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Leisure Suit Larry Kickstarter by Replay Games [Ended, $673K funded]

cacildo

Member
NOooooooooooooooooooOh wait. If i dont like a game, i can just, you know, not play it.

Its not like it will kill the original one, right? I can play it again any time (its abandonware already, right?)

With that said, NO. I dont want a remake of the original larry.

The poor graphics and lack of voice work is part of the charm of the game.

It was strange and bizarre and funny. I played it in a 286, with a black and green monitor. It was great. No need for any kind of update.
 
If this were true, though, every single Kickstarter product would be a disaster. Is this the case? Is Kickstarter an unmitigated failure the way you're suggesting?



Where did you get this mission statement from? Kickstarter is about 'crowdfunding'. Crowdfunding is about using end-consumers as an alternate source of funding.



You're just tossing out ad hominems, and doesn't even address the point at hand. This isn't even a remake, but a remake (supposedly a full-on rethink) of a 35-year old game. How does that even compare to Halo, a franchise that gets yearly sequels in any non-stupid way?



You're using the term 'gamble' literally and you should probably stop. It's not a literal gamble. It's a pledge. The gamble is that indeed, it could not be good. It might not even come out -- these are known risks of kickstarter. And yes, it is for-profit. Again, this is known, up-front. There's no masking of this; no one's framing this as charity.



In this context, why do they exist? Please clarify.



How is this not indie development?



You reach this conclusion, but from your earlier points I can't see how you're able to support any of with anything but FUD.

What exactly has Kickstarter delivered so far?

You're no longer a "end consumer" when you're paying for it upfront without knowing whether you'll actually receive an end product. You're not even an investor because the party getting the free money is ultimately not accountable to you.

Fair enough, at least you're consistent. I still think you're overstating the sort of quality guarantees you get from publisher-funded game development. It is certainly riskier, but the risks are known up-front. Maybe people are under the assumption that you'll get a product no matter what, but that's mostly their own fault.

There's no risk with a pre-order, you can put in $5 or $60 on a pre-order but if you don't want the game you can get your money back.
 

Perkel

Banned
Of course it is. You're not getting ANYTHING until the game comes out and you are in no control of the project. Zilch. Nada. None. You don't know or will know a thing about this project beyond what gaf-news. You are getting what they make in return for your money.
Motivation to impress you? None. You are already paid. You pre-ordered to the nth degree and pre-orders aren't helping this industry in the least.

The concept of kickstarters was made to get people out of the mind-set of doing the same shit over and over and over again, it was to get people with good ideas a chance to approach and experiment with said idea in a world where nobody is willing to fund new ideas...not a major franchise...or any franchise in general. The point was to counter-act franchises. Of course, gamers don't understand how a game could exist without it being a franchise...or something.

If you're stuck in nostalgia mode, fine, we have a giant multi-billion dollar industry tailored specifically to your man-child sequelitis needs. Next up is to kickstart the next halo.

Never let someone else gamble with your money. This isn't some guy in a basement with a big heart, this is for-profit, this is not charity. This is business in which case you are not a share holder. You are nothing but easy money. And even if you were a share-holder, then look forward to hell when share-holder interests battle with dev interests/opinion. Good lord, you think the petitions are bad...just you wait when money is on the line.

The backlash is going to be legendary though, when these poor folks realize why publishers exist and why, many a time, they need to play the bad guy. I guess we are getting that.


The funny thing is that people have already figured out how to bypass the concept of a publisher (for whatever reason). We call it indy development. Yes, you have to put your own money on the line in the long run, but that would be best. That would motivate he who puts everything on the line to make a game that would interest gamers. Then, people get to buy the product AFTER knowing if it's any good AFTER it's made and AFTER reception and AFTER a demo best case scenario.

This kickstarter junk is not confronting the issues with game development of the 21st century, they're amplifying...both for fanboyism and fanboy exploitation, risk/reward and the nonstop sequelitis and for development/publisher/customer relationships (it's just lopsiding it in a different way). And worst will be when publishers start to pay attention and find a way to exploit it. Then we're right back where we were anyway.

So are you buthurt or not ?

People give them money because they like them and want to play their games. What is wrong here ? Are you mental ? Also it's freaking 15$ i loose at least 50$ everyweak for some stupid shit i can live without.
 

androvsky

Member
What exactly has Kickstarter delivered so far?

Heh, paging stumpkapow. Kickstarter has been around for years, with dozens, if not hundreds of successful projects. iirc, stump's personally funded at least a dozen that he was happy with.

Yes, the game was announced months ago: http://www.egmnow.com/articles/exclusive-leisure-suit-larry-returns-in-hd/

This abuse of the kickstarter platform is going to ruin it for people that legitimately can use it to bring us good games.

That's the article I was remembering, but if you read it closely it just says that they've acquired the rights to make the games. Naturally, they'd need funding to actually remake the first game, and probably felt that was going to be trivial when they talked to egm about it. Apparently, the publishers turned them down. Big surprise.
 

MNC

Member
Another day, another Kickstarter...developers no longer paying for their own gamers because gamers are warped enough to fund them.

And gamers (hopefully) will get what they expect in a game without the mind of the publisher confining the developers!

Truly a new age of gaming has been born.
 

Perkel

Banned
What exactly has Kickstarter delivered so far?

FUCKING DREAMS CAME TRUE AND BUCKETS OF SPERM.

You're no longer a "end consumer" when you're paying for it upfront without knowing whether you'll actually receive an end product. You're not even an investor because the party getting the free money is ultimately not accountable to you.

Who cares ! Even if it is scam. It's 15$. I'll live with that.

There's no risk with a pre-order, you can put in $5 or $60 on a pre-order but if you don't want the game you can get your money back.

If you believe then pledge if you want to first see game then don't pledge and wait for game.
 

Axiom

Member
As much as I love Leisure Suit Larry and think the series is easily the best adventure game series to come out of Sierra (Okay, maybe GK is on par), if I include Softporn this would be the third version of Leisure Suit Larry 1 I'll play through - one version of which was already an updated remake of Land of the Lounge Lizards.
Just looking at what they've done so far, it seems like a massive step-down from Lowe did in Larry 7, especially taking into account that Larry 1 isn't a very long game and thus the scope of what they have to do isn't even close to what it was for Love for Sail.

Granted they are probably doing the best they can with the budget and it is a work in progress, but Larry 7 was so damn good and full of fun innovative little touches I don't think it's too much to expect something matching at least the production quality of a computer game from 1996.

I'm pledging to support the series, to support Lowe and to hopefully make a future more ambitious Larry project possible, but this isn't exactly what I'd have in mind if you mention the possibility of a Leisure Suit Larry Kickstarter revival.
 

obonicus

Member
What exactly has Kickstarter delivered so far?

There are several completed kickstarter projects, aren't there? It's not just for games. All of them suffer from the 'they now have your money, they stopped caring' notion. If this were a real risk, then kickstarter would be a massive failure. Is it?

You're no longer a "end consumer" when you're paying for it upfront without knowing whether you'll actually receive an end product. You're not even an investor because the party getting the free money is ultimately not accountable to you.

I don't think you understood what I said. Crowdfunding aims to make you, the 'end consumer,' more involved in the production process (by giving you direct say over what interests you as a product, rather than the scattershot approach of traditional funding). Yes, obviously, at that point you're no longer an 'end consumer', but a stakeholder of some sort. You're still mostly an end consumer, since the final result from your perspective is that you'll be given some sort of product.

Also, it's not accurate to say that it's 'free money', or that they don't owe you anything. They do, in fact, owe you whatever reward you selected. If the project succeeds. It's not as airtight as a direct purchase, but it's simply incorrect to claim you get nothing for your money.

There's no risk with a pre-order, you can put in $5 or $60 on a pre-order but if you don't want the game you can get your money back.

The risk I mention is the risk you mentioned: game quality. There's absolutely no guarantee regarding game quality when dealing with large publishers. As I said, GAF is filled with furious posts about reviews they don't agree with.
 

Data West

coaches in the WNBA
Uh, I thought Al Lowe was already out of retirement? He was on GTTV recently talking about the new Larry with Geoff Keighley.

If this is a new trend of Kickstarters for games that have already been partially funded, this thing has officially gotten dirty.
 
It does say that they are going to remake Larry 1-7, and hopefully a brand new LSL 4 as well.

So, since they aren't completely clear... Are they using the 500k for all 6 games, or are they only using it for the first game, and then they will come back to ask for another 500k for the second game and so on?

If you skip the part about Larry 1-7, then it basically says that they will only remake the first game for 500k. That's ridiculous. If it's 500k for all 6 games, then it's acceptable.
 

JDSN

Banned
I assume this shit is gonna make Sierra money, if Yes, fuck them.

Edit: Oh right, they are dead, so Activision owns it now?

Edit2: Oh, they own it, neat, still, its a fucking remake.
 

Perkel

Banned
It does say that they are going to remake Larry 1-7, and hopefully a brand new LSL 4 as well.

So, since they aren't completely clear... Are they using the 500k for all 6 games, or are they only using it for the first game, and then they will come back to ask for another 500k for the second game and so on?

If you skip the part about Larry 1-7, then it basically says that they will only remake the first game for 500k. That's ridiculous. If it's 500k for all 6 games, then it's acceptable.

Probably they want to fund first, earn money and deliver without kickstarter rest if it will be selling.
 
Probably they want to fund first, earn money and deliver without kickstarter rest if it will be selling.

Maybe, but they should be more clear about their intentions for the potential future remakes. If it takes 500k just to finish this remake (they've already started months ago), then it's completely fucked up.
 

Perkel

Banned
I assume this shit is gonna make Sierra money, if Yes, fuck them.

images



They bought license. So remake money will go to theu purse. Someone can correct me ?

nevermind i found it on kickstarter page:

We've already accomplished two of the hardest tasks:

Prying the Leisure Suit Larry license out of the hands of Big Software. DONE!
Convincing Al Lowe himself to come out of retirement for this top-to-bottom re-imagining of his 25-year-old creation. DONE!
 
Another day, another Kickstarter...developers no longer paying for their own games because gamers are warped enough to fund them.

Yet for the amount we fund we get the game plus extra stuff and with many of these devs very little chance of the project failing altogether. I think it's a safe gamble and most of all it's fun.
 

Hex

Banned
My point is that $500,000 might sound like a lot but the end result may be a Liesure Suit Larry game that has been significantly reduced in both length and quality. Teams like this need to get significant corporate funding, not the bare minimum from gamer handouts.

You might be paying for an inferior product.



Not trolling, just giving my opinion of the service and its possible ramifications.

Or the games can be fantastic with no short cuts because they can focus on the game and not pleasing some jack ass in an office who never played the games and never will but reads flow charts that tell him supposedly what people want.
Getting corporate backing means you have more people who you have to please, more people who get to veto things and yell you what you can not do and more people that tell you what is not right for this market.

Let the games do the talking.
Hell, many of the old games can come back pretty much AS IS just with new visuals and updated interfaces and they will make most of us happy whether it is LSL or Baldur's Gate or Eye of the Beholder or anything else.
If you can recreate that with new material? Even better.
Why do you think so many of the original devs are jumping in on these?
Because they can create their visions again.

I do not know why companies these days need to over complicate shit thinking it is for the best.
 
There are several completed kickstarter projects, aren't there? It's not just for games. All of them suffer from the 'they now have your money, they stopped caring' notion. If this were a real risk, then kickstarter would be a massive failure. Is it?

I would like to hear about some success stories through this Kickstarter thing. There is no risk here for Kickstarter or the party seeking the funding, it's free money donated through Kickstarter who pockets 5%.

I don't think you understood what I said. Crowdfunding aims to make you, the 'end consumer,' more involved in the production process (by giving you direct say over what interests you as a product, rather than the scattershot approach of traditional funding). Yes, obviously, at that point you're no longer an 'end consumer', but a stakeholder of some sort. You're still mostly an end consumer, since the final result from your perspective is that you'll be given some sort of product.

What say do you have exactly? Can you withdraw funding if you don't like what you see in the middle of development? And what if you don't get a final product?

Also, it's not accurate to say that it's 'free money', or that they don't owe you anything. They do, in fact, owe you whatever reward you selected. If the project succeeds. It's not as airtight as a direct purchase, but it's simply incorrect to claim you get nothing for your money.

You're operating under the assumption that the product will be completed, what if the project fails?

The risk I mention is the risk you mentioned: game quality. There's absolutely no guarantee regarding game quality when dealing with large publishers. As I said, GAF is filled with furious posts about reviews they don't agree with.

With game publishers, you can pre-order the game at retail, you can get your pre-order money back before you decide to finalize your purchase based on whether or not the game has received good reviews or good word of mouth from your friends, you don't have to pay them a dime if you're not sure about the game.

The "crowdfunding" model basically shifts the development risks to the end users, the question is why does the end user even have to bear that risk?
 
The "crowdfunding" model basically shifts the development risks to the end users, the question is why does the end user even have to bear that risk?


Because publishers won't and the people have taken it into their own hands. If these kickstarter games are successful, it can only be good for everybody involved.

don't fear change, neogaf.
 

Tempy

don't ask me for codes
I love classic Leisure Suit Larry, but I'm kinda surprised that the already announced remake has ended up on Kickstarter. Not sure what to think of this.
 

EviLore

Expansive Ellipses
Staff Member
Separate thread if you'd like to discuss the nature/viability/impact of Kickstarter projects in general. Massive derail in progress.
 

Deadstar

Member
I take a risk every time I eat at taco bell but I ask myself if it's worth the risk before ordering. Even if the results are devastating it's only $7 bucks.

On Topic: I think this could be a fun game. We need more comedy games to be released.
 

sixghost

Member
Uh, I thought Al Lowe was already out of retirement? He was on GTTV recently talking about the new Larry with Geoff Keighley.

If this is a new trend of Kickstarters for games that have already been partially funded, this thing has officially gotten dirty.

Agreed. If this game was already in production before this kickstarter, that's incredibly shady. It's really not what the service should be used for.
 

FoneBone

Member
I would like to hear about some success stories through this Kickstarter thing. There is no risk here for Kickstarter or the party seeking the funding, it's free money donated through Kickstarter who pockets 5%.
Are you serious? There's a huge risk to the funded party's reputation if the product isn't good quality, since they're only answerable to the fans.
 

Polk

Member
Game plus: For a $25 pledge, when the game ships, you’ll receive a handcrafted download link to the complete digital musical soundtrack. Warning: we are not responsible for the theme music getting stuck in your head. But we do sympathize. Plus, you’ll get the $15 reward tier as well: a digital copy of the game. (please add $15 for international shipping)
Am I missing something? Why add $15? Or it's just some joke I didn't understand.
 

FoneBone

Member
Separate thread if you'd like to discuss the nature/viability/impact of Kickstarter projects in general. Massive derail in progress.

Thank god. So sick of every Kickstarter thread turning into the same debates about Kickstarter as a whole (rather than the specific project in question.)
 

El-Suave

Member
$ 500000 for a game that, by its very nature, is pretty limited in its scope (in that the story, script etc. is already there) is a lot to ask.

Also, as many others already said, transparency is key in Kickstarter - this game having already been announced needs to be in the pitch.

I would love to support Al Lowe and other Sierra projects and the pitch video is really nice. I may very well give them my money, but for now I'm cautious with this one.
 

nickcv

Member
I really like that Josh Mandel is helping to write this, he's fantastic. He wrote probably the runner-up greatest comedy adventure game ever, Callahan's Crosstime Saloon. Wrote Freddy Pharkas with Al, too.

I'm just disappointed that this isn't Al Lowe talking directly to us (I guess this is the team that's redoing the first game instead), and that it's not LSL 4 or something new. It just doesn't seem like a good idea creatively to remake the first game, wasn't that great. I was never even into LSL, but I'll do whatever I can to see these two write again. Not the ideal situation, but I'll take it.

ok i don't really get it...

this is a remake, with plenty of dialog already, what is he supposed to write exactly?
 

stabwound

Neo Member
Namedropping the original creators means nothing. It's probably just for publicity and to give the remakes more "credibility."
 

Tellaerin

Member
ok i don't really get it...

this is a remake, with plenty of dialog already, what is he supposed to write exactly?

I'm getting the impression that it's not so much a literal remake as a reenvisioning at this point - that they're taking the basic concept and approaching it fresh, using the freedom that modern hardware gives them to do things they could never have done 25 years ago, while still remaining true to the spirit of the original.

I don't think they'd have bothered pulling a team like this together if all they want to do is give the original game a HD makeover and shove it out the door.
 
As much as I love Leisure Suit Larry and think the series is easily the best adventure game series to come out of Sierra (Okay, maybe GK is on par), if I include Softporn this would be the third version of Leisure Suit Larry 1 I'll play through - one version of which was already an updated remake of Land of the Lounge Lizards.
Just looking at what they've done so far, it seems like a massive step-down from Lowe did in Larry 7, especially taking into account that Larry 1 isn't a very long game and thus the scope of what they have to do isn't even close to what it was for Love for Sail.

Granted they are probably doing the best they can with the budget and it is a work in progress, but Larry 7 was so damn good and full of fun innovative little touches I don't think it's too much to expect something matching at least the production quality of a computer game from 1996.

I'm pledging to support the series, to support Lowe and to hopefully make a future more ambitious Larry project possible, but this isn't exactly what I'd have in mind if you mention the possibility of a Leisure Suit Larry Kickstarter revival.

Exactly how I feel.
 
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