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[Arkanius]

For a while gaming on PC has been simple. You got Windows, you installed your drivers for your hardware and that was it. More tinkering or less tinerking, it was a simple status quo we had. Steam was the de facto store, and everything seemed centralized.

I’ve used Linux in the past, everytime I did that move I said to myself “I’ll move from Windows, I prefer Linux and it suits my tastes better”. But there is always something prevents me to make that move, and that is Gaming. My favorite Hobby is just not right there yet. Developers love DirectX and it’s ease to develop for, and every major storefront is there apart from Steam and GoG.. Linux is just for those diehards that work with it daily and OpenSource evangelists.

Enter Microsoft and Windows 8 and their vision of a walled garden. Valve panicks, and rightly so, and decides to start the SteamOS movement to make an alternative for gaming. Now, SteamOS will be nothing more than an OS ready to install on Steam Machines but the interesting part of it is the making games being ported to Linux.

Now, despite having some very important ports lately, performance is not there. DirectX to OpenGL is an hard move for developers, and there is always a 10-15% hit in performance in comparison to Windows. Rarely do Linux games get performance parity with Windows. But I keep thinking to myself, will developers even care if there is no user base? Even Valve with Vive is not targeting Linux right way. Oculus will probably never do it despite their promises. It feels like a major part of the future gaming is just not in the radar for Linux.

I have been thinking of moving. For good.

I fear for my Gsync monitor, for my 980 Ti getting underused, for my soundcard not delivering positional sound, for my mouse not giving me all the configurations I’m used to, for all my Windows DX11 games that I won’t be able to play. But still, I might be part of a movement that needs to happen soon. The gaming community must move and we must stand behind Vulkan instead of DX12. Vulkan works literally everywhere (Android Included), and it’s a win win game for everyone except Microsoft and their Xbox One integrated with Windows vision.

If ,I and we, never move, we will never get more optimization in the current games to cater to us. We won’t get the new releases in parity with Windows. We will never get a focus or the attention. And we will still be at mercy from Microsoft and the decision and vision of a few instead of the collective interest of the community. If we keep waiting for someone to do go first and be the “settlers” of the gaming community in Linux, that move might never happen. We are all waiting for each other…

Who else has thought of moving and sacrificing the quality we currently have? What are your opinions regarding Linux and gaming and the future state of Windows (UWP and more walled gardens).

Discuss, sorry if I didn’t delve more in some topics, but I’m way to excited writing this

 

[diaspora]

That's a pretty good run down as to why it won't ever be the future of gaming.

 

[RealityCheque]

Right there with you OP.

Im still too reliant on Windows for gaming but don't want to see the MS/UWP approach succeed. But compatibility is the only thing stopping me from making the switch.

can I use my Xbone controller wireless adapter on Linux? Not yet. I need that.

But I do think Vulkan might be a game changing concept. It's portability could and should foster a lot of dev support. If Valve could really, truly throw their weight behind steamOS and help devs get as many ports onto Linux as possible then I'd be more than happy to make the switch. But I can't move whilst there's nothing but a half-built town to go to. Catch 22. So let's see what Vulkan does for us.

 

[Stevey]

It's never gonna happen.
Steam OS was it's only hope and that flopped.

 

[Mohasus]

It's never gonna happen.
Steam OS was it's only hope and that flopped.

SteamOS had as much chance as any other distro out there. 0%.

 

[ricki42]

I haven't used Windows (other than occasionally at work) in years.
But it doesn't have to be all or nothing. Just make sure you buy the games on Linux. And for those that have Linux support play them on Linux, at least at first to show the devs that there's interest and that people care about the Linux version.

 

[Nzyme32]

Quite frankly - you shouldn't need to do "anything to help". If Linux was in a state where you knew the important things worked well (namely hardware / performance / enough games / usability etc) for you, many folks would be comfortable with such a move. Right now is certainly not a time for that for the majority. Having said that, the movement of Linux is still going. Vulkan is something that in itself will need time to mature and possibly see adoption. If that can happen gradually over time, there is a chance Linux may start to see some improvements. I have no doubt that all that is still several years away though

It's never gonna happen.
Steam OS was it's only hope and that flopped.

SteamOS had as much chance as any other distro out there. 0%.

Second comment here is more accurate. No Linux distro, with Linux in its current state, has a chance of being "mainstream" or displacing Windows. However, the very gradual movement Valve has got involved with has set the ball in motion for slow progress, and it is pretty impressive that it is where it is now. Ultimately the situation is worse that the "Chicken and Egg" in that it not only involves making games get there, but also has a ton of work to get things in a state that is beneficial to users.

As things stand now, SteamOS is certainly not a "flop", considering Linux gaming is bigger than it has ever been (which is obviously no where near matching any other OS), now has Engine support from the major vendors and has the ball rolling with Vulkan to replace the aging cruft filled OGL, which Valve are helping drive in the gaming space. These are all baby steps in helping steer Linux to a place where it is a viable platform for more developers and users, rather than displacing Windows outright. The initiative of Linux and Steam is a long game without a doubt that will take many years, and while Windows is doing fine enough, there isn't a big need to be so pushy as to have some almight console-esque push

 

[Qassim]

The best chance Linux has got as an end user OS is through Android - it wouldn't be something that happened any time soon, but as devices converge, no matter how terrible and inconceivable that may seem to many of us at this point in time, it's a possibility.

Maybe Android will be powering our PCs in 10-15 years time and that's how Linux gets us

 

[Rembrandt]

Isn't Windows still the most used OS, so technically they're the many and you're the few.

also Linux is a pain and if you have to do all types of shit to help it become the future of gaming, then it's not meant to be.

 

[Sephiroth_VII]

I don't own a single PC which runs Windows(other than in virtualbox), and Linux+PS4 fulfills all of my gaming needs right now. I really do hope and believe that Linux' marketshare is only going to grow in the coming years, with Steam OS, Ubuntu and Android working in(something resembling) unison to bring industry support for getting the consumer-features like gaming up to par with Windows.

Even if this doesn't happen, things are still way better than they were just three years ago. The PC market moves slowly, but Apple has shown us that it can move. It's just about gathering industry support at this point, really.

Isn't Windows still the most used OS, so technically they're the many and you're the few.

also Linux is a pain and if you have to do all types of shit to help it become the future of gaming, then it's not meant to be.

Billions of Android owners seem perfectly fine using Linux.

Also, there was a point in time when windows was scuffed at as a gaming os. That changed.

 

[Laevateinn]

I've used Linux almost exclusively since I was 13. I don't know if that's guided my taste in gaming or if Linux worked since I'm not really interested in PC games.

Personally, most modern gaming doesn't interest me at all so as long as I get an occasional game here and there and my Sega consoles continue to work I'll be good forever. I don't really care if gaming on Linux takes off.

 

[Yuuichi]

The best chance Linux has got is through Android - it wouldn't be something that happened any time soon, but as devices converge, no matter how terrible and inconceivable that may seem to many of us at this point in time, it's a possibility.

Maybe Android will be powering our PCs in 10-15 years time and that's how Linux gets us

Java is hot garbage when it comes to ultra high performance tasks, maybe of android gets rebuilt from the ground up you have a case.

 

[Tenebrous]

That's a pretty good run down as to why it won't ever be the future of gaming.

This, sadly.

I WANT to move (to Debian), and I know I'm not helping anything by not moving over now, but until I can run Blizzard games (and Rocket League) without using WINE, there's absolutely no chance of me moving.

 

[Arkanius]

Java is hot garbage when it comes to ultra high performance tasks, maybe of android gets rebuilt from the ground up you have a case.

High performant games in Android use native C++ libraries

Also, take a look at this guys:

http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/0...wed-multitasking-but-its-disabled-by-default/

Android is finally going Windowed mode! It's finally reaching the Windows model of Windows 95. And that is Linux! It has the user base, it has the devices, it has everything.

Could the push to Linux come from mobile when it goes full circle?

 

[Sephiroth_VII]

This, sadly.

I WANT to move (to Debian), and I know I'm not helping anything by not moving over now, but until I can run Blizzard games (and Rocket League) without using WINE, there's absolutely no chance of me moving.

Why the caveat? Dual-boot, and run whatever you can't run natively in WINE. It usually works perfectly well, and for the stuff that doesn't, you still have Windows 😉

 

[Arulan]

It's never gonna happen.
Steam OS was it's only hope and that flopped.

When people make statements like these, or similarly that Steam Machines flopped, it makes me realize they've completely missed the point.

SteamOS isn't even designed as a desktop OS, and yet people project these goals that Valve never intended. No one was going to switch immediately to Linux because Valve made a Debian branch. The intention is to lay down the seeds for the future of the platform, because the day may come that Windows isn't an open-platform.

Similarly for Steam Machines, it wasn't intended as a console launch. There was hardly any marketing to speak of. It was about giving users another option, because not everyone plays at a desk. It may also be an attractive option for users who see PC (and building one) as intimidating.

But no, neither hit the mass market with millions of users and it's a flop.

 

[Arkanius]

Why the caveat? Dual-boot, and run whatever you can't run natively in WINE. It usually works perfectly well, and for the stuff that doesn't, you still have Windows 😉

It's a half measure. I've done it in the past, you will end up booting less and less in Linux and end up full time in Windows because, convenience.

At least with me.

Valve has done the right thing by porting all their juggernaut games to Linux. Blizzard needs to do the same. These two companies move multitudes.

Bethesda should god damn care as well. It's a travesty that Doom (the OpenGL flagship) is not even releasing Linux binaries this time around.

 

[Tenebrous]

Why the caveat? Dual-boot, and run whatever you can't run natively in WINE. It usually works perfectly well, and for the stuff that doesn't, you still have Windows 😉

Tried it - It's not for me. I'm almost always playing a game, and find myself dropping in & out of WoW every few hours. Having to reboot every time is a headache I can't deal with.

 

[Rembrandt]

Billions of Android owners seem perfectly fine using Linux.

Also, there was a point in time when windows was scuffed at as a gaming os. That changed.

You're right, that's the same thing as them using Linux or Ubuntu as their computer OS.

 

[Danny Dudekisser]

Yeah, OP, that sounds awful. I want nothing to do with that dark portent.

 

[Zepp Twofist]

I'll switch over when desktop Linux becomes good. And by that I do not mean functional, because it already is, but there are just too many inconveniences with running it as my daily OS at this point.

In general, I use Linux for every single piece of hardware I have that is not a desktop high performance PC, but for that use case the support just isn't there yet. I hope that it will be, but it's years down the line.

 

[Sephiroth_VII]

You're right, that's the same thing as them using Linux as their computer OS.

No, it is not. However, you did say that "Linux is a pain". Android is also Linux, and doesn't seem to be too much of a pain, considering that people like my mother can use it. It also runs on desktops.

 

[mothball]

lol here we go with the the "android is linux, android is fine therefore linux is fine"

 

[Rembrandt]

No, it is not. However, you did say that "Linux is a pain". Android is also Linux, and doesn't seem to be too much of a pain, considering that people like my mother can use it. It also runs on desktops.

are you talking bluestacks or as an actual desktop OS?

you knew what i was talking about and know they aren't the same, so i don't get the point of your post.

 

[DrNeroCF]

As a Mac user who has to boot into Windows to play PC games (and believe it or not, I have a good amount of them also available in OS X thanks to SteamPlay, performance and feature support is just garbage), but Linux? Haha, oh man.

 

[Sephiroth_VII]

lol here we go with the the "android is linux, android is fine therefore linux is fine"

Yes, actually. The linux-kernel is very good, especially compared to the horror which is the windows kernel. The problem is with some of the packages which run on top of Linux, mostly the drivers. Most of the other aspects, like package management and security are light years ahead of Windows, but bad drivers really mar the experience. There are also some UX problems, but these are, in my opinion, mostly eliminated in user friendly distros like Ubuntu. All it really needs right now application wise is a better "app store".

OSX runs on a way less supported kernel than the linux-kernel, but because Apple limits themselves to a very small number of hardware configurations, even more so than Android, this isn't a problem.

are you talking bluestacks or as an actual desktop OS?

I'm talking about running Android on an arm-device hooked up to a mouse, keyboard and monitor.

you knew what i was talking about and know they aren't the same, so i don't get the point of your post.

No, I didn't, and I don't.

I'm going to sleep now though, so I doubt I will be around in time to see your response before this thread is buried. If I am, I'll reply if you could explain it.

 

[Arkanius]

As a Mac user who has to boot into Windows to play PC games (and believe it or not, I have a good amount of them also available in OS X thanks to SteamPlay, performance and feature support is just garbage), but Linux? Haha, oh man.

It's in a better state compared to OSX to be honest. Despite the lower marketshare.

 

[Yuuichi]

High performant games in Android use native C++ libraries

Also, take a look at this guys:

http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/0...wed-multitasking-but-its-disabled-by-default/

Android is finally going Windowed mode! It's finally reaching the Windows model of Windows 95. And that is Linux! It has the user base, it has the devices, it has everything.

Could the push to Linux come from mobile when it goes full circle?

themoreyouknow.png

I could certainly see it working if google finally takes the reigns from manufactures then, I don't think devs are going to want to deal with so many different versions and hardware configs.

 

[m00h]

I have been using Linux for 15 years. Gaming and MS Office were the last two things preventing me from completely abandoning Windows. Since I own a 3DS I haven't used Windows for gaming not a single time. Love Linux, but don't really care about it's gaming future anymore.

 

[Kayant]

The best chance Linux has got as an end user OS is through Android - it wouldn't be something that happened any time soon, but as devices converge, no matter how terrible and inconceivable that may seem to many of us at this point in time, it's a possibility.

Maybe Android will be powering our PCs in 10-15 years time and that's how Linux gets us

Yh Also OP you shouldn't feel the need to "Do" anything.

Linux will probably never have a significant marketshare like Windows does but it will likely keep on getting more support and can become a good platform for gaming through Steam OS.

Any less MS drops some kind of gigantic bomb that makes it near impossible for them to recover from then Linux being the future is gaming has a very slim chance of happening but Linux seems to have a great future ahead for gaming thanks to things like Vulkan.

 

[Gemüsepizza]

I don't get this talk about Android. People are worried that Windows will become a walled garden (it won't), but they think Android would be a good idea? wat

There is a reason why Android is so popular. Because Google made sure that it isn't anything like Linux.

 

[FrozenCell]

you could say I was the target audence since I signed up to Steam the day Valve launched it on Linux

got hundreds of Linux games on account and hundres more on wishlist with Street Fighter V coming in Spring!

instead of derailing with Android talk, watch a relaxing Dave2D video to better understand what Valve is doing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eWGcKR3ho4

 

[Arkanius]

you could say I was the target audence since I signed up to Steam the day Valve launched it on Linux

got hundreds of Linux games on account and hundres more on wishlist with Street Fighter V coming in Spring!

instead of derailing with Android talk, watch a relaxing Dave2D video to better understand what Valve is doing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8eWGcKR3ho4

It's a slow burn and I agree with that
But I fear it might not get traction if people don't slowly move as well

 

[Palculator]

I've been using various Linux distributions as my main operation systems (currently rocking Gentoo + i3wm) for more than 12 years now and genuinely love it for most things. Gaming is not one of them. I like the idea, but the availability of games is too low, resource intensive games often feel worse than on Windows and the advanced things OP listed aren't even remotely supported.

So I'll continue dual booting for now.

 

[gamz]

I don't get this talk about Android. People are worried that Windows will become a walled garden (it won't), but they think Android would be a good idea? wat

There is a reason why Android is so popular. Because Google made sure that it isn't anything like Linux.

Yeah, this is really blowing my mind right now. If it's a choice between Android and Windows wouldn't you want the more open OS?

 

[mcrommert]

Lol....all this thread lol

If you want to make it happen change os's. Unfortunately he problem has never really been around users.

 

[Tenebrous]

Lol....all this thread lol

If you want to make it happen change os's. Unfortunately he problem has never really been around users.

It's never really been around developers either, to be fair. It's a classic catch-22 situation... Gamers will move when developers make more Linux games, and developers will make more Linux games when the gamers are there to justify it.

 

[DrNeroCF]

It's in a better state compared to OSX to be honest. Despite the lower marketshare.

I'm sure the drivers are better (don't think they could get any worse), but there's lots of Mac laptops out there, I don't think Linux is going to get any better support than OS X with less marketshare. OS X also has the branding to get non-gamers buying games (App Store), if they actually want in the walled garden, and familiarity with buying apps in iOS.

If devs can't make killer apps for OS X like they did in iOS, there's no way Linux is going to be a more significant gaming platform than OS X, much less Windows. SteamBox was by far and away the best shot at sidestepping the unfamiliarity with Linux issue, but the lack of standardization killed that one, IMHO.

 

[gamz]

It's never really been around developers either, to be fair. It's a classic catch-22 situation... Gamers will move when developers make more Linux games, and developers will make more Linux games when the gamers are there to justify it.

The problem I see is money quite frankly. There's a reason why the most popular OS's are made by three of the biggest tech companies out there. Without the billions of dollars it takes to create something of competition I don't see it happening. I mean, right?

 

[Figments]

The best chance Linux has got as an end user OS is through Android - it wouldn't be something that happened any time soon, but as devices converge, no matter how terrible and inconceivable that may seem to many of us at this point in time, it's a possibility.

Maybe Android will be powering our PCs in 10-15 years time and that's how Linux gets us

Except with Android, you still have the same problem you get with Microsoft--a single entity controlling an entire OS. The only way I can see Android taking off for the desktop is if someone made a really, really good fork of it.

And that someone better have wads and wads of cash to convince hardware companies like Nvidia, AMD, and Intel, and software companies like Adobe and Autodesk, that this Android fork is worth their time and money to support 100%.

 

[flaxknuckles]

I was gonna at least have Ubuntu dual booted and go into that OS everytime I bought and played games, but I just couldn't stomach getting less performance than I would in Windows on the same hardware. Right now I don't even have Linux installed and do not stress myself out hoping it will become big. I realize now there will always be way more games that are Windows-only and the only day that changes is if some big company other than Valve's lazy ass decides to push Linux.

Furthermore, I like Windows 10 more than any Linux distribution. There are too many features they don't have that Windows already gives me so I'll just let others fight the good fight. Hit me up when Ubuntu Unity 8 is out and gets at least 70% of new game releases.

 

[Nocturno999]

I can see more and more people moving to Linux in the future as windows becomes more malware-like and disrespectful to users choice and privacy.

I really want to move but like other people said, compatibility is the only issue.

 

[Unai]

I would have moved to linux years ago if gaming was in an acceptable state. I'm part of the problem, and unfortunately I'm continue to be as long as I get a better experience gaming on Windows.

 

[Yokai]

I can see more and more people moving to Linux in the future as windows becomes more malware-like and disrespectful to users choice and privacy.

I really want to move but like other people said, compatibility is the only issue.

I think the problem is that most windows users are suffering major Stockholm Syndrome. I think, even if every application was available on Debian linux, people would still refuse to switch because many people's "knowledge" of how a computer works is very windows centric.


It took me a long time to truly get how linux handles mounting drives and, despite the fact it's better, I think most people would give up because it just isn't a familiar paradigm.

Edit: I honestly think that gaming is no longer the issue for me, personally. My biggest barrier is the lack of ZBrush.

 

[Qassim]

Except with Android, you still have the same problem you get with Microsoft--a single entity controlling an entire OS. The only way I can see Android taking off for the desktop is if someone made a really, really good fork of it.

And that someone better have wads and wads of cash to convince hardware companies like Nvidia, AMD, and Intel, and software companies like Adobe and Autodesk, that this Android fork is worth their time and money to support 100%.

But it's not even close to the same control. The only control Google have is over their own proprietary apps and services. The point is Android is free and open source, it can be forked, it may be the case that the most popular flavour of Android isn't even maintained by Google in 10 years. I know people like to bang on that "Android isn't really open!" by pointing at the Google services on it, but, like, you can compile AOSP and run it without any Google stuff included.

Your last problem applies to *any* new operating system by a new or new to the field organisation.

 

[Crayon]

Don't be in denial about android's linux-ness. It's linux. Sorry but it's true. More importantly, it's not windows, which means to develop a game for android is to step out of the microsoft's web of tools that are exist to lock in developers and users.

Think about it this way; if android were to displace windows as the premier 386 operating system for gaming, and non-android desktop linux was still less than 1% of all users, would those linux users be better off or worse off?

They'd be WAY better off is the answer. Open standards like sdl would be way more used and supported and cross platform software could be as easy as it should be to support.

High performant games in Android use native C++ libraries

Also, take a look at this guys:

http://www.androidpolice.com/2016/0...wed-multitasking-but-its-disabled-by-default/

Android is finally going Windowed mode! It's finally reaching the Windows model of Windows 95. And that is Linux! It has the user base, it has the devices, it has everything.

Could the push to Linux come from mobile when it goes full circle?

Yes the convergence clusterfuck is going to be important and it's coming very soon.

 

[TheAdmiester]

I dunno if it's dickish to say, but I don't want to support anything until it CAN do what I want. Ditching Windows for it just because it has potential would be too much hassle.

 

[Theanine3D]

I don't get why people are saying SteamOS "flopped." The OS is still around and being developed. It's a free OS, too, so it's not like Valve lost money from a lack of OS sales. And the OS is only going to continue gaining in relevance over time, even if it's just a slow, gradual climb. MS is making sure of that with their recent moves.

I believe strongly in having a "free" OS alternative to Windows. So I've pledged to release all of my games on Linux simultaneously alongside other platforms. I encourage other developers do the same. Bringing more games and content to Linux is what will ultimately convince more people to make the switch. If the games are there, people will come.

 

[Crayon]

I don't get why people are saying SteamOS "flopped." The OS is still around and being developed. It's a free OS, too, so it's not like Valve lost money from a lack of OS sales. And the OS is only going to continue gaining in relevance over time, even if it's just a slow, gradual climb. MS is making sure of that with their recent moves.

I believe strongly in having a "free" OS alternative to Windows. So I've pledged to release all of my games on Linux simultaneously alongside other platforms. I encourage other developers do the same. Bringing more games and content to Linux is what will ultimately convince more people to make the switch. If the games are there, people will come.

PM me! Tell me what game is yours and where to get!

Related to the chicken-egg problem; I sometimes think that we could make as much headway convincing linux users to buy some games as we could convincing gamers to install linux.

 

[Mobius and pet octopus]

What benefits, if any, does linux offer for gaming directly?