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[Nev]

League is probably the best "starter" MOBA around.

Starter. As if it's a mere step to the "real" MOBA? What is that then? Duels Of The Autotarget 2?

Lol is probably the best MOBA period because they were smart enough to get rid of the annoying impositions of the RTS nature of Dota, mainly autotarget spells and input lag/turn animations which are laughable to mantain in any 2010+ game.

 

[Kane Zakharov]

Starter. As if it's a mere step to the "real" MOBA? What is that then? Duels Of The Autotarget 2?

Lol is probably the best MOBA period because they were smart enough to get rid of the annoying impositions of the RTS nature of Dota, mainly autotarget spells and input lag/turn animations which are laughable to mantain in any 2010+ game.

there's no need to be upset Nev.

This may come as a shock to you, but some people prefer the way Dota 2 plays and rather enjoy the mechanics put into place that you think is annoying and unnecessary. It's almost like people have different opinions and whatnot.

 

[Nev]

I'm not upset at the fact that some people may enjoy autotarget spells and input lag (There are Killzone 2 fans after all), though I don't think anyone can "enjoy" these two; tolerate might be a more appropriated word. What upsets me is the way some people talk about the "real" or "core" MOBA refering to Dota 2. Can't decide if they're more laughable than upsetting tho.

 

[sleepykyo]

Starter. As if it's a mere step to the "real" MOBA? What is that then? Duels Of The Autotarget 2?

Lol is probably the best MOBA period because they were smart enough to get rid of the annoying impositions of the RTS nature of Dota, mainly autotarget spells and input lag/turn animations which are laughable to mantain in any 2010+ game.

Well, mid was asking for a first moba to get into. So he was asking what for the best starter moba.

 

[Negaduck]

League has a lower skill floor than dota. That's not opinion that's fact. I won't get into which has a higher skill cieling cause I don't think that' breeds positive discussion (especially in a league sentric league).

I enjoy both games fairly equally and don't mind targeted spells at all. I actually don't want then to take all of the targeted spells out of league.

 

[Edwardo]

The best skin too. <3

Rolled with the warrior princess skin the next and posted an even better 11/1/9 statline. Unfortunately I lost the next bunch of games, not a Sivir though. I'm starting to really like her again.

 

[Deleted member 77995]

Sorry if this has been asked before or if there is a better thread for it (I havne't find a general MOBA type thread).

I'm pretty much brand new to MOBAs. I've played around with the tutorial in LoL, DOTA 2 and Smite, but that's about it. I always got scared off by the vast amount of builds, champions, items to buy, roles, and out of the game build type stuff you do (forgot what it's called). Plus, the toxic environment doesn't help either.

In any case, it's always been a goal of mine to learn MOBAs one day. So I'm curious, is LoL the best place for that? I've heard about Smite, Strife, Infinite Crisis and various other MOBAs but I'm not sure if there one that is a good place for a new player to really get their feet wet and start learning the game.

If LoL is a good place to learn, any tips/suggestions on guides or websites to use? I've found a ton of random stuff online and on Youtube but I'm not sure if there is one specific site or location that is highly recommended for new players.

Thanks!

Awesomenauts

 

[bidguy]

Awesomenauts

lol i could finally appreciate that game after i got used to league of legends

i played it totally wrong and got wrecked almost every game lol

 

[Nev]

League has a lower skill floor than dota. That's not opinion that's fact.

Please stop using the term "skill" when you're stating facts because you're using it wrong. There's absolutely nothing in Dota 2 that requires more skill (by skill we generally mean mechanical ability, reflexes etc.) than Lol. I think what you mean is "knowledge", as in Dota 2 has more items and stuff to learn and therefore it takes longer to know how to play the game, in which case it's 100% true. It has nothing to do with skill though.

In terms of pure skill, Lol >>> Dota 2. There just aren't champions like Zed, Azir, Cassiopeia or Draven in Dota. And please don't quote champions that get more units to control, that has nothing to do with mechanical skill but unit management, which is an RTS thing. League is constantly evolving from the RTS mod that was/is Dota.

They can keep all of their item complexity and multiple unit management, I'll take this:

 

[Haly]

Micro isn't a mechanical skill you heard it here first.

(I think it's funny you'd mention Zed and Azir. One is a high burst, high mobility champion with one of the few true disjoints in League, and the other a way of introducing micro into League's gameplay. Both of them are more in line with how modern DOTA 2 heroes are designed than anything in League's history.)

LoL is a good place to start. As others have said, it's easier to pick up and play and you 'll be able to start enjoying yourself much faster. Its design paradigms are more in line with modern games than DOTA 2, whose outdated control system requires some getting used to for people unfamiliar with the genre.

The community is also less toxic at the beginner levels than in DOTA 2, because there isn't really a beginner bracket. It's all one big pool of ragers and flamers.

 

[Ocho]

Testing my stream with Fallen and others.

http://www.twitch.tv/gaf_ocho

Using nvidia shadow play, quality may suck.

 

[Nev]

Micro isn't a mechanical skill you heard it here first.

Yea it is a mechanical skill from RTS games. The hard thing is to know where and when to move your Meepos, selecting them and right clicking the destination is not hard.

Btw I forgot kiting in Dota 2 is close to non-existent because of turn rates. Lmao. I'm having headache remembering the horrible feeling of input lag in a supposedly competitive game.

 

[Leezard]

(I think it's funny you'd mention Zed and Azir. One is a high burst, high mobility champion with one of the few true disjoints in League, and the other a way of introducing micro into League's gameplay. Both of them are more in line with how modern DOTA 2 heroes are designed than anything in League's history.)

Zed is old at this point. If modern Dota 2 heroes are in line with that design, I think those heroes are emulating League's design rather than the other way around. I agree that some modern League heroes seem to be inspired by Dota, but still keep League-specific elements (skillshots etc).

 

[Negaduck]

Yea it is a mechanical skill from RTS games. The hard thing is to know where and when to move your Meepos, selecting them and right clicking the destination is not hard.

Btw I forgot kiting in Dota 2 is close to non-existent because of turn rates. Lmao. I'm having headache remembering the horrible feeling of input lag in a supposedly competitive game.

Kiting is very much existant in dota 2. Fog of war and juking is one of the biggest things in dota.

Next you'll tell me you hate dark souls because of the animation priority and because it doesn't play like bayonetta.

Also if you believe that just click attacking with meepo is all you do then that just shows ignorance of the fact instead of having an actual discussion on the matter.

I understand you really like league but seem to be the sort of person that won't listen to anything that mentions that league isn't the best game ever created of all time. (I've talked to people about mvc3 who are like this and don't like people saying mvc2 does things better).

 

[Haly]

Btw I forgot kiting in Dota 2 is close to non-existent because of turn rates.

u wot m8

Dude, League's archetypal kiter was a straight up Dota hero clone.

 

[Negaduck]

Double post:


Also the defensiveness of some reaction posts seem to think that I'm saying there is no skill in league. Don't misinterpret, I've never said that, just that learning league is much easier that learning dota.

I've played both for around 10 years (league of course a bit less but still since closed beta) so I'm coming to these discussions with an unbiased opinion as well as thousands and thousands of hours experience in both games.

 

[sleepykyo]

Please stop using the term "skill" when you're stating facts because you're using it wrong. There's absolutely nothing in Dota 2 that requires more skill (by skill we generally mean mechanical ability, reflexes etc.) than Lol. I think what you mean is "knowledge", as in Dota 2 has more items and stuff to learn and therefore it takes longer to know how to play the game, in which case it's 100% true. It has nothing to do with skill though.

In terms of pure skill, Lol >>> Dota 2. There just aren't champions like Zed, Azir, Cassiopeia or Draven in Dota. And please don't quote champions that get more units to control, that has nothing to do with mechanical skill but unit management, which is an RTS thing. League is constantly evolving from the RTS mod that was/is Dota.

They can keep all of their item complexity and multiple unit management, I'll take this:

By skill you mean mechanical ability. Chess is a game of skill yet it requires absolutely zero manual dexterity.

 

[Nev]

Kiting is very much existant in dota 2. Fog of war and juking is one of the biggest things in dota.

That's not kiting as generally known, that's juking, and it's also more prevalent in LoL because most of the spells can be dodged/juked and there are bushes and (also) fog of war. The only heroes I remember being able to do something remotely close to kiting were Drow Ranger and Viper, and still it's not the same and in LoL everyone can potentially do it.

 

[Deleted member 77995]

I like all mobas.

This entire argument is silly. "My toy is better than yours!!!11"

 

[clemenx]

I like all mobas.

This entire argument is silly. "My toy is better than yours!!!11"

Yeah same I don't get why these MOBA discussions turn so aggresive. I actually can't get into playing Dota but I like spectating it all the same.

 

[Haly]

Drow Ranger and Viper

Crystal Maiden?
Storm Spirit??
Windrunner???

It sounds like you have a very surface level understanding of what DOTA 2 heroes can do. Kiting works specifically because turn rates exist, since people can't turn around instantly. Animation cancelling combined makes kiting possible on almost every ranged hero, before you even factor in skills.

that's juking, and it's also more prevalent in LoL

Trees let you juke almost anywhere on the map, not just designated "juking" areas with brush, or when Flash is off CD.

 

[Deleted member 77995]

6-1 with J4 in ranked feels really good

But we'll ignore that I totally got carried in 2 of those wins.

 

[sleepykyo]

Yeah same I don't get why these MOBA discussions turn so aggresive. I actually can't get into playing Dota but I like spectating it all the same.

Outside of Nev, it was fairly civil regardless of whether they recommended Dota or LoL as an entry point.

 

[Nev]

Crystal Maiden?
Storm Spirit??
Windrunner???

It sounds like you have a very surface level understanding of what DOTA 2 heroes can do. Kiting works specifically because turn rates exist, since people can't turn around instantly. Animation cancelling combined makes kiting possible on almost every ranged hero, before you even factor in skills.

My level of understanding of what Dota 2 heroes can do is enough to know that these heroes can only "kite" because they have either hard CC (Crystal Maiden and her Taric on-demand snare on top of AoE slow), incredibly strong mobility spells (Storm Spirit with his roids Ahri ult) or effortless self-peel (Windranger).

You play Lol and you know what I mean by kiting so you also know it's not a widespread mechanic in Dota like it is in Lol, where every champion can effectively do it without any built-in dash/CC.

 

[Ocho]

I hate my life. Fuck AP Trynds.

 

[Kane Zakharov]

I hate my life. Fuck AP Trynds.

you got rekt m8

 

[Deleted member 77995]

I hate my life. Fuck AP Trynds.

That was beyond stupid to watch.

 

[Edwardo]

I hate my life. Fuck AP Trynds.

They still exist?

 

[Haly]

in which every champion can effectively do it without any built-in dash/CC.

This assertion is bizarre.

The list of champions without mobility or some sort of slow is far shorter than the one with mobility and/or a slow. It's a baseline for most champions in the game. Mordekaiser is one of the few exceptions, and, as expected, he can't kite for shit. Akali pre-6 is another, although she has her own style of hit-and-run. Almost everyone else can kite because they have slows/mobility.

I don't have a video handy but you can kite in Dota 2 with nothing more than a ranged attack and animation cancelling specifically because turn rates exist and there are few early game mobility options. Most melee heroes are out of luck here, obviously, but that's just what the melee/range dichotomy means in Dota.

 

[Lone_Prodigy]

http://i.imgur.com/n44kq17.png

Back to where I started the season. Good place to stop.

 

[Nev]

This assertion is bizarre.

The list of champions without mobility or some sort of slow is far shorter than the one with mobility and/or a slow. It's a baseline for most champions in the game. Mordekaiser is one of the few exceptions, and, as expected, he can't kite for shit. Almost everyone else can kite because they have slows/mobility.

Ehh... No. You can definitely kite without using a single spell with most adcs once you've got a certain amount of attack speed. Of course slow/mobility spells help, but it's not because of them that they can kite, which is exactly how it is in Dota 2.

 

[Haly]

a certain amount of items.

Are we ignoring Dota items now?

attack speed.

And movespeed. Which, again, is exactly how it works in Dota 2 with Phase Boots, Treads, and Mask of Madness.

I think there's a misunderstanding somewhere here. I consider kiting to be any kind of aggression that keeps the target at a set distance from yourself. As in, you're the kite flyer, your attacks/spells are the line, and the target is the kite. Thus, all ADCs can kite from level 1 because they can attack and move. That's just a natural part of being ranged.

 

[brian!]

i've played both of these games and I don't remember ever seeing a kite

 

[PhillipCostigan]

i always though kite flying was a term we use when politicians leak pre budget information to see which way the wind blows

 

[Haly]

You're missing the point of turn rates on a fundamental level. Turn rates and animations factor heavily into how well any hero can kite or resist being kited. It's a balance thing as much as any other aspect of hero design, like being ranged or melee, having hard CC or soft CC, having mobility or shields. As evidence, there are many examples of heroes (Bat, QoP, Void, Jakiro to name a few) that went up or down in competitive play because their animations/turn rates were tweaked.

I can totally understand not liking that turn rates exist as a point of balance, but it's flat out wrong to say that turn rates makes kiting "impossible' in Dota 2. Because that's what they're there for, so some heroes are more vulnerable to being kited than others.

i've played both of these games and I don't remember ever seeing a kite

Kite.

 

[PhillipCostigan]

Kite.

that guy should probably stop playing Lycan

 

[Haly]

that guy should probably stop playing Lycan

Most people should stop playing Lycan.

Cancerous hero with dota kit, like Yasuo, plz ban.

 

[PhillipCostigan]

Most people should stop playing Lycan.

Cancerous hero with dota kit, like Yasuo, plz ban.

isn't Lycan that hero that was complete shit tier until they buffed like 1 item (Necronomicon?) and then became OP?

I assume he also got kit buffs or something but still

 

[brian!]

he was pretty strong in dota 1

 

[garath]

Yay. Broke my 5 game losing streak. Fiddle jungle. I'm not even that good at him. He's strong.

 

[PhillipCostigan]

Yay. Broke my 5 game losing streak. Fiddle jungle. I'm not even that good at him. He's strong.

yo fuck fiddle. fiddle and rammus are the only junglers I fear (hue)

 

[Haly]

isn't Lycan that hero that was complete shit tier until they buffed like 1 item (Necronomicon?) and then became OP?

Nah, it was mostly the kit buffs.

Case in point. Necronomicon is now a hefty liability, and fast pushes were nerfed. Lycan's kit was also nerfed.

Still strong? Still strong.

 

[PhillipCostigan]

Nah, it was mostly the kit buffs.

Case in point. Necronomicon is now a hefty liability, and fast pushes were nerfed. Lycan's kit was also nerfed.

Still strong? Still strong.

yeah I remember seeing it banned like almost every game at TI4 but I managed to catch a game where it got through and murdered everything

 

[Haly]

Well TI4 is special. It was the heyday of fast push, and the reason why the grand finals averaged like 15 minutes per game.

Lycan was one of the worst offenders that time, and Icefrog slapped him silly with the bat afterwards.

He still gets picked now and then but he's not overwhelming like before.

 

[Negaduck]

Yeah lycan used to get the ban every time. I always find it interesting to check in with competative dota every now and then to see what the new pick/bans are.

 

[PhillipCostigan]

Yeah I remember liking TI3 a lot more than TI4. Like I've hardly played any Dota but I remember getting hyped watching TI3 games and being indifferent about TI4

kinda like the opposite of Season 3 and 2014 Worlds in League, where S3 was ok but this year's (final aside I guess, although the spectacle there was great so it was still cool) was awesome from start to (almost) finish.

 

[Orochinagis]

http://i.imgur.com/n44kq17.png

Back to where I started the season. Good place to stop.

Leona is an auto ban here in bronze =(

 

[Haly]

Anyway both games are dumb.

EG vs C9 Grand Finals are on in HOTS, the latest MOBA set to take the world by storm!!!

 

[Peanut Butter]

yo fuck fiddle. fiddle and rammus are the only junglers I fear (hue)

No fear of Vi or Amumu? Props.

 

[PhillipCostigan]

Anyway both games are dumb.

EG vs C9 Grand Finals are on in HOTS, the latest MOBA set to take the world by storm!!!

:lol

(i'm sorry bind I still love you)

No fear of Vi or Amumu? Props.

nah, they're much easier to play around tbh.