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League of Legends: Season 4 World Championship (Sep 17 - Oct 19)
- Thread starter Edwardo
- Start date
With just a Shiv, does any other ADC reach attack speed levels of Tristana? During the duration of two turret shots, she's able to shoot 4/5 shots. And she had the Lulu shields so no health was lost.
Tristana wasn't the sole reason NWS won but she was a core component. The others were the Thresh hooks and Alliance unable to take advantage of their lead. NWS didn't win the game, Alliance lost it.
Sigh another Lucian versus a Tristana. For fucks sake, why do they even bother if they can't even take advantage of their early power.
But don't worry guys, Tristana's ult got nerfed. That'll tone her down. Fuck you Riot.
Tristana wasn't the sole reason NWS won but she was a core component. The others were the Thresh hooks and Alliance unable to take advantage of their lead. NWS didn't win the game, Alliance lost it.
Sigh another Lucian versus a Tristana. For fucks sake, why do they even bother if they can't even take advantage of their early power.
But don't worry guys, Tristana's ult got nerfed. That'll tone her down. Fuck you Riot.
Well, it's true. In this very game Alliance got a huge lead they should have pressed but instead got picked off by Thresh 3 times to feed Tristana.
Yeah it sucks that she gets to max range and just presses Q to win but she definitely didn't got to that point alone. I'd say Lulu's shields were MVP as well.
Trist always was one of the strongest late game ADC since she was released.
PhillipCostigan
Member
Caitlyn has the range, but she doesn't have the massive attack speed steroid, anywhere near as much safety and can't capitalise on fights and picks with resets.
If they had Caitlyn they would have lost this game.
The TF ults were also fucking horrible after mid game. There was some promise in the split push when they got the bottom inhib tower and the rest of Alliance was able to hold their own in the top lane but after that, it was downhill from there.
And yeah, her fucking jump. Not only does she have the safety of the reset in her jump, Her jump doing the full animation regardless of any CC is so frustrating. The only exception I remember knocking her out of it was the Thresh flay.
And yeah, her fucking jump. Not only does she have the safety of the reset in her jump, Her jump doing the full animation regardless of any CC is so frustrating. The only exception I remember knocking her out of it was the Thresh flay.
Would Cait have the same all in (atk speed buff) or chase potential? Like the reverse e is nice and the snipe is good but unreliable (can be intercepted) for picking off stragglers. In a general sense.
In this game, I do agree that Alliance didn't exploit their advantages enough.
edit:
They might have had a better laning phase though. How does Cait v Lucian go?
Kotetsu534
Member
Alliance ran Irelia and TF solo lanes so they had very little threat late game when the enemy team is grouped. You don't need Tristana to outscale that (put Kog'Maw or Caitlyn in there and I guarantee NJWS would have no problem breaking Alliance's towers in a similar timeframe). The main reason Alliance lost is that they gifted three consecutive picks around the 20 minute mark leading to lost vision control over dragon, leading to towers and dragons going to NJWS despite them being behind. The game should have been ended before Tristana got three items, never mind 4 or 5.
Froggen destroyed lane phase though. Hope that was just NJWS being rusty against TF. They pushed down his tower as fast as they could, but he was still able to get multiple ganks off and go 4-0.
Froggen destroyed lane phase though. Hope that was just NJWS being rusty against TF. They pushed down his tower as fast as they could, but he was still able to get multiple ganks off and go 4-0.
PhillipCostigan
Member
Western teams should honestly just ban Tristana if they're not going to take it on first rotation.
They clearly don't have a way to beat it. picking Lucian into it won't work.
Give yourself the best chance possible and just ban Tristana.
They clearly don't have a way to beat it. picking Lucian into it won't work.
Give yourself the best chance possible and just ban Tristana.
There will always be a "clock" adcarry
If you have a mid game spike team of Lucian, Irelia and tf, a 5k gold lead going into mid game and then you lose?
Not to mention your tf is fed as Fuck and makes only one pick with his Ult. Not to mention that they built bloodthirster + trinity Lucian which is all about mid game and still couldn't take mid tower. Not to mention that you're winning and you still get randomly picked two times in a row?
Yeah okay, blame the auto winning ad carry who put a clock on the game
If you have a mid game spike team of Lucian, Irelia and tf, a 5k gold lead going into mid game and then you lose?
Not to mention your tf is fed as Fuck and makes only one pick with his Ult. Not to mention that they built bloodthirster + trinity Lucian which is all about mid game and still couldn't take mid tower. Not to mention that you're winning and you still get randomly picked two times in a row?
Yeah okay, blame the auto winning ad carry who put a clock on the game
Okay, thanks.
Teams should just play it safe and play a hyper carry against Tristana instead of fucking Lucian. Kog'Maw and even Twitch would have been better. And if they're paired with a Thresh, that would make up for their lack of mobility in the laning phase.
I think the comeback would have happened regardless of those Thresh picks. Alliance didn't capitalize on the open inhib and they had a fucking TF, why they didn't run a 1-3-1 push doesn't make sense to me. TF was strong, Irelia was really strong, and they had Lucian with the help of Kha and Zil ult. God damn Alliance played this poorly.
PhillipCostigan
Member
Of course it's ultimately Alliance's fault.
Why would they give the strongest meta game pick that also happens to be top 2 late game carries in the game to the Korean team that revels in the late game?
Why would they then pick Lucian into it when the stats prove that Lucian is not a counter to Tristana?
Their vision control was poor. They allowed themselves to get picked a lot and feed kills to the Trist.
Shook continued to play poorly and just jump into fights without considering the risk.
Nyph's choice of ult targets was consistently bad.
All that considered, Shield would not have won that game without Tristana.
Why would they give the strongest meta game pick that also happens to be top 2 late game carries in the game to the Korean team that revels in the late game?
Why would they then pick Lucian into it when the stats prove that Lucian is not a counter to Tristana?
Their vision control was poor. They allowed themselves to get picked a lot and feed kills to the Trist.
Shook continued to play poorly and just jump into fights without considering the risk.
Nyph's choice of ult targets was consistently bad.
All that considered, Shield would not have won that game without Tristana.
Kotetsu534
Member
But they could have won that game without Tristana. Replace Tristana with Cait or Kog'Maw (or heck, Jinx) and they'd still outscale Alliance big time after 30 minutes. Much better case to be made they wouldn't have won without Lulu or Thresh to be honest.
No they couldn't have. Kog doesn't have the escape like Trist (Caitlyn either), Kog doesn't have the range (for AAing towers), and they both don't have the attack speed. Trist nearly reaches the max attack speed with her Q which is fucking stupid.
Alliance definitely played it poorly. I think that the picks shut down any attempt Alliance would have like to do to push towers though; Alliance got down some vision, got picked and couldn't do anything for a minute or so. Another pick happened once that guy got alive and their mid game was completely shut down. Alliance did play passive enough that a comeback might have happened anyway, but the picks accelerated it and ensured that Alliance could do nothing with their lead.
PhillipCostigan
Member
saying "they would have gotten another late game AD carry" doesn't take into consideration why Trist is the best late game carry now. Alliance would have had a much easier time dealing with a Kog'Maw, Caitlyn or Jinx because their comp could get to them. With TF, Irelia and Lucian you could beat any of those carries if you take the right fight even through the Lulu shields.
With Tristana she has her massive range jump and her low cooldown ult as well as her range. Her range is also not conditional like Kog's or Jinx'
Alliance's comp would have loved Shield to pick Kog or Jinx, or at least would have had more options to play against it.
Those champions have counterplay, Tristana doesn't.
I don't see how people can deny that Tristana was a massive contributing factor to that win and other champions wouldn't have that inevitability that Tristana does.
Kotetsu534
Member
I'm making the entirely reasonable assumption that Ggoong (on Lulu) and Gorilla (on Thresh) would not just stand there and let Irelia dive their AD at 40 minutes. There's a reason that dive comps are focussed on the mid-game and not the late game in competitive play - they do not work against peel when it's used properly. Irelia is not going to get 6 seconds to burst down an AD carry.
Edit: Irelia has a Zilean ult and a GA. The carry has Help Pix, Wild Growth, Mikael's, Flay, Death Sentence, The Box, Dragon's Rage, Safeguard, QSS, lifesteal, plus whatever kiting tools they have of their own. It's not happening.
Edit: Irelia has a Zilean ult and a GA. The carry has Help Pix, Wild Growth, Mikael's, Flay, Death Sentence, The Box, Dragon's Rage, Safeguard, QSS, lifesteal, plus whatever kiting tools they have of their own. It's not happening.
PhillipCostigan
Member
and you're ignoring the Zilean factor here. An Irelia, Kha'Zix and TF diving onto an immobile ADC with a Zilean ult to come is far more threatening and a lot harder to deal with when you don't have a hyperscaling champion with a 900 range jump and 1000 range knock back, as well as a reset on the jump.
Against other champions there is at least the chance that if Alliance play it right they can win against those champions. They can't against Tristana.
PhillipCostigan
Member
This game is great,
Blue are playing the defensive pick game really well.
Fnatic playing the objective and fight game really well.
Big win for Fnatic there.
Blue are playing the defensive pick game really well.
Fnatic playing the objective and fight game really well.
Big win for Fnatic there.
Prototype Viktor
Member
lol Peke went "lulz" to that lantern not being taken
PhillipCostigan
Member
YESSSSSSSSSSS
PhillipCostigan
Member
SOMEONE HOLD ME
Lmq and Fnatic for groups
PhillipCostigan
Member
Peke and Rekkles showed up
More diplomatically, Fnatic did a better job of leveraging their early lead with that baron bait.
Kotetsu534
Member
Fnatic take a game off a Korean team, just like they did last year. This group is going to be awesome.
Deft's tears.
Deft's tears.
