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LGBThread |OT3| Friends of Dorothy!
- Thread starter Sai-kun
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I had to look out he lyrics, and oh wow, you are absolutely right
. Why didn't I think about that?User 73706
Banned
I just got home from MEPS and oh god my eyeballs feel like they're bleeding i'm so tired.
I got 97th percentile on my test scores though, so I was applicable for just about every job in the registry!
I got 97th percentile on my test scores though, so I was applicable for just about every job in the registry!
also i've read my fair share of achievement hunter fanfiction
umop_3pisdn
Member
Stuff like that can be fun but it's like the mental equivalent of junk food, you feel kind of shitty and demoralized afterwards.
Blood Diamonds
Banned
This confirmation thing is a fucking waste of time, wish it could fucking end already.
The things I do for my Mom *Sigh*
The things I do for my Mom *Sigh*
CornBurrito
Member
The actual lyrics or what people mishear them as?
Now I face out
I hold out
I reach out to the true of my life
Seeking to seize all the homo men to now break away
All the lesbians can you let me out
Can you set me free from this [something] in the world safe in the last beat in the soul
I don't really remember what I used to do in those confirmation classes but I always wished that teachers would not come just to go back home and play more Melee
Yes, you confirm your faith in god and the catholic religion in general. Basically in my case it was lying
eKongDiddy
Member
Ok I need some advice from you guys. How many of you guys go to church regularly or is baptized? How did you guys deal with being gay and being a Christian? I kind of feel like I'm lying about being a Christian because of my sexuality, but it go to church every Sunday and read my bible at least one a week.
I used to go to church regularly, and I was also baptized when I was a baby. I wasn't a real Christian because I didn't really believe in it, so there was nothing to deal with really. Do you actually have Christian beliefs, or do you just show up to church and go through the motions?
Blood Diamonds
Banned
Well, if that's what you really believe then I say you should continue to believe.
Then again I have never opened a bible in my life and fell asleep at Church last Sunday so idk
Ah, I've heard of it before, but I'm Methodist so I've never done such a thing.
Well I won't lie, deep in my heart I occasionally worry if being bisexual is a sin. However I also believe that God is loving and forgiving.You can't change your sexuality anyway. I think Heaven is in everyone's destiny. If it is a sin I don't doubt the big guy upstairs would forgive me, and if it's not a sin then all is well. Have you talked with your local religious leader?
Oh, and to answer the other part of your question: I'm not baptized yet, but plan to do it in the summer.
So you don't change your sinful ways because you think God won't really mind too much? You can't change your sexuality, but you can definitely choose not to take part in sinful acts.
I'm baptized, but have nothing to deal with personally. I grew up in the catholic school system and went through baptism/communion/confirmation/reconciliation/whatever else but I along with most friends fell out of it pretty quick.
True. I suppose in that way I'm no different than most Christians.
eKongDiddy
Member
I recently started going to church, but I do believe in it and try to follow the bible as best as I can.
I'm afraid to talk to my pastor or youth leader about it. Only my closest group of friends know about it.
Why are you afraid of confiding in either of those two? Do you think they'd judge you harshly? If your friends are Christians you can always relate your fears to them. In general, I don't feel that it's ever healthy to hold these kind of troubles in. They spill out eventually.
Because the world doesn't work like a dating sim.
umop_3pisdn
Member
Also seeing people as objects instead of individuals lessens the majority of the meaning in having a relationship that isn't cheap or grossly self indulgent.
I think you can depending on how you read the text. I think people have to have some degree of moral agency to determine what is 'right' and faith shouldn't mean simply deferring to authority without self-examination, but I'm not a Christian so I may be injecting my own values into this.
Boy, that made me feel shallow. I probably deserve it though. When it comes to guys, I'm really not that picky. I just want a boyfriend.
Not a faith that openly and strongly opposes homosexuality. No offense to anyone, but it blows my mind when gay people want to be Christian.
umop_3pisdn
Member
Sorry, I wasn't trying to make you feel that bad. I think a lot of people just want a boyfriend but in the process they miss what being in a relationship has to offer. If there isn't a particular person that you want to be with it's all kind of meaningless, otherwise you're just imagining this vague and amorphous blob of 'boyfriend-ness', like a living body-pillow you can comfort yourself with, it's kind of empty and hollow. I think most people feel that way at some point, and I don't really know you or how much this applies to you if at all, but it makes sense to be critical of what we want and what is really there that's of substance before we make ourselves terribly upset over what is essentially nothing.
Sure. I don't think the two conflict. Church doctrines may say one thing, but how we interpret religion is a pretty subjective and personal thing.
Well, it's the interpretation game. It's pretty easy to cherry pick scriptures against pretty much whatever you want while conveniently ignoring others, Westboro style.
^ Precisely:
I don't get this. Isn't Christianity supposed to follow the bible? If the bible says shrimps are evil, they are evil. If you're a Christian, of course. I don't understand this cherry picking. You might as well look for a different faith if you're not following the rules of Christianity.
It's all really in how it is presented and interpreted, otherwise women should also be appalled at the thought of being Christian. If they can reconcile that I don't see why some gay people can't reconcile it as well. I'm talking mainly about the Bible of course.
Catholicism at least doesn't follow literally the Bible, and I think major factions of Christianity don't, is only those garage churches that use that selective quoting to get their ignorant parishioners into fanatics. No one can actually follow the Bible literally, it's impossible, and probably illegal.
So basically conveniently ignoring the stuff they don't like. I don't see what's the point, then, but that's just me.
umop_3pisdn
Member
For an argument just off the top of my head, you can regard the text as much as a cultural archive as it is a religious text. Generally religions have certain elements or tenets that you can see as 'essential', elements that don't change or only superficially change within any iteration of said religion, and if these aren't preserved then the 'religion' is not preserved in any way that is concerned with meaning. I don't really see anyone claiming the thing about shellfish as an integral aspect. If someone does go against the 'essence' of the religion, then yes you're right to question their actual devotion to it.
Not everyone interprets the Bible in the same manner. The rules and how they apply to our everyday life isn't universally agreed upon. One of the struggles of being a modern Christian is that you're essentially trying to adapt a very old moral code for a modern world. I wouldn't really call it cherry picking.
I know. When I was a kid I clearly recall idiot priests spitting sexist and ignorant stuff at church. Willingly going through that? Why? I'm not indoctrinated, I don't have to shield religion irrationally from reality. If it's bullcrap I'll say it out loud, it's bullcrap.
It's cherry picking because you choose to interpret it so it coincides with your personal beliefs. And you have to be very creative to find a non homophobic interpretation of the bible's stance on homosexuality, lol.
Double post :/ You people are too slow, it's your fault.
Well, if you're going buffet-style already It's not that hard to gloss over that stuff all together if it doesn't jive with the rest of your personal beliefs. Just as you wouldn't take the bit that says you should cut your own hand off for sinning at its word, among many other verses.
Blood Diamonds
Banned
I've wanted to ask my Mom what's the point of me doing the confirmation thing if I'm not gonna get married... but she'd have a heart attack so :V
Yeah, I just think it's silly. "This matters, this doesn't - I decide
I'm such a good Christian".umop_3pisdn
Member
No, cherry picking suggests a selfish agenda. There's a faculty called discernment that we all have and which is devoid of such an agenda, which we can use to accumulate wisdom. It isn't cherry picking to extract what wisdom you can from a supposed source of wisdom, that is literally the only viable course. The alternative is throwing out or failing to consider what may actually be of value, which is foolish; or neglecting your own judgement and believing for the sake of conformity, which is devoid of meaning. If a person claims to have faith, that is likely due to a very complex set of ethical and logical reasoning which suggests to them that they see it as appropriate at this point in time. All you really need to know is that last part.
Sometimes people operate under faulty premises, or lack understanding of their motivations, or whatever, but if a person is actually trying to understand in an honest way what their worldview should be, it seems ridiculous to question scrutiny of all things.
Yeah, I just think it's silly. "This matters, this doesn't - I decide
lol, I think that applies to much of human morality honestly.
umop_3pisdn
Member
While I agree, there is no other alternative. We have to adopt ethics for our own reasons and see the meaning in it for ourselves, otherwise ethics is just some paternal figure threatening us with a stick. It's like the difference between discipline and self-discipline, it really doesn't mean much if you're only doing it because of some outside controlling influence.
Funny enough I'm currently reading Sucking Sherbet Lemons which deals with this sort of thing but in a comedic fashion.
Haven't finished, and it certainly isn't for everyone. Mostly due to it being set in the 1960's and having references to things in the 1960's/earlier than that for most people like me born in the 80's but it's a decent story otherwise about someone with conflicting emotions about being gay and wanting to be "pure" in their faith.
I need to find the out of bring sequel: Stripping Penquins Bare, and the sequel to that: Yanking Up the Yo-Yo before even thinking of finding a copy of Benson at Sixty
Rm88~ said:
Not really. I forget the refuting evidence or whatever but it's basically "the bible doesn't explicitly mention homosexuality so..."
(Yes yes, "blah blah blah... sin to lie with another man" blah blah blah... that's what I'm talking about. Forget the stuff people use for that)
But anyway, interpretating the bible in modern times is stupid. There's so many things (like stoning) people don't do now a days. That and add in that it's been translated through so many different languages and times... and yeah... I wouldn't take it at face value.
I'd say you can be gay and religious but you interpret your religion in your own mind view.
...Or, optionally: Everyone just goes Buddhist. Which frankly is the only "religion" I'd consider following if I was going to say I was religious. It has the right idea about life and treating people with respect and all that.
(Of course some controversy on that because of different "sects" and viewpoints in it but for the most part the majority voice in Buddhism is "treat everyone with respect as you want to be treated" which should be a view everyone in life holds, not just Buddhists)
umop_3pisdn
Member
Yes. No
Salvation through Christ is essential, eternal damnation isn't and is something that varies quite wildly across various interpretations.
As I said I'm not a Christian, their soteriology doesn't do it for me, but there is some nobility to it. I think you're trying to set up an impossible hypothetical by trying to remove independent thought from faith, never do we operate in the complete absence of the former, the two aren't nearly as antithetical as you're suggesting.
^ Wat. It's basically accept Haysoos or go to hell.
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Well, I repeat, if stoning, slavery and homophobia are not okay, then let's discard the religion that thinks those things are okay. Having a personal interpretation automatically involves a bias. That's not Christianity anymore, you're not following the rules anymore. It's having a religion for the sake of having a religion.
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Well, I repeat, if stoning, slavery and homophobia are not okay, then let's discard the religion that thinks those things are okay. Having a personal interpretation automatically involves a bias. That's not Christianity anymore, you're not following the rules anymore. It's having a religion for the sake of having a religion.
How is following some rules of a religion not following a religion?
Why is it black and white for you? Why can't you be a Christian that thinks salvation through Christ is possible but being a homosexual doesn't damn you to an entire lifetime of fire and brimstone?
Again: Religion is what you make of it. Some people want to follow the bible strictly and that strictness means they interpret a 1000+ year old book that isn't relevant to modern times. If that makes them happy, cool. So long as they aren't out to kill you they aren't harming you.
Just like if someone thinks you can be saved through the following of Christ which is basically saying the same thing as Buddhism in a "hey, don't treat others how you want to be treated. And don't be a bad dude in general" ruleset, how is it they aren't following that main rule-set/religion because they think being a homosexual doesn't damn you to hell?
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure Christianity is entirely based on its religious text (as opposed to say, Shinto). Well, the book says X is wrong, and it was inspired by God. Who do you think you are to dismiss his rules?
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