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[Random_Hajile]

If old sorry, but this is a good read:

----------------------

Yet another delay leads to rumours that Rare's next title has hopped platform to Xenon

British developer Rare has announced a further delay to its Xbox-exclusive title Kameo: Elements of Power, with the Microsoft-owned studio pushing back the title to an unspecified date, raising speculation that the game may be Xbox 2 bound.

A statement on the developer's website informs readers that "after a lot of thought and discussion, Rare and Microsoft Game Studios have decided to push back the launch of Kameo: Elements of Power in order to incorporate several changes and new features (some minor, some not so minor)."

Kameo was originally destined for the GameCube before Microsoft's purchase of Rare, and has already been delayed several times - and has reportedly been significantly redesigned on at least one occasion since it was shown in playable form at E3 2003.

This fresh delay will undoubtedly push Kameo back into mid to late 2005 - and has caused some to speculate that Microsoft may have decided to re-target the title on its next-generation Xbox 2 platform, which is expected to launch in late 2005.

Last month, Lionhead Studios cancelled development on Intrepid's Xbox title B.C. despite the fact that the game was nearing completion, with insiders at the company informing gi.biz that the decision was at least partially motivated by Microsoft, which, it's claimed, isn't interested in publishing original Xbox titles beyond early 2005.

If true, this would certainly suggest that the company could have retargetted Kameo onto Xbox 2, where the quirky game - which places the player in the role of a fairy with the power to possess or morph into a range of other creatures - is arguably likely to perform better as a near-launch title than it would on the well established Xbox.

However, the delay will be embarrassing for Microsoft nonetheless, and doubly so if Kameo has really been moved to the Xbox 2 platform. After spending an unprecedented $375 million on Rare in September 2002, the publisher has only coaxed one Xbox title out of the studio to date - the commercially unsucessful Grabbed By The Ghoulies last Christmas.

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=5323

I remember RARE once said they would ship at least 3 games per year on Xbox... what happened?

 

[GDGF]

I remember RARE once said they would ship at least 3 games per year on Xbox... what happened?

Weed, i'd imagine.

 

[worldrunover]

yeah this is waaay old.

ibl

 

[Gek54]

What did MS pay for Bungie and DICE? and are there any stats that show how much revenue each developer's game has generated?

 

[SyNapSe]

What did MS pay for Bungie and DICE? and are there any stats that show how much revenue each developer's game has generated?

MS owns DICE!?

 

[Gchaime]

Hoorah! My first IBL!

Eventhough i'm a bitter, old nintendork, that wishes nothing but DOOM for nintendo's competitors, i feel for Rare. They shouldn't have bombed this hard.

 

[Renegade]

EA owns DICE, and IIRC they payed 32 million.

 

[Deg]

Welcome to...

 

[bitwise]

old.

 

[Random_Hajile]

Microsoft buys Bungie in home gaming bid

June 22, 2000
Web posted at: 10:38 a.m. EDT (1438 GMT)

by Sam Costello

(IDG) -- In a move designed to ensure that a foundation of quality game titles will be available for the release of its forthcoming Xbox gaming system, Microsoft this week purchased independent action game developer Bungie Software Products.

Bungie, maker of such popular games as Myth and the forthcoming Oni, will become a part of Microsoft's Games Division. Bungie will be set up as an independent games studio within the larger company, which, according to a FAQ posted on the Bungie Web site (see link below), will allow Bungie to retain its corporate culture and essentially determine its own direction.

However, Bungie co-founder Alex Seropian said the company will not be developing future games for consoles other than the Xbox. Seropian said Bungie will release the action title Oni for the PlayStation 2 as planned, but will not develop other games for the platform, citing the difficulty in writing PlayStation games.

Microsoft's Xbox was announced at the Electronic Entertainment Exposition (E3) in May. It is designed to compete with Sony's PlayStation 2, Sega's Dreamcast and Nintendo of America's N64, and is slated for release in the first half of 2001.

The console will be Microsoft's first entry into the high-stakes home gaming market and is arrayed with a range of PC-like features, including a 733MHz processor, 64M bytes of RAM, a 8G-byte hard drive, a 4x DVD-ROM Drive and broadband Internet capabilities.

In a related announcement, Take Two Interactive Software acquired full rights to two Bungie properties, the highly successful Myth franchise and the unreleased action title, Oni, in return for selling its 19.9 percent stake in Bungie to Microsoft. While it is not clear what Myth's future is, Oni will be released for the PC and Mac, as well as PlayStation 2 platforms.

This acquisition is especially important to Microsoft, as well as gaming fans, due to Bungie's still-in-development title, Halo. The highly anticipated game, which has garnered rave reviews and even won the Best Action Game Award (as well as three other awards) at the E3, despite its incomplete status, is seen by many as a sure blockbuster. Peter Tamte, Bungie's executive vice president of publishing, reached by e-mail, called Halo "a key factor in the purchase."

Seropian said that development on Halo would be set back "a couple of weeks" due to the move of Bungie's Chicago-based operations to Redmond, Washington, the home of Microsoft.

News of the acquisition was greeted with skepticism and anger by many Macintosh fans on the Internet. When asked about these reactions, Seropian said he was "flattered" by the strong feelings and urged fans not to worry, noting that the same people working on Bungie's games the day before the acquisition are still working on them today.

When asked whether Bungie would develop future games for the MacOS, Ed Fries, Microsoft Vice President of Games Publishing said, "If the business case makes sense, we'll support it in the future."

However, when asked if Halo, which has been promised for the MacOS, will still be released there, Seropian stated that Bungie would "not [be] answering MacOS questions" at this point, but noted that the company "hasn't stopped doing anything [they were] doing" prior to the acquisition.

----------------

Buying Bungie... Win Win Good move... hmmm HALO and HALO 2

Rare... ummm what was the point?

http://archives.cnn.com/2000/TECH/computing/06/22/ms.bungie.idg/

 

[Renegade]

I'm willing to bet that RARE can pull off developing games that net 15 million total sales in the next 5 years.

 

[Mason]

If Microsoft were smart, they wouldn't bother putting out Kameo on Xbox and move it to Xbox 2. Of course, if Microsoft were smart, they wouldn't have purchased Rare in the first place, so who knows.

 

[Xellos]

I think you've got to give Rare some time with Xenon before they can be called a bust. They haven't done well on Xbox, that's for sure, but I'm thinking they'll have a couple of games ready for Xenon's first year. Probably Perfect Dark Zero, a reworked Kameo, and maybe a Banjo game.

Also, Conker is going to rock.

 

[Random_Hajile]

Is this that old too

Or could this be an interesting thread to discuss... I mean WTF happened to RARE. When MSFT bought them I thought it was a huge buy for Xbox and we would see all kinds of great RARE games! But no.

 

[SyNapSe]

It still is a huge buy. They just haven't released much for the consoles this gen. They've always been a slow developer and switching consoles couldn't have helped.

The question will be can they carry the kind of popularity they used to. It's clear some of the types of games they have done don't get the sales anymore. Adventure/Collect-A-Thon types don't make crazy sales.

If what people believe is true (and PD0 is a Xenon launch title) then that should/will be the first title we will have the chance to assess their market appeal. At least assuming Xenon = basically the same crowd as Xbox.

 

[Renegade]

I'm thinking that RARE has a launch lineup ready to go on Xbox 2 launch. Kameo, Perfect Dark 0, Sabrewulf, and possibly a new Killer Instinct and Banjo should be expected near Xbox successor launch window. If some of the more major games hit the launch date, that's at least 6-10 million right there. That's about 100 million dollars from license and publishing, right? That's excluding handheld as well?

And you're talking about Microsoft. For them it's shape up or Ship out.

 

[FitzOfRage]

What did MS pay for Bungie and DICE? and are there any stats that show how much revenue each developer's game has generated?

http://pc.ign.com/articles/081/081079p1.html

The Wall Street Journal reports today that some analysts estimate Microsoft paid between $20 million and $40 million for Bungie in total.

As far as the revenue generated by Halo, I don't think you could even quantify it, because it really goes well beyond just what the game itself has sold. It is the reason a lot of people bought an Xbox, so pretty much every game and accessory puchased after that point has been consequential to picking up Halo.

I'm thinking that RARE has a launch lineup ready to go on Xbox 2 launch. Kameo, Perfect Dark 0, Sabrewulf, and possibly a new Killer Instinct and Banjo should be expected near Xbox successor launch window. If some of the more major games hit the launch date, that's at least 6-10 million right there. That's about 100 million dollars from license and publishing, right? That's excluding handheld as well?

And you're talking about Microsoft. For them it's shape up or Ship out.

Yeah, I think the launch window is do or die for them. If they blow that like they did the GC launch (remember they went through this once already when they started dropping N64 support , supposedly getting ready to go all out for the GC), I expect MS to pull the plug and just take whatever they can get for them.

 

[Gek54]

Does anyone remember perfect dark anymore? I think HALO pretty much stole most of all the console FPS fame away...and didnt most of the GE/PD team leave to make the TimeSplitter's series? Speaking of which where is TS3???

 

[john tv]

Rare is ass. If MS had any brains they'd shut them down altogether. What a waste of money.

 

[Chony]

Perfect Dark 2 Xenon launch.

This is the reason for Rare.

Bungie will not have Halo 3 ready for Xenon launch.

Now Microsoft has a killer launch, with the sequel to the greastest FPS of all time.

 

[luxsol]

Or could this be an interesting thread to discuss... I mean WTF happened to RARE. When MSFT bought them I thought it was a huge buy for Xbox and we would see all kinds of great RARE games! But no.

Rare is a long term investment!... or some BS like that.

Someone's already said this long ago, but MS has invested in many other studios too and have either canned games from them or recieved something (as in an actual released game that sold well) to show that it a good choice to have those studios.

How much did they buy Bungie for and how big are they? What have they accomplished since MS acquired them? Now ask the same thing about Rare. Remember that both these companies had to basically start over on their games since they were acquired.

 

[Mr. Blonde]

Rare is done. Nintendo got some money, yeah, but gamecube didn't get any good Rare games like N64 did so there's no reason for Nintendo fans to be happy about it.

 

[GDGF]

Rare is ass. If MS had any brains they'd shut them down altogether. What a waste of money.

Seriously. Their best days are wayyyyyyyyyy behind them.

 

[Prine]

I mean WTF happened to RARE. When MSFT bought them I thought it was a huge buy for Xbox and we would see all kinds of great RARE games! But no.

Its kind of hard when people dont give them a chance, i mean at least wait until Kameo is released before making any judgement. GBTG was never going to be the game that proves Rare's worth, not even Xbox fans were interested in it.

Conker is shaping up to be an amazing title, the multiplayer looks fantastic, for me thats more than enough until Xenon comes out. Thats when i expect great things from Rare, starting from scratch on next gen hardware

 

[luxsol]

I don't think Rare is done, but they've definitely lost what made them special somewhere.

 

[Gek54]

Seriously. Their best days are wayyyyyyyyyy behind them.

3/4/2001 CBFD-N64

 

[mCACGj]

Seriously. Their best days are wayyyyyyyyyy behind them.

Yeah, especially since Nintendo isnt there to hold their hand.

 

[Prine]

Yeah, especially since Nintendo isnt there to hold their hand.

So what happened to SFA?

(i dont think its a bad game, but lots of nintendo faithfulls despise it)

 

[Gchaime]

So what happened to SFA?

It was released, unfortunately.

 

[Xellos]

Yeah, especially since Nintendo isnt there to hold their hand.

Sarcasm? IMO Rare's worst work was in games featuring Nintendo characters. Their original games were almost always better.

 

[neptunes]

they should have just payed for exclusive rights to perfect dark.

 

[luxsol]

So what happened to SFA?

(i dont think its a bad game, but lots of nintendo faithfulls despise it)

Because it's not really a Star Fox game. It started off as Dinosaur Planet and Nintendo thought it'd sell more if it were a Star Fox game (actual story went something like... Japanese Nintendo guy sees game and thinks "this seems to fit into the Star Fox universe").

 

[Prine]

Conker team is pretty much intact, so at least you haters have that series to look foward too. Also Perfect Dark guys except for Hollis are still at Rare

 

[neptunes]

Conker team is pretty much intact, so at least you haters have that series to look foward too. Also Perfect Dark guys except for Hollis are still at Rare

I'm pretty sure anyone who played a significant role in the development of perfect dark and goldeneye is has long gone left rare.

 

[Mashing]

I wonder if Bungie will be able to make anything other than Halo games? I'd hate getting pigeonholed like that if I was a developer but I doubt it'd happen anyway so I don't even know why I worry about it.

 

[luxsol]

I wonder if Bungie will be able to make anything other than Halo games? I'd hate getting pigeonholed like that if I was a developer but I doubt it'd happen anyway so I don't even know why I worry about it.

Isn't that why many Bungie employees have left?

What game was it that they were supposed to be working on after the first Halo was finished? Isn't that why one of the co-founders left when it was canned?

 

[Duckhuntdog]

I wonder if Bungie will be able to make anything other than Halo games? I'd hate getting pigeonholed like that if I was a developer but I doubt it'd happen anyway so I don't even know why I worry about it.

The team will be finding out shortly

 

[Duckhuntdog]

Isn't that why many Bungie employees have left?

What game was it that they were supposed to be working on after the first Halo was finished? Isn't that why one of the co-founders left when it was canned?

Well, MS promised Bungie royalties on Halo 2, but no one knows how much. Some team members are awaiting word on that before they start launching resumes. Other are waiting to see what game is next. Some people do not want to work on Halo 3.

 

[Duckhuntdog]

Also Perfect Dark guys except for Hollis are still at Rare

You don't know the PD/GE team well do you?

 

[element]

MS promised Bungie royalties on Halo 2

That would be insane if they did. Many of the other internal studios would flip out, not that they had anything to bargin on though.

Some people do not want to work on Halo 3.

some? I'd say more then that. I guess they want to try something different, like a true action title, much like how Halo was originally suppose to be.

Isn't that why one of the co-founders left when it was canned?

Alex mostly left because of family back in chicago, but also the managment system. Oil and water!!!

 

[Random_Hajile]

Perfect Dark Coming 2007 to Xbox2

Will not hold breath waiting..

 

[Duckhuntdog]

That would be insane if they did. Many of the other internal studios would flip out, not that they had anything to bargin on though.

some? I'd say more then that. I guess they want to try something different, like a true action title, much like how Halo was originally suppose to be.

Alex mostly left because of family back in chicago, but also the managment system. Oil and water!!!

I know how MS doesn't give royalties, but I think Bungie caught wind that Rare still has royalties in place and well, they played hardball. The royalty announcement should be happening next week for them, if MSG keeps their promise.

I said a few because I was being conservative.

I hear Hamilton got let go as well

 

[element]

I hear Hamilton got let go as well

WTF!!!! Hamilton was fucking awesome!! Even though he should have cut his hair!!

Bungie is fuxored!!

 

[MassiveAttack]

There is no doubt that Rare represents the most overblown and ill-conceived studio acquisition in the history of the business.

Ed Fries lost his job over it and Ken Lobb's new job appears to be playing the Rare apologist, i.e. desperately trying to justify the acquisition with vague references to what Rare will do 3, 4 or 5 years from now.

It doesn't require a rocket scientist to figure out that part of the due diligence in a $375M acquistion is determining what that investment can do to boost the fortunes of XBOX right NOW... not 5 years down the line where things become awfully hazy.

But there is a way to fix or at least start to fix Rare and it's something that should have been done and agreed upon when the studio was acquired.

Get rid of the Stamper Brothers. After all, who do you think roughly $180M of the purchase price went to? It's reason enough for them to move on and get out of the way.

 

[talking head]

i didn't know ugly art B.C. was cancelled.

 

[Ghost]

There is no doubt that Rare represents the most overblown and ill-conceived studio acquisition in the history of the business.

Ed Fries lost his job over it and Ken Lobb's new job appears to be playing the Rare apologist, i.e. desperately trying to justify the acquisition with vague references to what Rare will do 3, 4 or 5 years from now.

It doesn't require a rocket scientist to figure out that part of the due diligence in a $375M acquistion is determining what that investment can do to boost the fortunes of XBOX right NOW... not 5 years down the line where things become awfully hazy.

But there is a way to fix or at least start to fix Rare and it's something that should have been done and agreed upon when the studio was acquired.

Get rid of the Stamper Brothers. After all, who do you think roughly $180M of the purchase price went to? It's reason enough for them to move on and get out of the way.

MS could have had Conker and Kameo out by now if they'd wanted them, they are more interested in making rare a successfull aquisition long term than shutting up nintendo fan boys now, hence all the reorganisation thats still taking place.

The whole Xbox project is looking 5 years ahead, its pretty naive to assume they werent thinking in the same terms with Rare.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

^^^
Agreed.

I've faith that Rare's next-gen stuff will prove their worth.

 

[speedpop]

I've faith that Rare's next-gen stuff will prove their worth.

You better hope they do.

 

[Rocket Punch]

So what happened to SFA?

(i dont think its a bad game, but lots of nintendo faithfulls despise it)

It's a zelda clone by the numbers

Combat for dummies -- Press A til they die!

Collecta-thon -- typical Rare gameplay (TM)

Boring story -- help some stupid dinosaurs or something

horrible characters -- another Rare staple - Warpstone from never-ending story, anyone?

--

To its credit, it had great graphics.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

You better hope they do.

Why? Because the same haters will have more ammunition with which to sling their tired comments? Yes, I understand that Rare's releases since the start of this generation (or earlier, depending on your view) have been largely unpopular and generally considered to be of much less quality than is expected of them. What I don't understand is how people can simply write off the entire future for the developer, in terms of being able to put out great games.