Janna becoming popular again has more to do with what's going on in other lanes, and less to do with other supports receiving nerfs.
League of Legends |OT7| She Ezreal To Me, Dammit!
- Thread starter PhillipCostigan
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They've been somewhat moving in that direction by increasing this AA range and Vorpal Spikes AoE width with his size, i.e. stacks. Could go even further by adding more stack related benefits to Q and W.
You have the most success with him as a mage because he's essentially an anti-caster. Long ass silence matched with tanky stats to negate burst. When they finally take a look at him I suspect they'll push him further into that niche sort of like, "vs. double AP comp? Pick Cho'Gath!".
For Trundle they added an on-hit mini-slow to his Q to give him a bit more sticking power on top of his E and W and they changed his W field from reducing CC effects to enhancing all health regen sources. He may have gotten a base stat change here or there and some numbers changes to Q and W, can't remember. It was quite a while ago.
But yeah, it was mostly about making the skills synergize better with how the champion plays. Which is why I think Cho will get a similar treatment. There's nothing inherently bad about the kit, but doing stuff like making rupture PBAoE and adjusting the skill accordingly (less CC, less delay) as opposed to a skillshot would clean him up some.
dimb said:
While true, this is mostly in regards to competitive play.
When it comes to solo queue, Janna has had a win rate well above 50% for many months now, well before the ADC itemization changes even. So Jeff-DSA is quite right, she's been a strong pick for a long time now. I suppose next we'll be pretending that Rammus being so good has anything to do with the repeated nerfs to Elise, Kha, and Lee Sin, back when his win rate was a pitiful 53%.
PhillipCostigan
Member
I mean, I (along with a couple of others) predicted the Janna resurgence at Worlds:
It's pretty obvious when Janna is going to be a strong pick. You look at what comps are being played and what champions are being picked and see if Janna works or not.
If people told you she was bad she was probably bad at the time.
Unless you mean soda cop and stuff saying she was boring? That doesn't mean bad.
I'm pretty sure that's what I was saying.
Didn't even mention other supports being nerfed :/
Galio am cry
Yeah, I mixed you up with another post. Whoops.
PhillipCostigan
Member
no problem buddy 8)
I'm not even sure what Galio's supposed niche is. Yeah, his passive makes him resistant to AP mages, but I wouldn't call him a straight counter. Shame no one plays him and he's not toxic. It'll take forever before he gets reworked.
i feel if anything they should make his silence be pbaoe (think blitz ult) since how it works now is kinda wonky, specially if you want to use it reactively (say zed ults you)
also i think they should prolly replace his e with something a bit more high impact, like a ms buff or something.
i dunno, i feel like cho should be a straight tank or "ap bruiser" but all my memories of playing him was like bursting people with like a glass cannon build
PhillipCostigan
Member
he's supposed to be a utility anti-AP mage but his kit is kinda rough
well, not kinda. really rough.
I wonder how much better Galio would be if he was ranged.
PBAoEs don't have a huge amount of outplay compared to the cone, can't imagine Riot would ever want to put a silence on that. And yeah, Cho should be a tank. Huge hulking scary Tyranid/Spawn type champion - that shits a tank.
Costy said:
Holy shit just had flashbacks that Galio's original tag was as a support.
Ahhhhn ders
Or
And ers
Workaholics
(People constantly said his name wrong. He yelled, it's Ahn ders! I have a hard "On".)
Galio needs his Q's projectile speed bumped up a notch, and his ult could probably stand to be .5 seconds longer. Maybe his E could be a little wider/longer or needs its cast time removed, but it still has its uses. Other than that, he's fine as a utility mid, tank top, or occasional support. Even as it stands now, his ult is an absolutely tremendous counter-engage tool that'll lead you to seeing entire teamfights where the enemy team actually won't burn any of their CC just because they know that you'll ruin it for them, and you end up zoning the entire team like some walking Rumble ult.
If you're one of those people constantly bitching about Ryze, pick Galio into him sometime and see what happens. But no points in E until 8!
He does slay in ARAM.
If you're one of those people constantly bitching about Ryze, pick Galio into him sometime and see what happens. But no points in E until 8!
He does slay in ARAM.
My friend creams his pants whenever he gets galio in aram because more likely than not the enemy team will consist of aram only accounts that bought ap mages during their various times of being over powered for aram
Oh, I see. It's the second one. I have not watched that series.
Honestly, I like most of Cho's kit. The theme of Cho'gath is basically playing Godzilla -- once you scale, you shake the earth and literally eat other champions for breakfast. Dealing with Mundo (the Hulk, obv) inspires disbelief. Dealing with Cho'gath inspires terror.
So personally I'm happy with both Q and W as terror tools. They're unwieldy, but they're huge CCs, viscerally and in terms of how much space they actually control. The things that really don't fit are his E and his passive. I'm really not sure what his E is for -- I mean, it makes his trades scale with AP and gives him a little more waveclear, but I don't really see why he needs those things. And his passive is just another lackluster sustain passive, one of the worse ones.
Here's my Cho rework:
* Reduce the AP ratio on Q. Q's AoE size starts smaller than it is now, but scales in size with Feast stacks.
* Instead of its current behavior, E is basically Kayle's E, with no range boost. While it's active, Cho's melee attacks do AoE damage around the target and have an AP ratio. AoE size scales with Feast.
* Remove or reduce AP ratio on R. (To keep mage Cho from getting out of control.)
* His passive does...something else. I dunno. Either something to keep him in lane that is a little more interesting (and mana-effective) than "last hitting is good", or something to make him really scary to stand next to in teamfights.
yea i kinda hate galio lol
yeah i like your take on him
btw if changes like yours were to happen i'd make it so he lost a third of his stacks rather than half when he dies. i like the idea of tying up stuff to his size but i think as he is right now is super feast or famine and a weak cho has too much trouble keeping his stacks
so i'd give him better base stats, make his stacks maybe less powerful (like less hp per stack) but easier to keep
tho i dunno, the idea of killing godzilla and now he takes time to ramp back up is also pretty good.
tanks are hard
How about he no longer loses stacks, but only gains size when eating a champion or epic monster (drag or Baron). Reduce max hp gain, introduce a separate CD, and/or increase the stack count if necessary. Eating a regular minion or any other jungle monster just does a regular heal.
Kotetsu534
Member
I think Cho's E is for jungling clear speed (or, at least, that's the main meaningful use case for it). Cho will probably never be a relevant jungler again with his current kit though - he can't hope to deal with Lee, Elise, Kha, etc. in brawling or invading, gank any laner able to jump his Rupture, or engage fights as effectively as Amumu.
Cho also has a problem that he gets naturally outscaled by maneouverability and increased DPS as the game goes on - his Q is actually fairly hard to escape when you have 325 movespeed as a starting AD carry, but with 410+ late game it should be considered a huge error to ever be struck by it without already being CC'd. His cooldowns are inordinately high for a tanky CC type who isn't doing much when he's not CCing people, so while they're down he just gets kited and blown up. And he's inherently snowbally due to his Feast stack dynamic - if he's behind and dying, he loses that part of his kit, but if he's dominating, he becomes unbelievably monstrous.
I'm no game designer, but how about these changes:
- Q gets marginally faster with each point.
- Increase W's range length-wise but decrease its width slightly. Make graphic match hitbox.
- E is reworked. Toggle for either increased AS or MS (or anything - just let it help his jungling speed and let it do something that doesn't involve standing still and auto-attacking people).
- Do something with his R's stacking mechanic so that dying doesn't ruin his game.
Cho also has a problem that he gets naturally outscaled by maneouverability and increased DPS as the game goes on - his Q is actually fairly hard to escape when you have 325 movespeed as a starting AD carry, but with 410+ late game it should be considered a huge error to ever be struck by it without already being CC'd. His cooldowns are inordinately high for a tanky CC type who isn't doing much when he's not CCing people, so while they're down he just gets kited and blown up. And he's inherently snowbally due to his Feast stack dynamic - if he's behind and dying, he loses that part of his kit, but if he's dominating, he becomes unbelievably monstrous.
I'm no game designer, but how about these changes:
- Q gets marginally faster with each point.
- Increase W's range length-wise but decrease its width slightly. Make graphic match hitbox.
- E is reworked. Toggle for either increased AS or MS (or anything - just let it help his jungling speed and let it do something that doesn't involve standing still and auto-attacking people).
- Do something with his R's stacking mechanic so that dying doesn't ruin his game.
Mister Wilhelm
Member
Cho works best as a full AP mid, DFG and shit. Seriously.
His ratios are really good.
I only know two god tier cho players, and one of them insists he be played this way. The other plays him top with a wonky-ass build that just doesn't work for me, but he gets results so whatever.
His ratios are really good.
I only know two god tier cho players, and one of them insists he be played this way. The other plays him top with a wonky-ass build that just doesn't work for me, but he gets results so whatever.
Lone_Prodigy
Member
Feast on champion/epic monster: more stacks, higher CD.
Feast on any other enemy: fewer stacks, lower CD.
Ghost is Bad
Banned
at first i thought that we would lose but then i remembered i was in gold 3.
NCR Redslayer
NeoGAF's Vegeta
What the fuck was that? I play with my level 24 friend and It's like they were bots the whole time.
Ghost is Bad
Banned
no fuk lucian
I ban him every gaem
Ghost is Bad
Banned
it's the way the world is, sky is blue, grass is green, all udyr's are worthless afk farmers, and all yasuo players are d-bags.
Holy shit he was awesome. 9-0 and took every drag. They surrendered. Jeeeeeesus
I got carried so hard, haha
edit: http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1567726270/208446139 match history if anyone cares
I got carried so hard, haha
edit: http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1567726270/208446139 match history if anyone cares
Syph Medwes
Member
yes lol
(to be honest though that game shaved years off my life...a feeding support yi...never again)
Really?
Lol I've had that happen. That's the worst.
Mister Negative
Member
why did you build two borks
Syph Medwes
Member
it was very late gate and the other team was pushing after a team fight and i had a last whisper so i sold it and clicked the first thing i deemed an upgrade before rushing in to defend our base.
it wasn't a conscious decision haha definitely not
NCR Redslayer
NeoGAF's Vegeta
Cho's damage at top is a joke
I'm enjoying league of Sivir.
Pancakes
hot, steaming, as melted butter slips into the cracks, drizzled with sticky sweet syrup OH GOD
Fallen_Hero
Member
Good, it will finally be over.
Anyone know how many people are in Master tier right now?
Anyone know how many people are in Master tier right now?
having to be the three others players on a trick-sirchez duo has to be frustrating.
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