Already Torn
Banned
While I agree with this, I think the better way to phrase it would be that they don't understand what made Demon's Souls and Dark Souls so successful in the first place.
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LTTP: Dark Souls II. What the hell is this?
- Thread starter Nev
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FunkyMunkey
Banned
the entire op can be summed up as "this game doesn't play like i expect it to. i'm terrible at it therefore the game is terrible"
you got killed on that sword statue? many people did, that's the damn point. i've been replaying the game from fresh the last couple days and actually forgot about that trap. i turned around and timed my dodges and attacks and killed them with zero damage (two swords, no shield). the mechanics of the game take time to get used to and you have to plan out all your moves in a fight (everything uses stamina)
you got killed on that sword statue? many people did, that's the damn point. i've been replaying the game from fresh the last couple days and actually forgot about that trap. i turned around and timed my dodges and attacks and killed them with zero damage (two swords, no shield). the mechanics of the game take time to get used to and you have to plan out all your moves in a fight (everything uses stamina)
Already Torn
Banned
It added a lot more in
Read again.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
What insulting drivel is this? Seriously.
Define "bullshit"
Actually please don't, it gets too exhausting to address the nonsense over and over.
Uh-huh. Sure.
FunkyMunkey
Banned
oh yeah. complaints about level/enemy/weapon variety, sounds, and then everything else about mechanics related to difficulty
"why can't i play it this way and not get destroyed? therefore the game is bad"
This way of thinking is beyond stupid. People liked Dark Souls for a variety of reasons, be combat, be lore, be level design, be build variety...
Saying that someone that defends Dark 2 (even though it may not be his favorite game) doesn't get what Dark Souls is straight offensive and just dumb. It's that elitist mindset that part of the fanbase have that people point and laugh in other threads.
At the end, Dark Souls 2 was succesfull, it sold a lot and it had a lot of positive reactions (even with ackowledging it's problems). With that reasoning, like almost all of Dark Souls players didn't get what they were playing.
Gormenghast
Member
I don't understand why people want the game to shoehorn everything into ONE playstyle.
I played Demon Souls essentially without being able to roll AT ALL, because I used a heavy armor and big shield. It makes for a more tactical and even plausible/realistic combat rather than rolling around like crazy like people want.
If Dark Souls made this rolling around at all times thing popular it's only because people learned to overlevel and outpace the armor/weight restrictions through insanely high stats.
Essentially: most players like their game broken. Now complain because Dark Souls 2 doesn't break as easily.
Celebrating the fact Dark Souls breaks and can be exploited so easily isn't good at all. Dark Souls repairs only SOME of that, and players are still pissed (I'd like for example the AI to learn not constantly fall and allow for cheese mechanics, it would be a HUGE improvement).
There's also seem to be the desire to make everything into Devil May Cry, instead of more slow paced, tactical combat. So, Dark Souls likely more ruined by players in the future.
Since it does a good job of articulating the games biggest missteps with specific examples I'd say posting it in these discussions is useful.
It especially explains well the viewpoint of someone who started playing these games at Demons and can help people understand why those sorts of fans are down on DS2.
I would also recommend Fungo's:
http://youtu.be/MZz3lA7OgJA
Since almost every major design decision in DS2 bears out this summary I don't see how it's insulting or drivel.
Demoskinos
Member
Here is the fun thing about what you said. What makes "a good souls game" is entirely subjective.
Ninja Sharingan
Banned
I'm playing through dark souls 2 again. It's a very good game and I'm about to start the dlc fir the first time. I think it's the weakest souls game but still great
Fancy Clown
Member
It's still pretty good, but yeah there's a pretty huge divide in the quality between DS2 and the other games. Level design, boss fights, story, art direction, music, characters,enemy design and placement...it's all quite a bit worse.
And the more I played it, the less I liked it
And the more I played it, the less I liked it
Iva Demilcol
Member
Stop this condescending nonsense. For what we've seen so far from the games that followed Dark Souls, the devs acknowledged the issues present in both Demon's and DS and tried to come up with solutions to those issues. You may not like what the devs did in BB or DSII but disregarding another people's opinions in that way adds nothing to the discussion.
I made this comment in other thread but I think it is more relevant to this thread than in the one I posted it originally:
Hatty
Member
I hate how it moves and I hate how the combat feels. Everything feels floaty and strange. The art direction and level design seem lacking as well. Seems like most people like it for the build variety and the PvP both of which I couldn't care less for so maybe that's why it's my least favorite. Never played that DLC though despite owning SOTFS
Already Torn
Banned
People liked it for a lot of reasons, but I think the series became so successful because it's more than a sum of its parts, and Dark Souls II doesn't achieve that. Which is what I said 😁
And Dark Souls 2 was successful because it's the sequel to one of the best games ever made.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Do you have any sources for these statements? Not that I disagree with most, in fact it's obvious why Soul Memory, as misguided as it was, was included. But as far as I know, the insta-backstabs are back in Dark Souls 3, so I'm not sure about that one. Personally I greatly prefer the Bloodborne version of it.
I hope proper invasions are back though. It sucks that outside of the nightmares, you can't be invaded without coop in Bloodborne.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
I tried all the spells, and they were doing shit damage and 50 FTH and 50 INT (way over the softcap...). Resonant Souls and similar spells were doing shit damage as well, which were the most powerfull spells.
I was doing like 300 dmg with dark orb, Watcher Greatsword was doing like 600+ with 2 hits.
The point of no return was when Darkstorm, stopped doing damage after 3 hits or so, so my character was still on the spell animation but the game decided I did enough damage....
Hell, even Blue flame sword buffed with magic, was wore effective.
And my point about trick weapon wasn't for dual weilding but rather offering a distinct moveset to the same weapons with a button.
That's the point though, I needed to have a weapon with dark buff, because only spells was not an option, so much for build variety!!
It is the Ancient Dragon. I couldn't tank it at all. I got OHKOed every single time I faced him. It was the worst boss design ever conceived in a Souls game. No character in the game should've been OHKOed by such a large AoE at any point in the game. That's terrible boss design. The only way I could beat it was not wearing armor and having a perfect fight against a boss that would use the grand total of like 3 moves the entire time. It was 20 minutes of pure concentrated boredom.
Good to hear they addressed it in SOTFS but the boss itself is still extremely shit.
False King is designed to be the final boss for Demon's. You can face him when you feel like it but 1-4 has got end game written all over it.
False King, Gwyn,
Gehrman
Nashandra on the other hand was a terrible boss all round. Shit curse mechanic that didn't really affect the fight and she was just so easy. Nothing felt beautiful about the fight. There was no melancholy.
Aldia
Actually, it was the perfect way to cap off my disappointment in Dark Souls 2.
Lux R7
Member
Miyazaki is back at the helm, so DS3 is safe. Any flaws it will have will be glossed over.
Le'ts suppose for a moment that not everyone is an idiot and that when people say that they saw and experienced something different when they played a game directed by Miyazaki, they are actually telling the truth.
I think that Miyazaki is an amazing game designer and that his games show his touch (in lore, story, gameplay, artistic direction, npcs ecc). Ds3 will have flaws like every other game, but i'm SURE that we'll get a game that will feel masterfully directed in every of those aspetcs and more.
I'm perfectly fine with people saying that they can't "feel" the difference, but please, let's try to believe to the opposite opinion too.
Already Torn
Banned
I just finished SotFS, and I can agree that those last three bosses are some of the worst in the game. And then that ending. They really dropped the ball in atmosphere and lore.
I guess that's what Miyazaki really brings to the table?
I guess that's what Miyazaki really brings to the table?
DoubleTake
Member
In DS3 the backstabs arent instant. It uses the windup of Ds2 but now its blended into the animation better. So if you miss a backstab you wont completely whiff and it just turns into an R1. It seems like itll be harder to BS fish in PvP going by the Network Test but in PvE backstabbing enemies will be just as easy as its always been. Not that difficult to manipulate the AI in these games.
The jury is still out for solo invasions though. In the NT it worked like BB. I really hope theyre back. Thats one thing I really really missed in my 1st BB playthrough. Never got invaded until the nightmares because I dont summon.
Also this. Its as if people choose to not believe Miyazaki and other devs at From when they say he has his hand in almost everything about these games. The difference is there. Just that some choose to ignore it.
Dark Souls 2 was successfull because it's a great game, easy as that. Yes, some people don't like it, which is fine. Those bs statements that those who do like it doesn't understand gotta stop, it's stupid and insulting.
Iva Demilcol
Member
Posted this by mistake.
Already Torn
Banned
I don't think Dark Souls 2 would have done well if it didn't have those other games propping it up. Did Lords of the Fallen do well?
ChetWilson
Banned
What? Are you serious? You are telling me that my point about NMW being bullshit city is irrelevant because you can backdoor Blighttown?
Please explain to me, via the backdoor, how you can dodge roll past 3 of the club guys, then dodge roll your way to the bottom by the water wheel, kill 2 bugs, and then run past the rockthrowers to Quelaag compares to the issues with NMW???
NMW is one of those zones that after the fact, might seem cool, but really should have been rebalanced. I think if they got rid of the viking 'swimmers' and those manikin ninjas or whatever near the end that come out of nowhere, it would probably be enough.
Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
Its funny, I still feel that Demons' has the best and most satisfying ending in the series. Dark Souls ending is to my mind the weakest of them all, although the damage is mitigated a lot by the sub-plot endings being so memorable.
Bloodborne for me sits somewhere in the middle, being abrupt and truthfully a bit on the easy side.
DaciaJC
Gold Member
How are trick weapons a vast improvement over power stancing?
Already Torn
Banned
No Man's Wharf was one of the only areas in the game I enjoyed a lot haha. That and the Gutter, which was really fun to walk around and I think turned out better than upper Blighttown in a few ways in part because of frame rate. But then Black Gulch sucks.
Whereas in DS2 you fight two guys who are in a place and then a monster lady shows up and does curse stuff but then you kill her. And then Aldia shows up and you kill him but not really. Then you sit in a chair.
I think the ending works well. Between Gywn and his theme, you really feel like the game is ending in the same way the first flame is ending. You get like this weird anxiety because Gwyn is still so proud but so pathetic. I guess it ends abruptly, but it doesn't need to have a dumb speech like DS2.
Whereas in DS2 you fight two guys who are in a place and then a monster lady shows up and does curse stuff but then you kill her. And then Aldia shows up and you kill him but not really. Then you sit in a chair.
Lux R7
Member
black gulch would have been ok if it wasn't a corridor imho.
Also the bar is 3x the size with caramel smeared all over
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Because the extra moveset is mostly shit and limited, compared to what trick weapons brings to table.
Hatty
Member
Works for me because caramel is bad
DoubleTake
Member
Excluding the DLCs which were far and away the best areas of the game, I'd have to say my favorite area in Ds2 was Drangleic Castle. The interior was nowhere near what an actual castle would look like but in terms of enemy placement and the boss not being bad it was a success, relative to the rest of Ds2. Wish it was actually as evocative inside as it looks outside.
I dont think the two can even be really compared...But I do feel weapon arts are much better than powerstancing.
I dont think the two can even be really compared...But I do feel weapon arts are much better than powerstancing.
Dark 2 being a sequel of a good game (or best ever) doesn't mean shit. Plenty of sequels of good games got trashed by everyone (critics and players) DMC2, Dragon Age 2, Catlevania LoS2 (well I hated the first part of this one but a lot of people liked it....)
With this, I stand with my opinion that people can like Dark 2 for a variety of reasons, and that doesn't mean they don't get it. There's people that started with Dark 1 that likes 2, I got a couple of friends that liked 2 better, and even though I don't agree, that doesn't mean I do get what Dark Souls is and they don't.
Come on now, no one is saying Dark 2 is better than Dark 1 in all of that list. We are just saying that even though it may be inferior to the first game, it's still a damn good game and an awesome Dark Souls one.
It is amusing that in every Dark Souls 2 hate thread everyone defending the game have to keep stating that he likes Dark 1 better because defending Dark 2 = thinking it's the best game ever, not acknowledging it's problems, and not getting what is Dark Souls.
Already Torn
Banned
Yeah, that makes sense. I didn't enjoy the poison statues much at all as a melee character.
Iva Demilcol
Member
Yes, backstabs coming back in almost the same way seems like a regression to me but, at the same time we've seen that there are some enemies that have movements that kind of prevent backstabs (the knights in the network test area) and I hope that by using their weapons you are allowed to prevent backstabs in the same way.
Of course, the only source I have for those statements is my own comment. As I've said before, I am convinced changes in the combat mechanics were made to prevent that experienced players abused some resources (parries and backstabs) while playing both DS and BB. Of course, since the development of BB took more time, the changes they made to the formula were more polished than the ones present in DSII. My original comment was a reply to the notion that the DSII dev team didn't understand what made the Soulsborne series great, I wasn't trying to say that the changes they Madeleine flawless or something.
DaciaJC
Gold Member
But only a couple of trick weapons allow for dual-wielding in the first place. I disagree that the powerstancing moveset is not useful, but I'm wondering why a comparison was made in the first place, since each system accomplishes something different.
J_ToSaveTheDay
Member
I certainly don't like Dark Souls 2 as much as I like Dark Souls 1, Bloodborne, and even Demon's (although I never finished Demon's)... But I did play it enough to admit that it was an alright game, still. I got it the day it came out on PS3, and then rebought it the day it came out on PC about a month later, and in both versions I got up to the swamp area where there's vapors that poison you (I forgot what it's called, sorry). More or less got frustrated at that part.
There was a learning curve I never got really comfortable with coming out of multiple playthroughs of Dark Souls 1. It always felt like PVE combat had taken a significant downturn in terms of the player being able to achieve mastery over it, as OP said, because there's sort of a less reliable way to tell how the enemy is going to react to being hit, or how I'm going to get hit, or really whether some of my attacks are going to connect at all. I didn't examine the evidence in detail, so I can't say for sure where the problem comes from exactly, but it never quite felt like I was ever really mastering the game with multiple tries -- it felt like I was more or less rolling the dice and getting lucky sometimes.
I did pick up Scholar of the First Sin for about 19.99 for my PS4 a while back. I played a cumulative of about 30 hours between PC and PS3, so I definitely didn't hate the game despite my lesser feelings about it compared to other Souls games. Have yet to really work into that version though. Maybe I'll give it a shot this week.
There was a learning curve I never got really comfortable with coming out of multiple playthroughs of Dark Souls 1. It always felt like PVE combat had taken a significant downturn in terms of the player being able to achieve mastery over it, as OP said, because there's sort of a less reliable way to tell how the enemy is going to react to being hit, or how I'm going to get hit, or really whether some of my attacks are going to connect at all. I didn't examine the evidence in detail, so I can't say for sure where the problem comes from exactly, but it never quite felt like I was ever really mastering the game with multiple tries -- it felt like I was more or less rolling the dice and getting lucky sometimes.
I did pick up Scholar of the First Sin for about 19.99 for my PS4 a while back. I played a cumulative of about 30 hours between PC and PS3, so I definitely didn't hate the game despite my lesser feelings about it compared to other Souls games. Have yet to really work into that version though. Maybe I'll give it a shot this week.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Is not about dual welding, is about the extra moveset with the press of a button. In the case of powerstancing is terribly dissapointing IMO.
whiskeyshotguns
Neo Member
This thread made me smile.
Dark Souls is one of my favorite games and I beat it twice before playing II. Also touched Demon's Souls (yet to complete it, unfortunately). Beat Bloodborne upon release, in the process of a second playthrough.
Dark Souls II wasn't disappointing when I played it upon release. I definitely noticed that things were different, but there were still things I thought it did better. I felt there was more variety, for one. The coop worked better. The PvP felt better, and I greatly enjoyed the bell and rat covenants. I do think the game feels worse than DS1, and I certainly dislike the environments and enemy placements far more in II when compared to I, BB, or Demon's. I felt that I wasn't disappointed until I was looking back at the game in retrospect. Or when I was replaying the game, and constantly quitting when I got to the Iron Keep. Fuck I hate the Iron Keep.
My favorite thing about Dark Souls II besides the fashion, however, is the DLC--or, rather, the repackaging of the entire game along with the DLC when they release Scholar of the First Sin. Now I haven't yet completed it, because fuck the Iron Keep, but I just love how they changed certain item placements and enemy locations with this version of the game. It may be better, yes, but having the context of the original locations and placements makes the experience so interesting and unlike anything I've experienced in video games. It's just a nice surprise when you open up a chest (not telling you where) and a goddamn mini-boss emerges from the ground, silently, to do battle with you. It's great!
I'm definitely playing this game tonight.
Dark Souls is one of my favorite games and I beat it twice before playing II. Also touched Demon's Souls (yet to complete it, unfortunately). Beat Bloodborne upon release, in the process of a second playthrough.
Dark Souls II wasn't disappointing when I played it upon release. I definitely noticed that things were different, but there were still things I thought it did better. I felt there was more variety, for one. The coop worked better. The PvP felt better, and I greatly enjoyed the bell and rat covenants. I do think the game feels worse than DS1, and I certainly dislike the environments and enemy placements far more in II when compared to I, BB, or Demon's. I felt that I wasn't disappointed until I was looking back at the game in retrospect. Or when I was replaying the game, and constantly quitting when I got to the Iron Keep. Fuck I hate the Iron Keep.
My favorite thing about Dark Souls II besides the fashion, however, is the DLC--or, rather, the repackaging of the entire game along with the DLC when they release Scholar of the First Sin. Now I haven't yet completed it, because fuck the Iron Keep, but I just love how they changed certain item placements and enemy locations with this version of the game. It may be better, yes, but having the context of the original locations and placements makes the experience so interesting and unlike anything I've experienced in video games. It's just a nice surprise when you open up a chest (not telling you where) and a goddamn mini-boss emerges from the ground, silently, to do battle with you. It's great!
I'm definitely playing this game tonight.
test_account
XP-39C²
Yeah, thats why it looks strange
The mountain in the background should have been closer. Here is a picture that shows the mountain better:
Its a similar senario in Aldia's Keep when you take the long elevator up to the skies. If you try to make out whats on top of the elevator from the bottom, you cant really see that anything is up there. Maybe these things brake the illusion a bit, but at least it does make sense geographically.
Polioliolio
Member
I put a shit ton of hours into Dark Souls 2.. About as much time in one play through as I spent in 3 Dark Souls playthroughs..
I don't want to say I regret playing the game, but in the end, I spent a stupid amount of time playing a game that didn't meet expectations and I would probably say is inferior in every regard compared to the others.
Good enough game on its own, but it tries to jape the first game and fails in each category except amount of content. I would have actually preferred the game to be wildly different than feel so samey yet inferior.
I don't want to say I regret playing the game, but in the end, I spent a stupid amount of time playing a game that didn't meet expectations and I would probably say is inferior in every regard compared to the others.
Good enough game on its own, but it tries to jape the first game and fails in each category except amount of content. I would have actually preferred the game to be wildly different than feel so samey yet inferior.