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Leak: Switch 2 to use Orin T239 Nvidia Soc , PS4 and PS4 pro performance Without DLSS
- Thread starter Bernoulli
- Start date
64bitmodels
Reverse groomer.
Gotta ask, is this relative to resolution? The Steam Deck is relatively between a PS4 and a pro at 720/800p, and that goes down a bit to just around PS4 when it enters 1080p territory
If this is actually just a plain PS4 pro, that's insane. the Switch could push 4k in many games including Nintendo games if it were just a plain PS4 pro
If this is actually just a plain PS4 pro, that's insane. the Switch could push 4k in many games including Nintendo games if it were just a plain PS4 pro
This is NINTENDO when was last time they produced a powerful console, specs to nintendo havnt mattered since the gamecube, plus if it still a handheld we not getting a massive boost as nintendo dont make consoles and sell at a loss compared to sony and microsoft,and they not gonna release a £400+ handheld, id love to have a powerfuly nintendo console but i just cant see it, i can see a slight bump in what the switch is now, deffently not as powerful as a steam deck
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4nm? Nintendo using TSMC's 4nm? Nintendo? 4nm? NINTENDO?!
It's perfectly reasonable. 5nm node will be over 4 years old when Switch 2 ships (first commercial chip was Apple A14 back in 2020). Apple will be more or less fully transitioned to 3nm by fall of 2024 and 3nm CPUs/GPUs will be either released or right around the corner.
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NeoIkaruGAF
Gold Member
Not really what I said (or think).
But the sales charts speak loud and clear. Mario Kart, Pokémon and Animal Crossing are monstrous sellers. And no doubt the existence of the Switch Lite contributed in no small part to those sales. A $400 system would certainly make not a few of those people pause and ponder for a minute or two before buying the system for those games. Especially when the old ones are still selling and won’t be discontinued overnight when Switch 2 releases.
Anyway, too many rumors again. Nobody is ever 100% spot-on with Nintendo predictions, so let’s wait and see.
Buggy Loop
Member
Nintendo ain't driving this, Nvidia is. Just like Nintendo was not driving the tegra X1. Nvidia has other uses for those chips and nintendo picking a custom soc would be stupidly expensive. Is nintendo cheap? Yea? Then its Nvidia driven.
Release an handheld with 60% of Steam deck's teraflops and release 2~3 years later?
The cynicism on this forum for anything Nintendo is through the roof.
In a market where its easy and readily available to have powerful (>PS4) and efficient mobile chipsets
With Qualcomm approaching Nintendo for next switch iteration, somehow Nintendo asked Nvidia to be under all of these... but roughly the same chipset price. Snapdragon is so cheap that its entering the Pico 5 & Quest 3 VR headsets which will be in the ~$500 range but with way bigger BOM due to optics and cameras for inside out tracking and AR pass through, etc.
They can fumble, but not fumble THAT hard.
No DLSS?
Means those performances native, with DLSS it would improve further. Not that the chipset has no support for DLSS.
jshaver488
Member
I’m expecting about .8 tflops handheldd and 1.6 tflops docked. So about 4x the current Switch. Then dlss 2.1
I’d be very happy with that
I’d be very happy with that
I definetly expect something around base PS4 level for a Switch 2 in 2024, 11 years after the home console.
PS4 Pro I seriously doubt it, Nintendo won't change their winning formula of cheap hardware with a twist to catch casuals.
DLSS will be important in upscaling the games to make them look good on a big TV in docked mode.
PS4 Pro I seriously doubt it, Nintendo won't change their winning formula of cheap hardware with a twist to catch casuals.
DLSS will be important in upscaling the games to make them look good on a big TV in docked mode.
Fabieter
Member
Switch also had a massive boost in super casuals jumping in. Do people think those people will upgrade for slightly better graphics for 400 to 500 bucks.
LordOfChaos
Member
Getting a little carried away...
The t234 produces 4Tflops, around the PS4 Pro, at 50 watts. The total Switch running zelda uses 11 watts when charged
gadgetversus.com
www.anandtech.com
If the customized chip is based on it, it will be very downclocked. I'd be happy if it even hit 2Tflops because power needs to drop by a lot. I'd expect close to base PS4, not PS4 Pro.
The t234 produces 4Tflops, around the PS4 Pro, at 50 watts. The total Switch running zelda uses 11 watts when charged
Nvidia Tegra X1 Maxwell GPU vs Nvidia Tegra Orin T234 GPU
Comparison between Nvidia Tegra X1 Maxwell GPU and Nvidia Tegra Orin T234 GPU with the specifications of the graphics cards, the number of execution units, ...
gadgetversus.com
Playing With Power: A Look At Nintendo Switch Power Consumption
If the customized chip is based on it, it will be very downclocked. I'd be happy if it even hit 2Tflops because power needs to drop by a lot. I'd expect close to base PS4, not PS4 Pro.
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LordOfChaos
Member
Lol I remember the Wii U speculation with some vague mumbling on being based on the Power7 chip...Turned out to be that old 750 from the iMac G3, glued in three and given an eDRAM L2 cache. And then the GPU thread and the slow dawning realization that it was lower than anyone had imagined for the year at 160 shaders and 172 Gflops, launching so close to the PS4.
WiiU "Latte" GPU Die Photo - GPU Feature Set And Power Analysis
Full-size photo here (very big) A version of the die photo with each of the components outlined and labelled: What's going on here? A few days ago, wsippel noticed that Chipworks had Wii U die photos up for sale on their website, and at $200 a piece (for each of the CPU, GPU and NOR dies)...
Expect lower with Nintendo so you don't get disappointed...
existensmaximum
Member
Eh, everything can be faked, details can be wrong, misunderstandings happen and until I see this particular chip inside the next Nintendo console I don't believe they will use it.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
TLZ
Banned
Those 2 came out in 2013 and 2016. Been quite a while now. Series S is 4tf and came out 2020 is smaller and quiet, 4 years after the Pro. Switch is rumoured to come out 2024. So it's very possible.
Kilau
Member
I could see them going with memory that is slightly faster bandwidth than launch XBONE.
asdasdasdbb
Member
Yea... TSMC is not happening. It's either Samsung's 8 nm (which is what Orin is based on) or a simple shrink to Samsung's 5 nm. Can't completely compare to the existing Orin lineup because they have lots of Automotive crap which won't be in this variant.
The one thing that would be nice would be an decompression engine like the PS5.
The one thing that would be nice would be an decompression engine like the PS5.
Gordon Freeman
Member
I believe it. Worse specs than a Steam Deck or ROG Ally. Checks out.
Insane Metal
Member
<PS4 in docked mode.
REDRZA MWS
Member
Yawn. We are on the cusp of a PS5 pro and already have a 12tf XSX. Get current Nintendo, have some balls.
Very on point for Nintendo
daffyduck
Member
That, and they can actually 'anticipate the demand'.
FunkMiller
Member
Switch lifetime sales: 125 million.
ToTK sales: 18.5 million.
Nintendo 1.3 billion last quarter profit.
You'd kill to have balls that big.
alucard0712_rus
Banned
With games that are 2+ generations ahead. It's not for whining pussies
yeah with the Wii U they spent their money on the Gamepad. With the 3ds they spent it on 3d and continued the dual screens.Lol I remember the Wii U speculation with some vague mumbling on being based on the Power7 chip...Turned out to be that old 750 from the iMac G3, glued in three and given an eDRAM L2 cache. And then the GPU thread and the slow dawning realization that it was lower than anyone had imagined for the year at 160 shaders and 172 Gflops, launching so close to the PS4.
WiiU "Latte" GPU Die Photo - GPU Feature Set And Power Analysis
Full-size photo here (very big) A version of the die photo with each of the components outlined and labelled: What's going on here? A few days ago, wsippel noticed that Chipworks had Wii U die photos up for sale on their website, and at $200 a piece (for each of the CPU, GPU and NOR dies)...www.neogaf.com
Expect lower with Nintendo so you don't get disappointed...
With the Switch, much was spent on detachable controllers and the dock.
REDRZA MWS
Member
Ask Sony how they are doing. Balls dwarf Nintendo, like mine dwarf yours.
Woopah
Member
I don't think Nvidia would fake their own files so we know that at least at one point Nvidia was working on this chip for Nintendo. Plans could have changed in the last few years of course.
Boy bawang
Member
There's nothing to "believe", it's literally hack.
Dacvak
No one shall be brought before our LORD David Bowie without the true and secret knowledge of the Photoshop. For in that time, so shall He appear.
This very likely isn’t all that far off, but people are missing a few pieces here. The Switch 2 will very likely have the same TDP as the original, ~15W. Even if Nintendo got the full fat version of the T239, a 15W cap would significantly reduce the max performance, compared to what some are speculating based on chip specs.
Secondly, it’s likely that, while the SoC could be based around the T239 as a starting point, it’ll almost certainly be pruned down to strip away some superfluous hardware that was initially developed with AI and auto in mind.
Secondly, it’s likely that, while the SoC could be based around the T239 as a starting point, it’ll almost certainly be pruned down to strip away some superfluous hardware that was initially developed with AI and auto in mind.
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CrustyBritches
Gold Member
This info was posted here in June 2021.
Zuzu
Member
This is probably around my expectations as well (though hoping for a docked mode of 1.8-2.0 tflops). I don't believe it'll be PS4 Pro level in docked mode. That seems way too high. Perhaps with DLSS it'll produce image quality comparable to what's possible on PS4 Pro (or maybe even better!) but I don't think its raw performance will be that high.
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Boy bawang
Member
This info was posted here in June 2021.
The name was known (though with an error as people believed the code name would be Dane instead of Drake), but the specs were only known after the hack. Which not only confirmed the previous leaks but offered almost all relevant info about the chip. And that occurred in March 2022.
Haint
Member
It's almost inconceivable for a TSMC N4 chip to run at 500Mhz and 1Ghz. The Z1 Extreme GPU on the same node can boost to 2.8Ghz and runs full time sustained at 2.2 - 2.4Ghz, and that's while being hamstrung by a wildly inefficient and overpowered CPU cluster stealing all the power and heat. This would be an almost criminal waste of money and manufacturing capacity, they'd be infinitely better off with N7 or 8N if they want clocks that low. A larger battery would cost a fraction of a fraction of a fraction of the price premium they'd be paying for N4
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
That was posted here in March 2022.
Mobilemofo
Member
I don't think console users will be meithered tbh..Nintendo were doing there own thing time ago. As long as the consoles get the games, everything else is secondary.
LordOfChaos
Member
^^Getting a little carried away...
The t234 produces 4Tflops, around the PS4 Pro, at 50 watts. The total Switch running zelda uses 11 watts when charged
Nvidia Tegra X1 Maxwell GPU vs Nvidia Tegra Orin T234 GPU
Comparison between Nvidia Tegra X1 Maxwell GPU and Nvidia Tegra Orin T234 GPU with the specifications of the graphics cards, the number of execution units, ...
Playing With Power: A Look At Nintendo Switch Power Consumption
If the customized chip is based on it, it will be very downclocked. I'd be happy if it even hit 2Tflops because power needs to drop by a lot. I'd expect close to base PS4, not PS4 Pro.
It has to drop a lot of power to fit in a Switch like form factor. At a larger node it would fare even worse, that doesn't make sense.
cinnamonandgravy
Member
just for the love of god support DLSS
ps4 visuals for a whole new generation will be roughhhhhh
ps4 visuals for a whole new generation will be roughhhhhh
Chronos24
Member
I've been saying for years Nintendo could go back to saying "Now you're playing with Power" but this time, the "Power is in your hands" . Money printer but will never happen. I'm guessing the nest Nintendo, be it an upgraded Switch basically will be 2x at best 3x more powerful than current switch. So much potential but they just won't do it.
Haint
Member
...The Z1 Extreme (Rog Ally) is the same form factor on the same node. No Nintendo's not going run at 25+ watts in portable mode like the Ally, but 500Mhz is significantly lower than even the Ally's "sleep mode" clock which idles on a blank desktop at 800Mhz. 1ghz docked is even more ridiculous. I'm obviously aware larger nodes are even worse, but they're 3x cheaper to manufacture, hence my battery comment. An 8" tablet is huge and has plenty of space for a massive battery.
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Chronos24
Member
I will also say one thing we're not considering here is that we're basing what the PS4/pro were like at time of launch. To get that kind of power which was a decade/6-7 years ago is practically childs play today and wouldn't require as much as it did then. I say it's plausible at least to get that kind of power today and not be battery or wattage hungry with smaller nodes and efficiency.
LordOfChaos
Member
While I can't find a comparison to the Ally directly, and it is more svelte than the Steam Deck, it also has fancier cooling and while these are comparable form factors, they're not really in comparable cooling and battery sizes
We're also comparing across not just GPU architectures but different GPU companies completely, where RDNA3 does chase higher clocks. I would also hazard a guess that none of these have sleep battery time like the Switch then?
We need to keep in mind how much Nintendo underclocked even the Tegra X1 in portable mode...I think higher expectations are going to be let down. Keep em low and be pleasantly surprised.
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FunkMiller
Member
Do you want me to go get a couple of action figures you can bash together?
CanYouFlyBobby?
Banned
ps4 part i belive but ps4 pro in docked nope
Keep them low is probably the outcome ..While I can't find a comparison to the Ally directly, and it is more svelte than the Steam Deck, it also has fancier cooling and while these are comparable form factors, they're not really in comparable cooling and battery sizes
We're also comparing across not just GPU architectures but different GPU companies completely, where RDNA3 does chase higher clocks. I would also hazard a guess that none of these have sleep battery time like the Switch then?
We need to keep in mind how much Nintendo underclocked even the Tegra X1 in portable mode...I think higher expectations are going to be let down. Keep em low and be pleasantly surprised.
Buggy Loop
Member
Getting a little carried away...
The t234 produces 4Tflops, around the PS4 Pro, at 50 watts. The total Switch running zelda uses 11 watts when charged
Nvidia Tegra X1 Maxwell GPU vs Nvidia Tegra Orin T234 GPU
Comparison between Nvidia Tegra X1 Maxwell GPU and Nvidia Tegra Orin T234 GPU with the specifications of the graphics cards, the number of execution units, ...
Playing With Power: A Look At Nintendo Switch Power Consumption
If the customized chip is based on it, it will be very downclocked. I'd be happy if it even hit 2Tflops because power needs to drop by a lot. I'd expect close to base PS4, not PS4 Pro.
You're getting carried away
I have no clue where that link got 50 Watts, looks shady for a source when it makes the usual "this vs this" charts like some sites do for GPU and CPU, but that make no goddamn sense. On Nvidia's own full specs of Jetson orin, the BEEFIER Jetson AGX Orin 32GB with 1792-core NVIDIA Ampere architecture GPU with 56 Tensor Cores (higher than speculated specs) and 8nm TSMC and a shitload of I/O ports (taking power, but its for automotive/controller business) and is rated for 15-40W. Switch 2 would have Less I/O, less LPDDR5, less cores, better node. Again with the cynicism around here.
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Haint
Member
While I can't find a comparison to the Ally directly, and it is more svelte than the Steam Deck, it also has fancier cooling and while these are comparable form factors, they're not really in comparable cooling and battery sizes
We're also comparing across not just GPU architectures but different GPU companies completely, where RDNA3 does chase higher clocks. I would also hazard a guess that none of these have sleep battery time like the Switch then?
We need to keep in mind how much Nintendo underclocked even the Tegra X1 in portable mode...I think higher expectations are going to be let down. Keep em low and be pleasantly surprised.
Important to note Switch 2 is supposedly 8", so by default already much larger than Switch. As you point out the Ally is quite a bit smaller than Steamdeck and in both cases 90% their girth is in the ergo handles and MUCH larger controllers, not the actual tablet guts--which hopefully Nintendo copies, cause the ruler flat smurf handed joycons are objectively terrible. The actual tablet guts portion mirrors most of the Switch's dimensions, save for the thickness. All of which is ultimately immaterial, cause none of these devices are anywhere close to being pocketable.
WRT clocks, Nvidia's 4N GPUs actually run a little higher than AMD's. I know full well Nintendo's going underclock it into the dirt (see my quote on page 1 from yesterday), but these proposed clocks on this node arent just in the dirt, they're penetrating the earths core and coming out in China Looney Tunes style. These represent less than 200Mhz gains over the ancient 20nm Switch 1, and are even lower than the actual Tegra X1's reference clocks. Comical levels of ridiculousness.
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existensmaximum
Member
All I'm saying is that I don't believe that whatever chip ends up in the next Switch, will have PS4 pro performance, or DLSS. Regardless of hacks, leaks and what Nvidia have been working on.
FrozenFlame
Member
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