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[LOCK]

When'd you guys drop the 'love' bomb with your SO's?

After all these years, I'm finally in a relationship with someone that might be veering toward that territory. It's only been around 4 months, but I can see this going on and going on well.

For me personally, if I can tolerate somebody for a month then I have to be in love.

Only you can judge your relationship about whether telling him will help/hurt.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

I don't think I've ever seen you be sincere in this thread.

I have my moments.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

That voice...is not what I expected to come out of his mouth.

Kind of boner killer tbh.

Well I thought it was pretty hot. >_>

His real voice is in this video.

 

[daripad]

Well I thought it was pretty hot. >_>

His real voice is in this video.

Oh well, not what I expected but still is fine

 

[Magnus]

For me personally, if I can tolerate somebody for a month then I have to be in love.

Only you can judge your relationship about whether telling him will help/hurt.

It's at a strange point where I almost feel stupid not saying it when we bail and head off to school/work. It's almost spilled out a couple times on instinct. I catch myself, then ask myself later, what would be so bad if I said it? If it's instinctual, it's how I feel right? It's just a word?

'I like you a lot' sounds bizarre at this point. 'I care about you a lot' sounds weirder.

I dunno. Never done this before. Confused.

 

[FerDS]

It's at a strange point where I almost feel stupid not saying it when we bail and head off to school/work. It's almost spilled out a couple times on instinct. I catch myself, then ask myself later, what would be so bad if I said it? If it's instinctual, it's how I feel right? It's just a word?

'I like you a lot' sounds bizarre at this point. 'I care about you a lot' sounds weirder.

I dunno. Never done this before. Confused.

Well it is just a word, but then again everything else is. The word has different levels of significance for different people; I think it's important to not only consider how you fell about it but also how the other person does. For example, if you think it will be of little importance to him/her and you have almost said it instinctively already, you probably should do it. But if you know it's a big deal to the other person, you might want to be absolutely sure you mean it.

That's the hard part about relationships, trying to figure out what the hell is going on in the other person's head, and taking it in to consideration when acting, but without forgetting about yourself.

 

[Amibguous Cad]

There's no need for us to start tacking fetishes and other sexual minorities onto LGBT; that slippery slope is already visited by the anti-LGBT rights side daily and it makes us cringe with good reason. Your arguments here and in the other thread aren't particularly thought-provoking, but an awkward attempt to tack your fetishes onto a monumental battle for human rights to garner further approval for them. I understand why as you've made it clear BDSM is a huge part of your life and not just something you do in the bedroom, but don't expect to hitch a ride when there is no shared struggle for human rights. Anyone can already BDSM, scat, swing & spit-roast to their heart's content; shared discrimination and social stigma ≠ shared human rights struggle.

You once posted your ideal relationship is a 3-5 person gay poly family, so any remotely relevant comparison would have to lie there; however, any struggle you try to make analogous would be the struggle for two consenting adults to have their relationship recognized and--unlike "traditional", same-sex and interracial marriages--there are no laws in place that take into consideration a relationship of more than two people, inherently requiring poly to be a separate movement.

To be clear, it's not as if I'm advocating tacking on a "K" at the end of our alphabet soup acronym (I wouldn't want to even if it did make some analytical sense; ask transpeople how being a tacked on letter has worked out for them), I'm just advocating for a bit of intersectionality. People whose primary work is advocating for civil rights on the basis of race don't need to concern themselves overly with the struggles of gays and lesbians. What I would ask them to do, however, is not undermine parallel struggles for equal rights and acceptance by treating oppression as if it were some finite resource or playing oppression olympics (and let's be honest guys, blacks got us beat there). I know it makes you boil in anger when you see a black person dismiss the blindingly obvious parallels between the two struggles, even if they differ in some important ways, and even if one can concede that one group's suffering may in fact be less than another's in important ways. In brief, I'm not asking for your help. We got a good thing going with the NCSF. Just don't tear us down as we march towards the same things you guys are fighting for because you think it'll win you a few brownie points.

It is not in fact true that anyone can already practice whatever sexuality they want. For one thing, kink is of uncertain legality in many circumstances, and there are at least a few Stonewallesque high-profile raids and arrests of kink events. Despite the best psychological evidence indicating that there is absolutely no comorbidity with other mental disorders, and despite the fact that they can be practiced safely between consenting adults, many activities within the BDSM world remain diagnosable as a mental disorder for no reason other than prejudice and animus. Perhaps most importantly, 24% of kinksters report losing a job over their sexuality. I can move to a Seattle, a San Francisco, a New York and be reasonably certain my job at least won't be threatened for my gay sexuality, and there are even a few states that explicitly forbid such discrimination. Where the hell am I supposed to go to get job security concerning my kinkiness? Seriously, a career as a sex educator or worker is highly tempting to me precisely because those are some of the few professions I know where my kinkiness won't be a liability but an asset. And that's where the struggles are blindingly similar, in this important respect if in no others. How can you, as a gay man, not have your heart go out to someone who lost their job because of their sexuality? If you've ever been closeted, don't you feel that tinge of panic when you think you see someone you know as you're walking into a gay club?

I'm not even sure that it's accurate to say that I've made BDSM "a huge part of my life" outside of the bedroom. It pretty much takes place just there, and a few semipublic spaces where people like me congregate. I would be thrilled if I could leave it there. The closet is intolerable for gays because it concerns who we love; the closet is perfectly fine for kinksters because what we do with our partner(s) is no one else's business. But everyone else made an issue that should be private public when they started arresting us and firing us.

Hm, I've never had to argue these points before, so bear with me - this may be a little scatter-brained.

I don't think that kinks and fetishes (I'll just refer to them collective as fetishes now) are similar to sexuality and gender on any appreciable measurement. I think, both psychologically and socially, there's quite a large difference between the two that the recognition of one shouldn't be rolled or compared to the other.

Socially, there's been a far greater history of organized and instituted oppression and discrimination against sexuality and gender than for fetishes. I'm hard pressed to think of systematic categorizing, identifying and persecuting for people who enjoy spanking or BDSM as I can for LGBT individuals. This history, I feel, separates the two and makes the acceptance and recognition of LGBT issues far more important and far more pressing. There are lots of holy texts which dictated and shaped the laws and punishments of societies that have viewed LGBT individuals as abominations suitable only for torture or death. I mean, the Qu'ran and Bible are readily available to demonstrate the issues and the institutionalized discrimination that even perpetuates to this day where LGBT citizens are treated as lessers in the eyes of the law comparative to their heterosexual, heteronormative brothers and sisters.

But for fetishes, I don't see the same issues. You aren't forbidden from seeing your partner in spanking or BDSM in the hospital because of your activities. You aren't exempt from tax deductions because you enjoy licking your partners feet. You don't have Biblical passages that exclaim "Thou shalt not get freaky in rubber suits."

And personally, I don't think they carry nearly the same weight either. Psychologically speaking, we identify ourselves in numerous and varied ways. But I don't believe that each of these aspects of ourselves share equal strength. I see myself as a white, male, writer but each of those identifiers is far more important to my self identification. I think your gender and your sexuality are far more "core" to your personality than other attributes. Liking men and identifying as a man carry far greater psychological weight than seeing myself as someone who writes.

In this way, I don't think fetishes hold up either. If someone says "I don't approve of your writing lifestyle" it is far less hurtful than someone saying "I don't approve of your homosexual lifestyle." In much the same way, if someone were to say "I don't want to hear about your spanking" I don't think is anywhere near as offensive as "I don't want to hear about your lesbianism."

Writing and spanking, while part of our self identity, are more actions we perform than things that we are. I am a male. I do spanking.

As for the importance to sexual gratification, I think they also aren't comparable. I feel that, if deprived of all sexual activity, if you were faced with two hypothetical options of whether being able to have a sexually compatible partner compared to having a sexual compatibly fetish, the partner is far more important. If I've been stranded on a desert island, being faced with only a man who won't participate in spanking is going to have less impact on sex than being faced with only a woman.

So, what does that leave us with? Stigma? Well, yes, I suppose fetishes and gender/sexuality are both stigmatized but I don't think they're anywhere close to being appreciable. And if we're only tying them together because they are stigmatized well, so are a lot of other things and it would be silly to include them all in the same "struggle" because they share this one, broad similarity.

Also, no, I don't think that because a fetish can be a mental disorder it makes it more comparable to homosexuality. I wouldn't compare other mental disorders to homosexuality either. Because homosexuality isn't a mental disorder.

Edit: Not entirely sure what I should be taking from this survey. I don't think fetishes need "rights" and I don't have an issue with someone being told to not share their bedtime activities. I think that's the crux of it. Fetishes play solely to your actions during sex whereas orientation impacts your life in far more aspects beyond the bedroom.

Edit: Edit: Thus, I don't think LGBT issues should be conflated with kink/fetishes because it detracts from the overall conversation. Once again, I apologize for the messy, diarrhea of thought in this post.

This is a textbook example of oppression olympics and treatment of oppression as a finite resource. Even conceding that one struggle is more pressing than the other, I hardly see how undermining strictly logical comparisons between the two in order to protect the sanctity of your own helps. Structural inequalities between the third world and the first world are almost certainly more important, in terms of aggregate human welfare, than what comparatively privileged sexual minorities in rich western countries face, but anyone pointing that out to a gay rights activist is a massive dick that's more interested in asserting the predominance of their own suffering than in making the world a better place.

Similar to a black homophobe angrily disclaiming an affinity between the civil rights struggle and gay liberation, we have a listing of differences between the movements that, I think anyone can agree, are important. Gays were never enslaved; blacks face supportive communities rather than the closet. Gays must be out of the closet to be safe; the primary goal for kinksters is to make their closet nice and comfty. No analogy is perfect. But that doesn't change the fact that the movements are based on a broad set of shared principles and moral intuitions. And that those who ascribe to those principles should adhere to them, political consequences be damned.

 

[Mr. F]

It's at a strange point where I almost feel stupid not saying it when we bail and head off to school/work. It's almost spilled out a couple times on instinct. I catch myself, then ask myself later, what would be so bad if I said it? If it's instinctual, it's how I feel right? It's just a word?

'I like you a lot' sounds bizarre at this point. 'I care about you a lot' sounds weirder.

I dunno. Never done this before. Confused.

I think this is a case where overthinking the semantics of the word or the connotations behind it can lead to some confusion and second-guessing how you feel. As with most other things, it's not a one-size fits all situation; there's no ruleset as to how long you should be seeing someone before feeling a certain way. Don't bother comparing your feelings against how you think you 'should' feel in any given stage of your relationship.

That said, go with your gut. If you feel strongly enough about the person to the point where you can define it as love, you'd certainly know it. As FerDS said, the important thing is to make sure you and your partner are on the same page as the word can have some baggage or pressure if your SO isn't quite there yet (as nice as it may be to express). At least, that's my 2 cents.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

So, like, those bike short pictures (you all know the kind I'm talking about) are always so awkward looking aren't they? Why don't they redesign the shorts so the guys' junk doesn't look all squished and gross?

 

[lunch]

That said, go with your gut. If you feel strongly enough about the person to the point where you can define it as love, you'd certainly know it. As FerDS said, the important thing is to make sure you and your partner are on the same page as the word can have some baggage or pressure if your SO isn't quite there yet (as nice as it may be to express). At least, that's my 2 cents.

And to expand on that, if the guy is at all worthwhile, even if the feeling isn't entirely reciprocated, I can't imagine he'll be rude about it. As long as you're okay with the sentiment not being shared, I can't see how it would hurt, and you might be pleasantly surprised!

 

[King Endymion]

I was supposed to update how everything went this weekend. Well, it didn't. I never got there, things went down, I got mad, we didn't speak for four days and then we kinda agreed that it would never work out anyhow. Good to know, I guess, but I still feel like crap.

 

[RatskyWatsky]

I was supposed to update how everything went this weekend. Well, it didn't. I never got there, things went down, I got mad, we didn't speak for four days and then we kinda agreed that it would never work out anyhow. Good to know, I guess, but I still feel like crap.

I'm sorry things didn't work out they way you had hoped. He was an asshole though and you're better off without him.

 

[BeesEight]

This is a textbook example of oppression olympics and treatment of oppression as a finite resource. Even conceding that one struggle is more pressing than the other, I hardly see how undermining strictly logical comparisons between the two in order to protect the sanctity of your own helps. Structural inequalities between the third world and the first world are almost certainly more important, in terms of aggregate human welfare, than what comparatively privileged sexual minorities in rich western countries face, but anyone pointing that out to a gay rights activist is a massive dick that's more interested in asserting the predominance of their own suffering than in making the world a better place.

Similar to a black homophobe angrily disclaiming an affinity between the civil rights struggle and gay liberation, we have a listing of differences between the movements that, I think anyone can agree, are important. Gays were never enslaved; blacks face supportive communities rather than the closet. Gays must be out of the closet to be safe; the primary goal for kinksters is to make their closet nice and comfty. No analogy is perfect. But that doesn't change the fact that the movements are based on a broad set of shared principles and moral intuitions. And that those who ascribe to those principles should adhere to them, political consequences be damned.

Yes, of course, this is totally an oppression Olympics. How blind of me.

I immediately apologize to all kinksters in this thread. I am, apparently, the new Jeffrey.

 

[DR2K]

No more dating for a while, going to focus on the gym.

 

[Amibguous Cad]

Yes, of course, this is totally an oppression Olympics. How blind of me.

I immediately apologize to all kinksters in this thread. I am, apparently, the new Jeffrey.

You are welcome to cede the mantle of Stonewall to the new insurgents.

Enjoy your 2.5 kids and white picket fence in the suburbs. Leave behind those who made it possible with a clean conscience. We'll still be fighting.

 

[Ahasverus]

No more dating for a while, going to focus on the gym.

Bro do you even lift... a sandwich :O You look beeeefed up how could you want more gym :3

 

[DR2K]

Bro do you even lift... a sandwich :O You look beeeefed up how could you want more gym :3

Food goes to my ass. I want abs and an even bigger body, I got a little lazy with my boyfriend, but ended that.

 

[Fimbulvetr]

I was supposed to update how everything went this weekend. Well, it didn't. I never got there, things went down, I got mad, we didn't speak for four days and then we kinda agreed that it would never work out anyhow. Good to know, I guess, but I still feel like crap.

Too bad it ended up that way. For all the cynicism I displayed I was still hoping it would work out.

Bro do you even lift... a sandwich :O You look beeeefed up how could you want more gym :3

There's always room for more muscle, son.

 

[Lucario]

is DR2K gaygaf's Boss Doggie? I need to get caught up. Missed too much of the queer BLT thread.

 

[umop_3pisdn]

You are welcome to cede the mantle of Stonewall to the new insurgents.

Enjoy your 2.5 kids and white picket fence in the suburbs. Leave behind those who made it possible with a clean conscience. We'll still be fighting.

You come across as pretty self-congratulatory here. There are parallels but they're categorically distinct (though not unrelated) movements.

 

[DR2K]

is DR2K gaygaf's Boss Doggie? I need to get caught up. Missed too much of the queer BLT thread.

Nah I'm not that type of bitch.

 

[Cosmic Bus]

No more dating for a while, going to focus on the gym.

How does one even get started with a gym? The fitness thread is so stupidly impenetrable, and you can't exactly learn how to properly use weights by reading a book or website. I have no gym-going friends, either. Ugh.

Doesn't help that the only centers here are either like $300/mo or are falling apart and disgusting.

 

[King Endymion]

Too bad it ended up that way. For all the cynicism I displayed I was still hoping it would work out.

Me too, I guess I was seeing things through rose-tinted glasses. ^__^
At least he explained that he has some huge issues with his ex-girlfriend and his son as well as extreme money issues, I guess it's something.

 

[Lucario]

How does one even get started with a gym? The fitness thread is so stupidly impenetrable, and you can't exactly learn how to properly use weights by reading a book or website. I have no gym-going friends, either. Ugh.

Doesn't help that the only centers here are either like $300/mo or are falling apart and disgusting.

Falling apart and disgusting isn't the biggest deal in the world. The people going to those gyms (unless they're something LUNK ALARM-y and lame like a Planet Fatness) are usually serious about their goals, and it's good to be surrounded by motivated people.

 

[Deleted member 30609]

How does one even get started with a gym? The fitness thread is so stupidly impenetrable, and you can't exactly learn how to properly use weights by reading a book or website. I have no gym-going friends, either. Ugh.

Doesn't help that the only centers here are either like $300/mo or are falling apart and disgusting.

I've been doing P90X at home and found its a great place to start. Decent short-term results, good primer for what makes a good workout, decent nutrition plan, etc

 

[DR2K]

How does one even get started with a gym? The fitness thread is so stupidly impenetrable, and you can't exactly learn how to properly use weights by reading a book or website. I have no gym-going friends, either. Ugh.

Doesn't help that the only centers here are either like $300/mo or are falling apart and disgusting.

I started off by walking in the park, doing instructional videos with light weights online helps big time, then I moved up to the gym and got knee deep into fitness. I treat fitness like a game, only the princess is the other castle and I keep on jumping.

 

[Lucario]

I started off by walking in the park, doing instructional videos with light weights online helps big time, then I moved up to the gym and got knee deep into fitness. I treat fitness like a game, only the princess is the other castle and I keep on jumping.

tongue the chimney or what? I'm lost.

 

[DR2K]

tongue the chimney or what? I'm lost.

Mario reference for moving goal posts.

 

[Sagitario]

I was going to say "stop being a creep " but I took a pic of a steamy bartender so nvm

Everybody has probably done it or wanted to at least once.

#3 - Threaten to deport her.

Spoiler

If applicable.

OK. This got me!

DAT CRAIGERY MORGAN!

 

[Amibguous Cad]

You come across as pretty self-congratulatory here. There are parallels but they're categorically distinct (though not unrelated) movements.

All I know is that BeesEights' antecedents were too busy fucking their straight wives in the 70s to do much for the broader movement. Meanwhile, it was the queers, the fairies, the queens, and yeah, the kinky, who were rioting and made all this possible.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

Everybody has probably done it or wanted to at least one.

I admit that I wanted to do this once but thankfully remaindered myself that I have a shutter sound enabled in my phone (you can't disable this shit on an unrooted Android phone, which I had back then).

All I know is that BeesEights' antecedents were too busy fucking their straight wives in the 70s to do much for the broader movement. Meanwhile, it was the queers, the fairies, the queens, and yeah, the kinky, who were rioting and made all this possible.

Oh come the fuck on. Don't start this shit here.

 

[Sagitario]

I admit that I wanted to do this once but thankfully remaindered myself that I have a shutter sound enabled in my phone (you can't disable this shit on an unrooted Android phone, which I had back then).

It depends on the phone (for example: Samsung phones). If you put the phone on silence mode, the shutter sound is disabled.

 

[lunch]

It depends on the phone (for example: Samsung phones). If you put the phone on silence mode, the shutter sound is disabled.

What are you doing. Why are you giving tips on this. Who have you become.

 

[Cosmic Bus]

I've been doing P90X at home and found its a great place to start. Decent short-term results, good primer for what makes a good workout, decent nutrition plan, etc

Yeah, I've done similar home programs before and did okay with them, but no one's going to put on any noticeable mass with them. I figure at this point bulking up is the only thing I haven't tried, so lifting was going to be something to get into this year, but it just isn't attainable in my situation.

 

[Dead Man]

DAT CRAIGERY MORGAN!

It's like the gods knew I was getting unbanned today. Glorious. He does need to be a bit older though.

 

[Mr_Zombie]

It depends on the phone (for example: Samsung phones). If you put the phone on silence mode, the shutter sound is disabled.

I'll have to check it out (I have a new unrooted phone right now) but on my old phone, before it was rooted, even when the phone was on silence mode the shutter sound was still there. It is enforced by a local law IIRC (probably to prevent creeps from taking photos ). Even the "disable shutter sound" option doesn't work in the app I use right now.

Yeah, I've done similar home programs before and did okay with them, but no one's going to put on any noticeable mass with them. I figure at this point bulking up is the only thing I haven't tried, so lifting was going to be something to get into this year, but it just isn't attainable in my situation.

Have you thought about a personal trainer? Someone who would simply show you lifting basics and teach you techniques? Because if you master techniques it's very easy to do the rest on your own.

 

[Sagitario]

What are you doing. Why are you giving tips on this. Who have you become.

¡TU PADRE!

 

[Rayis]

Let's go chest hair lovers

 

[Sagitario]

I found this to be highly cute and entertaining: deshommesetdeschatons.tumblr.com :3

 

[Cosmic Bus]

Have you thought about a personal trainer? Someone who would simply show you lifting basics and teach you techniques? Because if you master techniques it's very easy to do the rest on your own.

It's very cost prohibitive, though. The expensive gyms have them available (for additional money, duh) and the bad gyms don't seem to.

 

[Necromanti]

It's very cost prohibitive, though. The expensive gyms have them available (for additional money, duh) and the bad gyms don't seem to.

I know the YMCAs have weight-lifting classes and the like you can take.

 

[Cosmic Bus]

Hm, I could look into that. I wonder if the Y has a weight for that could be used regularly...

 

[hateradio]

Cosmic at the YMCA . . . sounds like a 70s comic.

What are you doing. Why are you giving tips on this. Who have you become.

He is the stalker stalker who stalks.

 

[Cosmic Bus]

I'm broke. Gotta find these opportunities on the cheap. The YMCA is probably going to be even filthier and run-down than the crappy gyms, but at least it's more affordable.

 

[Necromanti]

I also believe that you can apply for a discounted rate as well, but I am not entirely certain how that worked. I guess I'm glad I didn't have to use any YMCAs in downtown Seattle and its neighborhoods when I used to go, though. D: Hopefully, they're not that bad...

 

[Pyrokai]

To everyone who replied to me:

I haven't forgotten about you and I've read every response! I want to take the time to have a proper response and I've been quite busy lately. Just know that I'm thankful and I'm not ignoring you. Should reply later today.

 

[Amibguous Cad]

Oh come the fuck on. Don't start this shit here.

Why shouldn't I? Respectable gay society is perfectly fine with sloughing off the chrysalis that made their dreams to respectability possible. Just don't expect the desiccated husks left behind to be too happy about it.

 

[Alcoori]

Why shouldn't I? Respectable gay society is perfectly fine with sloughing off the chrysalis that made their dreams to respectability possible. Just don't expect the desiccated husks left behind to be too happy about it.

You are being ridiculous right now. These issues may be similar but they are not the same and having a kink does not prevent you from anything. 24% got fired from their job? What the fuck were they doing? Wearing a dog collar and going around on all four? Talking about how they got fisted last weekend?

When'd you guys drop the 'love' bomb with your SO's?

After all these years, I'm finally in a relationship with someone that might be veering toward that territory. It's only been around 4 months, but I can see this going on and going on well.

The first time I said it to a boyfriend was after 9 months and it was during a fight. He's to this day still the only person I've said it to, because it takes me a LONG time to get there and I have not had 9+months relationships this then.

I've been doing P90X at home and found its a great place to start. Decent short-term results, good primer for what makes a good workout, decent nutrition plan, etc

Great long-term results in my own experience. I think you might be able to bulk up doing it, but you'd have to use big weights.

 

[BeesEight]

All I know is that BeesEights' antecedents were too busy fucking their straight wives in the 70s to do much for the broader movement. Meanwhile, it was the queers, the fairies, the queens, and yeah, the kinky, who were rioting and made all this possible.

Fight the good fight, precious.

Yeah, I've done similar home programs before and did okay with them, but no one's going to put on any noticeable mass with them. I figure at this point bulking up is the only thing I haven't tried, so lifting was going to be something to get into this year, but it just isn't attainable in my situation.

Yeah, I'd love to bulk up too but don't have the equipment, money or knowledge. Keep us updated with your progress!

It's like the gods knew I was getting unbanned today. Glorious. He does need to be a bit older though.

You're back! Let me bust out the welcome balloons.

Me too, I guess I was seeing things through rose-tinted glasses. ^__^
At least he explained that he has some huge issues with his ex-girlfriend and his son as well as extreme money issues, I guess it's something.

Well, I'm sorry it didn't work as that always sucks. But I really do think it's best this way. The guy was giving off a lot of warning signals so short time loss is better than long term pain.

 

[btkadams]

sure as hell don't say it after four month

omg

Is this serious? Haha. The point for me has usually been around 3 months.

Edit: well, by that point I would have been spending most of my time with them, so it would have been way beyond casual dating. I'm probably cray cray. Although, my current bf definitely said it way before me.