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[SmokyDave]

Stratford, London? It's a shithole.

Of course, I was thinking of Stratford-Upon-Avon!

 

[Dirtyshubb]

Thank you for posting this.

I think I've spent a good few minutes trying to type up a meaningful, not TLDR reply to what you have written - and deleted it all out a few times..

But I think the core issue at hand is there's no sense of fear-of-failure out there in our society, no motivator to do what you have done - to want to achieve in life.

That is definitely part of it; it’s also no fear in general.

I am only 26 yet I always remember when you saw someone giving the police shit on TV my dad would say something like “I bet the police gave them a good kicking out back for that”, of course these days you know that they cant do anything so why should you fear them? You know that the prisons are full so the likelihood is that even if you do get caught for something you will only get a slap on the wrist so why worry about breaking the law?

Now im not saying that we need to implement Judge Dredd style police (would be nice though) but we need the petty scum of the streets to actually fear something other than maybe a rival gang, they need to know that you do this sort of shit its gonna come back to get you later on which most don’t feel like right now.

I feel that to prevent the country from getting worse we need to:

1) Sort out the benefits system; try to stop the sense of entitlement at the source.
2) Try and prevent the amount of child abuse that goes on in low income houses, its far more wide spread than gets reported.
3) Help parents become better parents, teach them what their actions will do to their children down the line and help them learn to take consequences into consideration rather than do what makes life easier right now.
4) Crack down on violent crime. All muggings, beatings, verbal abuse to strangers ect should be treated as some of the worst crimes possible, rather than whitewashing it as petty crime when it’s those crimes and criminals that have the biggest effect on a society.

Of course the situation is a lot more complex than this and my suggestions are going to be hard to get working but I truly feel that if we as a society managed to get these 4 suggestions implemented in some meaningful way we might start to see a turnaround to the troubling trend of youngsters being lost to society because of a bad upbringing.

 

[Jezbollah]

(reply - regarding Stratford being a shit-hole..)

It's a strange mish-mash of new apartment blocks and 60s brick/concrete relics outside of the Olympic Village

The new Westfield shopping centre would be a big time lure for looters - if it was open (not aware that it is..)


EDIT - in response to Dirtyshubb - totally agree - thanks again.

 

[dreamcastmaster]

And the even sicker thing is a lot of those same people will be against "dirty immigrants" coming into the UK who actually have a strong work ethic and want to better themselves.

True, I'm too good to do those jobs but at the same time complaining that immigrants are taking "our jobs" SMH

 

[J Tourettes]

(reply - regarding Stratford being a shit-hole..)

It's a strange mish-mash of new apartment blocks and 60s brick/concrete relics outside of the Olympic Village

The new Westfield shopping centre would be a big time lure for looters - if it was open (not aware that it is..)

Not until September. Would they have started stocking non perishables in the shops yet?

 

[aronnov reborn]

Twitter updates.

Breaking News
North London riot update: Reports of homes under attack; TV news crews pulled after masked mobs attack

Photo: Supermarket on fire from the inside, north London riot - via @rickin_majithia of BBC http://bit.ly/qc5nV6

This is why we have guns in America.... what are the police going to do to protect you in a riot like this? Please come into my house rioters.. please.

 

[AlimNassor]

I wont disagree with that. I know I cant expect everyone to follow a good example and take chances for the better for everyone. It is good that we can discuss in a polite manner here. Just hoping that people will waken up more and demand these things as consumers are important.

i don't honestly care. All i care about is getting food on the table and paying my bills. I really am not in the position to to be arguing with my store manager.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

(reply - regarding Stratford being a shit-hole..)

It's a strange mish-mash of new apartment blocks and 60s brick/concrete relics outside of the Olympic Village

The new Westfield shopping centre would be a big time lure for looters - if it was open (not aware that it is..)


EDIT - in response to Dirtyshubb - totally agree - thanks again.

It's not open yet, but I think it will be a big target for arson.

 

[Meus Renaissance]

Rumour is that Clapham Junction will be targeted tonight

 

[iapetus]

This is why we have guns in America.... what are the police going to do to protect you in a riot like this? Please come into my house rioters.. please.

Yeah, would be so much better if the rioters had guns too.

 

[aronnov reborn]

Yeah, would be so much better if the rioters had guns too.

Amazing how that hasn't been an overwhelming problem here....

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Amazing how that hasn't been an overwhelming problem here....

Where do you mean by here?

If it's the US, then I'm pretty certain there is a problem with gun violence.

If you mean the UK, then it's not amazing, guns aren't easy to get hold of and there are very strict laws. Just being in possession of a handgun carries an automatic 10 year prison sentence.

 

[Pendulum]

Rumour is that Clapham Junction will be targeted tonight

The Australians getting in on the act now too, eh?

 

[marrec]

Yeah, would be so much better if the rioters had guns too.

Even though I don't agree that Guns would solve a homeowners problem with rioters. I have to point out that even in America guns are expensive and hard to get a hold of. It may be easy compared to London, but most Rioters don't have access to guns and if they do, don't want to be running around shooting random people.

Now the Gangs are different, but they shoot random people everyday so the difference is marginal.

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

That is definitely part of it; it’s also no fear in general.

I am only 26 yet I always remember when you saw someone giving the police shit on TV my dad would say something like “I bet the police gave them a good kicking out back for that”, of course these days you know that they cant do anything so why should you fear them? You know that the prisons are full so the likelihood is that even if you do get caught for something you will only get a slap on the wrist so why worry about breaking the law?

Now im not saying that we need to implement Judge Dredd style police (would be nice though) but we need the petty scum of the streets to actually fear something other than maybe a rival gang, they need to know that you do this sort of shit its gonna come back to get you later on which most don’t feel like right now.

I feel that to prevent the country from getting worse we need to:

1) Sort out the benefits system; try to stop the sense of entitlement at the source.
2) Try and prevent the amount of child abuse that goes on in low income houses, its far more wide spread than gets reported.
3) Help parents become better parents, teach them what their actions will do to their children down the line and help them learn to take consequences into consideration rather than do what makes life easier right now.
4) Crack down on violent crime. All muggings, beatings, verbal abuse to strangers ect should be treated as some of the worst crimes possible, rather than whitewashing it as petty crime when it’s those crimes and criminals that have the biggest effect on a society.

Of course the situation is a lot more complex than this and my suggestions are going to be hard to get working but I truly feel that if we as a society managed to get these 4 suggestions implemented in some meaningful way we might start to see a turnaround to the troubling trend of youngsters being lost to society because of a bad upbringing.

This was all I could think of while reading your post:

 

[Zenith]

Amazing how that hasn't been an overwhelming problem here....

gun control works.

 

[Meus Renaissance]

Talk of Birmingham now

 

[params7]

Even though I don't agree that Guns would solve a homeowners problem with rioters. I have to point out that even in America guns are expensive and hard to get a hold of. It may be easy compared to London, but most Rioters don't have access to guns and if they do, don't want to be running around shooting random people.

Now the Gangs are different, but they shoot random people everyday so the difference is marginal.

You're saying only civilized home owners can buy guns in the USA? Teens can't get hold of them if they know their parents keep one? The chances of you running into raiders with guns in a similar riot-type scenario are higher in the US.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

"Wanted: nuff n----- and bitches. Tonite nw london gets hit. Starting with staples corner (currys etc) den brent cross(head for da jewels). Y not take this opportunity to EAT. Riot starts at 10. F--- it, da rest of london is eating now its our turn. Let's go out and eat BIG. C u 2nite B-)"

From a BBM according to the Telegraph.

Wankers.

 

[ChiTownBuffalo]

You're saying only civilized home owners can buy guns in the USA? Teens can't get hold of them if they know their parents keep one? The chances of you running into raiders with guns in a similar riot-type scenario are higher in the US.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

Agree with almost all of this. Kudos to you for breaking out of your family's bad cycle.

The only thing I'd contend with is the idea of a parenting course. I'm more in favour of increased spending on community centres and their ilk, which can give local youngsters something to do, engaging with the community and encouraging them to be active. It can also be an avenue for alleviating gang crime, in a roundabout way. Personally, I don't think the parents are the people to be targeting, adults tend to be beyond help if they've been living off handouts for their whole lives. With younger people, you can show them the satisfaction that comes with achieving things and being part of something bigger than themselves.

But as I said, fantastic post.

Thanks, it’s probably the thing im most proud of in my life, well after marrying my wife that is.

I do actually agree with you that in majority of cases adults are too far gone to be able to do anything about their behaviour ect. Now it sounds harsh but I think that for these people we need to give them these courses, try to help them and if there still isn’t a change then take those kids straight away from them and prohibit them from having more. This is a very serious idea I understand but for these people if they are such bad parents then why let them keep their children or even worse have more?

Like I said in my previous post, bad parenting is far more widespread than the media shows. I wish that they would give child abuse (not just sexual) the same amount of coverage as they do sex offenders/paedophiles as it has just the same negative impact on someone’s life as that subject does.
Just walking around in Croydon (the shit hole this place is) you will see pretty much every day a mother dragging their kids around like rag dolls, swearing at them, letting them wander off alone and countless other examples of terrible parenting that it will make you sick and yet its overlooked by most people as the norm.

Also another example of bad parenting I think is when, especially in single parent families you have the mother have one of the older children (from around 8 year sold) help with bringing up the other kids/doing the housework ect. They treat them like partners/slaves and yet expect them to grow up as normal children even though they have been used and abused their entire memorable life.

All of this rambling is to just get my reasoning for stricter parenting rules across, I have seen the effect bad parenting does to children first hand (family/friends) and it’s terrible and the worst part is that this terrible parenting is often excused by most or even ignored. We need to tackle the parents who turn these kids into people who don’t care for others, who don’t ever want to try hard in life or wanna take the easy road. Only then will we start to see future generations change into something we can all be proud of rather than ashamed which is what I bet all UK gafers in this thread feel like seeing the shit that has gone down the last few days.

*EDIT

This was all I could think of while reading your post:
http://historicromance.files.wordpress.com/2010/12/gene.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]
LOL i actually do love Life on Mars/Ashes to Ashes, all hail Gene Hunt :)

 

[Arsenal2022]

"Wanted: nuff n----- and bitches. Tonite nw london gets hit. Starting with staples corner (currys etc) den brent cross(head for da jewels). Y not take this opportunity to EAT. Riot starts at 10. F--- it, da rest of london is eating now its our turn. Let's go out and eat BIG. C u 2nite B-)"

From a BBM according to the Telegraph.

Wankers.

Fucking hell thats round the corner from me.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Talk of Birmingham now

I'd be surprised if it doesn't spread to be honest.

While trying to not be too alarmist, there is quite a volatile cocktail that's been sat there for a while. The shooting sparked it in Tottenham, leading to last night's copycat looting, and probably the same tonight. When people are shown just walking out of stores with whatever they want, places like Wood Green left unpoliced for 2 hours while people did what they want, that gives people ideas.

There's no trust left in politicians, bankers, the police (mainly the Met), and the 24/7 news cycle of doom and gloom about the economy and jobs. Throw into that mix a section of society used to living off handouts, and they will take an opportunity like this to not only take what they can get but also lash out at anyone and everyone. Respect for all forms of authority has gone. And this has also shown how through social networking and organising lots of people in lots of places at once, they can stay one step ahead of the police and stretch their resources.

It's not only our economy that's finely balanced, this needs to be stamped out quick but depending on how they do that it could inflame things more.

Not looking forward to what may happen tonight at all :/

 

[marrec]

You're saying only civilized home owners can buy guns in the USA? Teens can't get hold of them if they know their parents keep one? The chances of you running into raiders with guns in a similar riot-type scenario are higher in the US.

No where did I say that, only said that it's not like Guns rain from the sky in the US. It isn't a simple matter to nab one from your parents before putting on your scarf and hitting the streets for some looting. Riots happen quite a bit here in the US and the last thing you hear about is some teen punk who tipped over a police car and shot 3 people dead.

Mostly its because of Gun control and education. You get 5 and 6 year olds who have shitty parents that leave their guns lying about and loaded for them to take to school and accidently shoot little Susie and that's terrible. But it's not like these over-priviledged gangster wanna be white teens that participate in most Riots here in the US are just dying to get ahold of Daddy's .45.

The people who do have access to guns and the willingness to shoot someone down with one usually weed themselves out of society before being able to participate in good old fashioned mayhem.

Er... I guess my point is that since we have a culture that is used to having more access to guns, then they are also used to having a bit of self control when it comes to using them. I guess.

 

[J Tourettes]

"Wanted: nuff n----- and bitches. Tonite nw london gets hit. Starting with staples corner (currys etc) den brent cross(head for da jewels). Y not take this opportunity to EAT. Riot starts at 10. F--- it, da rest of london is eating now its our turn. Let's go out and eat BIG. C u 2nite B-)"

From a BBM according to the Telegraph.

Wankers.

As long as they don't venture as far as Camden/Chalk Farm. I do have a handy spare scaffold pole from building a squat cage this weekend which could come in handy should it kick off here.

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

No where did I say that, only said that it's not like Guns rain from the sky in the US. It isn't a simple matter to nab one from your parents before putting on your scarf and hitting the streets for some looting. Riots happen quite a bit here in the US and the last thing you hear about is some teen punk who tipped over a police car and shot 3 people dead.

Mostly its because of Gun control and education. You get 5 and 6 year olds who have shitty parents that leave their guns lying about and loaded for them to take to school and accidently shoot little Susie and that's terrible. But it's not like these over-priviledged gangster wanna be white teens that participate in most Riots here in the US are just dying to get ahold of Daddy's .45.

The people who do have access to guns and the willingness to shoot someone down with one usually weed themselves out of society before being able to participate in good old fashioned mayhem.

Er... I guess my point is that since we have a culture that is used to having more access to guns, then they are also used to having a bit of self control when it comes to using them. I guess.

Where are all these riots that I'm missing? Also other countries don't have our problems with random ass shootings in places like schools, markets, and workplaces. But yeah. Americans totally have self control when it comes to guns.....

 

[marrec]

Where are all these riots that I'm missing? Also other countries don't have our problems with random ass shootings in places like schools, markets, and workplaces. But yeah. Americans totally have self control when it comes to guns.....

I'm not talking about the merits of American gun control vs. UK gun control. Just saying that when people decide they want to smash some stores up and loot they generally don't bring guns.

I don't even know why I'm arguing this point, it's insignificant and irrelavant.

Also, maybe Pittsburgh is prone to protests that turn violent, but it seems like every year here in Pitt there is some group of 100-200 kids from Oakland who decide to protest something and by 9 PM are smashing things up and looting. It usually gets broken up quite fast by the local police though.

 

[Visualante]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc6_ov6GK68

kind of beautiful with the music.

 

[Raydeen]

eBay?

I'm trying to take a glimmer of optimism!

 

[storafötter]

Where are all these riots that I'm missing? Also other countries don't have our problems with random ass shootings in places like schools, markets, and workplaces. But yeah. Americans totally have self control when it comes to guns.....

I think Canada would be a better example in terms of gun control. In Norway people have possession of guns much due to collecting and hunting. Personally id rather less people have guns due to the risk it gives, however it is true that some in places where weapons are available (with or without restriction) people dont go shooting everyone.

 

[aronnov reborn]

Where do you mean by here?

If it's the US, then I'm pretty certain there is a problem with gun violence.

If you mean the UK, then it's not amazing, guns aren't easy to get hold of and there are very strict laws. Just being in possession of a handgun carries an automatic 10 year prison sentence.

There is a problem with gun violence but not when it comes to rioting. the type of people that riot aren't the ones that would carry guns.. if they did you'd not have only the police using deadly force but a large number of Americans defending themselves with that same force...

 

[MarkMclovin]

Has this been posted?

As the fires raged in Brixton last night so did the idiocy. This Twitter picture allegedly shows a looter posing with his swag. Among his haul of X-box games and DVDs appears to be a muscle-building protein supplement, vital for keeping fit after a heavy night's lifting.

and more from here

 

[Osietra]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pc6_ov6GK68

kind of beautiful with the music.

Wow, did anyone else notice that UFO? Pretty amazing stuff.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Wow, this is quite unusual:

@UK_BlackBerry
BlackBerry UK
We feel for those impacted by the riots in London. We have engaged with the authorities to assist in any way we can.

Guess there is some substance to events tonight being coordinated by BBM.

 

[Napoleonthechimp]

Normally I am not one for certain extreme police measures but I hope the knuckle-dragging apes responsible for the rioting get smashed under the foot of the police.

 

[Raydeen]

Has this been posted?

and more from here

Looks like Noel Clarke. That's how he funds the Adulthood movies! *

I jest, Noel Clarke is actually a great role model for what a young black guy can achieve in a 99.9% white industry.

 

[.la1n]

Why doesn't America ever get riots

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

Why doesn't America ever get riots

Guns apparently. *eyeroll*

 

[The Incarnation]

"Wanted: nuff n----- and bitches. Tonite nw london gets hit. Starting with staples corner (currys etc) den brent cross(head for da jewels). Y not take this opportunity to EAT. Riot starts at 10. F--- it, da rest of london is eating now its our turn. Let's go out and eat BIG. C u 2nite B-)"

From a BBM according to the Telegraph.

Wankers.

So some people have hijacked the whole meaningless riot thing and turned it into a sharing of the wealth thing. They want to come to the buffet as well now. Things could get much worse.

A society that is greedy will have thieves for children.

 

[PJV3]

I don't like the welfare state being blamed for this sort of stuff, London is a paradise compared to how it was in the 19th century.

 

[marrec]

Why doesn't America ever get riots

Move to Pittsburgh, people are always smashing shit up here. But only in Oakland, everywhere else is nice and tranquil. (Well, McKeesport is a nightly riot, but it's more organized Anarchy and less spontaneous destruction.)

 

[Arsenal2022]

I don't like the welfare state being blamed for this sort of stuff, London is a paradise compared to how it was in the 19th century.

Exactly, without the welfare state these riots would have happened earlier and would have been ten times worse.

 

[J Tourettes]

Have just been sent home from work on police advice. Stratford.

 

[Meus Renaissance]

Wow, this is quite unusual:



Guess there is some substance to events tonight being coordinated by BBM.

So they're going through peoples messages to find those planning? How? By looking for keywords that will be in peoples messages?

 

[Pendulum]

If only the News of the World was allowed to hack phones...

 

[SmokyDave]

Exactly, without the welfare state these riots would have happened earlier and would have been ten times worse.

With a better managed and administrated welfare state these riots wouldn't have happened.

Speculation is fun.

 

[Zenith]

I'd be surprised if it doesn't spread to be honest.

While trying to not be too alarmist, there is quite a volatile cocktail that's been sat there for a while. The shooting sparked it in Tottenham, leading to last night's copycat looting, and probably the same tonight. When people are shown just walking out of stores with whatever they want, places like Wood Green left unpoliced for 2 hours while people did what they want, that gives people ideas.

There's no trust left in politicians, bankers, the police (mainly the Met), and the 24/7 news cycle of doom and gloom about the economy and jobs. Throw into that mix a section of society used to living off handouts, and they will take an opportunity like this to not only take what they can get but also lash out at anyone and everyone. Respect for all forms of authority has gone. And this has also shown how through social networking and organising lots of people in lots of places at once, they can stay one step ahead of the police and stretch their resources.

It's not only our economy that's finely balanced, this needs to be stamped out quick but depending on how they do that it could inflame things more.

Not looking forward to what may happen tonight at all :/

I don't think it's any of that, I think it's as simple as chavs suddenly realising that if there are enough of them together the police won't touch them when they go looting. It's like mass burglary.

 

[brucewaynegretzky]

So they're going through peoples messages to find those planning? How? By looking for keywords that will be in peoples messages?

This is gonna be a lawsuit... or at least it would be in America....

 

[SmokyDave]

Have just been sent home from work on police advice. Stratford.

The police are making this worse. Don't clear a fucking area for them! It's an open invitation.

I don't think it's any of that, I think it's as simple as chavs suddenly realising that if there are enough of them together the police won't touch them when they go looting. It's like mass burglary.

I'm going to mark today in the calendar as 'Agreed With Zenith Day'. I'm going to celebrate it annually as a sign that sometimes, cats & dogs both hate pigs.

 

[Arsenal2022]

With a better managed and administrated welfare state these riots wouldn't have happened.

Speculation is fun.

I wasn't saying that the welfare state doesn't need reform, but a lot of posts above gave the impression that the welfare state should be reformed to an extent that the "safety net" should be removed for a lot of those who were rioting. I don't believe that this approach is the right idea as it would remove any reason for those youths to even moderately comply with society as they would feel that they were shunned and would become even more disenfranchised than they are now.

But as you said speculation is fun, and with stuff like the welfare state, what you plan for is never what you get.