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[robosllim]

Religion was the mistake.

Humans are inherently drawn to religion. There will always be those who simply need religion in their lives (as well as those who will use it as a tool, but that's a different discussion). As long as those people exist, there will be fringe groups who bastardize the core teachings to the extreme. And if you ban religion, something will fill the void.

In other words, crazies gonna crazy.

 

[Lister]

well sure, but most anti-vaxxers aren't doing it for religious reasons

similarly, most religious people have no problem with medicine. blaming this on religion in general is missing the point, it's this particular ideology and its political support that's the problem.

I don't think so. As I mentioned above, it's a natural symptom of religion, and blind faith.

There is no more nor less willfull ignorance in most of what religious people believe than in what these idiots do, hell, there's almost certinaly mosre similarities than not. Ultimately when you raise osmeone to believe in something despite evidence to the contrary, to take things on faith, without reasoning through the data, you WILL get people who do this kind of shit.

It is inevitable.

For many people, once their brains are set to work in that way, it's just as easy to convince them to perform some silly, harmless rituals, or even somethign good, as it is to convince to do something insane and harmful, for the simple fact that it's all irrational.

 

[Slackbladder]

I can't really say what I really think. Let's just say that these 'parents' would be begging for medical assistance.

 

[Osahi]

Have you actually read the first? It's disgusting and unacceptable.

With the second i nuance it. And i actually said: if i was cynical. You can pull anything out of context and change the message

There is no way any body in his right mind would not mourn or be angry abouth the death of those kids.

 

[Ekdrm2d1]

.

People that are willing to let their kids suffer in the name of their 'religion' are scum and unfit to be parents.

This would happen to me if I married homegirl.

But God says..

 

[aeolist]

I don't think so. As I mentioned above, it's a natural symptom of religion, and blind faith.

There is no more nor less willfull ignorance in most of what religious people believe than in what these idiots do, hell, there's almost certinaly mosre similarities than not. Ultimately when you raise osmeone to believe in something despite evidence to the contrary, to take things on faith, without reasoning through the data, you WILL get people who do this kind of shit.

It is inevitable.

but you will always find people doing stupid faith-based shit outside of religion. the organization and codification of beliefs isn't the problem as much as the beliefs themselves are.

everyone has some amount of irrationality in their psyche, it's part of being human.

 

[Garlador]

People pray for a miracle...

And God gives you a doctor with decades of training, experience, and knowledge, modern medical wonders that can fix and cure once-incurable and inoperable diseases, conveniently located a car-trip away, with entire buildings erected as hospitals to care and tend to and heal the infirmed and sick.

THAT IS YOUR F***ING MIRACLE.

 

[Lister]

but you will always find people doing stupid faith-based shit outside of religion. the organization and codification of beliefs isn't the problem as much as the beliefs themselves are.

everyone has some amount of irrationality in their psyche, it's part of being human.

True, irrational belieefs are the issue, Religion is just the codification of these.

 

[Lister]

People pray for a miracle...

And God gives you a doctor with decades of training, experience, and knowledge, modern medical wonders that can fix and cure once-incurable and inoperable diseases, conveniently located a car-trip away, with entire buildings erected as hospitals to care and tend to and heal the infirmed and sick.

THAT IS YOUR F***ING MIRACLE.

Really? God did that? That's interesting. Might need to look up that chapter in Gray's Anatomy.

 

[aeolist]

True, irrational belieefs are the issue, Religion is just the codification of these.

exactly. pinning blame on the general idea of religion is tilting at windmills. you have to fight specific ideologies to get anywhere.

in this case as well as anti-vaxxers, political pressure is the solution.

 

[Scrooged]

People pray for a miracle...

And God gives you a doctor with decades of training, experience, and knowledge, modern medical wonders that can fix and cure once-incurable and inoperable diseases, conveniently located a car-trip away, with entire buildings erected as hospitals to care and tend to and heal the infirmed and sick.

THAT IS YOUR F***ING MIRACLE.

But that's literally the opposite of a miracle.

 

[zeemumu]

People pray for a miracle...

And God gives you a doctor with decades of training, experience, and knowledge, modern medical wonders that can fix and cure once-incurable and inoperable diseases, conveniently located a car-trip away, with entire buildings erected as hospitals to care and tend to and heal the infirmed and sick.

THAT IS YOUR F***ING MIRACLE.

Pretty much.

 

[Deleted member 13876]

There's a Babylon 5 episode that was about this scenario. Just mentioning it because I thought it provided good commentary on the issue.

 

[SkeptiMism]

Absolutely saddening to see. And not just those people doing this for their children, but the lawmakers allowing it.

What I think is also sad is how there are quite a lot of people who think this is infuriating but then at the same time, apply very similar thinking to other things, such as praying the gay away.

 

[googleplex]

But that's literally the opposite of a miracle.

Dude I think you understand the point he was trying to make.

 

[pelicansurf]

Yep, beating the shit out of a kid with a broken ankle and calling him a fag. Seems like a sweet religion.

 

[tpfkanep]

Jesus wept.

 

[CitizenVectron]

In Canada the courts have been pretty consistent that parents are not allowed to hold back required medical care from children. There have been a few cases in recent years where Christian parents have wanted to not treat cancer in their children, and in those cases the courts have taken the child from the parents and forced treatment.

Recently in the province of Alberta some really cooky Christian parents had their toddler develop meningitis and die because they only would go to a naturopath. The kid died and the parents are being charged for it (though not the naturopath, unfortunately).

 

[Hale-XF11]

“I would wake up to my step-dad, my uncles and the other elders of the church kicking me and beating me, calling me a fag, because I didn’t have enough faith to let God come in and heal me, while my mom and my aunts were sitting there watching. And that’s called faith healing.”

What in the living fuck? And this shit is the law of the land?

Wow. Ok then.

 

[ElTorro]

True, irrational belieefs are the issue, Religion is just the codification of these.

We shouldn't downplay the influence of religion. While believing things on insufficient evidence is the general issue, you would not hear things like the following for any kind of irrational belief.

“Republicans didn’t feel the need to change the laws. We believe in the first amendment to the constitution. I don’t think that states have a right to interfere in religions.”

When pressed on the fact that children are dying unnecessarily as a result of exemptions, Heider makes an odd comparison.

“Are we going to stop Methodists from reading the New Testament? Are we going to stop Catholics receiving the sacraments? That’s what these people believe in. They spoke to me and pointed to a tremendous number of examples where Christ healed people in the New Testament.”

Society approves insanity as long as it labels itself "religion", or at least grants it an unwarranted amount of respect. Parents would not get away with child abuse like this if they claimed that aliens are healing their children through intergalatical communicators. But as soon as you claim that you base your superstition on religions doctrine, which in the case of Christianity is at least as silly as my alien example, you get a free pass from idiots like that Republican. Even at more moderate levels of acceptance of religion, society still shots itself in the foot by granting fanatics their basic premise: that talking to an invisible Jew who allegedly lived over 2000 years ago can actually change physical reality.

 

[Griss]

People pray for a miracle...

And God gives you a doctor with decades of training, experience, and knowledge, modern medical wonders that can fix and cure once-incurable and inoperable diseases, conveniently located a car-trip away, with entire buildings erected as hospitals to care and tend to and heal the infirmed and sick.

THAT IS YOUR F***ING MIRACLE.

Yeah it's the classic religious story of the guy in the flood that gets passed around on office emails.

A terrible storm came into a town and local officials sent out an emergency warning that the riverbanks would soon overflow and flood the nearby homes. They ordered everyone in the town to evacuate immediately.

A faithful Christian man heard the warning and decided to stay, saying to himself, “I will trust God and if I am in danger, then God will send a divine miracle to save me.”

The neighbors came by his house and said to him, “We’re leaving and there is room for you in our car, please come with us!” But the man declined. “I have faith that God will save me.”

As the man stood on his porch watching the water rise up the steps, a man in a canoe paddled by and called to him, “Hurry and come into my canoe, the waters are rising quickly!” But the man again said, “No thanks, God will save me.”

The floodwaters rose higher pouring water into his living room and the man had to retreat to the second floor. A police motorboat came by and saw him at the window. “We will come up and rescue you!” they shouted. But the man refused, waving them off saying, “Use your time to save someone else! I have faith that God will save me!”

The flood waters rose higher and higher and the man had to climb up to his rooftop.

A helicopter spotted him and dropped a rope ladder. A rescue officer came down the ladder and pleaded with the man, "Grab my hand and I will pull you up!" But the man STILL refused, folding his arms tightly to his body. “No thank you! God will save me!”

Shortly after, the house broke up and the floodwaters swept the man away and he drowned.

When in Heaven, the man stood before God and asked, “I put all of my faith in You. Why didn’t You come and save me?”

And God said, “Son, I sent you a warning. I sent you a car. I sent you a canoe. I sent you a motorboat. I sent you a helicopter. What more were you looking for?"

Hey jackasses - this is you.

 

[Alligatorjandro]

I can't believe people like this exist

 

[Replicant]

How about we send them to jail? I'm saying this as a lapse Catholic. Fuck these assholes.

 

[Arkeband]

This thread just came at the 'right' time. My neighbor's Son is sick and I asked if he's been taken to the doctor and she goes "god first and doctors second". And yes I live in the Bible belt.

This pissed me off. I was so tempted to take the boy to a hospital myself but i don't want to get arrested for taking someone else's kid. Or put her in a situation where she loses her kid, she seems like a hard working single mom. Religion just makes us very irrational creatures.

Call CPS, she's going to lose her kid if the kid dies.

 

[Funyarinpa]

This is the sort of thing that almost makes me wish hell existed

 

[ohlawd]

Or put her in a situation where she loses her kid, she seems like a hard working single mom. Religion just makes us very irrational creatures.

I understand this but man, I just think of the worst possible outcome and say "nah, forget the mom. she doesn't matter here"

I'd call the right people and hope they can take the kid

 

[Catatafish]

Could not finish reading the OP. This shit pisses me off.

 

[blitzkrieg184]

Religion is literally the single worst thing that happened to the world. Embarrassing. Fuck Christianity.

 

[Vestal]

This is the sort of thing that almost makes me wish hell existed

If it does exist every single one of these fucking parents and legislators will end up in it.

I truly cannot believe how weak minded some human beings can be, that they are led to believe that faith healing is real, but yet God can't stop war, innocents being killed, plagues etc..

But if some how they pray and the Hurricane misses their state "OHH GOD heard our prayer, prayer works", if its hits then "prayer still works but, thy will be done"..

 

[SpecX]

This is beyond stupid. As a parent, I want to do everything possible to make sure my child doesn't have to suffer and people like this don't deserve to be parents.

 

[robosllim]

But as soon as you claim that you base your superstition on religions doctrine, which in the case of Christianity is at least as silly as my alien example, you get a free pass from idiots like that Republican.

I would love to see a Muslim sect try to pull this same shit. They'd have their houses raided faster than you can say "shariah law".

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

.

People that are willing to let their kids suffer in the name of their 'religion' are scum and unfit to be parents.

I lost my shit (and not in the good way) when they fucking blamed the baby dying on the baby itself.

Really? God did that? That's interesting. Might need to look up that chapter in Gray's Anatomy.

.... they were saying that, if those people actually gave a shit about their faith, they would view a doctor being there as a miracle.

Don't be a dick just because religion. Jesus fucking Christ.

 

[CharminUltra]

Just horrible. Damn.

 

[Easy_D]

Refusing aid for your child in a way that causes them harm or worse, their death, should be punishable by law.

 

[Ensoul]

These parents are insane and don't really care about their children if they believe praying will help a broken leg or a hole in a heart. Honestly how is this any different than not providing food for kids if they are hungry?

Until the kid is 18 and is old enough to make their decisions on their own it should be required that parent provide healthcare to their kids.

 

[Bonfires Down]

Crazy that there are still six states where that is legal.

 

[diffusionx]

Sad that sick kids need to go to the doctor is another part of the culture war these days.

The article says that the infant mortality rate is 10X the rest of the state. Idaho has a 5.6 per 1000 mortality rate. 10X that would put it up near Haiti, Kenya, and Yemen. Just for perspective.

 

[JZA]

.

People that are willing to let their kids suffer in the name of their 'religion' are scum and unfit to be parents.

I'm curious where to draw the line with "suffering", I feel like this should also extend to parents forcing kids to attend religious schools and services.

 

[Barrylocke]

I lost my shit (and not in the good way) when they fucking blamed the baby dying on the baby itself.

I think they were blaming the 5 year old boy who was holding the baby. Which is still really messed up. No wonder he starting doubting at such a young age.

 

[Captain Pants]

If you want to get more upset, you can read about Peaceful Valley Cemetery.

Of the 553 marked graves at Peaceful Valley Cemetery, 144 appear to be children under 18. That's more than 25 percent.

Those deaths happened primarily in three different counties, which are manned by three different coroners who aren't bringing the information to the public.

 

[Anion]

And these same people spout about religious sharia law being implemented by Obama - while they protect their own horrendous rituals

 

[EatinOlives]

“Because Erlichman and Haldeman were Christian Scientists, they had inserted into the law a provision that said those who believe that prayer is the only way to cure illness are exempted from this law,” he said.

What a bunch of fucking bullshit.

You can't claim "religious exemption" to give you a carte blanche to straight up torture and kill your own child. It's pure child abuse and the assholes who put this provision in have all the blood of these kids in their hands.

 

[Mathieran]

Where the fuck are all the conservatives going on about common sense when you need them! God dammit

 

[Stinkles]

But that's literally the opposite of a miracle.

Well it depends on interpretation. The poster is offering it as a spiritual carrot to parents who will otherwise murder their child with a scriptural stick.

I'm ok with that.

If every religious person accepted science and nature as complex acts of God I'd be fine with that too since there'd be no line of conflict.

 

[shiba5]

If you want to get more upset, you can read about Peaceful Valley Cemetery.

Pretty telling that the guy they try to interview immediately goes off on Muslims and how Christians are persecuted. Because gee-whiz people think them killing their kids is wrong, but this is 'murca and FREEDOM something something. Gross.

 

[Kinitari]

In Canada, this isn't legal... But there is a confusing gray area, aboriginals.

There were a few cases last year where aboriginal children with treatable cancer were being shipped to Florida for woo healing, and the government was trying to figure out what to do about it. If I remember correctly, one of the children died before intervention, and the other child was intervened on in time and is now in remission.

Regarding faith healing, I wonder where the line is. At what point is it negligent? What if it's an ear infection that someone treats with homeopathy, and the ear infection permanently damages the child's hearing? I don't know what the rules are in Canada with cases like that, but I know what they should be.

How about preachers/practitioners of faux healing? Should the homeopath who prescribes water for an ear ache be culpable for the child's hearing, because the treatment was never going to work and it misleads people into a level of harmful complacency?

 

[WeAreStarStuff]

Change the law and throw these parents under the jail. It's one thing to allow your absurd religious beliefs to harm yourself, but to harm someone that can't defend themselves.....

 

[GaimeGuy]

http://childrenshealthcare.org/?page_id=24


Fuck

 

[Monocle]

This subject gets me too angry.

Yep.

 

[ohlawd]

http://childrenshealthcare.org/?page_id=24


Fuck

I stopped reading after 47 states have religious exemptions from immunizations. and that's the first fucking line. I don't need to check the rest. there's probably more batshit insane exemptions for all states.