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League of Legends |OT6| My AP Mid Can't Be This Cute

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I

Imperfected

Member
brian! said:
Oh yeah that too, but I was also thinking about lucian's contribution to the team in the games they lose, whether the lucian pick contributed meaningfully to those losses
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It's really, really hard to say with "safe" carries because by their nature it's not like they give up tons of kills. They tend to have deceptively impressive-looking KDA because it's easier for them to snipe secured kills and obviously quite a bit less likely for them to die.

Like, the only time I've ever seen a safety carry just blatantly costing their team the game was an Ezreal trying to do a semi-blue build (he had a Tear at least) just being completely and totally incapable of doing anything to a Mundo. The Mundo was regenerating faster than he was damaging him, which is the point where I'm pretty comfortable saying, "I don't care if you're 3/0/10, Ezreal, it's your fucking fault we've lost this."
 
F

Fuzzery

Member
Imperfected said:
It's really, really hard to say with "safe" carries because by their nature it's not like they give up tons of kills. They tend to have deceptively impressive-looking KDA because it's easier for them to snipe secured kills and obviously quite a bit less likely for them to die.

Like, the only time I've ever seen a safety carry just blatantly costing their team the game was an Ezreal trying to do a semi-blue build (he had a Tear at least) just being completely and totally incapable of doing anything to a Mundo. The Mundo was regenerating faster than he was damaging him, which is the point where I'm pretty comfortable saying, "I don't care if you're 3/0/10, Ezreal, it's your fucking fault we've lost this."
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Well, it's also the entire team's fault for not having enough dmg to take down mundo, or enough tank/frontline to match him
 
I

Imperfected

Member
Fuzzery said:
Well, it's also the entire team's fault for not having enough dmg to take down mundo, or enough tank/frontline to match him
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We actually just realized Ezreal was only useful as bait and let Mundo chase him Benny Hill style while we dove into the rest of their team. He was more useful as a chew toy for Mundo to chase than he was as a source of damage, anyway. The problem wasn't that we couldn't stop Mundo from chasing him - we could - it just became painfully obvious that wasting our CC peeling for an Ez that did no damage was costing us fights we could have won by using it to actually dive their carries.

We still ended up losing because they had an actual carry who did crazy things like bring down towers, but at least it was amusing.
 
F

Fuzzery

Member
Imperfected said:
We actually just realized Ezreal was only useful as bait and let Mundo chase him Benny Hill style while we dove into the rest of their team. He was more useful as a chew toy for Mundo to chase than he was as a source of damage, anyway. The problem wasn't that we couldn't stop Mundo from chasing him - we could - it just became painfully obvious that wasting our CC peeling for an Ez that did no damage was costing us fights we could have won by using it to actually dive their carries.

We still ended up losing because they had an actual carry who did crazy things like bring down towers, but at least it was amusing.
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CC doesn't stop mundo, damage does. Need champs like yi,tryndamere, jax, elise
 
B

brian!

Member
Oh I just meant whether the winrate he has in lcs reflects his status as a particular tier of adc or not, or whether the majority of the games he has lost has him meaningfully contribute to the loss (ie we shoulda picked another ad) vs other things happening outside of the lucian pick impacting the loss more
 
I

Imperfected

Member
Fuzzery said:
CC doesn't stop mundo, damage does. Need champs like yi,tryndamere, jax, elise
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CC lets your carry do damage to him, if your carry actually does damage. If you have a Vayne or a Jinx you just have to lock down whatever's attacking them long enough for them to shred it to pieces.

Like, the solution to Mundo is not having Leona go build a bunch of damage. It's having Leona hold him down while a carry that doesn't suck wrecks him. Unfortunately, we were chronically short on carries that didn't suck.
 
F

Fuzzery

Member
Lucians like ez lategame, his dmg isn't too high against tanks, has some poke, but unlike ez, lucian gets owned by mages more

Imperfected said:
CC lets your carry do damage to him, if your carry actually does damage. If you have a Vayne or a Jinx you just have to lock down whatever's attacking them long enough for them to shred it to pieces.

Like, the solution to Mundo is not having Leona go build a bunch of damage. It's having Leona hold him down while a carry that doesn't suck wrecks him. Unfortunately, we were chronically short on carries that didn't suck.
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Mundo gets 30% tenacity from his W, so ccing him is generally ineffective. You can always pick a champ that does more damage or you can build more damage if it's an issue. Killing mundo is always a team effort. You have to have damage in your mid/top/jungle

The main thing is, if you see in champ select you won't have enough damage, you should work to remedy that then and there, instead of then realizing it later
 
E

Einbroch

Banned
I find it funny that the most recent top laner released that sees significant play this season was released in 2011.

I'm curious if we'll see a traditional tanky top laner released soon or if Riot will want to steer away from that meta.
 
D

DeadNames

Banned
Einbroch said:
I find it funny that the most recent top laner released that sees significant play this season was released in 2011.

I'm curious if we'll see a traditional tanky top laner released soon or if Riot will want to steer away from that meta.
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Nope, no, please no. Fuck tanks.
 
I

Imperfected

Member
Fuzzery said:
Mundo gets 30% tenacity from his W, so ccing him is generally ineffective. You can always pick a champ that does more damage or you can build more damage if it's an issue. Killing mundo is always a team effort. You have to have damage in your mid/top/jungle
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...?

Dude, it's Tenacity, not Ragnarok. It's completely useless versus Alistar, almost negligible value versus Zyra, and actually not that helpful versus Leona (who relies more on micro-stuns/roots with minimal duration that can be spammed, anyway). Maybe if your only peel is a Morgana or Fiddlesticks you just have to let Mundo go where he pleases, but most support crews can actually protect their carry from him just fine.

The main thing is, if you see in champ select you won't have enough damage, you should work to remedy that then and there, instead of then realizing it later
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You say that as if I don't tell everyone at every opportunity to pick champions that do more damage than Ezreal.
 
E

Einbroch

Banned
Stone Ocean said:
https://twitter.com/LeagueOfLegends

The free Dreadnight Garen for following LoL's twitter is avaiable on NA as well. Get your free crap skin for your trash champ
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jaguars-fan-gif_medium.gif
 
Z

zkylon

zkylewd
well latin america got commando garen (i wish i could return him) so it could be worse

at least dreadknight garen looks a bit like the guy from hannibal
 
B

brian!

Member
Ez does plenty dmg he just feels weak if you get behind. He has free atspd and dmg frontloaded on his ultimate, he definitely pales to more crit focused dmg tho and can't burn down a tank as fast but he can assassinate the shit out of a lot of ppl with trin Bork
its hard to lane him against competent ppl tho
 
B

Boken

Banned
trash champ or not, garens ultimate feels fan fucking tastic


its like
u feel like ur so god damn powerful that ur ultimate knocked them out of the space time continum

its like ur ultimate is so strong it created a localised gravity explosion that sucked ur foe into another dimension
 
Z

zkylon

zkylewd
brian! said:
Ez does plenty dmg he just feels weak if you get behind. He has free atspd and dmg frontloaded on his ultimate, he definitely pales to more crit focused dmg tho and can't burn down a tank as fast but he can assassinate the shit out of a lot of ppl with trin Bork
its hard to lane him against competent ppl tho
Click to expand...

yea i dunno what changed about him but he felt a lot stronger in s3 for some reason
 
I

Imperfected

Member
brian! said:
Ez does plenty dmg he just feels weak if you get behind. He has free atspd and dmg frontloaded on his ultimate, he definitely pales to more crit focused dmg tho and can't burn down a tank as fast but he can assassinate the shit out of a lot of ppl with trin Bork
its hard to lane him against competent ppl tho
Click to expand...

He's probably okay but sub-optimal with a better build. I think Blue Build Ez is (or at least should be) completely dead, though.

The problem with him is he's really stuck in an "everything you can do I can do better" situation with Lucian. You can reposition? My reposition cleanses slows. You get an attack speed buff? I just get free attacks. You can harass through minions? My harass through minions scales off AD, not AP. You can use Trinity Force and BotRK effectively? Bitch, I'm build agnostic, I'll make any ADC item I please and it'll scale right.

The ultimate is still kind of neat, but it's pretty hard to justify taking inferior everything else just to get it. I honestly think Ez was nerfed too much; even if he had been untouched he would be pretty weak due to global game changes (mostly the fact that everyone except mid laners and ADCs got sturdier), but put the two together and he just does not have the go-juice to carry games anymore.

You can still shoot glowy pom-poms at your jungler to cheer them on while they do the actual carrying, though, so I guess that's nice?
 
S

Stone Ocean

Member
Boken said:
trash champ or not, garens ultimate feels fan fucking tastic


its like
u feel like ur so god damn powerful that ur ultimate knocked them out of the space time continum

its like ur ultimate is so strong it created a localised gravity explosion that sucked ur foe into another dimension
Click to expand...
I wish all executes had special animations when you actually execute someone like Garen's.
 
Z

zkylon

zkylewd
Imperfected said:
He's probably okay but sub-optimal with a better build. I think Blue Build Ez is (or at least should be) completely dead, though.

The problem with him is he's really stuck in an "everything you can do I can do better" situation with Lucian. You can reposition? My reposition cleanses slows. You get an attack speed buff? I just get free attacks. You can harass through minions? My harass through minions scales off AD, not AP. You can use Trinity Force and BotRK effectively? Bitch, I'm build agnostic, I'll make any ADC item I please and it'll scale right.

The ultimate is still kind of neat, but it's pretty hard to justify taking inferior everything else just to get it. I honestly think Ez was nerfed too much; even if he had been untouched he would be pretty weak due to global game changes (mostly the fact that everyone except mid laners and ADCs got sturdier), but put the two together and he just does not have the go-juice to carry games anymore.

You can still shoot glowy pom-poms at your jungler to cheer them on while they do the actual carrying, though, so I guess that's nice?
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shooting glowy pom poms is the main reason i play eazyreal anywayz :D
 
Z

zkylon

zkylewd
if less damage on his q means he loses his godly waveclear i don't see him being played in mid anymore

i see him played as a jungler even more after those changes
 
S

Stone Ocean

Member
zkylon said:
if less damage on his q means he loses his godly waveclear i don't see him being played in mid anymore

i see him played as a jungler even more after those changes
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Yeah, less damage but harder CC could make him a really strong jungler with terrifying level 6 ganks.

Which is fine by me, fuck off mid forever, fatman
 
Z

zkylon

zkylewd
well as someone that enjoyed playing him i'll miss lining up his ults and that awesome feeling when you got the perfect ult into your barrel combo.

not saying he doesn't deserve being nerfed, he does, but still i'll miss the big guy
 
K

Kenai

Member
zkylon said:
yea i dunno what changed about him but he felt a lot stronger in s3 for some reason
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I feel like back in S3 him being able to poke for a lot of damage + get away really easy with E was a lot more rare than now. With his Q he could basically outpoke anything except maybe Cait with a Soraka feeding her mana.

And then Ez was so tied to TF that even after the nerfs that made a lot of ADCs say buhbye to it he still uses it as his core.

They also lowered his base movespeed a bit and removed the slow effect to enemies on his W but I don't remember when that happened, coulda been before S3.

Basically Lucian took his jerb since he gets away about as well, but has a more practical kit for harassing through minions/chasing people down.
 
T

Talents

Banned
So I tried to get the Garen code thing but I forgot to change the option to EU, so I ended up getting an NA code. Is there any way to get an EU code as well as I tried to create a new twitter account to get it but I guess the page logs your IP as I was unable to get an EU code. I am unable to do things well when I am tired.
 
Z

zkylon

zkylewd
Boken said:
gragas rework?

christmas is here
woooooo

i can see him being played as support

slow, stun and knockbacks? wowwww
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didnt think about it

he sounds pretty beast as support too

in fact he should be pretty op as support right now too lol

maybe i'll try him
 
I

Imperfected

Member
Well, Ez seemed stronger in S3 because junglers and supports were poor and underleveled, so a Q could chunk them pretty hard. Now that they can actually get some defensive stats and only fall a level or two behind instead of three to five, those Q's just don't really have the same meaty feel to them anymore.

Probably didn't help that the rise of the assassins made mid laners more aware of the need to have Armor in their runes and builds, either. Ez's damage hasn't really changed, it's just the entire rest of the game has gotten tankier.
 
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