Yea, people are frustrated and venting so it can get a bit hostile. It's happened twice in a row for some people so it's boiling over. Tough to deal with for everyone involved.
Honestly hoping Ys goes smoothly.
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Limited Run Games |OT2| Sweet XOXO for Digital to Physical Media
- Thread starter GodzillaDB
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Yea, people are frustrated and venting so it can get a bit hostile. It's happened twice in a row for some people so it's boiling over. Tough to deal with for everyone involved.
Honestly hoping Ys goes smoothly.
I feel the same. Reading the topic these days is cringeworthy. Some people should really take anger management classes. I know it's the internet but Jesus ! There are worst things in the world than scalpers, we are not "oppressed" by them as we can read, let's stay realistic.
As for Lili, I think I'll skip it, but no way I miss N++. I don't think it will be too hard to catch though. Probably depends on the run size ^^
It's quite possible being a Nintendo fan for years has made me numb to it all. I miss out on many of their limited items. Happy when it works out though, which is what keeps me going.
Some of this can be constructive, it's just that most of it isn't a new idea or suggestion. I'm glad that they're looking at limiting to 1 from the start for in demand items, that's hard to argue with. I also appreciate the steps they take to knock out the people who try to cheat the system. They deserve way more praise for the steps they take than for the missteps they make. They could ignore all of that and not care who or how they sell out to each week. The truth of the matter is that more people are able to get a copy because of what they're doing than otherwise would.
Anyone else play Ghost Blade HD yet? Got my Play-Asia copy and it's not too bad. I like it a lot more than their previous Dreamcast releases. Wonder when LRG is releasing and what will make theirs different.
I don't know anything about N++ so I wasn't thinking of getting anything next week. I should probably watch some videos and see if it's for me. Maybe tomorrow, it's getting a little late here
I played it quite a bit, I like it.
It's a simple, streamlined shooter with good bosses that seems designed for repeat plays -- there's basically no downtime.
I'm almost getting the platinum, will definitely buy a LRG limited edition if it comes.
Speaking of PA, I'm so disappointed with AereA. First, it was expensive. Second, the game broke the streak of consistent packaging they've had going. Third... It pretty much sucks. And I loved both Alchemic Jousts and Semispheres.
Signature Edition remains consistently great, though. I love their new Coins gimmick, Yonder is one of the best games of the year, and Unbox is also good fun.
I'm not the best at shooters, so I appreciate the easy mode. Makes it more fun if my kids want to play with me too. I like it when they can give us both a mode that anyone can beat and harder difficulties that provide the challenge more hard core players are looking for. Definitely recommend it for casual shooter fans.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pDMOlTMcTa8I don't know anything about N++ so I wasn't thinking of getting anything next week. I should probably watch some videos and see if it's for me. Maybe tomorrow, it's getting a little late here
BumblebeeCody
Member
I wanna make it clear that I'm not ranting or shitting on LRG. I highly appreciate LRG and what they do. I also don't have an issue with the games being limited. It makes sense they can only publish so much and meet an expected demand. As I said before, this whole thing is exciting and it seems LRG know how the keep the website running when this surge of traffic comes through. Plus, you can tell by the way they address us and the products available that they have passsion for this and care about what they offer. There I understand what I am in for come the time when a game becomes available. I was prepared entirely.
I just can't get over the fact that the purchase page I had been watching for nearly a week just suddenly changed the very instant the game became available. It's not outlined in the terms and conditions so for a newbie who hasn't been apart of the mad rush, this is just confusing, especially when it isn't even listed on the games page.
As I mentioned before in my previous example, if you were watching a product on Amazon to go on sale based on the timer displayed only to then refresh and find it doesn't exist anymore with no explanation, then I'm sure you would also be disappointed and Amazon would receive some serious complaints.
I'm not the only one who got messed around by this. I've counted around 10 people in this thread/on NeoGAF who didn't get a copy based on this sudden purchase page change, that's 10 less scalpels that could've bought it. I'm not angry or pissed, just severely disappointed by such a baffling change. It has benefitted scalpers more than anything.
The laughable part to me is the notion that everyone should cut them a break for months and years on end while they continue to make the same mistakes week after week. The primary correction they've made is to make the same mistakes faster.
The whole vote with your wallet thing is funny too. They can get away with the bumbling because the product is great and there is no alternative. They are probably servicing 1/2 to 1/4 of the target audience for many these games.
The problem is : stating they're not learning from their mistakes nor doing anything to tackle them, or volountarily letting money on the table, is implying they're just plain stupid.
They are hearing us, and maybe not acting as fast as you all want, but they'll come together eventually. In the meantime, let's stay respectful o/
They are hearing us, and maybe not acting as fast as you all want, but they'll come together eventually. In the meantime, let's stay respectful o/
Ludger Kresnik
Member
I'm only 24 but this still made me feel old.
blazeuk
Member
It was definitely poorly done and the 404 pages should have either linked back to the main page or had some text saying it was the correct page but won't be live until the switch is flipped. Those of us who have done it before know they did go through a phase of removing the page just before it went live because the basket used to hold items for 10 minutes and they'd all be gone instantly with people cheating the shopify system.
It's understandable why they had to do it when they knew as soon as it went live a decent amount of those copies would have been gone because they were already in baskets - they could have definitely done a better job conveying what was happening and the games listing page is a problem but it was obviously all very last minute with good intentions for giving everyone a fair chance (which clearly didn't work for everyone).
D
Deleted member 57681
Unconfirmed Member
So do you get like a confirmation mail from LRG if an order went through or something? I was charged for the Night Trap CE and it shows up on my account, but I got nothing from them so far.
Jesus Carbomb
From Water into Guinness
I usually get a confirmation email almost instantly after placing an order. It was no different with my Night Trap order this morning. Placed the order and received the email. Hope that helps.
Yes, you should have received a confirmation email.
D
Deleted member 57681
Unconfirmed Member
Nope, nothing. Checked spam as well. I opened a ticket.
cj_iwakura
Member
Night Trap.
KneehighPark
Member
So I have purchased some LRG releases in the past without issue. Wasn't able to get Night Trap on PS4 due to high demand, got a PC edition instead.
I have to ask; why is everyone so mad at the company. Are they mad at specific business practices?
I have to ask; why is everyone so mad at the company. Are they mad at specific business practices?
Without wanting to sound rude, have you read the last few pages of the thread? Your prior experiences and willingness to settle for the PC version are not universally shared.
Banjo-Kazooie
Member
Oh boo hoo. Guess it's better to stick your head in the sand instead of reading customers valid complaints and criticisms
Also, vote with your wallet? Really? Like LRG REALLLLLLLY needs my single purchase on a game since they have such a hard time selling out. That will show them!
BumblebeeCody
Member
Yeah definitely. Just literally saying where to now purchase the game would've helped. Put they aren't even covered in the terms and conditions for this kind of switch over. So incredibly let down by this.
Still bothering me
That was the point. They're a business, their business model is working, all the yelling and complaining kind of falls on deaf ears if you can't prove that they'd make more money otherwise and you can't. Which of their competitors is doing a better job?
Just because they're selling out every time doesn't mean they're foolproof. Just saying.
LQX
Member
Ugh, this is such terrible attitude to take as a consumer. You might as well just say don't ever complain as nothing will change so go fuck yourself. Just keep it moving. These guys are not your buddies, they are trying to sell you shit. The least we as consumers should be able to do is complain and without getting shit for it. And to me, that is what makes great a company, one that can seemingly take complaints and make changes without seemingly getting angry at consumers that might be dissatisfied. Moreover, you sound just as angry at those who you say are angry, only difference is you are angry on the behalf of LRG.
If you start a business saying you are fan and dev friendly sometimes you make decisions that aren't the best for your business model. However as you pointed out they are making money so maybe they care more about that now.
salaciousdrift
Member
There are other possible reasons for them not making the changes. They could not know how to implement the changes while still recognize they need to be made. They could lack the resources to make the changes. Namely capital but also employees with the skillsets they need. I think it is this one. Or they could simply not want to make the changes. My goal is not imply they lack the mental capacity for this business. I think they lack the capitalization to make meaningful change.
A cursory look at my post history would show I've been critical of LRG on more than one occasion. I've supported pre-orders and subscriptions, they've said it's not going to happen. I don't think you can say I'm angry, I don't understand the mentality that if you complain loudest and longest you'll get your way. These items are limited, that's the appeal. Some people aren't going to be able to get them, it's intentional. What's the point in rehashing it every week? Hoping to wear them down?
FinaruDensetsu
Member
As far as preorders that's definitely an intentional business decision. With preorders a lot of scalpers won't be interested as there simply won't be demand for the items if everyone in this already niche crowd can get them easily from the source. Secondly, a lot of regular buyers won't either because they won't have the impulse purchase mentality of something extremely limited. Even worse, you'll still get people who miss the preorder because they kept putting it off who will then complain instead of blame themselves.
All around it's a bad business decision. Sure, good for the people who just want the game to play or collect that miss out on whichever release, bad for keeping their business profitable.
People need to remember a scalper's dollar is worth every bit as much as their dollar.
LQX
Member
Absolutely. And if LRG wants to grow their business they absolutely should be taking notes of these complaints. If there are ten people in this thread alone being vocal about not being able to buy their product because there were not enough then there are probably a hundred more not saying anything. That is a hell of a lot of money for a small business to be leaving on the table.
FinaruDensetsu
Member
There's different ways to run a business. You have to weigh the possibility of growth with the possibility of loss.
Some people risk everything for growth and some are conservative and prefer modest profits that are as close to 100% safe as possible. It's no different than people who invest.
The way LRG does it sure they might be leaving money on the table with certain releases, but it ensures they never lose.
I kind of wish Play Asia would focus more on the US/UK/western market and start cultivating western exclusives. Their platform functions properly and they have the resources to be a true competitor. They already forced LRG to nix Ghost Blade when their version went up sooner. And their releases of Ys and Wonderboy had LRG acting defensive. Competition is clearly what is necessary in this space.
Marty Chinn
Member
You can do a compromise on both though. Keep the window limited for ordering like a normal release day but allow everyone in that window to get one. You'll still keep it limited and still have the impulse purchase but give a better chance of someone getting it. Scalpers can still buy because the window will be short and there will always be people who don't buy in the window.
FinaruDensetsu
Member
Yeah they could do that but again as there are no examples of people doing this and analytics on how that would affect sales it's again a risk. It's not my business and my money on the line so sure it would be easy for me to say "LRG you need to take that risk for your customers!"
If you keep the window open too long it's effectively a preorder with all the downsides. If you keep it too short you're back to where you are with people complaining, with the addition of developers being unhappy that you weren't able to flat out promise a certain number of copies for your order beforehand.
I think everyone knows the risks you can take for further growth here. I think it's telling that you have no competitors coming into this market willing to take those risks.
test_account
XP-39C²
AlexFlame116
Member
I just need to get Ys Origins CE PS4 version and then I can rest for a bit.
HamsterExAstris
Member
There's this new concept called a "pre-order". They can collect money from everybody who wants to buy it, and then only order exactly as many copies as people pre-ordered. No risk for LRG at all.
The circle never ends.
Marty Chinn
Member
They can start small and experiment. Take a tile, do a one hour window at 10am, and then a 1 hour window at 6pm and go from there. It'll be very close to a normal release, but expanding it a bit. Then compare the data against what they likely would have ordered normally and see how it goes. Do this for a couple titles, to get a better sample and see what happens. The negative impact on their business should be minimal in the worst case scenario, but the potential gain and information learned would be huge and worth whatever potential dip that could happen. I'd say it's no riskier than increasing the number of titles they're doing because when you open up to more titles, you risk some games not being as popular too. That's just one thing they can do in a relatively low risk manner.
Other things they can improve is purely their communication. They're so bad on it a lot of the time and it's been like that for awhile now. Their business is old enough now that this should be something that at the very least is getting better if not fixed by now. A lot of the frustration people have is partly due to their communication as well as the feeling that they've been doing this for awhile while still making similar mistakes.
Heck, maybe someone else here can elaborate why Shopify is better than all the other storefront alternatives too. There are plenty of options out there, so what does Shopify allow or do better that the competition doesn't. If nothing, why isn't LRG considering changing? It would be helpful to know why we're stuck with Shopify which is clearly causing problems. Better communication about this would at the very least help people understand why they're getting screwed rather than just hand waving it away as that's the way Shopify is.
There are so many things LRG can do to improve things. Some are way easier than others and while this was okay early on when they first started out, growing, and learning, it's starting to become tiresome that it feels like not a lot of progress has been made to improve these things now that we're what 75 releases in? When a game sells out in just a minute or two, and you continue to do that, you're doing something wrong by being way too conservative in your business. While it's understandable that some games might be harder to predict, they are also getting some bigger titles that should be far more easier to also predict. Night Trap, Wonder Boy and Ys are prime examples of these.
test_account
XP-39C²
I think they've explained this as well, why they dont go with pre-orders. I cant remember the exact explanation though.
Marty Chinn
Member
Some of their reasons for not taking preorders can be mitigated while other aspects they've already violated anyway. Then there are things they can do to make it a limited preorder as well. Doing preorders isn't a binary process of either you do it or you don't; there are a lot of different ways to handle it.
There are plenty of reasons besides stupid. They simply don't care because there is no problem if you boil it down to "did they sell?"
and "was there little to no risk?"
Banjo-Kazooie
Member
It's the same type of people who tell us they understand why Sony doesn't want to support BC, Cross-Play, etc. "it's not good business sense and look at all he money they are making anyways without it!" Erm ya, I don't need people to explain to me about the business aspects...I'm not dumb. As a consumer you should not get shamed for asking for improvements and things that benefit you instead of benefit a major company. And you would think al your fellow consumers would demand more too. It's really an odd sentiment to see on an enthusiast user forum
Marty Chinn
Member
Eh, I don't think it's quite the same. With cases like Sony and other big companies, often what people want is something that benefits them but doesn't benefit the company, or even comes at the expense of the company. So in situations like that, I'm understanding why Sony or any other company in a similar situation wouldn't want to do something despite the benefits for the consumer.
However, in this case, I feel that some of the things that LRG can do not only benefit the consumer, but also benefit them as well. I'm all for people suggesting how to improve things or complain about things not working if it comes out to benefit both parties. It's these situations where both parties win that things should be done. In the case of something like Night Trap selling out in 2 to 3 minutes, finding a way where there are more copies and it sells out in maybe 10 minutes instead means everyone benefits. More people are able to get it while LRG sells more copies and as a result makes more money. That's a win-win scenario and I think we should most definitely be advocating for such things. Other things like better communication and better planning also is a benefit to both parties involved.
So because of that, it's why I don't see both situations being the same.
zeopower6
Member
Well, I think the main reason they don't is because they tried it with Skullgirls and then it ended kinda horribly but it was all at the fault of Lab Zero but LRG took most if not all the blame.
Personally, I think they should give it another shot.
As it is now, I think things are going to be fine. With something like this in limited amounts for things that a LOT of people want, you are never going to be able to satisfy everyone. There are things here and there that they can improve on, but at the end of the day, because of the limited nature of their stocks, SOMEONE is going to miss out.
Limited Run Games is a side venture that I appreciate exists to allow us to get games in physical form and at the end of the day, I think they know what is best for their company and their goals. From the sounds of it, it seems like if even one or two games are overordered it could spell 'the end' of everything which isn't worth it to me.
FinaruDensetsu
Member
With the model you suggested what happens if the orders come in at say 3000 copies and the game's dev wanted a minimum order of 5000.
With the communication problem I think it's primarily an issue with lack of capital to hire the manpower to do that. I mean sure it'd be great if Doug and Josh could just work 20 hours a day 7 days a week but then they'd probably die of exhaustion.
zeopower6
Member
IIRC, aren't the print runs up to the devs? It's not like LRG decides that "okay this is going to get X amount of copies", it's a thing that the developers they talk to have most of the say in.
As it is now, even with 'less' popular titles, don't they always sell out eventually?
FinaruDensetsu
Member
Yeah they've said that it often is and LRG gives suggestions based on their reading of the popularity.
That's the main issue with preorders. Sure some devs might be fine with it but when we're dealing with copies that in the grand scheme of things sell extremely small amounts I can see why a dev would want a guarantee on a minimum amount of copies. A preorder by definition cannot guarantee that. LRG would end up footing that bill if preorders come in under the minimum. They wouldn't even be able to sell the copies that go over since people would probably complain that that's going over the number that were supposed to be sold.