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LGBThread |OT4| We're (still) Here! We're (still) Queer!

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A

Aarglefarg

Member
Scher said:
I've always been under the impression that queer, nowadays, is more a term that represents those who wouldn't typically fit within the gender binary.
Click to expand...
Non-binary people regarding gender are covered under "queer", with "genderqueer" being specific term.
 
K

Kater

Banned
I feel so weak though, seeking help. A guy who is working there (treating mentally ill patients) meant that I'm a 'little bitchl because I cut myself. I don't know. :/

^Austria. Maybe I'm just overly* cautious,

* If that is the right term
 
M

mantidor

Member
El_Gato said:
I feel so weak though, seeking help. A guy who is working there (treating mentally ill patients) meant that I'm a 'little bitchl because I cut myself. I don't know. :/

^Austria. Maybe I'm just overly* cautious,

* If that is the right term
Click to expand...

Are you ok? how did you cut yourself?
 
R

RatskyWatsky

Hunky Nostradamus
El_Gato said:
I feel so weak though, seeking help. A guy who is working there (treating mentally ill patients) meant that I'm a 'little bitchl because I cut myself. I don't know. :/

^Austria. Maybe I'm just overly* cautious,

* If that is the right term
Click to expand...

Oh. Well, if you think you need to call, then call.
 
B

Blood Diamonds

Banned
El_Gato said:
I feel so weak though, seeking help. A guy who is working there (treating mentally ill patients) meant that I'm a 'little bitchl because I cut myself. I don't know. :/

^Austria. Maybe I'm just overly* cautious,

* If that is the right term
Click to expand...
First of all, that guy is a fucking asshole
now, if you don't feel safe right now you should probably call them or be cautious, you really can't be overly cautious with these kind of things.
 
B

BlueBadger

Banned
YoungBlade said:
First of all, that guy is a fucking asshole
now, if you don't feel safe right now you should probably call them or be cautious, you really can't be overly cautious with these kind of things.
Click to expand...

I agree with everything here. If you're worried, there's no harm in calling. It doesn't make you weak!
 
B

BlueBadger

Banned
El_Gato said:
Don't know. Maybe they think I am not up to the challenge.

Thank you blue badger, YoungBlade and RatskyWatsky for wasting your time on me.

@manticor With a Wilkinson razor blade.
Click to expand...

It's not a waaaaaaaaasteee!! ;___;

We all have to look out for each other :3 that's what GayGAF's all about
 
B

Blackstarhat

Member
Sai-kun said:
LGBT pretty much encompasses most of the chat and discussion that happens here.

Do we have any queer-identifying users who are feeling excluded by it though? I know for a fact there wouldn't be an issue in changing the thread title to be more inclusive.
Click to expand...

what the difference between being gay and queer?
 
H

HolyBaikal

Banned
If I'm not mistaken, queer is a really broad term that means a lot of non-heterosexual or non-cisgender sexualities and identities.

While gay is pretty specific.
 
M

Mumei

Member
Going back to the thread you guys were talking about earlier today for a moment:

The topic you guys are talking about is sort of par for the course for gaming side minority issues topics; it reads like an OT topic from at least five years ago.

I also don't agree that it's not worth talking about. Have you not seen polling on gay rights in recent years? People can and do change their minds about this issue, even on GAF - you'll notice it if you read older threads. I've occasionally been surprised when trying to find an old post, when I've stumbled across a disagreement I had with someone from years ago only to think, "Wait, that poster used to say dumb stuff like that?"

And I think it matters how you approach those topics - I think the belief that it's ultimately a fruitless endeavor is what leads people to approach those topics in a scorched earth manner, to respond to every mildly uninformed or offensive comment with some variant on the theme of, "Holy shit! I can't believe you said that!". You can have discussions with people who say stupid things where you get them to think about their positions and the assumptions they are making. It's not everyone, but it is worth trying - and the ones who aren't worth trying usually get themselves banned by tying themselves into rhetorical knots and slipping on their own shit. They don't usually get banned because someone was yelling at them a lot, or trying a collective dog-pile of outrage. And it's been my experience that when you respond to someone as if they are a reasonable person who is capable of thinking about their thinking and examining their own positions, they are more likely to actually do so. If you approach someone as if they are only good for tit-for-tat bickering, that's exactly the sort of conversation you'll end up having.

I'm not saying there's never a place for anger, or that nothing ever deserves mocking contempt; what I'm saying is that that doesn't need to be the default response and is ultimately self-defeating and exhausting. You can be challenging, you can be direct, you can "call people out" without immediately defaulting to the lazy incredulity that someone could be so dumb. I realize that not everyone can contribute in the same ways as everyone else - but that shouldn't be an excuse for laziness. You're all capable of better, even those of you who don't actually do it.

And I think it is important to remember that the person you are talking to is not the only person reading what you write. If someone on the sidelines is just wondering, "Why is this such a big deal?" out of a sense of inexperience or lack of perspective, you have every opportunity to address that person in the course of giving a substantive response to whoever is posting something ignorant.

Masquerader said:
Eh, there is a difference. I'm rather religious, and... Well, i'm here without any qualms in the slightest. But aye, good point. Religion is largely baseless, that much I am entirely aware of.
Click to expand...

Well, I meant that it doesn't matter why someone says, "I disagree with homosexuality and same-sex relationships"; it will always be a baseless canard. It doesn't matter if it's based on straightforward antipathy, religious beliefs, or farcical visions of societal collapse (and I think it's usually a mix of the three!); there's no basis for it.
 
K

Kangi

Member
Mumei said:
If someone on the sidelines is just wondering, "Why is this such a big deal?" out of a sense of inexperience or lack of perspective, you have every opportunity to address that person in the course of giving a substantive response to whoever is posting something ignorant.
Click to expand...

Or you just get a new poster who completely ignores all of the discussion up to that point, and then repeats the exact same argument, forcing you to go over the steps again. After which point, another person walks in with "Why is this such a big deal?"

Of course, those aren't the types of people that are the focus of such an approach; it's the people who don't post at all because they have things explained to them indirectly. It's just easy to understand why people can often get exhausted of the above endless cycle to the point that they lose their patience and revert to poo-slinging from atop an ivory tower - which is why I only throw my hat in the ring after I can recoup my patience. Haven't had the opportunity to do much of that with the sheer number of threads related to these popping up lately, which is why I'm just sitting here and rolling my eyes like some type of crotchety old man.
 
D

Dead Man

Member
Sai-kun said:
aggressive is the way to go

#downwithstraightpeople2014
Click to expand...

Feeling that way myself at the moment.

RatskyWatsky said:
LGBTQIAFSDMNOPXYZ

But seriously,

LGBThread |OT4| We're (still) Here! We're (still) Queer!
Click to expand...

I thought the Q was for Questioning? I have no idea though, although initialism soup can be hard to swallow.

Sai-kun said:
Queer (to me) is sort of an umbrella that can contain many identities, from sexuality to gender expression.
Click to expand...

That's how I see it, as a catch all term.
 
K

Kangi

Member
Dead Man said:
I thought the Q was for Questioning? I have no idea though, although initialism soup can be hard to swallow.
Click to expand...

Q can be either.

The typical full acronym is QUILTBAG - Queer/Questioning, Undecided, Intersex, Lesbian, Transgender, Bisexual, Asexual, Gay.
 
H

Hige

Member
Kangi said:
It's just easy to understand why people can often get exhausted of the above endless cycle to the point that they lose their patience and revert to poo-slinging from atop an ivory tower - which is why I only throw my hat in the ring after I can recoup my patience. Haven't had the opportunity to do much of that with the sheer number of threads related to these popping up lately, which is why I'm just sitting here and rolling my eyes like some type of crotchety old man.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I get the idea behind the peaceful/reasonable approach, but I exhausted my social justice outrage reading that topic and I have no patience for the idiocy on display there. Which is why I'm staying out of it.

Sai-kun said:
aggressive is the way to go

#downwithstraightpeople2014
Click to expand...
Does this mean you're starting one of those LGBT gangs? I hear they're all the rage these days.
 
Z

ZombiePlatypus

Member
Man, for the most part, I feel like I usually somehow manage to effortlessly avoid homophobic nonsense, but Nintendo's nicely worded apology to the Miiquality campaign has lured out a lot of batshit stupidity outta the woodwork.

I made the mistake of engaging one of them on twitter, and it's been like trying to reason with a couch. I can't believe so many people like this still exist, and it really makes me appreciate my social environment AFK, and forums/sites like GAF online.
 
D

Dead Man

Member
Kangi said:
Q can be either.

The typical full acronym is QUILTBAG - Queer/Questioning, Undecided, Intersex, Lesbian, Transgender, Bisexual, Asexual, Gay.
Click to expand...

Quiltbag? LOL :). I appreciate the comprehensiveness, but I don't think that is going to get taken seriously by large sections of the population.

Just going to use queer, it seems to include all of that.
 
M

Mumei

Member
Kangi said:
Or you just get a new poster who completely ignores all of the discussion up to that point, and then repeats the exact same argument, forcing you to go over the steps again. After which point, another person walks in with "Why is this such a big deal?"

Of course, those aren't the types of people that are the focus of such an approach; it's the people who don't post at all because they have things explained to them indirectly. It's just easy to understand why people can often get exhausted of the above endless cycle to the point that they lose their patience and revert to poo-slinging from atop an ivory tower - which is why I only throw my hat in the ring after I can recoup my patience. Haven't had the opportunity to do much of that with the sheer number of threads related to these popping up lately, which is why I'm just sitting here and rolling my eyes like some type of crotchety old man.
Click to expand...

Well, this isn't entirely true. Yes, you do get those people, and yes, they are annoying (especially in extremely fast-moving topics like, say, one of the Anita topics before we started cracking down on avenues of arguments that were verboten), but in general they are manageable.

You are certainly welcome to ignore them, or you can direct them to the post you made that addressed their misconceptions. If you've already done the work to respond to a new person, there's no need to do it again in the same topic, after all. And I've found that if you do a good enough job in the first place, you'll get people who say, "Didn't you read [X]'s post?" or "Read this post."

And yes, the focus of such an approach is on the people who aren't posting moreso than the people who are posting. I understand why people lose their patience; I just think that's a cue to take a break.
 
A

Aarglefarg

Member
Dead Man said:
Quiltbag? LOL :). I appreciate the comprehensiveness, but I don't think that is going to get taken seriously by large sections of the population.

Just going to use queer, it seems to include all of that.
Click to expand...
QUILTBAG is more of an in-community fun thing.
Also it leaves out pansexuals. :)
 
T

The One Who Knocks

Member
Mumei said:
The topic you guys are talking about is sort of par for the course for gaming side minority issues topics; it reads like an OT topic from at least five years ago.

I also don't agree that it's not worth talking about. Have you not seen polling on gay rights in recent years? People can and do change their minds about this issue, even on GAF - you'll notice it if you read older threads. I've occasionally been surprised when trying to find an old post, when I've stumbled across a disagreement I had with someone from years ago only to think, "Wait, that poster used to say dumb stuff like that?"

And I think it matters how you approach those topics - I think the belief that it's ultimately a fruitless endeavor is what leads people to approach those topics in a scorched earth manner, to respond to every mildly uninformed or offensive comment with some variant on the theme of, "Holy shit! I can't believe you said that!". You can have discussions with people who say stupid things where you get them to think about their positions and the assumptions they are making. It's not everyone, but it is worth trying - and the ones who aren't worth trying usually get themselves banned by tying themselves into rhetorical knots and slipping on their own shit. They don't usually get banned because someone was yelling at them a lot, or trying a collective dog-pile of outrage. And it's been my experience that when you respond to someone as if they are a reasonable person who is capable of thinking about their thinking and examining their own positions, they are more likely to actually do so. If you approach someone as if they are only good for tit-for-tat bickering, that's exactly the sort of conversation you'll end up having.
Click to expand...

Yes I must agree with this. One aspect that I think is important is that while these threads can sometimes reveal prejudices, generally, the individuals appear curious as to the issue, rather than simply dismissive, which is very important. While sometimes a defensive element can occur regarding alterations to the media that is consumed, most seem willing to examine the issue and remove unfavourable elemets where possible. In more political topics in the off-topic forum, people can sometimes be disuaded by the possibility of being ganged up upon and/or banned, yet in seemingly more 'relaxed'/'safer' topics such as in the gaming secction, where there is perhaps a greater number of people sharing such opinions, it's possible to create a dialogue and combat some misconceptions or prejudices. Rather than simply encouraging it to be hushed (and thereby causing it to gradually simmer under the surface), allowing the individual to explain their reasoning allows you to directly tackle/challenge the core of the issue and potentially alleviate it which is a far better solution, and most people are, as you say "capable of thinking about their thinking and examining their own positions".
 
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