Abstrusity
Member
No anger, not anymore. Not even just disappointment, just cool, calm reflection.
Humanity was a mistake.
Humanity was a mistake.
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Letting Them Die: Parents Refuse Medical Help For Children in the Name of Christ
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cyberheater
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Religion was the mistake.
Yeah. As a father I can't read that and not become pissed at the fuckers for letting their child suffer/die.
Skiptastic
Member
It's sad that this kind of news story is so old, it was an original Law & Order episode from almost 25 years ago.
I cannot understand this. Even though I am a believer, I've never relied on faith based healing. One, Christ isn't even on our planet right now, so even if he's in our hearts, which I believe is figuratively, he's not here in the physical to heal. Most healings it seems in the new testment he touched the people.
God cannot be around sin, which is all around and in us, it's part of human nature. So because of this, you cannot expect him to heal and make the planet better, because even the bible says he creates a New Heaven and New Earth, and it makes sense when you see the world around us fall apart.
At the end of the day, as I believe it, in these situations, all you can do is have faith in God, that this is part of his plan, or at the very least, this is the series of events brought forth by the introduction of sin on this planet from the beginning, and only through trusting God are you offered a chance to escape this sin forever.
Or don't believe any of it. Please, get your kids to the Doctor regardless. If you want to have faith, have faith that God put them there to heal your child.
God cannot be around sin, which is all around and in us, it's part of human nature. So because of this, you cannot expect him to heal and make the planet better, because even the bible says he creates a New Heaven and New Earth, and it makes sense when you see the world around us fall apart.
At the end of the day, as I believe it, in these situations, all you can do is have faith in God, that this is part of his plan, or at the very least, this is the series of events brought forth by the introduction of sin on this planet from the beginning, and only through trusting God are you offered a chance to escape this sin forever.
Or don't believe any of it. Please, get your kids to the Doctor regardless. If you want to have faith, have faith that God put them there to heal your child.
I'll take the thoughts from my own thread:
How THE FUCK is this legal in 2016? How THE FUCK can these people run freely and KILL THEIR OWN CHILDREN and nothing is done in the name of "religious liberty"? How THE FUCK can these people be influential in politics.
This has to be close to the top of my list of things that make me ridiculously angry, probably just behind ISIS
Fuck these parents and fuck the republicans in charge who do nothing
How THE FUCK is this legal in 2016? How THE FUCK can these people run freely and KILL THEIR OWN CHILDREN and nothing is done in the name of "religious liberty"? How THE FUCK can these people be influential in politics.
This has to be close to the top of my list of things that make me ridiculously angry, probably just behind ISIS
Fuck these parents and fuck the republicans in charge who do nothing
Yes, because a child who has not had the time to reach the capacity to make intelligent decisions deserves to die because their parents are stupid.
Fantastic comment, fuckwit.
NealMcCauley
Member
I first learned about this from an episode of Nip/Tuck of all things. I honestly didn't believe people could be so... combination of stupid/insane/evil/delusional until I saw an article a few months later.
Completely aghast, but deep down I'm kinda laughing over the law's roots being in the Nixon administration.
Completely aghast, but deep down I'm kinda laughing over the law's roots being in the Nixon administration.
Captain Pants
Killed by a goddamned Dredgeling
Idaho's legislature is very very religiously biased and I think they see any limits on religious freedom as something that could bite them in the ass. I don't think any of these people have any sway with the state legislature necessarily, as much as you have a governing body controlled largely by mormons, libertarians and tea partiers that will all defend these people for one reason or another.
Abstrusity
Member
No, the propensity to take religious themes to illogical conclusion is the problem. Christianity as it is normally practiced now boils down to "don't be a dick."
It might just be the percocet talking, but the problem is not religion. It is the people.
They must be cured.
Talk to her a bit.
It may be a long shot, but perhaps she can listen to the approach "God works through doctors and all our wonderful advances are his gift", or something of the sort. Remind her about how hospitals have prayer rooms, etc. I hope it works.
Alcoremortis
Member
My first contact with faith healing was a friend who had treatable spina bifida and his parents tried to faith heal it. He survived the faith healing, but I can't believe I even had room to hate it more after that.
Turns out I do.
Turns out I do.
freethoughtbubble
Member
Put me down as one of those that gets too angry over this subject to talk about it calmly.
The only time this isn't second degree murder is if the parents literally lived under a fucking rock their entire lives and knew nothing of modern medicine -- who literally thought it didn't work. Any parent, knowing of a medical procedure or drug that could possibly save their child's life or ease that child's suffering, who refuses that aid because of their own asinine religious convictions, is guilty of gross child abuse at best and knowingly killing that child at worst.
Fuck them, fuck their beliefs, and fuck any politician too stupid or cowardly to take a stand against them.
The only time this isn't second degree murder is if the parents literally lived under a fucking rock their entire lives and knew nothing of modern medicine -- who literally thought it didn't work. Any parent, knowing of a medical procedure or drug that could possibly save their child's life or ease that child's suffering, who refuses that aid because of their own asinine religious convictions, is guilty of gross child abuse at best and knowingly killing that child at worst.
Fuck them, fuck their beliefs, and fuck any politician too stupid or cowardly to take a stand against them.
Commanche Raisin Toast
Member
I think a potential weak spot in the religious protection argument could be that children don't have the mental and emotional capacity/understanding of what religion is to bed able to make an informed choice whether or not they want to participate in a religion.
Thus, the parents forcing anyone under 18 to be subjected to their own beliefs could be grounds for abuse.
Thus, the parents forcing anyone under 18 to be subjected to their own beliefs could be grounds for abuse.
Curious if 'his own lack of faith' is the child's or Hoyt's. The sentence can be parsed both ways.
...at age five
7DollarHagane
Banned
Beyond being evil this has nothing to do with what the Bible or actual Christianity would ever recommend.
This is some kind of twisted interpretation that has nothing to do with the intent of the religion.
This is some kind of twisted interpretation that has nothing to do with the intent of the religion.
Have you actually read the second part of my post?
I had to stop reading very early on. Disgusting stuff.
peaceiscloser
Member
The article was a little confusing -- there's actually two completely separate groups at play here. One is Mariah's family, which are part of a fundamentalist Mormon sect based in Idaho. The rest of the article talks about a church called the Followers of Christ who are a sort of Pentacostal break off based in Oregon.
Disgusting. Faith and prayer is not a replacement for medical practice. I believe in the efficacy of faith and prayer as part of the healing process, being a believer myself, but that's the absolute last (or before you begin procedure) thing you do when trying to resolve health issues. God gives them plenty, and in their holier-than-thou pride they bring themselves to destruction.
Disgusting. Faith and prayer is not a replacement for medical practice. I believe in the efficacy of faith and prayer as part of the healing process, being a believer myself, but that's the absolute last (or before you begin procedure) thing you do when trying to resolve health issues. God gives them plenty, and in their holier-than-thou pride they bring themselves to destruction.
cyberheater
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I kind of agree but religion allows then the legitimacy to continue to justify their nonsense.
Have you actually read the first? It's disgusting and unacceptable.
Lucky Seven
Banned
I just can't read through this. Too much for me.
Captain Pants
Killed by a goddamned Dredgeling
If I remember correctly, a lot of the Followers are now living just on the Idaho side of the Idaho-Oregon border for legal reasons. I could be wrong though.
Count Dookkake
Member
Children should not be required to adhere to the supernatural whims of their parents.
I'm so glad I have a parent who took off work today to pick me up some huge bandages because I stupidly peeled off my hospital dressing too soon after surgery. Of course, these fuckwits would have disowned me for having surgery in the first place.
Absolutely sickening that they're allowed to maim and murder their children in the name of religion.
Absolutely sickening that they're allowed to maim and murder their children in the name of religion.
Abstrusity
Member
If not religion, then they'd use some other half-cocked justification to legitimize it. And it doesn't even need to be legitimized, it just needs to be what they earnestly believe.
They live in a world where empirical data is opinion and anecdote is fact. Religion and the lack thereof will not change it, just like data doesn't change their minds.
They are unfit to exist.
some irreligious people refuse to vaccinate their kids for reasons that are just as stupid
Lightning Count
Member
This makes me both depressed and really angry.
How many kids have died needlessly or suffered crippling injuries as a result of withholding medical treatment because of religious beliefs.
On the flipside we have my Grandmother (Dad's side) who is a lifelong devout Mormon and a big believer in the power of prayer. But whenever anyone in the family got sick or had an injury, she would waste no time in hauling ass to the hospital or doctor's office.
How many kids have died needlessly or suffered crippling injuries as a result of withholding medical treatment because of religious beliefs.
On the flipside we have my Grandmother (Dad's side) who is a lifelong devout Mormon and a big believer in the power of prayer. But whenever anyone in the family got sick or had an injury, she would waste no time in hauling ass to the hospital or doctor's office.
Lister
Banned
By following EXACTLY the same train of logic that got them to the first erroneous conclusion... that is to say NONE.
That's the issue with faith and belief and religion. Because there is no objectivity, or logic or reason that brought you to conclusion X, for some people it's just as easy to come to conclusion X + 1.
Religion is an anchor around humanity's neck, dragging us back as we try to claw our way out of the pit that is superstition and ignorance.
I cannot articulate what I think should happen to the adults withholding medical treatment such as this in a collected manner. For the children in these situations, I hope that they are able to get out of those abusive places. In regards to those who have lost their lifes due to this, I'm sorry that the people who should love you the most failed you and that the government refused to step in. Freedom of religion doesn't mean you can let your child die because faith will heal them of some illness.
No they aren't. The anti-vaccine campaign is just a combination of over-protectiveness, paranoia, and general ignorance of how vaccination and herd immunity works. It's far more rational for someone to say "this disease is practically gone and everyone else is immune" than to say "God will heal literally every single disease and injury".
the effect is the same. they're ignoring the medical and scientific consensus for irrational reasons, while kids are getting sick and dying.
in terms of scale anti-vaxxers are probably worse than these morons.
Lister
Banned
I can't imagine just sitting there watching my child die. It boggles the mind.
Worse perhaps are the stories like the one above, where these people are actually beating and abusing their children simply because reality is, yet again, showing them that faith healign doesn't work.
They'd rather beat their dying children than confront their delusions.
Worse perhaps are the stories like the one above, where these people are actually beating and abusing their children simply because reality is, yet again, showing them that faith healign doesn't work.
They'd rather beat their dying children than confront their delusions.
Lister
Banned
Well it's likely these morons are also anti-vaxxers.
God that's hard for my brain to even process. Those fucking monsters.
You didn't say the effect was the same, you said the people are "just as stupid" which simply isn't true.
well sure, but most anti-vaxxers aren't doing it for religious reasons
similarly, most religious people have no problem with medicine. blaming this on religion in general is missing the point, it's this particular ideology and its political support that's the problem.
thelatestmodel
Junior, please.
Please stop posting. You sound like a Facebook post.
i said their reasons are just as stupid. believing the mmr vaccine causes autism is as bad as thinking that god works through rancid oil to heal broken bones.
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