So either you can help me understand why ethnic preference is "obviously" innate, or your examples can keep getting more absurd. I'm not a taste bud expert. And Ryan Gosling is way overrated, I agree.So basically preferences can't be innate because that's a simple explanation. Yeah...
Is it the same with food, for example? Do I love mustard and hate ketchup because of cultural standards imposed on me somehow at some point? Or maybe my brain reacts differently to particular attributes in flavor - nah, too simple. See, gender roles are cultural - you are literally told that you shouldn't cry because you're a boy, that you shouldn't be loud and playful because you're a girl. But preferences?
Is it cultural that I can't stand Ryan Gosling and other people think he's most attractive human being on Earth?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
LGBThread |OT3| Friends of Dorothy!
- Thread starter Sai-kun
- Start date
- Status
"Ethnic preferences" are just preferences for select traits that are present in one or more ethnicities. For example - If you're into thicker, taller guys with lots of facial hair you might not be a fan of the common latino or asian type.
Or the alternate explanation - culture told you to not get a boner when you see latino or asian guys.
You see my examples as absurd, but it's exactly the same as the mustard example If you like strong, stingy flavors you'll like mustard. If you like sweet, tame flavors you'll like ketchup. It's not rational, it's not deliberate, it's not a choice, it's not cultural.
Or the alternate explanation - culture told you to not get a boner when you see latino or asian guys.
You see my examples as absurd, but it's exactly the same as the mustard example
If you like strong, stingy flavors you'll like mustard. If you like sweet, tame flavors you'll like ketchup. It's not rational, it's not deliberate, it's not a choice, it's not cultural.In any case that's not Snake's issue since he -is- attracted to people from him country, isn't he? His straight crushes and all?
I just think we can have preferences, even if they're strong, and I don't think culture puts them there. Gender roles are cultural - you literally get told "don't cry! boys don't cry!". No one EVER tells you "feet are attractive, guys with glasses are cute, dark hair is pretty!". In the cases of fetishes BTW I'm not finding any support for the theory that they're cultural. It makes sense because people tend to have similar or downright the same fetishes all over the world in all cultures.
Let's put it this way, if we make the highly unethical experiment of isolating a child from any human contact whatsoever, would he or she really have sexual tastes, or even a sexual orientation?
We can't really separate culture and sexuality because sexuality is intrinsically a social experience, the culture of a society plays a big role in how people relate to each other. We only need to see how fetishes and sexual desirable traits change over time. Take glasses for starters, when they were first invented they were considered awful and incredibly embarrassing to wear, a sign of someone unhealthy and awkward, with time they gain acceptance and popularity and now they are not only fashionable, but sexy! I do understand there are some basic primitive instincts that society can do little to change (and sexual orientation might be in that group), but things like "curly hair is sexy!" is a complete fabrication of the society you grew up in. You found it appealing because society showed it to you that way.
And I disagree people tend to have similar (much less the same) fetishes in all cultures. Thanks to globalization what is consider sexy has started to be more homogeneous indeed, but even then if you look closely there are stark differences, take Japan's fetishism of innocence, cuteness and childish behaviors for example. Over there a woman to be appealing does all those things that make her look more innocent and child-like. However in the west that would be considered awkward and undesirable, because it shows immaturity.
Edit: Or let's take your native Mexico, or Latinamerica for that matter, the preference for Caucasian race is not a coincidence or random event at all, it stems from colonial times and the complete dominance of European races as well as the segregation of native and black slaves, we are bombarded constantly by these prototypes of beauty in all media in existence, magazines, TV, films, etc, etc, etc.
Instagramless here and I haven't really used FB in a while (I do have some of you there, though, and that's how I keep in touch with a few), but I am finding Twitter to be freaking entertaining and useful, specially when GAF goes down during E3.
That flickr photostream is AMAZING!
That flickr photostream is AMAZING!
Yes, he would even if he will never discover them.
People who are born in North Korea's labor camps don't know any other flavors other than cabbage soup and corn. The people who escape and are exposed to different food -of course- will find their favorite food items (lol, I've been watching a lot of NK documentaries and one of them is precisely about a guy in this situation).
Sex is instinctive, all sexual species know by default how to reproduce. A dog will hump your leg even if he hasn't had contact with another dog, this is a thing that happens.
Sexuality is social and we're inherently, innately sexual. We don't learn to be sexual, we don't learn to like boys or girls, we absolutely DON'T learn to like one specific kind of boys and girls.
Glasses - I can describe why I like them. They add a bit of "sharpness" to a face, I find. They add symmetry, and there's this idea of the "dorky" guy with glasses which I am attracted to. So maybe society put the "dorky" stigma there in the first place, but society absolutely DIDN'T tell me to find it attractive. Most people don't.
And lol, man, I prefer guys with straight hair (not exclusively, of course! but is a trait I find attractive). I apologize for finding it silly that you think I was instructed to
Don't you have a thing for bald guys? Do you think culture instructed you to find bald guys attractive? Is that the same for everyone in your culture?
You should add me on Twitter :O
There was literally no ethnic/racial diversity in any of these pics.
Disappointing
Marc Mojo is the only hot one there tho and he has 1 pic.
Blood Diamonds
Banned
Cry with me.
Send me a PM with your @
I would post mine, but I don't like how it's easily traceable.
I wouldn't mind to add a few extra people from GayGAF
Sob...I would at least like to be good friends with him.
BTW you are all awesome people. Seriously.
dragonlife
Member
I only ever had a crush on a straight guy once, back in high school. I just told him through MySpace (shows how long ago it was) because I didn't like how it felt. I didn't even know the guy and could have just kept quiet... but like I said, I didn't like the feeling of having a crush and, admittedly, I'm a bit of a masochist. Just a bit.
He was really nice about it, and I eventually got over it. Seeing him at school was only just a tiny bit awkward afterward. A little awkwardness never hurt anyone, though!
He was really nice about it, and I eventually got over it. Seeing him at school was only just a tiny bit awkward afterward. A little awkwardness never hurt anyone, though!
Not surprising
Aeriscloud
Banned
Jubei, you post the best pics, fix this fiasco.
Yes it is, but to make it less insane, I have decided to remove my favourite for the good of the chat.
I will miss you Jamie, we had our moments but deep down we knew our love was strong
Who was Jamie here?Yes it is, but to make it less insane, I have decided to remove my favourite for the good of the chat.
I will miss you Jamie, we had our moments but deep down we knew our love was strong
You should meet single gay guys. It's easy to get over our infatuation of someone when we know and see that there are other people who could actually reciprocate our crush.
He wasn't a gaffer. He lives by me, and my boyfriend added him to the chat a year ago and he's been rubbing people the wrong way ever since.
Anyway less Jamie talk more hot guys talk. I'll start it off.
That's hot
Mystic Theurge
Member
"Ethnic preferences" are just preferences for select traits that are present in one or more ethnicities. For example - If you're into thicker, taller guys with lots of facial hair you might not be a fan of the common latino or asian type.
Or the alternate explanation - culture told you to not get a boner when you see latino or asian guys.
You see my examples as absurd, but it's exactly the same as the mustard example
You're not denying that culture is an influence, right? Or should I link to the black doll/white doll thing.
VICTORsaurio
Member
Yes!. When we were getting ice cream (it was one of those sef-service places) I grabbed both of our cups to pay for them. He got his wallet out too but I told him I got it
I was a bit annoyed because after we finished it he said "let's go" and I'm like "Where?". I would have definitely stayed there a bit longer (just to keep talking) but I drove around the city for a while while we chatted. I dropped him off, we shook hands and he told me to write when I got home, so I did.
I asked him if I lived up to the expectations (from my IG pictures) and he said I did, I told him he did too.
It worries me slightly that he's 30 and doesn't have a job (and apparently does nothing) but according to his IG pictures he just graduated from College not too long ago so I guess it's not THAT bad. He told me he was going to start doing a post-graduate soon. Also he told me he's planning to move to the capital to become a Drug Rep (which I guess makes sense since he's hot) so he seems to be a bit all over the place.
We'll see where this goes! I'm trying to take it easy.
Also he doesn't like chocolate or sweets (WHAT IS WRONG WITH HIM????)
Maybe they only like the white doll because ketchup told them to, or something.
A guy i have been chatting with for a while on grindr sends me a pic, comes out he's insanely cute, now i'm scared a s fuck to send my photo to him, jesus the feels (
Haven't done this in a while, i was better without this fuckin app, ugh
And yeah, i went offline as soon as he sended the photo, wich probably made things already awkward for him
WHY THE FUCK I AM SUCH A PUSSY WHEN IT COMES TO THIS
*rant over*
(Haven't done this in a while, i was better without this fuckin app, ugh
And yeah, i went offline as soon as he sended the photo, wich probably made things already awkward for him
WHY THE FUCK I AM SUCH A PUSSY WHEN IT COMES TO THIS
*rant over*
CornBurrito
Member
I always assumed grindr was less an app where you talk to some dude for awhile, and more casual sex with anybody in an X mile radius.
Naked Snake
Member
Yes, and in that context I'd never chat with anyone for a while without exchanging pictures early on. It's a recipe for inevitable disappointment and potentially hurt feelings.
Even not just for casual sex, the concept of chatting with a stranger who you assign any sexual or romantic potential to for any length of time without seeing what they look like should be abolished from the internet.
Cute first date!
That was sad. Our environment/culture has a lot to do with shaping our perceptions though.
Why don't you have your face as your pic? I don't reply to torsos if I don't see a face pic.A guy i have been chatting with for a while on grindr sends me a pic, comes out he's insanely cute, now i'm scared a s fuck to send my photo to him, jesus the feels
Haven't done this in a while, i was better without this fuckin app, ugh
And yeah, i went offline as soon as he sended the photo, wich probably made things already awkward for him
WHY THE FUCK I AM SUCH A PUSSY WHEN IT COMES TO THIS
*rant over*
Those kids are attributing positive / negative traits to those dolls based on race, yes, that's racist and indeed culture-imposed. But an adult simply having a preference for certain physical attributes over others is not. This "you have to find EVERY SINGLE MALE attractive or you're racist and it's offensive" attitude is downright silly and this comes from someone who (as already mentioned) doesn't have this "problem" of being attracted only to one ethnicity.
Honestly, is it any different from being attracted to a certain build, for example? Again, someone into buff guys is going to find me rather unattractive. It's not offensive, it's not cultural, it's just that people both within the same cultures or from different cultures tend to have personal taste in men. And in everything. Our brains aren't perfect factory-made blank slates that are all the same just waiting for culture to tell us what should cause a boner on us and what shouldn't.
Honestly, is it any different from being attracted to a certain build, for example? Again, someone into buff guys is going to find me rather unattractive. It's not offensive, it's not cultural, it's just that people both within the same cultures or from different cultures tend to have personal taste in men. And in everything. Our brains aren't perfect factory-made blank slates that are all the same just waiting for culture to tell us what should cause a boner on us and what shouldn't.
tali'zorah84
Member
Oh yeah, I kinda subtly came out as bi to a friend today. I pulled the whole "I don't really care about gender" thing while doing it though.
Also, my hair is dark blue/black now.
Also, my hair is dark blue/black now.
Not wanting to date a guy because of his skin colour does seem racist on some level to me, because basically when you say you'll never date someone of race X, you're implying that nomatter what build he is, what his interests are, how cute or handsome he is or how nice his butt looks, his race negates anything else you may find attractive about him.
If you judge someone purely by their skin colour, that is racist. That's what racism means.
Not all black men look the same for example, not all white men look the same either. Writing off an entire section of society simply due to their skin colour/ethnicity is narrow minded at best and racist at worst, depending of course on one's motivations for writing off a particular race.
If you cannot see how much your experiences throughout your life (including the presentation within society of particular races as the most admired, be it by the media or attitudes within your community) influence attraction then you're ignorant to the fact of how much humans are shaped by their upbringing and their experiences.
The gay subculture loves labels and fetishising particular niche groups within the community. It often runs counter intuitive to the ideas of community and inclusion.
Maybe if everyone was a bit more accepting and didn't hold such ridiculous standards they'd actually be able to find a boyfriend.
I find an open mind and a open heart much more admirable than 'Sorry, no blacks' or 'I only date Asians'.
CornBurrito
Member
We can agree to disagree. I like my men au naturel.
This is true, but it's also not what I think a lot of people mean when they say they mostly like one particular ethnicity. In saying you prefer X traits that are commonly present in X ethnicity (because for real, that's something that happens), I truly don't see anything wrong, and it's quite different from saying you won't date anyone from one particular race just for belonging to such race.
Caucasian features are the most admired features here in Mexico, yet I don't find them any more attractive than say, features on Asian or Latino guys. Why wasn't I "brainwashed" like this? And I'm hardly the only one. I have an aunt (who is rather light skinned herself) who claims she only dated dark skinned men, and eventually married one. This issue is so full of exceptions and assumptions that it falls apart in my eyes.
We see this as particularly stingy because we can't decide or change our ethnic traits - but right here you can see Sai-kun "drooling" over dyed hair while CornBurrito thinks that's not attractive. But this is perceived as harmless, because anyone can decide to dye their hair or not.
runlikehell
Banned
What film is that from?
Following this and a bit of alcohol, i just came out to my mom, still not quite sure how it happened lolA guy i have been chatting with for a while on grindr sends me a pic, comes out he's insanely cute, now i'm scared a s fuck to send my photo to him, jesus the feels
Haven't done this in a while, i was better without this fuckin app, ugh
And yeah, i went offline as soon as he sended the photo, wich probably made things already awkward for him
WHY THE FUCK I AM SUCH A PUSSY WHEN IT COMES TO THIS
*rant over*
Hysterical. So if there are identical twins that are super hot and one is white the other is black you tell me that you would only pick the white one because of his skin color? That's what I'm talking about. It's definitely cultural especially in the gay community. You almost NEVER see racially diverse people in the media or any form of entertainment. Gay couples usually shown are white men. White is considered the dominant attractive race. Y'all should TRY dating outside one race and expand. There is NO problem to me if you prefer a certain type over others but WRITING off everyone else who is different and basically not worth your time is just a damn mess.
Filth
OOP didn't see this.
YASSSS
READ THEM DOWN SIS
Filth
OOP didn't see this.
YASSSS
READ THEM DOWN SIS
Mystic Theurge
Member
Can you try to refute arguments without making ridiculous strawmen?
Race and Build aren't equivalent. Further, I would say that culture does influence whether one is attracted to a certain build.
If you're asking me, nope, lol. I've already mentioned I'm not part of the "no [race] allowed" crowd. I have also already mentioned how I'm not defending that position at all - I feel like people are not reading my posts. My arguments are that it's fine to have preferences, and that these preferences shouldn't be attributed to cultural brainwashing. I honestly can't believe people don't accept the idea of innate preferences exclusively when it comes to sexual attraction.
BTW how does this twin thing work? If I were to have, say, an Asian twin then he wouldn't look very Asian at all, lol.
We're on the same page, then? What's the issue here?
Average male height in Indonesia: 5 ft 2 in
Average male height in Denmark: 6 ft 0 in
If you're into taller guys you're being racist in this case? You people are the ones seeing only the labels, and not the traits. We are attracted to traits, and different people have different traits.
Build and heights are different things girl. Build relates to muscles and can be changed, not height (or not that much) nor skin color.
Also there are tall Asian and Black men.
But you don't have innate preferences beyond "male, female, either, or neither." Your preferences are absolutely informed by your cultural context. This doesn't mean that you are "brainwashed"; it means that you are human and as a human you are a social animal, which means that you unconsciously adopt at least some of the beauty standards of your culture. These standards can be changed over time - think of the way that make-up became de rigueur for women, or the way that contemporary bodybuilding in the late nineteenth century with men like Eugen Sandow helped to transform the male aesthetic. Or just look at the way that changes in preferences for facial hair, body hair, weight, or male and female hygiene have changed. And this obviously also applies to issues of race. It is entirely possible to have preferences that go against the grain; I'm sure people have always had preferences that were different from the societal norm they lived in. That doesn't change the fact that in any society there are normative beauty standards and that most people's taste in that society adheres to those standards.
You seem to take this approach of, "I am an island and I come to all my preferences all by myself and am completely uninfluenced by anything around me," and it's simply not realistic.
Wikipedia says build is also height, I always had that concept as well. And if a guy likes tall guys then I'm guessing he won't have a problem with tall Asian or Black guys?
Can you recommend any text on this? It's pretty intriguing to me because in my experience it's absolutely not the case - and precisely because I don't think "I'm an island" is why I think we have innate preferences on pretty much everything. We -know- we instinctively like familiar features, this can be observed even in babies. But that's completely non-sexual and more of a survival instinct
My boyfriend and I decided to get tested together (for everything), since it's been six months for me and much longer for him.
I don't think I have anything to fear personally, always been low-risk. Terrified all the same, as always. First time at the hassle-free men's clinic in Toronto. Really intense experience doing it this way. They deliver results within half an hour, same day.
I don't think I have anything to fear personally, always been low-risk. Terrified all the same, as always. First time at the hassle-free men's clinic in Toronto. Really intense experience doing it this way. They deliver results within half an hour, same day.
Can you recommend any text on this? It's pretty intriguing to me because in my experience it's absolutely not the case - and precisely because I don't think "I'm an island" is why I think we have innate preferences on pretty much everything. We -know- we instinctively like familiar features, this can be observed even in babies. But that's completely non-sexual and more of a survival instinct
I can't think of anything off the top of my head, though I'll try to think of something later.
And yeah, liking familiar features is instinctive - but what those familiar features are isn't. For instance, we know that babies generally prefer female faces... except for those rare babies who have single father parents. Those babies prefer male faces.
So maybe you could say that sexual preferences work similarly; there's a level at which it works instinctively, but how it is expressed is dependent on both one's immediate social context and larger cultural context.
People complain I post too many Asian guys
I wonder what cultural or environmental thing that caused me to like Asian guys. No one in my family ever dated an Asian person before and most gay Black men I've met never once liked Asian guys. Wonder why I am so different in that. It sucks at times since the majority of Asian guys likes.........
I'm going to watch some Koh Masaki videos right now big sigh
- Status
Similar threads
- Poll