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Leak: Switch 2 to use Orin T239 Nvidia Soc , PS4 and PS4 pro performance Without DLSS

Kataploom

Gold Member
Remember, Nintendo dont sell console at loss, so with this specs i call bs
Well, Switch Tegra is from 2015, so 2 years before Switch came out and they didn't have a problem to afford them and sell them at profit, probably due to great economy of scales since Nvidia couldn't sell them, I can think something like that can work again for them both. If I'm not wrong this chip we're talking about is from last year so it will be two years by the time it releases.
 

VitoNotVito

Member
Am I seeing this wrong or is it supposed to be even better than Asus Rog? That already sounds extremely unbelievable.
Using old school TFLOP measure, the beefier Z1 Extreme ROG is over 8 TFLOPS.
If Switch 2 is equal to PS4/PS4 Pro then it's only 1.84/4.20 TFLOPs. For 1080p gaming on the go it should be enough.
 
With DLSS2, the Switch 2 can "cheat" a lot more than the current gen consoles with their shit tier AMD GPU's. I would think the gap between Switch 2 and PS5/XSeX will end up being smaller than people think if the developers can target a very aggressive DLSS2 render resolution.

DLSS2 Performance on the PC side renders to target 4K in 1080p (1/4 pixel count) and it looks extremely good for what the render resolution is. You can test this yourself on any Nvidia RTX 30/40 series GPU. Similarly, the docked Switch 2 could be rendering a 4K target image with the equivalent of 1080p resolution and the result would be very difficult to distinguish from native 4K without pixel peeping if the developer optimizes it well. When portable, it could render to target 1080p with equivalent 720p or even 540p resolution.

If Nintendo is willing to put 16 GB of RAM in the Switch 2, then we could conceivably be seeing current-gen equivalent ports from PS5/XSeX to Switch 2, the developers would be able to use DLSS2 to render 25% of the pixel count and get results so close that it will seem like magic. Of course PC gamers have known this magic for years, but Sony and Microsoft using AMD instead of Nvidia meant that until now, consoles have been denied such magic.
 
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I think memory bandwidth would require a serious boost if Nintendo don't want it to become a bottleneck yet again... That much GPU power might be wasted unless they want to use it for realtime procedural texturing lol
We have LPDDR4X in Switch OLED but working at half-rate. They can use same memory in stock clocks and already have 2x of bandwidth without do anything. Or slap LPDDR5 and have fun! :messenger_tears_of_joy:
(actually LPDDR5X have about the same power draw as LPDDR4X so it's very unlikely I guess)

Ps4 performance without dlss! Holy shit...that would be amazing.

Not gonna get my hopes up so if it comes true I can do a happy dance.
Man... Just beware - we was here many times. Nintendo is very focused on software and extracting every last bit of their profitable hardware. They just try to be very effective and profitable.
The good news is that games will mostly look and feel excellent, without bugs, no matter on what hardware. Also expect a shit-ton of ports from PS4 era that you can play on-the go, with local multiplayer.
 
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Haint

Member
Rog ally is already at 8 tflops. Yes doesn't have the memory bandwidth but still.

8TF by the new double counted simultaneous FP32 and INT32 calculation. 4TF by the old method every console is calculated by. In practice the Rog Ally performs closest to a GTX 1650, which is a 3TF part. If the OP's core count is accurate, this chip manufactured on 5nm TSMC would almost definitely outperform the Ally in docked mode (and certainly so with DLSS). However if it's 7nm or 8nm it'll shave up to 1Ghz off the clock speed and it'll be closest to a GTX 1050 or 1050Ti (albeit with DLSS able to do a lot of heavy lifting above that).
 
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DenchDeckard

Moderated wildly
We have LPDDR4X in Switch OLED but working at half-rate. They can use same memory in stock clocks and already have 2x of bandwidth without do anything. Or slap LPDDR5 and have fun! :messenger_tears_of_joy:
(actually LPDDR5X have about the same power draw as LPDDR4X so it's very unlikely I guess)


Man... Just beware - we was here many times. Nintendo is very focused on software and extracting every last bit of their profitable hardware. They just try to be very effective and profitable.
The good news is that games will mostly look and feel excellent, without bugs, no matter on what hardware.

Great points. It will be day one no matter what. Switch has been the best console for years and I'm even counting current gen. Best games hands down for me. Exclusives are amazing. Great hardware and portable.

The magic they deliver with their art design is top tier. It would be nice to have ps4 performance before dlss, as Nintendo could make some mind blowing titles on that.
 

NeoIkaruGAF

Gold Member
This mean this thing will cost $400 at most right?
Probably. But considering the inflating cost of everything and the fact that PS5 is being successful at its price, if this thing can attain this kind of performance, the price would be justified. And core gamers wouldn’t step back from it. The big question is how the casual public would react. $400 is a lot of money to ask to play Mario Kart and Pokémon.
 

Mownoc

Member
So it's essentially the Orin NX 16GB chip customised with 50% more CUDA cores. So assuming Nintendo don't lower the clocks (which they very well might as they did with the X1 on the Switch) then it would be 2.8TF. Won't beat the PS4 Pro in raw gpu power, can make up the difference with DLSS. Whether it still has 16gb ram is another matter.

Personally I was expecting them just to keep the 1024 CUDA cores and not bump it to 1536. Won't be too long now before we know if this is accurate.
 

daclynk

Member
I Dont Believe You Will Ferrell GIF
 

Tommi84

Member
Uhm... does this mean Switch 2 will be ON PAR Series S o_O.? And with the DLSS will perform better o_O? Or I'm totally taking this out of my a...
 

Leopold

Member
Probably. But considering the inflating cost of everything and the fact that PS5 is being successful at its price, if this thing can attain this kind of performance, the price would be justified. And core gamers wouldn’t step back from it. The big question is how the casual public would react. $400 is a lot of money to ask to play Mario Kart and Pokémon.
Yeah, you're really misguided if you think that people are only playing Mario Kart and Pokemon on their Nintendo Switch.
 

Regginator

Member
If the Switch 2 going to be backwards compatible, which according to rumours it should, this is gonna be a day-1 for me.

I don't expect it, but imagine it has a feature similar to current gens that it takes advantage of the hardware and upgrade some of its previous gen games. 😍
 

Robb

Gold Member
Uhm... does this mean Switch 2 will be ON PAR Series S o_O.? And with the DLSS will perform better o_O? Or I'm totally taking this out of my a...
I’m no tech expert but I don’t think so just based of off the size they’re going for. You can fit like 5 (if not more?) Switch consoles in a Series S and “Switch 2” will probably have the same form-factor as the last one at a similar price-point while also making a profit from day 1.

It’ll be way better than current Switch, that’s about it I think.
 

Onironauta

Member
Uhm... does this mean Switch 2 will be ON PAR Series S o_O.? And with the DLSS will perform better o_O? Or I'm totally taking this out of my a...
Not necessarily, these kind of APUs tend to be undercloked even in docked mode (because of limited cooling), and have RAM bandwidth bottleneck (because of using DDR instead of GDDR)
 

FireFly

Member
One of those pie-in-the-sky threads.

First of all, XB1s (1.2 fp32 TF) is more along what anyone should expect from the SWitch 2. The steam deck doesn't even have PS4 TF. And there is no amount of docking that is going to take a handheld from 1.2TF all the way up to 4TF. Shit just doesn't that way.

A more realistic optimistic expectation would be 1.2TF (XB1s) in handheld mode and 1.8TF (PS4 perf) in docked mode.
Nvidia doubled the number of FP32 units per SM with Ampere, so that's why the TF figures are higher. But the performance per teraflop is consequently lower than with RDNA 2. A 1536 ALU Ampere GPU would offer 2.82 TF at the rated clock of the Jetson Orin NX 16 GB (918 MHz). That should put it around PS4 performance in docked mode.

Uhm... does this mean Switch 2 will be ON PAR Series S .? And with the DLSS will perform better ? Or I'm totally taking this out of my a...
You would need a 7.5 TF+ Nvidia part to compete with the Series S. Something like the 35W RTX 3050 Ti laptop GPU. There's no way that's fitting in a handheld.
 
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daclynk

Member
Nvidia doubled the number of FP32 units per SM with Ampere, so that's why the TF figures are higher. But the performance per teraflop is consequently lower than with RDNA 2. A 1536 ALU Ampere GPU would offer 2.82 TF at the rated clock of the Jetson Orin NX 16 GB (918 MHz). That should put it around PS4 performance in docked mode.
is that without Tensor core and DLSS. i remember Nintendo partitioned their own Machine learning Image reconstruction a while back
 

FunkMiller

Gold Member
ToTK will be GOTY, and it runs on a potato.

People need to stop obsessing so much over how powerful the Switch 2 is going to be. It doesn't really matter. They'll make whatever console is powerful enough for them to make the games they want to make.

Better to have 'weaker' hardware that plays GOTYs, than 'stronger' hardware that plays broken shit.
 

Boy bawang

Member
Uhm... does this mean Switch 2 will be ON PAR Series S o_O.? And with the DLSS will perform better o_O? Or I'm totally taking this out of my a...

Lots of people here are talking out of their ass, but the specs aren't really crazy. They're good. And they've been known since March 2022 and the Nvidia hack but GAF is late, as often.

From a GPU point of view, this machine will indeed rival a series S when accounting for DLSS. But it will still lag behind in terms of CPU, memory bandwidth etc. Which is expected for a hybrid console sold below 500 dollars.

The series S will be more powerful overall, but diminishing returns and DLSS will help this new switch to feel closer to its counterparts than the switch was.
 

Thirty7ven

Banned
PS4 and Pro as if they are the same. Before DLSS? People are overestimating the DLSS potential capabilities of this thing.

People once again forgetting how Nintendo goes about with their consoles, the price, the power draw, etc
 

Moonjt9

No Silksong? = Delivering the pain.
ToTK will be GOTY, and it runs on a potato.

People need to stop obsessing so much over how powerful the Switch 2 is going to be. It doesn't really matter. They'll make whatever console is powerful enough for them to make the games they want to make.

Better to have 'weaker' hardware that plays GOTYs, than 'stronger' hardware that plays broken shit.
But imagine a world where you had ps5 power for Nintendo games… like imagine how insane Zelda would be with all that graphical potential.

A utopian dream…
 

FunkMiller

Gold Member
But imagine a world where you had ps5 power for Nintendo games… like imagine how insane Zelda would be with all that graphical potential.

A utopian dream…

I see no point in the pursuit of power if it means you have to homogenise all of your games to sell as many copies as possible, across as many platforms as possible, because you spent too much money in the pursuit of power.

The Xbox Series X is fucking pointless at this stage. The Ps5 is having all of its games ported to PC. Proper exclusives are dying in the rush to put out something that plays games at a slightly higher resolution.

Nintendo should make the Switch 2 as powerful or as easy to work with as they need it to be to continue making games like ToTK. Nothing else.
 

Woopah

Member
If they release a console as pwoerful as PS5/XSX they will be unable to sell at $299
Nintendo doesn't lose money on hardware, so no way it is using something like this and coming out at $400.
With the way Switch OLED is selling at $349, Switch 2 will be $399 minimum
This is the only sane reply in this thread. Everything in it makes much morse sense för Nintendo.

You guys have too high expectations, I just can't see that Nintendo would care the least bit about DLSS or implement it in their games, and certainly not require it for all games.

Power and performance is at the very bottom of their list of priorities.
The leak from Nvidia shows they were/are working on a custom SoC for Nintendo that used DLSS.
 

Robb

Gold Member
But imagine a world where you had ps5 power for Nintendo games… like imagine how insane Zelda would be with all that graphical potential.
Would it though? I’m pretty sure it’d look like BotW/TotK in higher res and run better. Pretty easy to imagine.

Just like Mario Odyssey pretty much looks like what you’d imagine a higher res Mario Galaxy would look like.
 

Caio

Member
With DLSS2, the Switch 2 can "cheat" a lot more than the current gen consoles with their shit tier AMD GPU's. I would think the gap between Switch 2 and PS5/XSeX will end up being smaller than people think if the developers can target a very aggressive DLSS2 render resolution.

DLSS2 Performance on the PC side renders to target 4K in 1080p (1/4 pixel count) and it looks extremely good for what the render resolution is. You can test this yourself on any Nvidia RTX 30/40 series GPU. Similarly, the docked Switch 2 could be rendering a 4K target image with the equivalent of 1080p resolution and the result would be very difficult to distinguish from native 4K without pixel peeping if the developer optimizes it well. When portable, it could render to target 1080p with equivalent 720p or even 540p resolution.

If Nintendo is willing to put 16 GB of RAM in the Switch 2, then we could conceivably be seeing current-gen equivalent ports from PS5/XSeX to Switch 2, the developers would be able to use DLSS2 to render 25% of the pixel count and get results so close that it will seem like magic. Of course PC gamers have known this magic for years, but Sony and Microsoft using AMD instead of Nvidia meant that until now, consoles have been denied such magic.
DLSS is cool, helps a lot in performance, but AMD is much better in delivering more efficient APU to fit into a console.
Maybe you forgot about the RSX of PS3 and the NV2A into the first XBox...those two Graphic Chip/GPU were far from being magic if you ask me. The only magic thing I can smell right now is PS5 PRO in late 2024. "Switch2" will be great for the Games, the hardware will be meh as usual.
 

RespawnX

Member
So 25 minutes battery life then? This seems doubtful.
Let them hype until they realize that the full-scaled chip would never make sense in a mobile console that aims 3 hours+ runtime. We remember this from the Switch launch. Divide the performance number by 2 and we are much closer to reality. I expect an 8 GPU-core layout, the clock rates could be close. That means mobile = Xbox One and docking = somewhat faster than PS4.
 

shamoomoo

Member
ToTK will be GOTY, and it runs on a potato.

People need to stop obsessing so much over how powerful the Switch 2 is going to be. It doesn't really matter. They'll make whatever console is powerful enough for them to make the games they want to make.

Better to have 'weaker' hardware that plays GOTYs, than 'stronger' hardware that plays broken shit.
Huh? Performance is mostly based on how the game was programmed, hardware capabilities is a secondary factor.
 

Tarin02543

Member
Let them hype until they realize that the full-scaled chip would never make sense in a mobile console that aims 3 hours+ runtime. We remember this from the Switch launch. Divide the performance number by 2 and we are much closer to reality. I expect an 8 GPU-core layout, the clock rates could be close. That means mobile = Xbox One and docking = somewhat faster than PS4.

Wouldn’t a modern node mitigate that somewhat? Switch launched on a 20 nm node which explains the severity of the underclocking.

The newest TSMC chips have special low power versions
 

daclynk

Member
Wii was overclocked GameCube that was powerful than PS2
WiiU was powerful than the PS3
Switch was powerful than the WiiU in handheld mode
So is it unbelievable that the Next Gen Nintendo system is going to be powerful than the PS4 Jaguar CPU?
 
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