uncelestial
Member
Personally I think you reached the correct conclusion on all six of them and I'm impressed with that!
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LTTP: Star Wars
- Thread starter freeofgreed
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Bobby Roberts
Banned
The idea that a director has to be a pre-existing fan of a property before telling the story is a weird bit of conventional wisdom that isn't even borne out. The best Star Trek movie (Wrath of Khan) was directed by a guy who hadn't watched more than a single episode of Star Trek before getting the job. Irvin Kershner wasn't exactly a Star Wars nerd when he got the job to direct Empire.
Colin Trevorrow is a giant fan of Jurassic Park and that ended up having nothing to do with the quality of the film he turned out. Mark Steven Johnson loved Daredevil to death...
...
...yeah.
OricWindstar
Member
ROTJ has a lot of the worst moments from the Original Trilogy, but it also has some of the best. For every annoying Ewok scene, you have an Emperor scene. But I agree, it is the weakest of the three.
This line of thinking always annoys me as well. In fact, I think it sometimes is helpful for the person to be a bit removed from the material to bring something fresh to it.
Sir_Crocodile
Member
well that'd certainly confirm the "average" bit
That's fair enough. The thing with JJ is that - at least for me - he proved himself to be a very good blockbuster director. And that coupled with the fact that he's also passionate about Star Wars makes me think he can effectively deliver.
On the other hand, a bloke like Trevorrow never did convince me of anything no matter how much he loved JP because he only ever did one indie feature film, especially one I didn't like that much altogether. Also, though I did kinda-sorta-but not really like JP, it really was because of my dumb-fun dino nostalgia, and I'm sure that I won't enjoy it as much on later viewings.
Shit, that makes sense. Damn. Nice post dude.
The best thing to come out of The Phantom of Menace was the hour-long documentary about its production that came with the DVD. To this day I'm absolutely convinced that whoever was in charge of producing that doc knew from the beginning what an absolute train wreck the movie was going to be and made it a point to show every failed aspect of the production right up until the very end. It practically ends with Lucas proclaiming to a completed bewildered and defeated looking group of production staff who had all just finished watching a cut of the film, "I think I may have gone too far."
If you like D & D, this is a great way to spend your time after watching the series:
http://www.darthsanddroids.net/episodes/0001.html
I also recommend the Plinkett reviews
http://www.darthsanddroids.net/episodes/0001.html
I also recommend the Plinkett reviews
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
The fact that Anakin's characterization is so much more amazing in the clone wars, especially the 3D version than in the film is ridiculous. He actually goes in line with how he's described in the 1st movie and has a natural progression from good guy to a person who will inevitably become darth vader. Damn it Lucas.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Either they should have made him a straight out good guy who makes a succession of bad choices with the absolute best intentions in mind, or they should have made him a real dickhead with *juuuuust* enough of a charming streak to make you want to forgive what an asshole he is.
Instead, they gave us a milquetoast whiner and elbowed us in the ribs every 5 minutes with references to the original trilogy like "eh? EH? He's gonna be THAT GUY soon!"
Tertullian
Member
OP's opinions are on point. Good to see he agrees TPM is weaker than AotC.
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
This. If you can get a copy of the out-of-print theatrical cut of TESB, DO IT. One of the best films ever made, and my single favorite movie of all time. It's my first movie memory, 4 years old in the theater before the hell that would be my childhood arrived. So fucking amazing.
The Lamonster
Member
I'm a lifelong SW fan and I agree with the ranking in the OP.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
They're better. They're not WAAAAAAAAAY better. Some of the changes are annoying. Some are welcomed. The originals have a much tighter pace, definitely. But the idea that there's some sort of huge leap in quality from one to the other is kinda silly. At the worst, you're still watching 95-97% the exact same movie as the originals when you watch the blu-ray cuts. To say that 3-5% makes THAT much difference is hyperbolic at the least. It also lessens the quality of the other 95-97% by comparison. You're saying those few changes make all the great stuff around it suddenly not worth it. I don't buy that.
The originals ARE better. But the minutes-worth of mostly superfical changes the blu-ray cuts add don't diminish the quality of the films THAT much. Just enough to make it briefly annoying for a certain segment of fans.
It's like when people argue that the Ridley Scott director's cut (which wasn't) of Blade Runner transformed that film from a turd into a bonafide classic. No - it made a classic even better. But the original's quality is what allowed it to endure beyond its initial lukewarm reception in the first place. The Director's Cut (and later, Final Cut) are better versions of the film, but that doesn't retroactively make the original a massive puddle of offal and excrement in the least.
Also, Attack of the Clones is so fucking inept as a motion picture I'm surprised people are ranking it above Phantom Menace. Phantom Menace at least has decent cinematography and the best of the prequel scores. Attack of the Clones has a worse story, worse characterization, the worst direction in any Star Wars movie, the largest collection of the worst scenes, it's the ugliest of the six films, and has 2/3rds of a completed score, with 1/3rd of it hacked to shit from the previous movie and jammed into the climax.
Chmpocalypse
Blizzard
I fulfilled my childhood dream of moving to Hollywood - a literal block away from the Chinese theater - the day TPM opened. Saw it at that theater the next day.
Crushed.
Man List wars when Ep 7 hits are going to be a Nightmare to update.
My personal ranking is
5>3=4>1>6>2.
I enojyed Jar Jar as a 7 year old, and I find him so annoying-is-funny now. But I commend Lucas for backing down for once on his screen time
I found 2 boring, but loved the scenes with Yoda, Dooku and the Clones at the end....however it was too little too late.
4 just happens way too fast, then gets a bit stale at the Death Star, and suddenly Obi Wan is gone, let's go fight on starships...I dunno, felt rushed.
6 is just WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too boring. Ewoks just made it worse. The Battle against Jaba and the final battle are drown on boring and stale moments
However I love everything Star Wars related. I really enjoy each film everytime, I just turn my critic switch off, and done, 2 hours of pure enjoyment
Op, as soon as you finish The Clone Wars, make sure to watch Rebels, it's a pseudo sequel to the series taking place between 3 and 4. Full of lovable characters and many familiar faces from the Prequels, the Originals, and The Clone Wars
My personal ranking is
5>3=4>1>6>2.
I enojyed Jar Jar as a 7 year old, and I find him so annoying-is-funny now. But I commend Lucas for backing down for once on his screen time
I found 2 boring, but loved the scenes with Yoda, Dooku and the Clones at the end....however it was too little too late.
4 just happens way too fast, then gets a bit stale at the Death Star, and suddenly Obi Wan is gone, let's go fight on starships...I dunno, felt rushed.
6 is just WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too boring. Ewoks just made it worse. The Battle against Jaba and the final battle are drown on boring and stale moments
However I love everything Star Wars related. I really enjoy each film everytime, I just turn my critic switch off, and done, 2 hours of pure enjoyment
Op, as soon as you finish The Clone Wars, make sure to watch Rebels, it's a pseudo sequel to the series taking place between 3 and 4. Full of lovable characters and many familiar faces from the Prequels, the Originals, and The Clone Wars
Warm Machine
Member
yeah the Star Wars cuts available today are pretty much the same movies. Only 1 thing changed in A New Hope and the rest were pretty well improvements or service fo the saga, such as cutting Jabba back in.
Clarifying the shuttle in Empire is a improvement as fas as I'm concerned and besides the extra wampa shot that is all that changed. Jedi only has a handful of changes and most except Vader's "Nooo" and young Anakin are welcome. I really like the ewok eye blink.
Jedi remains the most dull movie in the series though. The opening puppet show and the bored to death cast and linear plotting has the whole thing landing like a thud. Man the action directing on the tattooine skiff and barge is god awful. Stunt men are moving in slow motion. Yeah that speeder bike scene did not age well. In fact the whole movie looks older than Empire because the lighting and photography is no where near as nice.
Clarifying the shuttle in Empire is a improvement as fas as I'm concerned and besides the extra wampa shot that is all that changed. Jedi only has a handful of changes and most except Vader's "Nooo" and young Anakin are welcome. I really like the ewok eye blink.
Jedi remains the most dull movie in the series though. The opening puppet show and the bored to death cast and linear plotting has the whole thing landing like a thud. Man the action directing on the tattooine skiff and barge is god awful. Stunt men are moving in slow motion. Yeah that speeder bike scene did not age well. In fact the whole movie looks older than Empire because the lighting and photography is no where near as nice.
I recently watched the original trilogy for the first time ever and I thought they were decent at best, I don't quite understand the fanatical following it has. Darth Vader stood out in particular as an incredibly boring villain.I didn't like any of the characters honestly, but don't dislike them either, they're all meh. I also didn't understand the Solo, Leia love story. It all happened so quickly I thought I missed a few scenes, but nope..And Leia was the only women between three films? I dunno, I guess they're not for me. Not sure I'll bother with the other three
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Yeah, the new one needs to grab folks like you more than it needs to appeal to people like us, honestly. It needs to be a viable hop-on point for people who are either total newcomers, or viewers for whom Star Wars never quite clicked.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
He has aspects of all three in the 3D clone wars. Sometimes he's whines or is petty, sometimes he's a dick, sometimes they are really open about him turning into darth vader, and sometimes he's a a straight good guy with the best intentions who makes mistakes, it all works because that's how he's supposed to be, a person with flaws instead of a whiny asshole all the time.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
I know, I was speaking specifically of his film portrayal, which is why the Clone Wars ended up having to do so much heavy lifting to rehab the character.
They didn't all the way succeed, either. They do a lot of that riding the fence milquetoast bullshit/winking, elbow-to-the-ribs foreshadowing in the show, too. But every now and then they got an arc in there by a writer who picked a side of the fence for Anakin to come down on, and they kept him there for the entirety of the arc, and those are the arcs that made his character work.
It's always fun to hear what people new to the franchise think, so thanks for leaving some detailed and interesting thoughts!
If you're interested in behind-the-scenes stuff, then the documentary "Empire of Dreams" is really worth watching if you can get your hands on it. It's included in some box sets of the original trilogy. J. W. Rinzler's "making of" books for the OT are fantastic achievements. The Secret History of Star Wars is also probably worth a look, though the Rinzler books sorta stole its thunder.
If you're interested in behind-the-scenes stuff, then the documentary "Empire of Dreams" is really worth watching if you can get your hands on it. It's included in some box sets of the original trilogy. J. W. Rinzler's "making of" books for the OT are fantastic achievements. The Secret History of Star Wars is also probably worth a look, though the Rinzler books sorta stole its thunder.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
As well they should. The information contained in Secret History is good, but it's available most everywhere else now (thanks especially to the Rinzler books) and without the absurdly slanted narrative that comes along with Secret History's facts.
Crossing Eden
Hello, my name is Yves Guillemot, Vivendi S.A.'s Employee of the Month!
True it wasn't always perfect.
GringoSuave89
Banned
There was a complete analysis video with the "skits" edited out, and I much prefer that version. Sadly I can't find it now.
Mr Plinkett is a character that reviews movies, but is also generally gross and keeps women (typically drifters) in his basement. Kinda has a snuff film vibe, and I guess it's suppose to be comedy, but I don't like it much either. It never goes all the way in the depictions, and at least with the Star Wars videos his captive kinda joins in on the Prequel slamming, but again, it's pretty bleh.
Stiflers Mom
Banned
I remember feeling puzzled after watching TPM.
I liked some scenes, but overall it didn't feel that star wars to me. And I thought, it can only get better...
Well, and then AOTC happened...
puh...
SamuelSupreme
Banned
I'm fucking dying LOL...Honestly George Lucas is amazing when it comes to creating the over-arching theme and plot points with these movies. He was his own worst enemy. Should I have just played the part of producer and gotten a strong Director (God imagine if Spielberg took up the directing reigns? or if Gary Kurtz and Irvin Kershner were brought on) and Heath Ledger should have been casted as Anakin Skywalker!
Time to watch the hilarious abridged versions of ep 1-3
http://youtu.be/WSCm8yAxBr8?list=PLINl9l0igYjzIipxsD4Y59_Jjxe4N3pZo
http://youtu.be/WSCm8yAxBr8?list=PLINl9l0igYjzIipxsD4Y59_Jjxe4N3pZo
OP watched them all by himself adn came out with the correct opinions. Good Job. Now go watch the Plinkett reviews.
Eh, I don't think the Star Trek movies work (besides the 09' film) unless you watch the series first.
Eh, I don't think the Star Trek movies work (besides the 09' film) unless you watch the series first.
cyberheater
PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 PS4 Xbone PS4 PS4
Watch this to push in to sharp relief what a pile of retconned shite episodes 1, 2 and 3 are.
Lies Obi Wan Told Me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vXcBDQy-RY
Lies Obi Wan Told Me
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9vXcBDQy-RY
Lifejumper
Member
Being born in 94' I feel kinda blessed that the OT was my first sw experience. Lols.
Escape Goat
Member
But you missed growing up in the 80s/90s. Your life is hollow. Im sorry, young one.
freeofgreed
Member
So i watched both the Harry Plinkett reviews and the 2003 Clone wars show. The Harry Plinkett reviews were great. TPM one especially, was both very insightfull and hilarious. I do think that by the time he got to the 3rd movie they became a bit less funny, and I honestly felt a few of his greviences were a bit nit-picky/reaches. But overall it was very insightfull.
Clone wars was excellent. i remember seeing a bit of it when it aired on CN back in the day, but this is my first time watching all of it. This series ties together episodes 2&3 together flawlessly. Honestly after watching it and realizing that it was in fact made between episodes 2&3 I feel as though watching this in between those two films is kinda mandatory as it explains a lot of shit that was left vague in episode 3 (Like when did Anakin become a jedi knight, where his scar came from, why was C3PO gold, who was General Grievous and why was he coughing all the time). Hell I'm actually beginning to think that Lucas made episode 3 with the assumption that people watched this series before hand. From my understanding the 2008 show is basically an alternate retelling of the events in this show, but I'm curious how they'll handle it since this show handles the intrium so perfectly.
Clone wars was excellent. i remember seeing a bit of it when it aired on CN back in the day, but this is my first time watching all of it. This series ties together episodes 2&3 together flawlessly. Honestly after watching it and realizing that it was in fact made between episodes 2&3 I feel as though watching this in between those two films is kinda mandatory as it explains a lot of shit that was left vague in episode 3 (Like when did Anakin become a jedi knight, where his scar came from, why was C3PO gold, who was General Grievous and why was he coughing all the time). Hell I'm actually beginning to think that Lucas made episode 3 with the assumption that people watched this series before hand. From my understanding the 2008 show is basically an alternate retelling of the events in this show, but I'm curious how they'll handle it since this show handles the intrium so perfectly.
Rumor has it C3-PO and R2-D2 will be in it as well.
JJ Abrams has been very unremarkable so far. Yes, he is better than Bay, but it feels like thats about it. Dude is just.. there. If his movies all the sudden would vanish from earth, it wouldn't feel like we would miss something.
That's relative to pop-culture impact though more than a quality film.
The Bayformers movies can disappear right now yet I'm pretty sure it would feel like for most people, we did miss something.
brandonh83
Banned
Warm Machine
Member
Stuff like this always bothers me because they seem like terrible reaches by an audience that doesn't want to do any of the work themselves.
The Tartakovsky miniseries (the one you watched) is non-canon, but the CGI series is canon. The CGI series also had heavy involvement by Lucas so it's much more reflective of what he intended.
The basic distinction between the two is that the Tartakovsky series is heavy on exaggerated action while the CGI show focuses much more on characters. We still don't really get to see a good transformation for Anakin in the old miniseries - it just jumps from "he's a whiny padawan with a dark side!" to "he's a heroic knight with a dark side!" due to the time skip. The CGI series, due to its longer nature, spends a lot of time developing Anakin and watching his slow downfall, why he feels betrayed by the Jedi Council, how his relationship with Padme suffers, how the war makes him more and more violent, etc.
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