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[marrec]

Ironically these brands stand for a lot of abuse and misery in the countries they make these products. I dont really care for their damages, they can handle it as they have actual blood on their hands. On the other hand civilians getting hurt is disgusting.

The shop owners don't have any blood on their hands.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

but it could be the muslims coordinating it to get back at the jews... oh my god.

No, it's a joint Jewish/Muslim plot, come on dude, weren't you listening to Nick Griffin yesterday...

 

[PJV3]

Make sure you post a celebratory photo of you with your looted selection of cheeses.

Look out for me on Sky news, i shall stare into the camera holding my stolen goods like a dopey fucker.

 

[Salazar]

Look out for me on Sky news, i shall stare into the camera holding my stolen goods like a dopey fucker.

The smell on your hands would be a dead giveaway for months afterward.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Meanwhile, in Tuscany ...

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Meanwhile, in Tuscany ...

http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/54481000/jpg/_54481322_012572645-1.jpg[/ img][/QUOTE]

Dave doesn't need to come back. This isn't a national crisis, London has its own leader and defacto commissioner of the Met, Boris.

 

[Dabanton]

In fact Callmedave is probably smiling all this shit looks very bad for Boris who has had designs on Daves job for years.

These riots especially if they continue will nip that idea in the bud.

 

[Kentpaul]

This cider debate is making me wonder about the taste of the mytical nectar known as Buckfast. I have yet to try it, maybe Kentpaul could hook me up.

Go try and find a bottle, if its not chilled put it in the freezer for about an hour, or just put it in the fridge for a few hours, it really is party juice, you have a bottle of that and you will be calling around trying to arrange a trip to the pub with a few good friends.

a nice 15% wine , tastes like blackcurrant boiled sweeties and pure joy.

i have a bottle or a week, every sip of it brings me back to the good times I've had on it, its packed with caffeine so you will be going all night.

make sure to drink a few stella's after it to become a walking party.

its easy to get online, if you cant find shops with it.

 

[PJV3]

Dave doesn't need to come back. This isn't a national crisis, London has its own leader and defacto commissioner of the Met, Boris.

I dont want him to come back either, He's not very inspiring or a great tactician. I suppose he could talk nicely to the peasants about Carlton Television programmes.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

As someone who lived next in Streatham Hill for the first 19 years of my life I know the sort of people who would go along with the looting ect and to be honest, 99% of them are probably beyond saving. These people have no motivation to better themselves and as such will never get out of the rut that their lives are.

I grew up in a council flat, Mum on benefits, both sisters on benefits, between them having 9 kids (with various fathers) and now 5 grandchildren so I know what its like in these upbringings. Unless either you or a parent gives you the motivation to strive for better you will have no chance, you see that everything you need to live (house, food, water ect) is given to you so there isn’t a sense of urgency that someone else might have in getting a job to provide for themselves.

I couldn’t stand the idea of growing up to become another giro collecting nothing that expects everything but gives nothing back. I am now married, live in my own home, work for the government and couldn’t be happier. The problem is my story is one of the minorities with people who grew up in my situation and at the moment that doesn’t seem to be changing.

The thing that I honestly would attribute this attitude with most cases is the parents attitude and this isn’t going to change unless something drastic is done, in fact its going to get worse. Majority of parents in council places for the most part don’t care about their kids, in fact they probably didn’t want them and often let them know this. They shout, scream, swear, hit them at the drop of a hat, especially in public, and the worst part is that they don’t see their actions are just going to cause their kids to become the very thing they are trying to prevent, and that’s them!

I seriously think there needs to be some sort of parenting course or something when it comes to kids, especially if you are on benefits “You want us to look after you and your oncoming children? Well prove to us you are capable and we will talk”. It might seem harsh but if you have seen how rampant bad parenting is, and I don’t mean making a few bad choices but things that are basically child abuse, then you might understand where im coming from.

All of the looters I would bet are from upbringings like this and when I heard about all this I wasn’t surprised at all, all it takes is for a few people to think they can get away with something and they will do it, their friends will join in and before you know it buses are being set on fire and shops robbed.

We have a nation that for the last 20 or so years have been taught you can get what ever you want and these people now have kids of their own, imagine what its going to be like in 10/15 years when their kids are teenagers, its not going to be pretty.

 

[storafötter]

The shop owners don't have any blood on their hands.

Thats not entirely true, sure they are mainly a salesman and dont deserve their shops to be burned or dangered. However if you buy and sell these brands you arent innocent by creating the appeal and market for these type of things. Same with jewelery owners buying from conflict areas well knowing of this or the environmental damages. These apparels would not be anywhere without the salesman or shops. You always have a responsibility, especially when you buy the goods.
Truth is these rioters dont give a shit either.

 

[Salazar]

Blood diamonds = Nikes ?

 

[storafötter]

Blood diamonds = Nikes ?

http://www1.american.edu/ted/nike.htm

You can find a lot of documentaries about Nikes business practices in Asia, it is not a very friendly one. The same goes for most multi-billionaire companies. I wont derail this thread any further.

These rioters arent excused in their behaviour, I was just saying that I dont pity these apparels and unethical industries being economically damaged in this situation.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Blood diamonds = Nikes ?

Dats why I get dem Adidas bruv. Fuck dem Nike shoes yeah, dey abuse der workers in dem poor countries nahmeen...

 

[SmokyDave]

http://www1.american.edu/ted/nike.htm

You can find a lot of documentaries about Nikes business practices in Asia, it is not a very friendly one. The same goes for most multi-billionaire companies. I wont derail this thread any further.

These rioters arent excused in their behaviour, I was just saying that I dont pity these apparels and unethical industries being economically damaged in this situation.

Well you should, because it ain't Nike and Adidas picking up the bill. It's you & me, through our taxes and our insurance premiums.

 

[dreamcastmaster]

Meanwhile, in Tuscany ...

smug cunt.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

smug cunt.

If your wife was that hot at like 45 you would be too...

 

[marrec]

Thats not entirely true, sure they are mainly a salesman and dont deserve their shops to be burned or dangered. However if you buy and sell these brands you arent innocent by creating the appeal and market for these type of things. Same with jewelery owners buying from conflict areas well knowing of this or the environmental damages. These apparels would not be anywhere without the salesman or shops.
Truth is these rioters dont give a shit either.

It's not as if the rioters are targeting Nikes because they personally feel angry about injustices done in Asia. They want new shoes, and they want to steal things. The Shopowners and Salespeople in these stores are just trying to make a living like anyone else and cannot in any way be held responsible for the actions of a company whom provides them with product to sell.

Regardless of any of that, any normal person would empathize with the people who have had their property destroyed and inventory taken, not the rioters. Although, if someone were selling Baby-Seal Skin boots, my empathy would probably be tempered.

 

[Salazar]

If your wife was that hot at like 45 you would be too...

Considering what past PMs have gone home to, she is smoking hot.

Even Major's mistress was foul.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

"14.03 We're seeing murmurings on Twitter of a plan for disorder in Stratford at 7pm. Must stress these are only rumours and unconfirmed but they seem fairly widespread. Apparently instructions are being spread by BlackBerry Messenger."

From the Telegraph live blog

 

[Furret]

"14.03 We're seeing murmurings on Twitter of a plan for disorder in Stratford at 7pm. Must stress these are only rumours and unconfirmed but they seem fairly widespread. Apparently instructions are being spread by BlackBerry Messenger."

From the Telegraph live blog

Why are they reporting this? Surely they know the only thing it's going to do is make it more likely.

 

[Dabanton]

Considering what past PMs have gone home to, she is smoking hot.

Even Major's mistress was foul.

Norma Major was pretty hot in a gilfy sort of way.

Edwina Currie looks absolutely filthy i can imagine she showed Major things he never gotten at home from the wife

 

[SmokyDave]

"14.03 We're seeing murmurings on Twitter of a plan for disorder in Stratford at 7pm. Must stress these are only rumours and unconfirmed but they seem fairly widespread. Apparently instructions are being spread by BlackBerry Messenger."

From the Telegraph live blog

Yeah, it's supposed to be happening in Notts too, again over Blackberry and Facebook.

Bring it. Let's split this society wide open and see who wants it most. England will prevail, or SmokyDave becomes TabagieDavid.

Edwina Currie looks absolutely filthy i can imagine she showed Major things he never gotten at home from the wife

Oh god, I think I'm gonna puke.

....

Yup. Just a little bit, in my mouth.

 

[Salazar]

Why are they reporting this? Surely they know the only thing it's going to do is make it more likely.

People can stay (further) away.

Dabanton, I agree that Edwina probably offered filth unmatched by the fleshpots of Persia, but she wasn't mistress standard.

I read one of her books, once. The sex scenes were pretty conventional.

 

[storafötter]

It's not as if the rioters are targeting Nikes because they personally feel angry about injustices done in Asia. They want new shoes, and they want to steal things. The Shopowners and Salespeople in these stores are just trying to make a living like anyone else and cannot in any way be held responsible for the actions of a company whom provides them with product to sell.

Regardless of any of that, any normal person would empathize with the people who have had their property destroyed and inventory taken, not the rioters. Although, if someone were selling Baby-Seal Skin boots, my empathy would probably be tempered.

Yeah I am aware of that. They rioters dont give a shit.
I suppose I was unfair to salesmen, but I still cant sympathize with shop owners who support these practices. It is a way of living for them yes, but the shop owners still have a responsibility in my opinion.
By boycotting the worst apparels they would of course lose customers and popular products.
However I still know of people who have small independent shops that avoid these type of products and try to support ethical practices. It is not like these shop owners are getting rich or very wealthy by such. You can also earn a living on that, but also very risky opposed to nikeys shops. Just have to disagree.

 

[marrec]

"14.03 We're seeing murmurings on Twitter of a plan for disorder in Stratford at 7pm. Must stress these are only rumours and unconfirmed but they seem fairly widespread. Apparently instructions are being spread by Telegraph live blog and Blackberry Messenger."

From the Telegraph live blog

I mean, it's good to know the news, but they shouldn't be TRYING to help the rioters right?

 

[J Tourettes]

"14.03 We're seeing murmurings on Twitter of a plan for disorder in Stratford at 7pm. Must stress these are only rumours and unconfirmed but they seem fairly widespread. Apparently instructions are being spread by BlackBerry Messenger."

From the Telegraph live blog

I've got a hangover from hell so I was planning on knocking of early anyway.

The window of JD Sports in the mall has been smashed but not sure if it's anything to do with looting/rioting.

 

[Jezbollah]

As someone who lived next in Streatham Hill for the first 19 years of my life I know the sort of people who would go along with the looting ect and to be honest, 99% of them are probably beyond saving. These people have no motivation to better themselves and as such will never get out of the rut that their lives are.

I grew up in a council flat, Mum on benefits, both sisters on benefits, between them having 9 kids (with various fathers) and now 5 grandchildren so I know what its like in these upbringings. Unless either you or a parent gives you the motivation to strive for better you will have no chance, you see that everything you need to live (house, food, water ect) is given to you so there isn’t a sense of urgency that someone else might have in getting a job to provide for themselves.

I couldn’t stand the idea of growing up to become another giro collecting nothing that expects everything but gives nothing back. I am now married, live in my own home, work for the government and couldn’t be happier. The problem is my story is one of the minorities with people who grew up in my situation and at the moment that doesn’t seem to be changing.

The thing that I honestly would attribute this attitude with most cases is the parents attitude and this isn’t going to change unless something drastic is done, in fact its going to get worse. Majority of parents in council places for the most part don’t care about their kids, in fact they probably didn’t want them and often let them know this. They shout, scream, swear, hit them at the drop of a hat, especially in public, and the worst part is that they don’t see their actions are just going to cause their kids to become the very thing they are trying to prevent, and that’s them!

I seriously think there needs to be some sort of parenting course or something when it comes to kids, especially if you are on benefits “You want us to look after you and your oncoming children? Well prove to us you are capable and we will talk”. It might seem harsh but if you have seen how rampant bad parenting is, and I don’t mean making a few bad choices but things that are basically child abuse, then you might understand where im coming from.

All of the looters I would bet are from upbringings like this and when I heard about all this I wasn’t surprised at all, all it takes is for a few people to think they can get away with something and they will do it, their friends will join in and before you know it buses are being set on fire and shops robbed.

We have a nation that for the last 20 or so years have been taught you can get what ever you want and these people now have kids of their own, imagine what its going to be like in 10/15 years when their kids are teenagers, its not going to be pretty.

Thank you for posting this.

I think I've spent a good few minutes trying to type up a meaningful, not TLDR reply to what you have written - and deleted it all out a few times..

But I think the core issue at hand is there's no sense of fear-of-failure out there in our society, no motivator to do what you have done - to want to achieve in life.

 

[Dabanton]

Why are they reporting this? Surely they know the only thing it's going to do is make it more likely.

The problem is no matter what they report it will happen, these kids are using BBM to spread the word making the police reaction two steps back.

The guardian had an interesting bit about it earlier.

12.47pm: Theme of the day is the use of BlackBerry Messenger — rather than Facebook and Twitter — to co-ordinate the unrest. Here's what my colleague Josh Halliday makes of it all:

If there was any sign that a peaceful protest would escalate, it wasn't to be found on Facebook. Twitter was slightly more indicative: tweets about an attempt to target Sunday's Hackney Carnival were spotted by police and the event was abruptly cancelled.

"However, the most powerful and up-to-the-minute rallying appears to have taken place on a more covert social network: BlackBerry Messenger (BBM).

"Using BlackBerry handsets – the smartphone of choice for the majority (37%) of British teens, according to last week's Ofcom study – BBM allows users to send one-to-many messages to their network of contacts, who are connected by "BBM PINs".

"And unlike Twitter or Facebook, many BBM messages are untraceable by the authorities (which is why, in large part, BBM is so favoured by Emirati teens to spread illicit gossip about officialdom).

 

[Pendulum]

Apparently tonight's Evening Standard is going to put some of the blame for the riots on the Grand Theft Auto series.

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/gta-inspired-london-riots/082762

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Thank you for posting this.

I think I've spent a good few minutes trying to type up a meaningful, not TLDR reply to what you have written - and deleted it all out a few times..

But I think the core issue at hand is there's no sense of fear-of-failure out there in our society, no motivator to do what you have done - to want to achieve in life.

It all stems from benefit dependency. If a person is given money and a flat while sitting on their arse doing nothing, they grow a massive sense of entitlement. It kills all motivation to better oneself.

 

[Murkas]

Hearing it may pick up in Birmingham and Wolverhampton aswell. Sounds bullshit, just word of mouth so far.

Then again it is the Midlands...

 

[marrec]

Yeah I am aware of that. They rioters dont give a shit.
However I still cant sympathize with shop owners who support these practices. It is a way of living for them yes, but the shop owners still have a responsibility in my opinion. By boycotting the worst apparels they would of course lose customers and popular products.
However I still know of people who have small independent shops that avoid these type of products and try to support ethical practices. It is not like these shop owners are getting rich or very wealthy by such. You can also earn a living on that, but also very risky opposed to nikeys shops.

Hey, difference of opinion and all that. Shops that are 'cruelty free' are very niche and if there is no market for it in your area it would be a very bad business decision to boycott certain inventory items.

Take, for example, Boulder CO over here in the US. You could have a 'cruelty free' apparel shop on every street corner and still not satiate the need for those dirty hippies to have their hemp hoodies handmade by old grandma's in New Mexico... but that's Boulder.

(Yes, I took this opportunity to make fun of The Peoples Republic of Boulder... sue me.)

 

[Dabanton]

Apparently tonight's Evening Standard is going to put some of the blame for the riots on the Grand Theft Auto series.

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/gta-inspired-london-riots/082762

Absolutely pathetic but not surprising

Two people – one a police officer in Tottenham and the other an Enfield resident – told reporters that they believed the popular game series was the catalyst behind the breakdown of law and order.

A member of the Evening Standard news team confirmed that at the time of speaking, the GTA quotes were to be included in the article. However, the source would not rule out the possibility of alternations being made before the paper hits presses.

 

[Foliorum Viridum]

Apparently tonight's Evening Standard is going to put some of the blame for the riots on the Grand Theft Auto series.

http://www.mcvuk.com/news/read/gta-inspired-london-riots/082762

State of Emergency, surely?

 

[-viper-]

but it could be the muslims coordinating it to get back at the jews... oh my god.

well it doesn't matter who is co-ordinating the attacks; scum is scum.

they're all parasites that need to be purged.

 

[storafötter]

As someone who lived next in Streatham Hill for the first 19 years of my life I know the sort of people who would go along with the looting ect and to be honest, 99% of them are probably beyond saving. These people have no motivation to better themselves and as such will never get out of the rut that their lives are.

I grew up in a council flat, Mum on benefits, both sisters on benefits, between them having 9 kids (with various fathers) and now 5 grandchildren so I know what its like in these upbringings. Unless either you or a parent gives you the motivation to strive for better you will have no chance, you see that everything you need to live (house, food, water ect) is given to you so there isn’t a sense of urgency that someone else might have in getting a job to provide for themselves.

I couldn’t stand the idea of growing up to become another giro collecting nothing that expects everything but gives nothing back. I am now married, live in my own home, work for the government and couldn’t be happier. The problem is my story is one of the minorities with people who grew up in my situation and at the moment that doesn’t seem to be changing.

The thing that I honestly would attribute this attitude with most cases is the parents attitude and this isn’t going to change unless something drastic is done, in fact its going to get worse. Majority of parents in council places for the most part don’t care about their kids, in fact they probably didn’t want them and often let them know this. They shout, scream, swear, hit them at the drop of a hat, especially in public, and the worst part is that they don’t see their actions are just going to cause their kids to become the very thing they are trying to prevent, and that’s them!

I seriously think there needs to be some sort of parenting course or something when it comes to kids, especially if you are on benefits “You want us to look after you and your oncoming children? Well prove to us you are capable and we will talk”. It might seem harsh but if you have seen how rampant bad parenting is, and I don’t mean making a few bad choices but things that are basically child abuse, then you might understand where im coming from.

All of the looters I would bet are from upbringings like this and when I heard about all this I wasn’t surprised at all, all it takes is for a few people to think they can get away with something and they will do it, their friends will join in and before you know it buses are being set on fire and shops robbed.

We have a nation that for the last 20 or so years have been taught you can get what ever you want and these people now have kids of their own, imagine what its going to be like in 10/15 years when their kids are teenagers, its not going to be pretty.

That was a very interesting and insightful read. Thanks for sharing such. You point out many important problems we are facing not only there but elsewhere too. It is good to hear from someone with experience.

 

[Jezbollah]

It all stems from benefit dependency. If a person is given money and a flat while sitting on their arse doing nothing, they grow a massive sense of entitlement. It kills all motivation to better oneself.

Totally agree. Most of my attempted replies involved the atmosphere of complete self-entitlement that seems to be prevalent today.

Take away the safety net of benefits (and being faced with the reality of being out on the streets), and you'll either have a surprisingly large amount of able workers, or a large amount of people throwing human rights act around..

 

[storafötter]

Hey, difference of opinion and all that. Shops that are 'cruelty free' are very niche and if there is no market for it in your area it would be a very bad business decision to boycott certain inventory items.

Take, for example, Boulder CO over here in the US. You could have a 'cruelty free' apparel shop on every street corner and still not satiate the need for those dirty hippies to have their hemp hoodies handmade by old grandma's in New Mexico... but that's Boulder.

(Yes, I took this opportunity to make fun of The Peoples Republic of Boulder... sue me.)

I wont disagree with that. I know I cant expect everyone to follow a good example and take chances for the better for everyone. It is good that we can discuss in a polite manner here. Just hoping that people will waken up more and demand these things as consumers are important.

 

[SmokyDave]

There are so many gorgeous buildings in Stratford that I'm having a pre-emptive aneurysm.

 

[Dabanton]

Totally agree. Most of my attempted replies involved the atmosphere of complete self-entitlement that seems to be prevalent today.

Take away the safety net of benefits (and being faced with the reality of being out on the streets), and you'll either have a surprisingly large amount of able workers, or a large amount of people throwing human rights act around..

And the even sicker thing is a lot of those same people will be against "dirty immigrants" coming into the UK who actually have a strong work ethic and want to better themselves.

 

[xandaca]

As someone who lived next in Streatham Hill for the first 19 years of my life I know the sort of people who would go along with the looting ect and to be honest, 99% of them are probably beyond saving. These people have no motivation to better themselves and as such will never get out of the rut that their lives are.

I grew up in a council flat, Mum on benefits, both sisters on benefits, between them having 9 kids (with various fathers) and now 5 grandchildren so I know what its like in these upbringings. Unless either you or a parent gives you the motivation to strive for better you will have no chance, you see that everything you need to live (house, food, water ect) is given to you so there isn’t a sense of urgency that someone else might have in getting a job to provide for themselves.

I couldn’t stand the idea of growing up to become another giro collecting nothing that expects everything but gives nothing back. I am now married, live in my own home, work for the government and couldn’t be happier. The problem is my story is one of the minorities with people who grew up in my situation and at the moment that doesn’t seem to be changing.

The thing that I honestly would attribute this attitude with most cases is the parents attitude and this isn’t going to change unless something drastic is done, in fact its going to get worse. Majority of parents in council places for the most part don’t care about their kids, in fact they probably didn’t want them and often let them know this. They shout, scream, swear, hit them at the drop of a hat, especially in public, and the worst part is that they don’t see their actions are just going to cause their kids to become the very thing they are trying to prevent, and that’s them!

I seriously think there needs to be some sort of parenting course or something when it comes to kids, especially if you are on benefits “You want us to look after you and your oncoming children? Well prove to us you are capable and we will talk”. It might seem harsh but if you have seen how rampant bad parenting is, and I don’t mean making a few bad choices but things that are basically child abuse, then you might understand where im coming from.

All of the looters I would bet are from upbringings like this and when I heard about all this I wasn’t surprised at all, all it takes is for a few people to think they can get away with something and they will do it, their friends will join in and before you know it buses are being set on fire and shops robbed.

We have a nation that for the last 20 or so years have been taught you can get what ever you want and these people now have kids of their own, imagine what its going to be like in 10/15 years when their kids are teenagers, its not going to be pretty.

Agree with almost all of this. Kudos to you for breaking out of your family's bad cycle.

The only thing I'd contend with is the idea of a parenting course. I'm more in favour of increased spending on community centres and their ilk, which can give local youngsters something to do, engaging with the community and encouraging them to be active. It can also be an avenue for alleviating gang crime, in a roundabout way. Personally, I don't think the parents are the people to be targeting, adults tend to be beyond help if they've been living off handouts for their whole lives. With younger people, you can show them the satisfaction that comes with achieving things and being part of something bigger than themselves.

But as I said, fantastic post.

 

[blazinglord]

In fact Callmedave is probably smiling all this shit looks very bad for Boris who has had designs on Daves job for years.

These riots especially if they continue will nip that idea in the bud.

Hardly, the blame lies solely with Labour's decade of creating an underclass with a misguided sense of entitlement that comes with never knowing a honest day's work and getting state handouts.

By refusing to cut his holiday short, Boris is showing these scum the contempt they deserve. I am not one who believes in the infallibility of the police and I acknowledge the serious issues of unaccountability the met has, but the opportunistic mob prowling around London is truly repugnant.

 

[J Tourettes]

There are so many gorgeous buildings in Stratford that I'm having a pre-emptive aneurysm.

Stratford, London? It's a shithole.

 

[Jezbollah]

A mob of 200 could easily demolish the Olympic Stadium - it's such a tinny shack of a structure....

 

[J Tourettes]

A mob of 200 could easily demolish the Olympic Stadium - it's such a tinny shack of a structure....

Nothing worth looting on the olympic site though. Plus you have work going on 24/7.

 

[slider]

Stratford, London? It's a shithole.

Believe it or not... it's getting better! The Olympics aren't the only reason. There'd been a bit of money pumped in independently of that.

 

[iapetus]

Nothing worth looting on the olympic site though. Plus you have work going on 24/7.

Yup. And I'm willing to bet that work acts like kryptonite on the majority of the looters.

 

[zomgbbqftw]

Hardly, the blame lies solely with Labour's decade of creating an underclass with a misguided sense of entitlement that comes with never knowing a honest day's work and getting state handouts.

In London, I agree it is all down to Labour creating an underclass who live their lives out on benefits, never doing an honest day's work in their life. Outside of London the blame can be spread quite equally between the previous Labour government and the Conservative government before it. Both destroyed manufacturing and traditional working class employment but had nothing waiting for them but life in a council estate on incapacity benefits.

 

[J Tourettes]

Believe it or not... it's getting better! The Olympics aren't the only reason. There'd been a bit of money pumped in independently of that.

I've been working here for 7 years and my Nan and Grandad used to live in Forest Gate, so know the area pretty well and it's still a shithole IMO.