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[Newt]

a winrate that is modified heavily by it's lower pickrate.

I just think this is a misconception.


I guess I can agree with you. This is the problem with delving into the stats.

 

[V_Arnold]

I just think this is a misconception.

Same misconception that won games in SSFIV against top players with trollpicks like Gen or Adon, right?

 

[brian!]

yeah my initial asking was for ppl to use statistics to derive ideas and to think about them

i am not really into ppl doing a but look at these stats kappa post, and then the other person feeling kind of lost, it really reminds me of awful marketing ppl and politicians who know exactly what they are doing when they throw those things into ppls faces

like maybe this has to do with the difference between dota and league too in some way
where dota was always kind of character-centric and league was more best in role-centric

 

[Newt]

Same misconception that won games in SSFIV against top players with trollpicks like Gen or Adon, right?

This is just for league though. Even at a 1% pickrate, that's still a crazy amount of games.

 

[Type2]

I brought up those popular junglers to describe an environment where they are picked to a crazy extent; this is why I say don't use stats as a means to an end

like we don't have specific numbers, but here's like a really easy example
let's say the pickrate has increased greatly now compared to before when certain picks dominated like crazy; in this situation we have a winrate that is more accurate to describe solo q strength vs. a winrate that is modified heavily by it's lower pickrate. it's the same reason you have weird outliers when you search for high winrates with a low population/or high winrates with a low pick rate

the information you had before doesn't mean the same thing it does now

i dunno, every amumu I played against in high plat low diamond normals during s2/s3 w/ gaf got pooped on a lot because the conditions for amumu to do well (mainly map information, but also other things) were more scarce



I think it's more that they have easy (flashable) to land gamechanging skills; these are things that are easier to avoid in certain conditions and harder in others. this depends on whats being picked, how the game is being played, etc.

no one is saying they don't have strength that is embedded in their kit, it's just really odd to me to say that this is some consistent strength that has nothing to do with anything else
and it really gives ppl reading the thread the wrong idea and promotes this pls nerf riot reddit style thinking

I'm not one to comment on statistics which is what this arguement is over. I'm nearly pointing out the strengths in their kits which are brought to light in the current meta more so than usual.
Jungle is shittier now than it's ever been. Most strong invaders and counter junglers have been gutted and you can get away with the one spell carry champs.

 

[brian!]

I think we can all agree that in a game with a trillion ppl of varying skill levels it is hard to come away with something meaningful without diminishing the sample or making it more specific, esp. in a constantly changing game, the standardized fotm churner of the LCS, etc.

but I think it's great to think about something and find something grounded to back your statement up as long as it's not, look heimer has the best winrate in diamond, he is gud champ (i c u pankaks). its gota be, heimer has x going on for him, I find he works well against these sort of champs because of y, and by the way his winrate is the best in diamond today

I'm not one to comment on statistics which is what this arguement is over. I'm nearly pointing out the strengths in their kits which are brought to light in the current meta more so than usual.
Jungle is shittier now than it's ever been. Most strong invaders and counter junglers have been gutted and you can get away with the one spell carry champs.

i dunno if i can speak for newt, but I'm not really arguing over statistics, I think most ppl think they are easy to manipulate towards whatever conclusion u are trying to put forward, and also easy to argue against. they can be useful, but are not an actual argument or explanation

I'm mainly arguing against the idea that a champ is strong at a particular moment just because they are a strong champion and nothing else, and I see that line of thinking really spurring on the hordes of "nerf dis op, y didnt u ban tristana at worlds" ppl that have increasingly defined the game for me in the past year

 

[V_Arnold]

This is just for league though. Even at a 1% pickrate, that's still a crazy amount of games.

My point is that if you only get to fight an obscure champion once every....30 game, for example, then obviously you will not perform as well against him as, say, against a Lee Sin or Kha, or some well-known jungler. With the latter, you know what they can do, with the former, not so much.

 

[PhillipCostigan]

Lost my promos... 67 LP

wtf

that's an insane drop.

 

[Jeff-DSA]

Lost my promos... 67 LP

wtf

that's an insane drop.

Two wins and you're back though, right?

 

[brian!]

yeah champs that are picked less often have particular advantages
things with surprising dmg like brand and malz can be successful even though they have obvious weaknesses; they would be less successful if they were played all the time
this game is actually a lot of muscle memory

 

[Ferrio]

Two wins and you're back though, right?

Exactly what I said after losing my Silver I -> Gold V promos, then I wound up in Silver II. :|

 

[Ocho]

Am I the only one that thinks fiddles isn't an easy champ to play? Them ults bro, you gotta know how to play.

 

[PhillipCostigan]

I dislike the mechanic of losing a lot of LP if you lose a promo. Like, you should be put down to within one win of getting back there. 85 LP or so. You've shown you can get to promos but had some unlucky games (seriously, why couldn't I have had good teams ;_ and lost it. If you can win the next you're back in. even if you lose one you have a bit of cushion there. You should lose 25 LP maximum.

But losing 33 LP for it really sucks. It feels like shit for that to happen. 2 wins and I'm hopefully in, but...

 

[Newt]

Am I the only one that thinks fiddles isn't an easy champ to play? Them ults bro, you gotta know how to play.

I don't think his issue is his ult. It's his rng silence.

 

[brian!]

well I mean even "easy" champs have to be played properly, it's just that he can bring the ruckus in a pretty simple way
like flash terror silence is da business

they also don't think too much about pressure outside of ganks, like they dont tend to go for deeper wards for example unless some enemy has been wiped from the map, so it's easier to get into a more go for ganks and teamfight style

 

[drawkcaB]

The champions you mentioned didn't really become decent picks (except maybe Amumu) until Quill Coat was added and Golem therefore changed,

Nope, Quill coat changed nothing. Win rates for tank junglers have been steady going back at to least last Spring. I mean no offense at all, but whenever I see mention Quill Coat/new SotAG as a difference maker, it's a giant red flag that this person doesn't play jungle tanks, or jungle much at all for that matter. Hell, some champions you'd think would benefit from new SotAG

The biggest change quill coat brought to the game is that it made Riot realize the multiplicative effects of damage junglers and the spirit stone hp/mana regen passive which has been removed in favour of flat values for all jungle items in S5.

Am I the only one that thinks fiddles isn't an easy champ to play? Them ults bro, you gotta know how to play.

I think it's more accurate to say he requires different knowledge than other junglers. Ganking as volibear/skarner/rammus isn't massively different whereas a Fiddlesticks player needs to know which walls can be hoped to gank from a particular direction, etc.

 

[Fuzzery]

Fiddles is hard to play because if you don't have good vision control, he's very ineffective. Also, you can get caught and popped in 3 seconds

 

[Stone Ocean]

I dislike the mechanic of losing a lot of LP if you lose a promo. Like, you should be put down to within one win of getting back there. 85 LP or so. You've shown you can get to promos but had some unlucky games (seriously, why couldn't I have had good teams ;_ and lost it. If you can win the next you're back in. even if you lose one you have a bit of cushion there. You should lose 25 LP maximum.

But losing 33 LP for it really sucks. It feels like shit for that to happen. 2 wins and I'm hopefully in, but...

Didn't you go 1-3, though?

67 LP sounds fair considering you had 3 losses in a row, that's what, 15ish LP per loss? Your MMR should still be high.

 

[brian!]

amumu was def strong before quill coat, but the quill coat change harmed elise

yeah fidd inhabits a similar position with blitz where vision is king to success

 

[Nekofrog]

every fiddle i've ever gone against has had the RNG gods in his favor.

my fiddles always have the crow jump between the two minions back and forth that are there instead of the 5 champions all huddled next to each other

 

[Lone_Prodigy]

I dislike the mechanic of losing a lot of LP if you lose a promo. Like, you should be put down to within one win of getting back there. 85 LP or so. You've shown you can get to promos but had some unlucky games (seriously, why couldn't I have had good teams ;_ and lost it. If you can win the next you're back in. even if you lose one you have a bit of cushion there. You should lose 25 LP maximum.

But losing 33 LP for it really sucks. It feels like shit for that to happen. 2 wins and I'm hopefully in, but...

I remember reading a thread about this once, and the counter-argument was that you don't immediately get demoted when losing a game at 0 LP.

I don't think his issue is his ult. It's his rng silence.

What about Ryze's E?

 

[Fuzzery]

every fiddle i've ever gone against has had the RNG gods in his favor.

my fiddles always have the crow jump between the two minions back and forth that are there instead of the 5 champions all huddled next to each other

lern to rng

 

[Orochinagis]

Exactly what I said after losing my Silver I -> Gold V promos, then I wound up in Silver II. :|

Same here, I was at one win to enter silver V then I realized I dropped to bronze III, wtf

 

[Ferga]

I always buy at least 6 wards during laning phase when im jungle fiddle unless im snowballing hard.

Ward everything to prevent counterjungling.

Switch to red trinket asap and have a pink on me for most of the game to avoid ulting on a ward.

Hard as hell to pull off fiddle when 2 lanes are losing. The laner invades just wreck you.

And spirit stone will always beat quill on amumu.

 

[bidguy]

can anyone tell me which matchups are the most dangerous for nasus and why ? im talking about top 1vs1 laning

 

[Tizoc]

At 98 LP =O Thanks Sona~
http://matchhistory.eune.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/EUN1/1017158969/205390904

Mishaps here and there but my team was strong, they just solo-ed so much that they died a lot, lost baron or gave up Nexus for kills, ugh.
Only Udyr and Zilean were the sane ones.

 

[Ferrio]

can anyone tell me which matchups are the most dangerous for nasus and why ? im talking about top 1vs1 laning

Teemo, Gnar are two that come to mind. First because they're both ranged so they can punish him for trying to CS and kite him if need be. Teemo blinds, so that's missed Qs and Gnar has built in anti tank damage.

Probably the worst two I can think of being matched up against.

 

[Nekofrog]

darius, but most darius' tend to push their lane with Q and let you freefarm under tower. if they're smart and let the wave freeze you're kind of screwed.

 

[Stone Ocean]

can anyone tell me which matchups are the most dangerous for nasus and why ? im talking about top 1vs1 laning

Anything with heavy ranged harass / early game power that doesn't rely on attack speed to make you suffer, Gnar, Ryze, Teemo, Rumble, Panth, Riven...
Panth / Ryze are basically nightmare mode, never pick Nasus against them.

Your best bet is against tanks like Maokai since they'll give you room to farm, but if they have a strong early game jungler chances are you're fucked.

 

[Tizoc]

Quinn works against Nasus well at top but you gotta time your assaults on him. Eff his Slow though, how come it never slows them to a crawl when I use it >=/

 

[bidguy]

thx

what can i do to survive a lane like that ? i start with cloth +5 and rush frozen heart for armor+cdr.

 

[Ferrio]

thx

what can i do to survive a lane like that ? i start with cloth +5 and rush frozen heart for armor+cdr.

Flask + Health pots. Then build the appropriate defense. Either way you're going to be miserable.

Rex likes to suggest going AP nasus vs a teemo, but I've never tried it myself.

 

[Stone Ocean]

Start cloth 5 or flask, take HP regen quints with 21 defense masteries and pray you don't get shit on for the first few levels. Don't stay in lane with less than 50% HP and no pots, just recall immediatly.

By the time you get around 800 gold recall if you haven't yet and come back with a chain vest / negatron, then rush Frozen Heart / Spirit Visage. Then the lane gets considerably easier. Don't worry too much about stacks before you get some resistances, just try to get whatever gold you can. By the time you hit level 6 you should be able to fight back if you didn't get destroyed.

 

[bidguy]

alright last question. i have half ap/ad pages and a third one thats empty

should i complete the ap/ad pages first ? i wanted to get life steal quints for nasus since they would apply to his 10% passive. is a seperate page for him recommended if i want to main him or are standard pages enough ?

 

[brian!]

if you make the ad quint, ad red, armor/health yellow, mr blue page, you can use it for a lot of champs and it's fine on nasus

if you wanna get specific tho, he works well with cdr and hp regen, that lifesteal wont be as helpful in lane

 

[Stone Ocean]

You can get by with Nasus with a generic flat AD + resistances page, but I really, really recommend grabbing the flat health regen quints for him instead of Lifesteal. CDR blues is also good as long as you're not Vs AP, but you'll need two Nasus pages for that.

 

[Ferga]

can anyone tell me which matchups are the most dangerous for nasus and why ? im talking about top 1vs1 laning

Gnar - Go cry in a corner. You aint winning this lane no matter how hard you try. Speed and percent damage on ranged auto attacks. Nuff said

Ryze - difficult if you dont understand the match up. Once you get use to nasus and the mr build, ryze becomes insanely easy. Basically, this match up requiees you to lifesteal when his Q is on cooldown early game and pop pots constantly. I suggest a flask start. If you want to go standard dorans with a pot, make sure you dont screw up by being forced to back without 720 gold to buy negatron. Ideally you want to go negatron into spirit visage. But I've also found negatron into merc treads is also good when you have decent stacks. It lets you push him out of lane in trades.

Riven - people say she beats nasus. They are bad. Level1-2 riven will push. With ad and cdr runes and masteries, you will only miss 2 cs at most under tower. Go standard glacial shroud, kindlegem, chain vest and watch riven do nothing to you as you lifesteal her entire harass in 2Qs. Most important thing in this matchup is do not farm before the wave reaches tower at level 2. The hp you lose for 1cs is not worth it. Stay in exp range and wait. once you get glacial and chain vest, you should not die. If you do, its either you didnt ult early enough or you fought her when wither wore off. You dont want to tank minions and an unwithered riven no matter how much armour you have. Its too risky.

Mundo - annoying match up. His ad steroid and W destroys you when you run in to stack. This along with cleaver poke when youre farming at turret is really annoying. However, you wont die to him unless you get ganked. He will slow your stacking though.

Gragas and Nid- they are annoying but arent really meta anymore. Nid and grag just poke the shit out of you with mixed damage and have so much mobility that you cant trade back. Be thankful you arent playing in their meta.

Renekton - similar to riven. Farm under turret and dont lose too much hp at level 1 to 3. Renekton will kill you at level 3 if you are half or under. You outscale the shit out of him though. Just dont feed so much that his q takes off half your life. Match up is generally easier than riven since he doesnt stack AD. If you get enough armour and keep up in exp and gold, you wont die to him even if you screw up. Unless he goes full ad.

Teemo and vlad. Build chalice and max E. Im not joking. Ive done and won so many of these games in platinum and diamond. Your E takes off half their life. Push them out of lane like this and stack like usual.

 

[Tizoc]

http://www.surrenderat20.net/p/current-pbe-balance-changes.html

From reading this, I take it the Jungle stuff won't be part of the update?
Lame that they're changing Zliean's passive, blasted thing is barely a game changer =_=

 

[Stone Ocean]

http://www.surrenderat20.net/p/current-pbe-balance-changes.html

From reading this, I take it the Jungle stuff won't be part of the update?
Lame that they're changing Zliean's passive, blasted thing is barely a game changer =_=

The jungle stuff won't be for a few months until the preseason starts.

Also Zilean's passive is a big deal in competitive. Being able to hit certain power spikes ahead of the enemy or being able to keep up with experience as a top laner while sharing jungle XP for zero cost is bigger than it sounds.

 

[Ferga]

The fact that zilean affects other lanes without being there is not very balanced.

 

[Blizzard]

The fact that zilean affects other lanes without being there is not very balanced.

That really is a bit weird. Is that the last such global thingy since Janna's movespeed only helps nearby allies now?

 

[Ferrio]

That really is a bit weird. Is that the last such global thingy since Janna's movespeed only helps nearby allies now?

Teemo only one left with global passive.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

Hmm, bout to face an Anivia mid. I've only fought her a couple times. Wonder if she'll rek me, I forget.

 

[Pandaman]

The jungle stuff won't be for a few months until the preseason starts.

uh. preseason starts in a week.

preseason stuff was removed because 4.19 is this week.
we'll probably get the first preseason patch and the summoner rift beta rollout in 2 weeks.

 

[Stone Ocean]

uh. preseason starts in a week.

preseason stuff was removed because 4.19 is this week.
we'll probably get the first preseason patch and the summoner rift beta rollout in 2 weeks.

I mean when they deploy the actual preseason patch. It usually doesn't come with the actual start of the preseason, and considering 4.19 is this week and 4.20 should be heavier on content - considering the Fabulist is picking up steam on the BR forums, the new dark mist champion might be soon - so I doubt it'll be out in two weeks if they actually ship the jungle changes in 4.20.

 

[Quenk]

I mean when they deploy the actual preseason patch. It usually doesn't come with the actual start of the preseason, and considering 4.19 is this week and 4.20 should be heavier on content - considering the Fabulist is picking up steam on the BR forums, the new dark mist champion might be soon - so I doubt it'll be out in two weeks if they actually ship the jungle changes in 4.20.

The first patches of preseasons 3 and 4 were December 4th and November 20th. We can probably expect it to hit a few weeks after this season ends.

 

[Jaladinozozo]

Our Azir robbed me of my Hexakill on Ryze =\

http://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/1618326816/204747376

 

[Stone Ocean]

The first patches of preseasons 3 and 4 were December 4th and November 20th. We can probably expect it to hit a few weeks after this season ends.

I could have sworn that the first preseason patch last season was like late december lol

I guess I was confused since the season was initially planned to end in October. Yeah, jungle stuff should be out by the end of the month, I'm dumb. Weird that they don't seem to be doing anything about masteries this season.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

Idk what's going on, all my recent TF games have been ridiculous. Feels like I'm playing against bots.

 

[Barack Lesnar]

11-2-4
16-7-10
6-3-6
14-8-15
15-3-8
8-3-2
7-4-6

Only the 15-3-8 was a loss, so 6 out of the last 7.


About to vs Akali in mid, it's usually 50/50 with her. I either do great or do shit.