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[Stone Ocean]

i dont know what "well designed" means

i just think his kit is overloaded. he has 5x utility spells in his kit, which kinda puts an incredibly high standard on the kits of other supports

He's well designed because of the gameplay he creates. He has no real weaknesses, but everything he does creates interesting stuff for both sides. His kit has almost everything so you can't really erase him from the game, but even if he's ahead if you can dodge his shit you can still dodge his shit. You could remove all damage from his kit and he'd still be good, not to mention he's probably never going to be a problem in any other role.

Thresh setting a standard for support kits is a good thing, even if he's too strong.

 

[Snowman]

i dont know what "well designed" means

i just think his kit is overloaded. he has 5x utility spells in his kit, which kinda puts an incredibly high standard on the kits of other supports

it's not so much the amount of utility spells but how good they are really, what support doesn't have 5x utility spells?

 

[Boken]

pity zkylon wasnt watching lcs

late game ryze op unstoppable tanky high damage yeah right.
1x or even 2x armor items isnt going to stop a long range carry from shredding you

zky pls respond

He's well designed because of the gameplay he creates. He has no real weaknesses, but everything he does creates interesting stuff for both sides. His kit has almost everything so you can't really erase him from the game, but even if he's ahead if you can dodge his shit you can still dodge his shit. You could remove all damage from his kit and he'd still be good, not to mention he's probably never going to be a problem in any other role.

Thresh setting a standard for support kits is a good thing, even if he's too strong.

sorry, i dont find incredibly long range lanterns to save people to be interesting for the defenders. its the same kind of frustration people associate with nidalee spears. "i cant really do anything to the thresh that is way in the back line". there isnt enough counterplay for the incredible power it comes with.

hes both initiator, peeler, counter initiator AND basically top tier at all of them. he doesnt have to alter his build path to specalise, he can build the same thing each time and both initiate and defend. personally, i dont find that good "design". it doesnt allow the enemy team to alter their play style to respond to his capabilities - because his capabilities are everything, throughout the entire game. a champion who can do everything is also not "good design" because it encourages flatlining of team picks (e.g. thresh works in any team), rather than specialising in strategies, which i dont find very interesting

i wouldnt mind if all supports had overloaded kits that could do practically anything too, but we are so far from that.

it's not so much the amount of utility spells but how good they are really, what support doesn't have 5x utility spells?

right. not just that he has 5x utility, all of them are godlike in their power.

 

[Stone Ocean]

sorry, i dont find incredibly long range lanterns to save people to be incredibly interesting for the defenders. there isnt enough counterplay for the incredible power it comes with.

hes both initiator and defender AND almost top tier at both. personally, i dont find that good "design".

i wouldnt mind if all supports had overloaded kits that could do practically anything too, but we are so far from that.

But that's a number problem, not a kit one.

Yeah, lantern range is stupid, but the lantern per se is awesome. That's my point, his kit is amazingly put together, it's his numbers that are off and you can nerf those without making him any less fun to play or viable, really.

 

[Boken]

But that's a number problem, not a kit one.

Yeah, lantern range is stupid, but the lantern per se is awesome. That's my point, his kit is amazingly put together, it's his numbers that are off and you can nerf those without making him any less fun to play or viable, really.

i would be open to them making the lantern range scale so that thresh is forced to specialise

or maybe some counterplay.
its kinda sick that people can be hard cc'd and still take the lantern.

i dont even see why he deserves a shield on the lanterns current iteration. they even made it impossible to completely block recently.

 

[Snowman]

morgana is the most op support right now anyway

 

[brian!]

it's too late

the damage has been done

you wound me brian

ill show u dmg

 

[cHinzo]

sorry, i dont find incredibly long range lanterns to save people to be interesting for the defenders. its the same kind of frustration people associate with nidalee spears. "i cant really do anything to the thresh that is way in the back line". there isnt enough counterplay for the incredible power it comes with.

The lantern can still be blocked by standing on it with your champion or u can just put some wards on it so they attack the ward instead of clicking on the lantern. Ever thought about that?

When I think of skills without counterplay, I think of those Nidalee spears u mentioned (slippery as fck champion, combined with a dodge or die spammable long range skill) or Kayle's ult (standing out of position and get caught? No problem, tank every skills and still be full health).

morgana is the most op support right now anyway

I find playing against a Morgana support playable as long as u max Q first, so it's cooldown is lower than the black shield. Morgana's counter are poke and sustain supports, so they might work as well against her. I do like to play champs with long range skillshot Q's though, like Blitz, Thresh and Morgana.

 

[Boken]

The lantern can still be blocked by standing on it with your champion or u can just put some wards on it so they attack the ward instead of clicking on the lantern. Ever thought about that?

When I think of skills without counterplay, I think of those Nidalee spears u mentioned (slippery as fck champion, combined with a dodge or die spammable long range skill) or Kayle's ult (standing out of position and get caught? No problem, tank every skills and still be full health).

as i said, there isnt *enough* counterplay

sure you can try to block the lantern, but they've made that a lot harder because it is now impassible terrain. so yes, i have thought about those old old tricks, thanks though.

nidalee spears and thresh lanterns are pretty similiar. the best response to a lantern is going on the thresh, when the lantern tether is around 1500 range.

 

[brian!]

thanks though

 

[jerd]

Boken clearly just can't appreciate the plays.

Srsly though if nothing else the random free damage on his E should be gone.

 

[drawkcaB]

Thresh isn't overpowered. Just well designed.

Good job Riot. You've left Thresh as the Lee Sin of supports for so long people actually think this.

Srsly though if nothing else the random free damage on his E should be gone.

Next champ confirmed to be a support designed by Wrekz. Who else has he designed?

I'm not sure what specifically, but something from his kit has to be completely removed wholesale.

I think I saw somewhere that this is Wrekz first champion.

Please be a female

I think it might be that Osiris looking champion from a while back.

 

[Orochinagis]

Next champ confirmed to be a support designed by Wrekz. Who else has he designed?

Please be a female

 

[Snowman]

I find playing against a Morgana support playable as long as u max Q first, so it's cooldown is lower than the black shield. Morgana's counter are poke and sustain supports, so they might work as well against her. I do like to play champs with long range skillshot Q's though, like Blitz, Thresh and Morgana.

I'm talking from an adc point of view not a support one. Her q is on way too short of a cooldown, the skillshot is way too fucking wide and it doesn't cost enough mana. It's almost like a blitz pull, if you get hit by one you often either burn flash or die.

And to make it all better when my support finally gets a catch on their adc instead she just black shields and it doesn't matter

 

[zkylon]

if you have a weak heart and you love gambit

dont watch lcs

pity zkylon wasnt watching lcs

late game ryze op unstoppable tanky high damage yeah right.
1x or even 2x armor items isnt going to stop a long range carry from shredding you

you're sending me contradicting messages here

 

[BurnOutBrighter]

Maybe make it so enemies can destroy the lantern with targeted attacks (like a ward). People escaping will actually have to commit to escaping instead of staying in combat until their HP gets low and zipping out for free. Thresh players would have to be smarter about where they place the lantern, putting it a little further back instead of right in the middle of the teamfights. And teams with quick reflexes could destroy the lantern and secure a kill on a stranded enemy.

 

[brian!]

i dunno maybe its a lee sin thing but when I get thresh hooked or lantern sad I don't usually blame his kit

 

[Snowman]

thresh is definitely good but he's not exactly broken right now

 

[Pancakes]

Next champ confirmed to be a support designed by Wrekz. Who else has he designed?

Awwwww yus.

 

[Boken]

i only blame myself when i get thresh hooked it iz so telegrafhed

but when thresh is 1500 range away and throws a lantern 2 someone who is gettin killed n i cant do anything bout that i jsut think wow lantern is super lame

its dum. unlike all other defensive utility, thresh lanterns have very little interaction with the attackers. heals n shields just buy the person time, knockback/slows/other cc require u to be in range to use the spell. a defensive thresh lantern is basically a transaction between thresh and the victim - for that little interaction, the benefit it provides is immense - potential 1500 range displace at very high speed.

make the pull speed get affected by slows, maybe or make them unable to use it when cc'd (wtf is that), make the lantern destroyable, but srsly. let the enemy team play with it too.

 

[brian!]

i mean it's just a + attribute in the decisions im supposed to make
can i kill this dood in time or not
do i wanna blow summoners going after some guy who can get picked up etc

like yeah when someone gets lanterned in front of me im like fuk, but im not like fuk thresh

 

[Orochinagis]

I think it might be that Osiris looking champion from a while back.

Mmm egipcian support sounds nice, maybe a relative of nasus or Renekton

 

[Snowman]

my solution to the lantern is to make enemies be able to use it too, would be so good

 

[brian!]

itd be really great if one time thresh threw his lantern towards a guy and a couple of souls
and the souls get dragged back and the guy gets sucked into the lantern

 

[Ferrio]

I liked my idea of the latern only being clickable by the person it lands on with a time limit how long it's clickable.

 

[drawkcaB]

i only blame myself when i get thresh hooked it iz so telegrafhed

but when thresh is 1500 range away and throws a lantern 2 someone who is gettin killed n i cant do anything bout that i jsut think wow lantern is super lame

its dum. unlike all other defensive utility, thresh lanterns have very little interaction with the attackers. heals n shields just buy the person time, knockback/slows/other cc require u to be in range to use the spell. a defensive thresh lantern is basically a transaction between thresh and the victim - for that little interaction, the benefit it provides is immense - potential 1500 range displace at very high speed.

make the pull speed get affected by slows, maybe or make them unable to use it when cc'd (wtf is that), make the lantern destroyable, but srsly. let the enemy team play with it too.

I'd be neat if you could destroy the lattern. Code it like a zyra plant or something.

 

[kiunchbb]

i mean it's just a + attribute in the decisions im supposed to make
can i kill this dood in time or not
do i wanna blow summoners going after some guy who can get picked up etc

like yeah when someone gets lanterned in front of me im like fuk, but im not like fuk thresh

That's too much thinking and anti fun, it is easier to just blow everything and punch your monitor.

Just get all the scaling cdr runes so you can do it as often as possible.

 

[brian!]

maybe im conflating op and anti-fun
cuz i think lane soraka is ridic

 

[zkylon]

Awwwww yus.

what else did wreckz do

what else T_T

 

[Boken]

what else did wreckz do

what else T_T

nothing, hes new

 

[zkylon]

so why is that exciting

 

[Boken]

new people are exciting

 

[dimb]

maybe im conflating op and anti-fun
cuz i think lane soraka is ridic

You're still upset about that Rene vs. Soraka top game.

 

[Ferrio]

Any supports with gapclosers? They could have a gapcloser support..

Oh wait thresh does...

 

[brian!]

ppl said renekton was op early i was lied to

 

[zkylon]

new people are exciting

pfffffffff

i hope zeronis designs it

maybe vi's second lost sister

Any supports with gapclosers? They could have a gapcloser support..

Oh wait thresh does...

lizzy?

edit: holy shit i'm dumb

 

[zer0das]

ppl said renekton was op early i was lied to

His ult got hit which hurt him pretty badly, and the whole toplane meta has shifted quite a bit. I generally do well with him in lane still, but its really freaking hard to translate that into winning if the rest of your team is terrible now.

Least that's how I feel.

 

[brian!]

no he's still really good it's just that soraka doesn't lose lane
and scales better
and team fights better

 

[zkylon]

maybe karma with the ult shield?

 

[Stone Ocean]

Renekton is still pretty much the best if the enemy team doesn't pick Ryze or Soraka

 

[drawkcaB]

Oh wait thresh does...

Yeah, but it's optional and saddled with a shitty 1.5 second stun. How the hell wants that? Balance.

 

[Stone Ocean]

Any supports with gapclosers? They could have a gapcloser support..

Oh wait thresh does...

Thresh, Leona, Ali

 

[brian!]

gragas

 

[drawkcaB]

Holy shit Soraka top is obnoxious vs. melee.

Spoiler

I want to learn Soraka top.

 

[Snowman]

Holy shit Soraka top is obnoxious vs. melee.

Spoiler

I want to learn Soraka top.

I don't get how it works top at all? Surely to do anything you have to push the lane super hard and then you just die to ganks?

 

[Stone Ocean]

I don't get how it works top at all? Surely to do anything you have to push the lane super hard and then you just die to ganks?

You only Q if the guy tries something usually, otherwise it's banana town

 

[WesternHeretic]

I don't get how it works top at all? Surely to do anything you have to push the lane super hard and then you just die to ganks?

You can always silence the CC coming from ganks, and just swag walk out.

 

[drawkcaB]

I don't get how it works top at all? Surely to do anything you have to push the lane super hard and then you just die to ganks?

Well, I was singed, so early levels were insanely rough. And it was my first singed game in ages. That's blind pick for you!

 

[Boken]

I don't get how it works top at all? Surely to do anything you have to push the lane super hard and then you just die to ganks?

good warding saves you

soraka is much better mid, but works top in solo q because teams r uncoordinated n junglers r weird

 

[Orochinagis]

So I am playing some ARAM the random champions are pretty much destroying my team against nearly full tanks enemy champions