, to losing 6 games in a row and being demoted. Three AFK games and my demotion game I had a pantheon who thought he could be our ranged adc.

This game is so shit.
Click to expand...

Last night a dude called "troll" in team selection. Sure enough, he took Twisted Fate as jungler and proceeded to intentionally feed and walk into turrets randomly. He would sit there and watch team fights, not doing anything, and then run in and steal a kill as it was wrapping up or he'd intentionally die if we started to run. It was a joke. We were the far better team, but he just threw the game to them. There's nothing you can do in those instances.
 
P

PhillipCostigan

Member
Stone Ocean said:
No, no and no.

Ryan Choi just goes a generic flat AD page, swapping MR blues for more flat AD in case the enemy team has no magic damage. He doesn't do any unusual combo for his ult to burst someone down from what I take it, he'll use skills as necessary for him to go around but usually it's mostly the double Q that does the work. And he pretty much always gets 4 dorans before anything else, even boots.
Click to expand...

this is incorrect

there is a very precise combo you have to do for a particular reason if you want to one shot someone and it requires specific items.

You have to have a Tiamat and Ghostblade for one. You also have to have 5 ferocity stacks.

When you find who you want to kill, you have to press hydra and ghostblade mid-leap after activating your Q. Doing it too early or too late will mess the combo up. I did it multiple times myself.

The idea is that because the Tiamat/Hydra proc doesn't go off mid air, it will insta clear the wave when you hit the ground. Also the empowered Q gives him 10% AD.

He's not actually insta-gibbing someone in one shot. It's actually an empowered Q, Hydra proc, W and bola strike. The Hydra clearing the wave as you hit the ground allows you to hit them with the bola strike easily enough as there are no minions for it to get caught on.

If you make a balls of it you will either de-stealth because you did it before the leap and probably die, or cancel your Q auto because you activated Hydra too late and die. It's not as easy as people make it out to be. It's precise and takes practice. He's also pretty much stranded after.

It's a perfect example of how a high-skilled mechanical player who has practised the champion a tonne can do this.

If they change it so they Hydra proc will happen in mid-air and not when he lands that would actually nerf it a significant amount because it messes the combo up.

Remember, this is still a very much nerfed Rengar. Overall he does less damage and has a harder time doing his job than before unless you do this specific combo that takes practice to pull off and can be countered by organised team play.

you folks should really try putting this stuff into practice before you make blanket statements.
 
A

AcridMeat

Banned
Welp, in promos and i first picked leona, now we have a karma top, lee sin, TF and graves

they have draven jayce morg panth talon

-_- why can't people pay attention in champ select
 
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