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[FunkMiller]

They're adapting Hickman's Secret Wars. Doom is the villain in that.

Most of the MCU has been based on Hickman's Marvel from S.H.I.E.L.D. being Hydra, Thanos' Black Order, etc. After Endgame they've been building to Hickman's version of Secret Wars (not the 80s version made to sell action figures). They introduced Incursions early on in Doctor Strange, literally showed a character stuck in a different universe due to an Incursion in Marvels, and both Loki S2 and Deadpool & Wolverine introduced the Molecule Man part of Secret Wars (with Loki replacing him) and then the MCU's version of Hickman's Anchor idea. In his Secret Wars, Molecule Man put a part of himself in each universe as an Anchor to hold them together. In the MCU, Loki is holding all of the universe strands together while each universe has an Anchor being who causes the universe to fade away after they die. I wouldn't be shocked if they made Iron Man be the 616 Anchor being in Secret Wars.

OK, but there's no reason to cast RDJ other than desperation to recapture the glories of the past. And it's a massive mistake to continue to lean on the multiverse bullshit. That explanation you've given is convoluted as fuck, and the general audience are not going to respond well. They'll love RDJ being back, until it starts to make zero fucking sense.

 

[ManaByte]

And it's a massive mistake to continue to lean on the multiverse bullshit.

The ENTIRE PLOT of Hickman's Secret Wars is the multiverse. It's one of the greatest comics in the last 20 years and the whole point of it is that the multiverse dies. Universes literally smash into each other until everything is destroyed leaving only a battleworld ruled over by God Emperor Doom. In the end of it a new universe is created that combined the Marvel 616 and Ultimate universes into one. That's what they're doing with this, it'll be a bigger change than Endgame. It's a soft-reboot with the MCU characters, Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, and X-Men all existing in the same universe for the first time.

 

[FunkMiller]

The ENTIRE PLOT of Hickman's Secret Wars is the multiverse. It's one of the greatest comics in the last 20 years and the whole point of it is that the multiverse dies. Universes literally smash into each other until everything is destroyed leaving only a battleworld ruled over by God Emperor Doom. In the end of it a new universe is created that combined the Marvel 616 and Ultimate universes into one. That's what they're doing with this, it'll be a bigger change than Endgame. It's a soft-reboot with the MCU characters, Spider-Man, Fantastic Four, and X-Men all existing in the same universe for the first time.

Yes. I know it well. It's not a good plot to use for a cinematic universe meant to appeal to the casual audience.

I give DC a lot of shit, but at least they're not trying some Crisis bullshit to straighten things out. The MCU is a massive mess. I don't think the audience is going to go with what they're doing.

 

[ManaByte]

It's not a good plot to use for a cinematic universe meant to appeal to the casual audience.

They literally have a multiverse movie in theaters right now combining characters and actors from six different franchises and it's probably going to make at least $1.5 billion.

Hell there's a scene in the movie that is literally the argument in this thread playing out on screen where a well-known actor shows up and even the character on screen believe he's a very well known character and he turns out to be someone else.

 

[FunkMiller]

They literally have a multiverse movie in theaters right now combining characters and actors from six different franchises and it's probably going to make at least $1.5 billion.

Hell there's a scene in the movie that is literally the argument in this thread playing out on screen where a well-known actor shows up and even the character on screen believe he's a very well known character and he turns out to be someone else.

You keep bringing up Deadpool V Wolverine, but you're refusing to accept that it's popularity is due to the popularity of the characters in it.

You think anyone cares about the TVA, or wants to see an entire film series based around the multiverse? The concept works for a movie like Deadpool, because none of it is meant to be taken seriously.

 

[ManaByte]

Captain America is not a "variant" of Human Torch. Not sure I'm following you.

You might need to see a certain movie that released this weekend.

 

[Topher]

You might need to see a certain movie that released this weekend.

Ah....just saw the cast list. Interesting.

 

[Doom85]

The first test of the MCU again will be an actual MCU movie.

Spider-man NWH, Dr. Strange 2, Thor 4, Black Panther 2, and Guardians 3 were all financially successful. It just doesn’t get brought up much because it doesn’t fit the “superhero fatigue” narrative.

You think anyone cares about the TVA, or wants to see an entire film series based around the multiverse? The concept works for a movie like Deadpool, because none of it is meant to be taken seriously.

Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse

www.boxofficemojo.com

Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse

www.boxofficemojo.com

 

[jufonuk]

Dead Iron Man turning into Dr Doom actually sounds pretty cool, but I guess that we need more than one movie to have a build up. One of the reasons that Ultron was bad is because of the rush

 

[FunkMiller]

Spider-man NWH, Dr. Strange 2, Thor 4, Black Panther 2, and Guardians 3 were all financially successful. It just doesn’t get brought up much because it doesn’t fit the “superhero fatigue” narrative.

Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse

www.boxofficemojo.com

Spider-Man: Across the Spider-Verse

www.boxofficemojo.com

And they've also had some massive bombs. As I say, let's see what happens with the first MCU movie out of the blocks that doesn't rely on other franchises, memberberries or gimmick cameos...

Your point on Spider-verse is kind a valid, but the problem with the MCU is that the multiverse angle complicates a franchise that was built on much stronger and different foundations. They've used it for blatant memberberry/cameo stuff.... not good storytelling. You can't sustain an entire franchise on gotcha, gimmicky stuff. Not for long, anyway. This RDJ casting is another dumb gimmick in a long line of them.

 

[OmegaSupreme]

I'll see them but I'm still waiting for the damn X-men. Where's that announcement? Surely they've worked out how to bring them in by this point.

 

[ManaByte]

I'll see them but I'm still waiting for the damn X-men. Where's that announcement? Surely they've worked out how to bring them in by this point.

X-Men are in theaters right now.

 

[Trilobit]

Creepy, that was my first reaction.

This smells like fucking desperation lmao

Insanely creepy, this was my second thought! Either I'm hanging too much on Gaf or you're my mental doppelgangers.

---

Seriously, this just shows what a pathetic state the MCU is in right now. They should stop doing any more movies until the franchise has simmered enough in the boiling pot of oblivion. Then with fresh eyes and minds they can start something new and exciting 5-10 years into the future. Right now it's like they are dragging the corpse of a former race horse.

 

[Doom85]

And they've also had some massive bombs. As I say, let's see what happens with the first MCU movie out of the blocks that doesn't rely on other franchises, memberberries or gimmick cameos...

Your point on Spider-verse is kind a valid, but the problem with the MCU is that the multiverse angle complicates a franchise that was built on much stronger and different foundations. They've used it for blatant memberberry/cameo stuff.... not good storytelling. You can't sustain an entire franchise on gotcha, gimmicky stuff. Not for long, anyway. This RDJ casting is another dumb gimmick in a long line of them.

-“and they’ve had some massive bombs.“ Yes, and certain people focus only on those bombs. You know what I’m talking about. Hell, Ant-man 3 is brought up despite neither prior Ant-man film doing that well. Sure, 3 made the least, but this wasn’t a massively popular series suddenly losing a ton.

But your first claim was Deadpool and Wolverine was the successful MCU movie because other franchises built it up. Don’t move goalposts please, stick to your prior argument.

-good storytelling is subjective. Plus, again, your argument was about their being an audience for it, not the quality. Dr. Strange 2‘s box office would say, yes, there is an audience for it.

 

[ManaByte]

Almost 10 years to the day from when RDJ introduced Brolin as Thanos.

 

[FunkMiller]

-“and they’ve had some massive bombs.“ Yes, and certain people focus only on those bombs. You know what I’m talking about. Hell, Ant-man 3 is brought up despite neither prior Ant-man film doing that well. Sure, 3 made the least, but this wasn’t a massively popular series suddenly losing a ton.

But your first claim was Deadpool and Wolverine was the successful MCU movie because other franchises built it up. Don’t move goalposts please, stick to your prior argument.

-good storytelling is subjective. Plus, again, your argument was about their being an audience for it, not the quality. Dr. Strange 2‘s box office would say, yes, there is an audience for it.

Which is not what I've done, so not sure why you're bringing it up.

My point is that DvW is not a good indicator of where the MCU is currently at. The next real indicator will be Captain America.

I also don't think leaning on the multiverse stuff for the MCU is a good idea. Especially when they're doing it for gimmick reasons like the RDJ stunt casting.

It's lost its way since Endgame. I'm not seeing it get on track again with these announcements.

 

[ManaByte]

I also don't think leaning on the multiverse stuff for the MCU is a good idea. Especially when they're doing it for gimmick reasons like the RDJ stunt casting.

They announced Secret Wars years before the RDJ "stunt casting". Doom and a soft-reboot wiping out the multiverse was always the "endgame" of this saga.

 

[ManaByte]

 

[Doom85]

Which is not what I've done, so not sure why you're bringing it up.

My point is that DvW is not a good indicator of where the MCU is currently at. The next real indicator will be Captain America.

I also don't think leaning on the multiverse stuff for the MCU is a good idea. Especially when they're doing it for gimmick reasons like the RDJ stunt casting.

It's lost its way since Endgame. I'm not seeing it get on track again with these announcements.

-as I said in a prior post, I was bringing up the people who rely on the “superhero fatigue” narrative

-Guardians 3, a BO success, was barely over a year ago. Feels strange to act like the MCU needs to re-indicate already

-again, that’s subjective opinions about storytelling. Not relevant to discussing box office at the end of the day. The Mario movie and the Avatar films have very average scripts yet they’re massively successful.

 

[March Climber]

Yes. I know it well. It's not a good plot to use for a cinematic universe meant to appeal to the casual audience.

I don’t know if this is completely true anymore since casual audiences keep showing up.

You keep bringing up Deadpool V Wolverine, but you're refusing to accept that it's popularity is due to the popularity of the characters in it.

And it sounds like, from your own argument, they will be fine as long as they have strong A-listers or long term familiars in the forefront.

 

[\m/etalStorm]

Could have been a breakout role for a talented new Actor. I think Secret Wars should come first, Doomsday sounds more like Endgame. Weird choices.

 

[ManaByte]

Could have been a breakout role for a talented new Actor. I think Secret Wars should come first, Doomsday sounds more like Endgame. Weird choices.

They have to introduce Doom before Secret Wars though since he's the main villain in it.

Will probably have some tease of him in F4 next May. Then Doomsday is the Avengers fighting Doom and it could end with an Incursion that destroys the 616 universe. Then Secret Wars is set on Battleworld with everyone from every universe fighting God Emperor Doom.

You'll have Hugh Jackman, the Fox X-Men, Toby Maguire and Andrew Garfield, and all of the MCU characters fighting RDJ as Doom. $3-4 billion at the box office.

 

[*Nightwing]

The Disney laziness continues

 

[ManaByte]

 

[Panajev2001a]

Gotta tie it into the multiverse plans somehow since Kang is fucked off. Imagine how good it'll be for the Avengers and Spiderman to have to fight a version of their friend/mentor.

Could they… have recast Kang?

I think there were other problems, I think the concept was not the pull they imagined.

 

[IDKFA]

. $3-4 billion at the box office.

Lol. No.

It'll be successful, but making between 3bn and 4bn is crazy talk.

 

[IDKFA]

. $3-4 billion at the box office.

Lol. No.

It'll be successful, but making between 3bn and 4bn is crazy talk.

 

[Dr_Salt]

You guys understand he is playing Victor von Doom and not Tony Stark as Dr Doom right? Idk why people think he is playing a Tony Stark variant that became Dr Doom.

 

[ReBurn]

You guys understand he is playing Victor von Doom and not Tony Stark as Dr Doom right? Idk why people think he is playing a Tony Stark variant that became Dr Doom.

The Avengers are gonna be all "Dude wtf why do you look like Tony Stark?" and Doom is gonna be like "Multiverse, bro. I was never Tony Stark." and everyone is just gonna be ok with that except for Pepper Potts who is gonna be like "I can fix him."

 

[Dr_Salt]

The Avengers are gonna be all "Dude wtf why do you look like Tony Stark?" and Doom is gonna be like "Multiverse, bro. I was never Tony Stark." and everyone is just gonna be ok with that except for Pepper Potts who is gonna be like "I can fix him."

Yea I can totally see that happening lol.

 

[mansoor1980]

her reaction to dr doom

 

[LordCBH]

The Avengers are gonna be all "Dude wtf why do you look like Tony Stark?" and Doom is gonna be like "Multiverse, bro. I was never Tony Stark." and everyone is just gonna be ok with that except for Pepper Potts who is gonna be like "I can fix him."

And then gwenyth paltrow busts out her jeweled coochie egg.

 

[ManaByte]

You guys understand he is playing Victor von Doom and not Tony Stark as Dr Doom right? Idk why people think he is playing a Tony Stark variant that became Dr Doom.

Because facts don't apply with manufactured outrage.

 

[ManaByte]

 

[BlackTron]

The concept is great, but they should have kept the fact that it was RDJ until you actually see the movie imo.

The whole point is getting you to bother watching it...

 

[jason10mm]

Dude just won an oscar.

He's not playing a variant of tony stark, he's playing Victor Von doom, im sure he will be different enough from stark and he knows has to be for this to work.

But its the problem with famdoms, u people do your perfect cast things and are unable to accept anything else. Grow up!!

Eh, it was a shit year of noms in that category especially. RDJ put too much of himself into Tony Stark, I don't think I can unsee it in any other performance, the illusion is shattered. The Oppenheimer thing was a joke, his turn as Sherlock and Doolittle were veering into Johnny Depp style overacting. Maybe he can scrub away the crust and come at Doom fresh with and sinister take, but I'm dubious.

 

[LordCBH]

The concept is great, but they should have kept the fact that it was RDJ until you actually see the movie imo.

That actually would have been a pretty badass twist actually.

 

[jason10mm]

That actually would have been a pretty badass twist actually.

But they hired him for his BO draw, not because he was the best actor for the role or because it would have made sense in the story. If you don't KNOE he is in the film then asses don't sit in seats. Revealing him now is A. admission that the MCU is full of leaks and it would get out anyway, might as well capitalize on it, and B if it WAS kept a secret, the marketing of a $300+ million dollar film means they can't wait till it is released for word of mouth to spread his role, casting him is probably HALF the marketing spend of the film.

 

[ManaByte]

The concept is great, but they should have kept the fact that it was RDJ until you actually see the movie imo.

Would've been impossible to hide. He's likely going to the UK this week to film stuff for F4 and he'd be impossible to hide walking around Pinewood. And then when they're filming the two Avengers in Atlanta next year there will be paparazzi pictures of him everywhere.

 

[ReBurn]

And then gwenyth paltrow busts out her jeweled coochie egg.

And when she opens it there's a coochie scented candle inside.

 

[ResilientBanana]

So how are they going to explain that iron man came back to life and became dr doom? Are they going to get a Lazaurus Pit from DC and say he was ressurected? Pretty sure it was clear he was dead in avengers.

Iron man is the antichrist called it.

It’s the multiverse. Clearly he’s a variant of Tony Stark that took the wrong path.

 

[ManaByte]

It’s the multiverse. Clearly he’s a variant of Tony Stark that took the wrong path.

The Russos said he's Victor von Doom.

 

[Reizo Ryuu]

the truly perfect pick would be Mads Mikkelsen:

I'm struggling to think of any well known actor who could be "a perfect pick", Doom is this imposing, larger than life, imperious character, just an all-around fully serious giga chad, which mads mikkelsen isn't, when he speaks he always just sounds like he's "loud whispering", instead of being able to captivate an entire arena without a microphone; the perfect pick would be some unknown stage play actor with a commandeering voice, or better yet a voice actor, since Doom's mask should never come off anyway.
RDJ is a terrible choice too.

 

[ManaByte]

"We give you the one person who could play Victor von Doom."

 

[Doom85]

I'm struggling to think of any well known actor who could be "a perfect pick", Doom is this imposing, larger than life, imperious character, just an all-around fully serious giga chad, which mads mikkelsen isn't, when he speaks he always just sounds like he's "loud whispering", instead of being able to captivate an entire arena without a microphone; the perfect pick would be some unknown stage play actor with a commandeering voice, or better yet a voice actor, since Doom's mask should never come off anyway.
RDJ is a terrible choice too.

They could easily amplify Mads’ voice (also, Mads definitely had some loud deliveries in Casino Royale IIRC). Also I feel his Danish accent would work very well for someone from Latveria, a fictional country located in Europe.

 

[ChuckeRearmed]

The Russos said he's Victor von Doom.

I wonder if him looking like Tony Stark means that others will think that he is Tony or not. "Mr Stark..."

They could easily amplify Mads’ voice (also, Mads definitely had some loud deliveries in Casino Royale IIRC). Also I feel his Danish accent would work very well for someone from Latveria, a fictional country located in Europe.

The ultimate goal is to bring people to theaters and Wolverine demonstrated that bringing back legendary characters (and actors) works great. Like would Wolverine be successful without Hugh Jackman? Ryan Reynolds would have brought people to theaters, but Logan I think had a very strong pull there too. Arguably the whole first three phases of MCU was successful due to Chris Evans, RDJ and (debatable) Chris Hemsworth. Though I think it was mainly due to Chris Evans and RDJ.

And now with Doom they have no time to establish him a character, they have no time to make Fantastic Four more popular than it is now. RDJ immensely elevated Iron Man as IP - after all before Iron Man 1 it has never been that popular character.

P.S. I find it more hilarious that Era is unhappy that they did not cast Romani actor.

 

[Werewolf Jones]

MCU relying on nostalgia to sell tickets. Wish I could give a fuck.

 

[Urban]

So since its RDJ, they wont go "full villian" with doom but give him some sort of redemption

 

[Elbereth]

The whole point is getting you to bother watching it...

Doom getting his just due is enough. RDJ being cast as him doesn’t change that for me. To be honest, I would prefer someone else.

 

[phant0m]

The concept is great, but they should have kept the fact that it was RDJ until you actually see the movie imo.

Would have been an insane reveal that way